Author Topic: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience  (Read 213989 times)

Online jillcwhomever

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #800 on: September 18, 2017, 02:01:18 pm »
Another good piece of news Clyne has had his fourth run out. He is only at the very start of his come back, but at least he has started to run.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #801 on: September 20, 2017, 06:41:42 am »
Seems like we miss him more than we thought.
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Offline Frank Becton

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #802 on: September 20, 2017, 07:18:16 am »
Seems like we miss him more than we thought.

Indeed, the problem is we have several options in his absence at right back but none are really ideal.
I do think Trent will be a top player, but both he and Gomez have shown weaknesses in the position and as much as I like Flanagan's attitude and the fact he gets stuck in, last night shows he just isn't good enough, probably partly down to injuries.
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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #803 on: September 20, 2017, 07:48:43 am »
Seems like we miss him more than we thought.

Some people always knew he was our most valuable defender. Was ridiculous that he ever had to field questions about his place in the team.

Hope those that did are enjoying the various shades of shite served up by TAA and Gomez in recent weeks.

(I like both of them, but it doesn’t make them better RB’s than Clyne)

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #804 on: September 20, 2017, 08:01:28 am »
Some people always knew he was our most valuable defender. Was ridiculous that he ever had to field questions about his place in the team.

Hope those that did are enjoying the various shades of shite served up by TAA and Gomez in recent weeks.

(I like both of them, but it doesn’t make them better RB’s than Clyne)

They wont. He will come back, not attack like Cafu and Alves and people will be saying he isnt good going forward and that we need some other supposed right back who they think is a Dani Alves but actually isn't.

People have very short memories and they will forget how important he is in shutting down threats on that side with the opposition.

He is our most consistent defender. If anything we need more players like him.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 08:03:08 am by killer_heels »

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #805 on: September 20, 2017, 08:04:57 am »
Some people always knew he was our most valuable defender. Was ridiculous that he ever had to field questions about his place in the team.

Hope those that did are enjoying the various shades of shite served up by TAA and Gomez in recent weeks.

(I like both of them, but it doesn’t make them better RB’s than Clyne)
We've conceded 16-goals in 9-games, I'd happily have Milner and Clyne back as our full-backs. 
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Offline rich87

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #806 on: September 20, 2017, 08:15:01 am »
The issue is, we shouldn't have to rely on a 19 year old, or a young gomes who is destined for CB rather than RB. We shouldn't have to rely on Klavan who isn't good enough at CB. These should all be none issues.

For a club the size of Liverpool football club - we shouldn't need to use stop gaps LBs (Milner last season)

What we are seeing at this club in defense isn't good enough. It isn't fair on the youngsters, it isn't fair on the team, it isn't fair on the individuals who are good enough to play for any team in the world (Coutinho, Mane, Salah, Firminho)

We looked at the defense this season - and we said - we can't do better than this?

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #807 on: September 20, 2017, 08:25:22 am »
Some people always knew he was our most valuable defender. Was ridiculous that he ever had to field questions about his place in the team.

Hope those that did are enjoying the various shades of shite served up by TAA and Gomez in recent weeks.

(I like both of them, but it doesn’t make them better RB’s than Clyne)

He's one of those players that you understand his huge importance when he's missing.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #808 on: September 20, 2017, 08:32:09 am »
He's one of those players that you understand his huge importance when he's missing.

But which people will forget once he starts playing again.

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #809 on: September 20, 2017, 09:01:45 am »
But which people will forget once he starts playing again.

Unfortunately that is true.
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Offline jepovic

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #810 on: September 20, 2017, 10:42:52 am »
Indeed, the problem is we have several options in his absence at right back but none are really ideal.
I do think Trent will be a top player, but both he and Gomez have shown weaknesses in the position and as much as I like Flanagan's attitude and the fact he gets stuck in, last night shows he just isn't good enough, probably partly down to injuries.
It also shows that full back is a really difficult role in modern football. You're supposed to be great in both attack and defense, and you should have incredible stamina. But good full backs rarely get any credit.

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #811 on: September 20, 2017, 06:25:43 pm »
Some people always knew he was our most valuable defender. Was ridiculous that he ever had to field questions about his place in the team.

Hope those that did are enjoying the various shades of shite served up by TAA and Gomez in recent weeks.

(I like both of them, but it doesn’t make them better RB’s than Clyne)

While I agree in general and I am a huge Clyne fan - I would think the Burnley game is the perfect game to play TAA and rest Clyne. TAA is unlikely to have little to no defending to do and it's more a question of what he can do with the ball to destabilise the Burnley block, where he is superior to Clyne.

Clyne is probably the weakest full back in the air in the Premier League, so I doubt the outcome of the Burnley goal would be any different with Clyne instead of TAA. TAA is actually pretty decent in the air and, I suspect, once he grows into his frame, will be one of our better players in the air (although that is mostly because everyone else are struggling to break the 5ft mark)
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Offline Charles Foster Kane

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #812 on: September 20, 2017, 07:17:57 pm »
Some people always knew he was our most valuable defender. Was ridiculous that he ever had to field questions about his place in the team.

Hope those that did are enjoying the various shades of shite served up by TAA and Gomez in recent weeks.

(I like both of them, but it doesn’t make them better RB’s than Clyne)
Maybe true. He never brought much productivity going forward though which we are really crying out for against busparking teams.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #813 on: September 20, 2017, 08:18:07 pm »
Think he is getting better by the week, which is always the way of it when a player gets injured.

Think he is a decent player. I'd personally have preferred us to go out and sign someone like Aurier or Ricardo Pereira in the summer but as we didn't I hope Clyne gets back soon as he is our best defender for the RB slot.

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #814 on: September 20, 2017, 08:40:20 pm »
Think he is getting better by the week, which is always the way of it when a player gets injured.

Think he is a decent player. I'd personally have preferred us to go out and sign someone like Aurier or Ricardo Pereira in the summer but as we didn't I hope Clyne gets back soon as he is our best defender for the RB slot.

Why would we sign a nutcase like Aurier? Also dont know who that other player is but I think there has been olenty of underrating of Clyne.

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #815 on: September 20, 2017, 10:56:57 pm »
Why would we sign a nutcase like Aurier? Also dont know who that other player is but I think there has been olenty of underrating of Clyne.
He's a big deal in FM17 based on what I have read.

Noticed him a few times when watching Nice last season. Reminds me of Marlo Stansfield.


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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #816 on: September 21, 2017, 12:32:57 am »
Some people always knew he was our most valuable defender. Was ridiculous that he ever had to field questions about his place in the team.

Hope those that did are enjoying the various shades of shite served up by TAA and Gomez in recent weeks.

(I like both of them, but it doesn’t make them better RB’s than Clyne)

Most valuable??.. Nah, just part of last years shite defence who's now being over rated because of a few poor results. At fault for more goals than Milner last year in my opinion and every bit as poor going forward. Although both are probably our best two full backs from a defensive view point god help us.

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #817 on: September 21, 2017, 08:34:24 am »
Most valuable??.. Nah, just part of last years shite defence who's now being over rated because of a few poor results. At fault for more goals than Milner last year in my opinion and every bit as poor going forward. Although both are probably our best two full backs from a defensive view point god help us.

It's hard to shine and steal the show,  as a fullback. I remember Evra never did anything spectacular for the mancs,  but he was very valuable for red nose. Clyne is similar, he's intelligent player, who does his job, and i don't remember conceding 5 goals in one game, when Clyne and Milner were our fullbacks.
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Offline CallumLFC

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #818 on: September 21, 2017, 12:34:04 pm »
Think he is getting better by the week, which is always the way of it when a player gets injured.

Think he is a decent player. I'd personally have preferred us to go out and sign someone like Aurier or Ricardo Pereira in the summer but as we didn't I hope Clyne gets back soon as he is our best defender for the RB slot.

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #819 on: September 21, 2017, 01:03:10 pm »
It's hard to shine and steal the show,  as a fullback. I remember Evra never did anything spectacular for the mancs,  but he was very valuable for red nose. Clyne is similar, he's intelligent player, who does his job, and i don't remember conceding 5 goals in one game, when Clyne and Milner were our fullbacks.

You were making a good point if you had just stopped before you got to this... which is absolutely laughable :D

We never conceded 5 goals with Spearing as #6
We never conceded 5 with Bogdan in goal
We never conceded 5 goals with Hodgson in charge

It's taking 1 game in isolation with pretty unique circumstances (best team in the league, early red card), then using it to push an agenda.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #820 on: September 21, 2017, 01:55:43 pm »
 
You were making a good point if you had just stopped before you got to this... which is absolutely laughable :D

We never conceded 5 goals with Spearing as #6
We never conceded 5 with Bogdan in goal
We never conceded 5 goals with Hodgson in charge

It's taking 1 game in isolation with pretty unique circumstances (best team in the league, early red card), then using it to push an agenda.

Don't you think that our defence was better last season with Clyne and Milner? It wasn't perfect,but i believe it was better than this season.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #821 on: September 21, 2017, 03:07:05 pm »

Don't you think that our defence was better last season with Clyne and Milner? It wasn't perfect,but i believe it was better than this season.
Do you believe our defensive problems this season are just down to the full backs?

For example - under Klopp we have only ever had 1 shot resulting from a through ball between Oct 2015-May 2017. How many have we already had this season? That has nothing to do with full backs. That is a lack of pressure on the ball in front of the defence.

People need to stop trying to drill down our problems to 1 player or a certain position. There is a cascade effect occurring whereby problem in front of the defence make the defence look like a mess as they have more space to deal with, untracked runners to deal with, etc.

And none of that changes the fact how you are trying to suggest that we conceded 5 goals at City because of our full backs is just ridiculous.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #822 on: September 21, 2017, 03:44:01 pm »
Do you believe our defensive problems this season are just down to the full backs?

For example - under Klopp we have only ever had 1 shot resulting from a through ball between Oct 2015-May 2017. How many have we already had this season? That has nothing to do with full backs. That is a lack of pressure on the ball in front of the defence.

People need to stop trying to drill down our problems to 1 player or a certain position. There is a cascade effect occurring whereby problem in front of the defence make the defence look like a mess as they have more space to deal with, untracked runners to deal with, etc.

And none of that changes the fact how you are trying to suggest that we conceded 5 goals at City because of our full backs is just ridiculous.

there aren't 100 players on the pitch,mate. One player can have a huge impact. Take Valencia out of Manutd for example, and they would be much weaker. I'm not saying our problem is only down to fullbacks, but surely is one of them. My response was to someone who said that our defence is just as bad as last season.
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Offline Big Dirk

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #823 on: September 21, 2017, 03:53:43 pm »
Clyne returning will be a huge boost.....he may be no Cafu but is a huge upgrade on TAA and Gomez just a pity we didn't have an upgrade to return for options at CB.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #824 on: September 21, 2017, 04:32:06 pm »
there aren't 100 players on the pitch,mate. One player can have a huge impact. Take Valencia out of Manutd for example, and they would be much weaker. I'm not saying our problem is only down to fullbacks, but surely is one of them. My response was to someone who said that our defence is just as bad as last season.
yes, one player can have a huge impact. The problem is when you look at the game with a problem in mind and try to shape the information to that problem.

Again, read my point about throughballs and the problems midfield causes defence. You cannot explain those problems with an answer involving full backs. Which again is why I am saying looking for a simple solution of 1 player to a problem is stupid.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #825 on: September 21, 2017, 04:53:06 pm »
yes, one player can have a huge impact. The problem is when you look at the game with a problem in mind and try to shape the information to that problem.

Again, read my point about throughballs and the problems midfield causes defence. You cannot explain those problems with an answer involving full backs. Which again is why I am saying looking for a simple solution of 1 player to a problem is stupid.

You are putting yourself too much under pressure for no reason with this "football expert" role that you gave to yourself  :D. Relax mate, calling my opinion stupid and ridiculous, won't streghthen your opinion. It's not rocket science that Clyne would improve our defence. That's all what i'm saying, and i'm sure you agree with that. Although the midfield is the major problem for our weak defence, someone like VVD would also improve our defence, even with this weak midfield that we have defensively.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #826 on: September 21, 2017, 05:17:39 pm »
1) You are putting yourself too much under pressure for no reason with this "football expert" role that you gave to yourself  :D. Relax mate, calling my opinion stupid and ridiculous, won't streghthen your opinion. 2) It's not rocket science that Clyne would improve our defence. That's all what i'm saying, and i'm sure you agree with that. Although the midfield is the major problem for our weak defence, someone like VVD would also improve our defence, even with this weak midfield that we have defensively.
1) Ad hominem

2) Clyne at RB would be like putting a bandage on a broken leg to stop the bleeding. When sides are able to play or dribble through midfield unchecked, when runners are allowed to run into our box untracked, when players are not being challenged for the ball when they should be, when the midfield is neither compressing spaces horizontally, vertically between them or behind them - it doesn't matter who is in defence. Sure, some different players will do a better job. But they would still be fighting a forest fire with a bucket of water. You just gave them a bigger bucket.

Clyne is a good player. But he wouldn't win that header against Burnley. He is our (and the entire leagues) worst player in the air. And so him being on the pitch against Burnley does nothing. He doesn't help Can run instead of walk when Arfield is running off him. He doesn't help Matip be more aggressive in attacking the ball in the box. He doesn't help Klavan make better decisions and not get dragged to the ball. Likewise against City. How does he help Can get goalside of De Bruyne. Stay compact with the rest of midfield. Prevent the through ball to Aguero?

VVD is a good player. But give him 40 yards behind and 25 yards ahead of him to defend with multiple players running in his zone and what can he do? He only has bad options. He can do nothing (too passive) he can track one player thus leaving another open. He can push up, but will get picked up with no pressure on the ball. He can drop off but then the attacking side has even more midfield as the gap between midfield and attack widens.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #827 on: September 21, 2017, 05:37:51 pm »
Avid viewer of Porto are you?

Maybe 5 games a season. Although that wouldn't mean shit if I was watching them every week seeing as he was at Nice for the last 2 seasons. Saw him a few times last season. Impressed. Regular Ligue 1 watchers say he's brilliant.

But I'm sure he is no Clyne because all our players are amazing which is why we win trophies every year.

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #828 on: September 21, 2017, 05:43:37 pm »
Maybe 5 games a season. Although that wouldn't mean shit if I was watching them every week seeing as he was at Nice for the last 2 seasons. Saw him a few times last season. Impressed. Regular Ligue 1 watchers say he's brilliant.

But I'm sure he is no Clyne because all our players are amazing which is why we win trophies every year.
He's pretty good. But it's hard to tell how that translates to the Premier League. Suspect attacking wise, he would be better than what we have, think he would struggle defensively though. He is likely a little ahead of TAA now but long term I think TAA will be the far better of the two.

You think we don't win trophies because of Clyne? If no, why say that then? You could have answered questions about the player and just avoided talking to someone like a dick at the end. They'd be more like to respect your opinion then on a player you know and they don't. Instead whatever information you wanted to share about the player is lost.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #829 on: September 21, 2017, 05:53:35 pm »
He's pretty good. But it's hard to tell how that translates to the Premier League. Suspect attacking wise, he would be better than what we have, think he would struggle defensively though. He is likely a little ahead of TAA now but long term I think TAA will be the far better of the two.

You think we don't win trophies because of Clyne? If no, why say that then? You could have answered questions about the player and just avoided talking to someone like a dick at the end. They'd be more like to respect your opinion then on a player you know and they don't. Instead whatever information you wanted to share about the player is lost.
I've no interest in getting respect from someone who responded to me out the blue with an arsey, sarcastic comment.

Pereira is also not 'a little ahead' of Trent. That is rather deluded to suggest. And again, just like with our conversation on Dendoncker, you claim that a player will somehow struggle in the Premier League based on nothing really. You aren't an expert on players even though you like to pretend to be no matter how little you have seen of them. When I judge a player I havent seen much of myself, I try read as much as I can from people who have actually seen him. Most of those people suggest he is a great player and that there isn't much between him and Semedo who just went to Barca for 40m and has started very impressively. There is nothing to suggest really that TAA will be the 'FAR' better of the two. If anything, I'd be shocked if Trent ends up as a RB long term because he is so far off it defensively. Or to quote Jurgen, he 'defends like a boy not a man'

Trent to me looks like a midfielder who's using fullback as a way to get in the team like to different ends, Gerrard and Carra did.


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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #830 on: September 21, 2017, 06:28:04 pm »
I've no interest in getting respect from someone who responded to me out the blue with an arsey, sarcastic comment.

Pereira is also not 'a little ahead' of Trent. That is rather deluded to suggest. And again, just like with our conversation on Dendoncker, you claim that a player will somehow struggle in the Premier League based on nothing really. You aren't an expert on players even though you like to pretend to be no matter how little you have seen of them. When I judge a player I havent seen much of myself, I try read as much as I can from people who have actually seen him. Most of those people suggest he is a great player and that there isn't much between him and Semedo who just went to Barca for 40m and has started very impressively. There is nothing to suggest really that TAA will be the 'FAR' better of the two. If anything, I'd be shocked if Trent ends up as a RB long term because he is so far off it defensively. Or to quote Jurgen, he 'defends like a boy not a man'

Trent to me looks like a midfielder who's using fullback as a way to get in the team like to different ends, Gerrard and Carra did.

It's just the fact that a lot of players struggle to adapt to the Premier League. Especially those at perceived smaller clubs who aren't playing European football. The intensity is a lot higher and there is more games and a colder climate. It all means players bodies needs to adapt to it. The younger you are, the more likely that is to happen, if at all. Some simply don't adapt. Which is why a lot of players will come in at a lower level than ourselves and then the bigger clubs hoover up those who show they can adapt. It's why the likes of Southampton become farm clubs, unfortunately for them.

I have said the same words of caution on Keita. The difference being he plays this system already at both Salzburg and Leipzig. There is still some concern over the fact though he plays once a week in his career and tires late in games due to his style of play.

Agree with TAA btw, he may very well end up as a #6 or #8 for us.

As for opinions of people who have seen players - it's still just an untrained eye looking at a player and making a guess. Fans over exaggerating their own players. It doesn't really mean anything. It just means a lot of people - whose skills as scouts are unquantifiable - believe something to be true. Confirmation bias means that we tend to search out opinions that agree with our own and dismiss those who don't so it becomes hard to put and quantifiable value on unsourced people saying he is good. From a data point of view, it therefore means little to nothing.

When you scout players, you look for weaknesses, not strengths. And how those weaknesses are tested. And draw similarities to others to see how convertible what they are doing in say France is to England. How do full backs - in general - fare when they make that move. And what weaknesses showed up in them when they made that move that prevented them succeeding, and if there were any signs of that bfore the move. Stuff like that.

Players tend to fail because of their weaknesses, not succeed because of their strengths basically.
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Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #831 on: October 25, 2017, 10:22:15 am »
Any news with how his recovery is going?

Could really do with his experience back there, especially if we're going to see Gomez get his chance in the middle.

Offline johnj147

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #832 on: October 25, 2017, 10:47:03 am »
Any news with how his recovery is going?

Could really do with his experience back there, especially if we're going to see Gomez get his chance in the middle.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #833 on: October 25, 2017, 11:34:13 am »
He's one of those players that you understand his huge importance when he's missing.

Everybody said the same of Hendo last season but he is getting roasted on here in other threads. Absence makes the heart grow fonder but a poor performance will quickly dissipate that affection - well, for the whoppers at least.

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #834 on: October 25, 2017, 11:35:38 am »
Everybody said the same of Hendo last season but he is getting roasted on here in other threads. Absence makes the heart grow fonder but a poor performance will quickly dissipate that affection - well, for the whoppers at least.

He can defend though. Everbody acknowledges that but fans didnt like the fact that he wasnr a brilliant attacker.

Maybe fans will realise that a defender being able to defend is actually a good thing.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 11:38:55 am by a clueless whopper »

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #835 on: October 25, 2017, 01:24:32 pm »
He can defend though. Everbody acknowledges that but fans didnt like the fact that he wasnr a brilliant attacker.

Maybe fans will realise that a defender being able to defend is actually a good thing.

Absolutely, I don't dispute that at all. People seem to have got drunk on attacking fullbacks over the past couple of years and that has worked against Clyne. For me , very solid, dependable defender. Not magic going forward but rarely out of position and not rash when having to dif in around our box. Rarely offers up a heart in mouth moment a la the Dejan and Simon double act.

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #836 on: October 25, 2017, 01:41:06 pm »
Due back date?
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Offline Keith Lard

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #837 on: October 25, 2017, 01:48:15 pm »
Like every one of our injured players, when we are on a bad run he will be greeted back into the team like a messiah.

But being serious, his injury was well timed in some ways. It allowed us to give Trent and Gomez essential game time.

Now Clyney goes back in the team and we have 2 lads that we can confidently say are ready for the first team.
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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #838 on: October 25, 2017, 03:11:43 pm »

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Re: The Nathaniel Clyne Experience
« Reply #839 on: October 25, 2017, 03:13:11 pm »
Like every one of our injured players, when we are on a bad run he will be greeted back into the team like a messiah.

But being serious, his injury was well timed in some ways. It allowed us to give Trent and Gomez essential game time.

Now Clyney goes back in the team and we have 2 lads that we can confidently say are ready for the first team.

I don't disagree - but it also makes every mistake greater. Clyne isn't appreciated enough - really a quality player and defender. I don't care about the attack anymore - I just want a player that can defend and he is that.