Author Topic: A change in Venezuela?  (Read 47971 times)

Offline Libertine

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2016, 11:56:51 am »
The Grauniad assured us that it would all be alright in 2013. Such astute political and economic commentary.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/07/venezuela-not-greece-latin-america-oil-poverty

Wow. Venezuela is lucky it didn't end up like Spain with its measly 3% GDP growth in 2015. And shops with food in them.

Surprised Seamus Milne wasn't in the byline.

Offline TravisBickle

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2016, 04:36:35 pm »
Seamus Milne really does get exposed as a dreadful fucking twat again and again, doesn't he? Despicable character and it reflects horribly on the Labour Party that such a c*nt is anywhere near the levers of power.

 Some of the stories coming out of Venezuela are absolutely horrifying. The accounts of people being burned to death in the street once they've been suspected of being thieves are particularly chilling. Follow Caracas Chronicles if you want a load of good analysis and commentary.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 04:39:55 pm by TravisBickle »
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2016, 09:14:57 pm »
Sky News report from inside a hospital in Caracas.  Pretty break...
http://news.sky.com/story/1702016/venezuelan-patients-dying-amid-lack-of-medicine

Offline J_Kopite

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #43 on: June 2, 2016, 11:52:30 am »
Sky News report from inside a hospital in Caracas.  Pretty break...
http://news.sky.com/story/1702016/venezuelan-patients-dying-amid-lack-of-medicine


Quote
Beefshank 7 days ago
This is the future for our NHS they way things are going and as more uncontrolled immigrants flood the country.

People are thick

Online SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #44 on: June 2, 2016, 03:31:27 pm »
People are thick

People are thick
When you're a thicko
Faces look ugly
When you're alone

Hahaha sorry not referring to you, just amusing myself with the idea of Jim Morrison being a UKIPper in some alternative history where he didn't go to Paris but to Essex and instead of dying in a bathtub full of smack he became mates with James Corden's dad and a paid up CAMRA man driving a white van round Chelmsford trying to remember if he really wrote Celebration of the Lizard or whether it was just a dream he had after too many Spitfires.
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Offline Lady_brandybuck

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #45 on: June 3, 2016, 04:00:11 am »
Sky News report from inside a hospital in Caracas.  Pretty break...
http://news.sky.com/story/1702016/venezuelan-patients-dying-amid-lack-of-medicine


Sadly true heartwrenching video. I am actually trying to send medication for my parents and niece who is sick back in Caracas.
What is going on over there is truly horrendous.

Here is a more simpler explanation of what is going on back in Venezuela. This is not about politics, it is about fucking thieves stealing the money and ruining a country to tiny bits.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/XhIFr6e8EBI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/XhIFr6e8EBI</a>
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Offline whiteboots

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #46 on: June 4, 2016, 08:47:10 am »
Here is a more simpler explanation of what is going on back in Venezuela. This is not about politics, it is about fucking thieves stealing the money and ruining a country to tiny bits.
It is simpler than that.

The crisis is about an administration which was being bankrolled by oil money which is now only a fraction of what it was, and its inability to adjust.

Offline BazC

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #47 on: June 4, 2016, 01:10:19 pm »
It is simpler than that.

The crisis is about an administration which was being bankrolled by oil money which is now only a fraction of what it was, and its inability to adjust.

When they had billions of USD coming in, it was spent on consumption and not saved. In fact, they actually *borrowed* billions and billions to further fuel expenditure. Instead of putting those USD away and investing for future generations and their population, they just spent it. There's a lot of corruption, and they've driven the country into the ground. I hope they can get rid of this stupid government and the new one has the ability to quickly fix this mess. I have a feeling it's not being pushed as hard as it can be buy the opposition (which itself is made up of many different political groups, whose main similarity is that they don't want Maduro and the Chavistas in charge) because they believe that this government will eventually drive itself out, as it defaults on the massive USD debt they have. That default is imminent, and it needs to happen. But they all need change now - it's taking too long, with people without food, medicine and the basic things we take for granted.

The ideals about equality, eradicating poverty and socialism were right on one level, but the way they did it, whilst no doubt creaming off the top, means that the only equality now is that everyone's suffering. It's horrible to watch and read about and I truly wish the people the best and hope they get their change soon.
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Offline BazC

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #48 on: June 6, 2016, 10:57:17 am »
“This place will become a bastion of invincibility and you are very lucky young man to be here. They will all come here and be beaten son”

Offline 24/7

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #49 on: June 6, 2016, 11:53:12 am »
https://devilexcrement.com/category/venezuela/
"By the end of my week there, the Government began organizing the so called CLAP’s, (Local Committees for Supply and Production) as the only possible source for regulated products, banning their sale at markets and supermarkets and therefore creating a system that favors those that support or claim to support the Maduro administration, a double standard and discriminating method, which is simply another form of fascism exhibited by the Maduro Government.(The picture at the top if when a CLAP tried to take over a food truck at a supermarket near the Miraflores Palace, by the end of it, people marched to the Palace in protest and the police had to use tear gas. )

And with increased lines and shortages, the conflicts seem to be increasing in intensity and size. What worries me the most, is that at some point, the military will lose control of the situation and there could be an escalation of the conflict beyond the capability of the Government.

And while all of this was happening, Maduro was acting like Nero in burning Rome. Two days he danced and sang on Nationwide TV, another he ranted against the economic war and by the end of the week, he left the country to visit Cuba, where he meekly asked Caribbean and Latin American countries to support his Government."

Venezuela - the great bastion of socialism - yeah right. So all those people still wishing to attack Maduro for being left wing can fuck off. He's a fucking fascist. Simple.

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #50 on: June 6, 2016, 02:01:40 pm »
Venezuela - the great bastion of socialism - yeah right. So all those people still wishing to attack Maduro for being left wing can fuck off. He's a fucking fascist. Simple.

Venezuela started down this road to fascism when Chavez elevated himself above the constitution.

It was shameful to see western leftists like Pilger, Tariq Ali and Corbyn genuflect before him. 
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline 24/7

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #51 on: June 6, 2016, 02:09:53 pm »
Venezuela started down this road to fascism when Chavez elevated himself above the constitution.

It was shameful to see western leftists like Pilger, Tariq Ali and Corbyn genuflect before him. 
Agree with that. Was in Libpool a few years back fresh from a trip to Caracas just as the current wave of Really Bad Problems started up (fuckinell it was bad enough then!) and in one of my fave pubs on Hope St was a planned talk about The Great Chavista Socialist Dream, complete with Youth League Maduro Acolyte Stooge - it was very, very tempting to go there and cause mayhem amongst the bespectacled hipster strokybeard wankstains who've likely never ventured out of their safe little bubbles..........I resisted.........but fucking hell it was tempting..........they think they're heroworshipping revolutionaries. They might as well call him Kommandant! :o

The so-called "third way" was never meant to include siphoning off all the cash to Chavez' bitches and then reincarnate oneself as a fucking bird twittering into Maduro's fucking ear about how every little thing is gonna be alright...........bollocks. The third way had some sense in logic - but as usual, power corrupts whereas absolute power corrupts absolutely - the people who lose out the most? The poorest, the sickest, the most vulnerable.

Chavez & Maduro c*nts.


Oh and the linked article below ends with a sad but all too familiar explanation of how the opposition is ripping itself apart, as one faction sticks to a one-trick-pony approach (trying to use the constitution as a route to ousting the incumbents who clearly don't give a fuck about the constitution is like throwing a hungry cat into mouse hole to release a trapped mouse!) whilst the other merely jockeys for position to take over when it all falls apart (which is bit like waiting for a hammer to smash a walnut and believing you can put it back together again later). Insanity!
« Last Edit: June 6, 2016, 02:16:24 pm by 24/7 »

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #52 on: June 6, 2016, 02:13:42 pm »
Agree with that. Was in Libpool a few years back fresh from a trip to Caracas just as the current wave of Really Bad Problems started up (fuckinell it was bad enough then!) and in one of my fave pubs on Hope St was a planned talk about The Great Chavista Socialist Dream, complete with Youth League Maduro Acolyte Stooge - it was very, very tempting to go there and cause mayhem amongst the bespectacled hipster strokybeard wankstains who've likely never ventured out of their safe little bubbles..........I resisted.........but fucking hell it was tempting..........

You'd have been wasting your time mate. You can't argue with a cult.
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Offline 24/7

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #53 on: June 6, 2016, 02:17:14 pm »
You'd have been wasting your time mate. You can't argue with a cult.
Precisely why I didn't bother - and the person I would have gone with might well have ended up in more than just a short case of fisticuffs - it could have had serious repercussions back home :(

Offline whiteboots

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #54 on: June 7, 2016, 09:41:53 am »
The so-called "third way" was never meant to include siphoning off all the cash to Chavez' bitches and then reincarnate oneself as a fucking bird twittering into Maduro's fucking ear about how every little thing is gonna be alright...........bollocks. The third way had some sense in logic - but as usual, power corrupts whereas absolute power corrupts absolutely - the people who lose out the most? The poorest, the sickest, the most vulnerable.
In one.

The shame is that a leftist agenda will now be crushed by an inevitably reactionary response and discredited. But governments, when they have the cash, love to spend.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #55 on: June 7, 2016, 11:47:15 am »
In one.

The shame is that a leftist agenda will now be crushed by an inevitably reactionary response and discredited. But governments, when they have the cash, love to spend.

It's too easy to say that the "leftist agenda" was working until greed/reaction/corruption/loss of nerve/the crash in oil prices etc got in the way. That's a cop out which operates to allow leftists to retain the purity of their vision and offload the bulk of the blame on to external factors. But Chavez's 'agenda' was deeply flawed from the start.
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Offline Lady_brandybuck

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #56 on: June 8, 2016, 02:38:10 am »
In one.

The shame is that a leftist agenda will now be crushed by an inevitably reactionary response and discredited. But governments, when they have the cash, love to spend.

The way politics are done in South America and specially in this case, Venezuela, is not what you usually understand as left or right policies. It does have some of those ideas as a "core", but is basically populism. What helped Chavez become what he became was the oil bonanza, He rose to power during a very though time for Venezuela's economy, the recesion was stron in the late 90's and we were requesting help from the monetary fund as it was quite fucked up. Chavez took all that disenchantment from the masses and spoke what they wanted to hear, he gained power and proposed some decent ideas, then the oil boom came and a second bonanza for the country started. Too much money and too much power was given to Chavez, not because he was doing it right, already back in 2001 much of the country was at unrest with many of the policies he was making law with every single power behind him (Justice and parliament). As it's been mentioned in this thread, too much power corrupts and abolute power absolutely corrupts. The Opposition in Venezuela was and still is more worried about who is going to do what "when they come out of power" than actually proposing a plan and go all the way through it, and the regular Venezuelan on the street thinks that inminently everything will go to shit because the situation is unsustainable (but it's been so for years) and hope that the army rises up and take the government from power, which would be the worst case scenario.

Fast forward 17 years (I cannot believe that a bit more than half my life has been spent under these bunch of fuckwits) and the oil boom is well over and I don't think there will be anything like that again in the future, they never saved any money (unless you consider the bank account of those in power and their families, like chavez daughter with 2 billion dollars) or invested it in anything productive (many projects were supposed to be taken, but nothing of it exists to this day and the money "misteriously" disappeared), many companies and factories were taken from their owners to be handled by the government and now something like 5% of them are still productive, they gave their money to many politicians and countries all over the continent to buy their support, they gave a bag of food and some money to the poorest here to buy votes on every campaign, they basically created a monster and now there is rampant insecurity in the streets, no medicines and no food. The government doesn't want to discuss our problems or find solutions, the parliament tries to do something but is blocked by the government, the situation is getting out of control and the ones who suffer the most are the common Venezuelans. What has been the next step to solve the situation? food is going to be controlled by pro government communal organizations who will distribute it (the food with controlled prices) and it won't be sold in supermarkets anymore, and! with a rationing card per house. Just another opportunity for corruption. That's why there are riots reported every day in different cities and people just stealing what they can because they are simply hungry.

Now, I do believe in a society when people work for a common good, I admire countries who have developed social services of quality for their inhabitants, people paying their fair share of taxes to help everyone and have a society that actually works and moves a country forward, I believe in that and I would love to see it in my country and not people benefiting themselves at the expense of the mayority.

Venezuela is not socialism, it never was.
« Last Edit: June 8, 2016, 10:25:41 pm by Lady_brandybuck »
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Offline 24/7

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #57 on: June 8, 2016, 08:25:47 am »
A belter of a post there, Kati, that sheds more light on the incredibly tough situation facing millions today. It's gotten so bad there from a global economic perspective that even Lufthansa are ceasing operations! One of the last intercontinental carriers. Why? Because the government has made it impossible to free up revenues gained in the territory and restricted cash exchanges. In a country with the world's largest oil reserves. And billions locked in some individuals' off shore bank accounts.

So when people talk about socialism, as you rightly point out it never was about that there. It's rapidly turning into feudalism and the clock is turning back approximately 400 years.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2016, 03:33:49 pm »
Things go from bad to worse in Venezuela.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-36761978

'Desperate' Venezuelans stream into Colombia to buy food

Colombian officials say 35,000 Venezuelans have crossed the border into their country over 12 hours to shop for basic supplies.
Venezuela is suffering a severe economic crisis which has caused mass food shortages.
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2016, 10:44:11 pm »
Human Rights Watch report on the detention and torture of dissidents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcOMsROxTlI&feature=youtu.be
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Offline Jon2lfc

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #60 on: July 28, 2016, 03:55:40 pm »
Reading some of the posts above makes for a saddening read.

To anyone who is from Venezuela or who currently lives there...is it "safe" to visit for a British tourist?
We planned on visiting a couple of years back but put it on hold after reading media reports.

One of my work colleagues at the time tried to convince me to still go...guess what his "convincing" argument was?
"It's the place to go to see the most beautiful women in the world!!" he said.
 ::)
Yeah, as if that's gonna tip the argument in his favour.

I didn't bother telling him that AFAIK most of this "beauty" he sees in the beauty pageants is cosmetically enhanced. I read somewhere that the cosmetic surgery industry in places like Venezuela and Colombia is big business and lots of girls have had work done. It's normal apparently.

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #61 on: July 28, 2016, 04:37:28 pm »
Reading some of the posts above makes for a saddening read.

To anyone who is from Venezuela or who currently lives there...is it "safe" to visit for a British tourist?
We planned on visiting a couple of years back but put it on hold after reading media reports.

One of my work colleagues at the time tried to convince me to still go...guess what his "convincing" argument was?
"It's the place to go to see the most beautiful women in the world!!" he said.
 ::)
Yeah, as if that's gonna tip the argument in his favour.

I didn't bother telling him that AFAIK most of this "beauty" he sees in the beauty pageants is cosmetically enhanced. I read somewhere that the cosmetic surgery industry in places like Venezuela and Colombia is big business and lots of girls have had work done. It's normal apparently.

As an obsessive traveler who's dream is South America the answer all over seems to be a firm no!! Which is a shame as I want to fly to Colombia and see Venez after but sounds like a massive no go right now and in the foreseeable.

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #62 on: July 28, 2016, 05:14:17 pm »

I didn't bother telling him that AFAIK most of this "beauty" he sees in the beauty pageants is cosmetically enhanced. I read somewhere that the cosmetic surgery industry in places like Venezuela and Colombia is big business and lots of girls have had work done. It's normal apparently.

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #63 on: July 28, 2016, 05:37:38 pm »
To anyone who is from Venezuela or who currently lives there...is it "safe" to visit for a British tourist?
We planned on visiting a couple of years back but put it on hold after reading media reports.
Having lived in a place which was under a state of emergency for years and had suicide bombers going off here and there, what I would say is that living there, you get used to it.

Your first port of call: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/venezuela

Offline JongWK

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #64 on: August 9, 2016, 09:21:23 pm »
So a top member of the government (Diosdado Cabello, for those keeping track) has explained that, if the referendum is allowed to proceed, it will of course take place sometime after the deadline for triggering new elections. The Vicepresident would take over, and his first act would be to appoint Maduro as his new VP... at which point he would happily step down and let Maduro recover "his" presidency.

This will not end well. :butt
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #65 on: October 11, 2016, 11:01:25 pm »
I'd love to know what Seumas Milne thinks about the Chavez revolution now, but the Guardian has become a lot more clear-eyed since he left.

This is a tragic story:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/11/venezuela-on-the-brink-a-journey-through-a-country-in-crisis
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2017, 12:20:16 am »
Kicking off again in Venezuela at the moment with a number of protestors killed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-40769737

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2017, 12:30:22 am »
Some saying 9% turnout for this sham, fair play to those, especially the government workers

Offline Lady_brandybuck

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2017, 11:01:00 pm »
Some saying 9% turnout for this sham, fair play to those, especially the government workers
fair play? really?


This is unbearable.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #69 on: July 31, 2017, 11:39:45 pm »
fair play? really?


This is unbearable.
i mean the ones who didn't vote if that's true, not the ones that did

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #70 on: August 1, 2017, 08:07:24 am »
fair play? really?


This is unbearable.

How are you doing? This must be awful for you.
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Offline Haemoglobin

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #71 on: August 1, 2017, 08:56:42 am »
fair play? really?


This is unbearable.
My thoughts are with you Lady B, you've been missed lately here. Hope you and yours are alright
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #72 on: August 1, 2017, 09:52:28 am »
Glad to hear from you Lady B. Hope you're safe.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #73 on: August 1, 2017, 10:17:23 am »
Quote
Venezuela's election of a controversial new assembly has been disrupted by violence, with widespread protests and at least 10 deaths reported.

Those killed include an opposition youth leader, a pro-government candidate and a soldier.

The government wants a new constituent assembly with powers to rewrite the constitution and override congress.

The opposition says it is a power grab by President Nicolás Maduro and is boycotting the vote.

President Maduro says it is the only way to restore peace after months of protests and political stalemate between the government and the opposition controlled National Assembly.

Fucking hell, hope Donald Trump doesn't hear about this.  Might give him ideas.  :o

Sending hugs Lady B, hope you are ok.
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Offline Libertine

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #74 on: August 1, 2017, 10:28:34 am »
@AP
BREAKING: Wife of Leopoldo Lopez says the Venezuelan opposition leader has been taken from his home by authorities.


Rapidly descending into dictatorship. Wonder how widely this will be condemned?

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #75 on: August 1, 2017, 01:09:28 pm »
@AP
BREAKING: Wife of Leopoldo Lopez says the Venezuelan opposition leader has been taken from his home by authorities.


Rapidly descending into dictatorship. Wonder how widely this will be condemned?

Yes, the country has been heading down the Cuban road for a long time now. Soon it will be there.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #76 on: August 1, 2017, 01:19:53 pm »
I think Lady B is (hopefully safely) in Mexico at the moment but probably still has family in Caracas.

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #77 on: August 1, 2017, 01:31:34 pm »
Yes, the country has been heading down the Cuban road for a long time now. Soon it will be there.
Dictatorships fine as long as they say they're socialist..
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Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #78 on: August 1, 2017, 08:57:03 pm »
I think Lady B is (hopefully safely) in Mexico at the moment but probably still has family in Caracas.
hope her family are all safe there

Dictatorships fine as long as they say they're socialist..
indeed, the fact that Trinidad, curaçao and Colombia are taking in tens of thousands of refugees is just mere details

Offline It's Jimmy Corkhill

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #79 on: August 1, 2017, 09:34:38 pm »
Can hear the Yanks waffling on about "regime change" already. A US-educated leader in Venezuela would be just what they want.
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