Topic: The West, Israel and Islam - Your Opinion (*)

[Yorkykopite]

Which was the point, that sometimes there are no differences in deaths due to military operations and cold blooded murder, despite the different rhetoric used to describe them.

Clearly that's true where it can be proved that air forces (say) have deliberately targeted civilians or launched a campaign of terror from the air on defenceless populations. The Assad regime in Syria is a perfect example of this. It goes out of its way to harm civilians and terrorise them. To me there's no moral difference between what the Assad regime is doing on a daily basis and what individual terrorists do when they wade into a place of worship with guns and axes. Both are obviously scum.

[outlaw_nas]

Did Baruch Goldstein not massacre 29 people in a mosque?

Did people not call him a true Israeli hero? Did not an estimated 10,000 people visit his grave in pilgrimage?

I don't see how I've been ignorant by quoting facts? You're happy to point score and paint a derogatory picture of how Palestinians react to abhorrent violence, glorifying it and it's perpetrators. I'm merely doing the same, but you don't appear to like that?

After that attack didn't the state of Israel take over half the mosque?

The grave of prophet Yusuf is on the state of Israel side

[Mutton Geoff]

If i've said it once i have said it a thousand times: Some people on this thread know less than nothing about Israel/Palestine. It still amazes me how ignorant you can be and yet have such a strong opinion.

Rather be ignorant than a bigot lad ! think on as you fall of that high horse you are sitting on !

[RedRabbit]

The only way to solve this is to kill more people, I think

As sad as it may be, the only way this problem can be "solved" is by killing all of them. Palestinians that is.

The One State solution won't fly and the Two State solution won't ever be a Two 'State' solution. You'd hope but I really can't see how it'd work.

[Corkboy]

As sad as it may be, the only way this problem can be "solved" is by killing all of them. Palestinians that is.

The One State solution won't fly and the Two State solution won't ever be a Two 'State' solution. You'd hope but I really can't see how it'd work.

There is another way. If we could get everyone in the Middle East to somehow forget everything they had been taught about history and religion, I reckon things would go swimmingly from there on out. We need these boys.

[The Fletcher Memorial]

As sad as it may be, the only way this problem can be "solved" is by killing all of them. Palestinians that is.

That's the plan.

[CHOPPER]

I'm just not seeing what is gained by going back to the perpetrators place of living and blowing that home or flat up, putting the remaining families members out on the street. Guilt by association effectively.

Violence beget violence, and the world of violence continues to spin.

[nyctex]

As sad as it may be, the only way this problem can be "solved" is by killing all of them. Palestinians that is.

That's the plan.

who's plan?  The Israelis are pretty incompetent if that's the plan for Israel. 

The Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians and Lebanese seem much more competent and efficient at killing Palestinians   

[Mutton Geoff]

I'm just not seeing what is gained by going back to the perpetrators place of living and blowing that home or flat up, putting the remaining families members out on the street. Guilt by association effectively.

Violence beget violence, and the world of violence continues to spin.

Exactly right

[Corkboy]

After 13 years, 2 wars and trillions in military spending, terrorist attacks are rising sharply

By Christopher Ingraham November 18

Last year saw the highest number of terrorist incidents since 2000, according to the latest Global Terrorism Index released by the Institute for Economics and Peace. Worldwide, the number of terrorist incidents increased from less than 1,500 in 2000 to nearly 10,000 in 2013. Sixty percent of attacks last year occurred in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria and Syria.



The report suggests that U.S. foreign policy has played a big role in making the problem worse: "The rise in terrorist activity coincided with the US invasion of Iraq," it concludes. "This created large power vacuums in the country allowing different factions to surface and become violent." Indeed, among the five countries accounting for the bulk of attacks, the U.S. has prosecuted lengthy ground wars in two (Iraq and Afghanistan), a drone campaign in one (Pakistan), and airstrikes in a fourth (Syria).

The report defines terrorism as  “the threatened or actual use of illegal force and violence by a non-state actor to attain a political, economic, religious, or social goal through fear, coercion, or intimidation.”

The U.S. will invest somewhere between $4 and 6 trillion on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, with untold additional resources spent on anti-terrorism efforts elsewhere, according to the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. While we haven't suffered any major terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11, the Global Terrorism Index numbers cast considerable doubt on whether that money's been well-spent. And they give some credence to the notion that our ham-handed foreign policy is actually a destabilizing factor in world affairs.

In other news, the Obama administration recently approved doubling the number of troops we currently have on the ground in Iraq.

source

[Yorkykopite]

The graph seems to suggest that the US left Iraq too early and that the real boost to terrorism came from this and - especially - the response of the discredited Assad regime to the democratic protests in Syria. In the years of non-intervention which followed (voted for, amongst others, by a self-satisfied House of Commons) an even more disastrous "power vacuum" developed in Syria, which eventually spread to Iraq. It continues to this day. 200,000 dead in Syria and counting. The anti-human Islamic State controlling large parts of northern and western Iraq. 

[bigbonedrawky]

After 13 years, 2 wars and trillions in military spending, terrorist attacks are rising sharply

Do you have a corresponding Graph for the War on Drugs...and does it look a bit like that one ?

[Broad Spectrum]

Israeli cabinet approves legislation defining nation-state of Jewish people


A controversial bill that officially defines Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people has been approved by cabinet despite warnings that the move risks undermining the country’s democratic character.

Opponents, including some cabinet ministers, said the new legislation defined reserved “national rights” for Jews only and not for its minorities, and rights groups condemned it as racist.

The bill, which is intended to become part of Israel’s basic laws, would recognise Israel’s Jewish character, institutionalise Jewish law as an inspiration for legislation and delist Arabic as a second official language.

Arab Muslims and Christians make up 20% of Israel’s population.

The cabinet passed the bill by a 14-7 majority after reports of rancorous exchanges during the meeting, including between the prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, and his justice minister, Tzipi Livni.

The bill, which still requires the Knesset’s approval to become a law, comes as tensions between Israelis and Palestinians rise sharply, and friction within Israel’s Arab minority grows.

Opponents include two of the more centrist parties in Netanyahu’s fragile coalition - which say the bill is being pushed through with forthcoming primaries in the prime minster’s rightwing Likud party in mind - and senior government officials including the attorney general.

According to many critics, the new wording would weaken the wording of Israel’s declaration of independence, which states that the new state would “be based on the principles of liberty, justice and freedom expressed by the prophets of Israel [and] affirm complete social and political equality for all its citizens, regardless of religion, race or gender”.

Among those to voice their opposition was the finance minister, Yair Lapid, who said he had spoken to the family of Zidan Saif, a Druze policeman killed in last week’s deadly attack on a Jerusalem synagogue.

“What will we tell his family? That he is a second-class citizen in the state of Israel because someone has primaries in the Likud?” he asked.

Netanyahu argued that the law was necessary because people were challenging the notion of Israel as a Jewish homeland.

“There are many who are challenging Israel’s character as the national state of the Jewish people. The Palestinians refuse to recognise this and there is also opposition from within.

“There are those, including those who deny our national rights, who would like to establish autonomy in the Galilee and the Negev.

“Neither do I understand those who are calling for two states for two peoples but who also oppose anchoring this in law. They are pleased to recognise a Palestinian national state but strongly oppose a Jewish national state.”

According to reports in the Hebrew media, the attorney general, Yehuda Weinstein, has also expressed concern, shared by some ministers, that the new law would effectively give greater emphasis to Israel’s Jewish character at the expense of its democratic nature. A number of Israeli basic laws use the term “Jewish and democratic”, giving equal weight to both. The new law would enshrine only the Jewish character of the state.

Netanyahu appeared to confirm that there would be differential rights for Israeli Jews and other minorities. He said that while all could enjoy equal civil rights, “there are national rights only for the Jewish people - a flag, anthem, the right of every Jew to immigrate to Israel and other national symbols.”

Cabinet ministers, including Netanyahu, separately proposed stripping Palestinian attackers of their residency rights in occupied East Jerusalem in response to a wave of deadly violence.

“It cannot be that those who harm Israel, those who call for the destruction of the state of Israel, will enjoy rights like social security,” Netanyahu said, adding that the measure would complement house demolitions and serve as a deterrent.

Critics, however, have condemned the measures as racist said that they could further escalate tensions.

The cabinet met as fresh reports of continuing violence emerged. In Gaza, the Palestinian health ministry said Israeli forces had shot dead a Palestinian on Sunday, the first such fatality since a 50-day Gaza war ended in August.

In the West Bank, a Palestinian home was torched on Sunday. No one was hurt in the fire, which gutted the home in the village of Khirbet Abu Falah near Ramallah, local residents said.

“The settlers came here and they hit the door, but I refused to open,” said Huda Hamaiel, who owns the house. She said they then broke a terrace window and hurled a petrol bomb inside.

“Death to Arabs” and another slogan calling for revenge were also painted on the walls of Hamaiel’s home, hallmarks of Jewish extremists’ so-called “price tag” attacks against Palestinian dwellings and mosques and Christian church property.

[Broad Spectrum]

Israeli president opposes proposed law to give ‘national rights’ to Jews only


Israel’s president, Reuven Rivlin, has voiced his strong opposition to a controversial proposed new law that would define “national rights” in Israel as reserved for Jews only.

The “Jewish nation-state” bill would recognise Israel’s Jewish character, institutionalise Jewish law as an inspiration for legislation and possibly delist Arabic as a second official language. It is being promoted vigorously by the prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, and was approved by the Israeli cabinet on Sunday, but has attracted fierce criticism from opponents inside Israel as well as from the US and the EU.

Critics contend that the law – whose final form of words has yet to be settled and whose language seems likely to be softened – threatens to undermine Israel’s declaration of independence, which gives equal rights to the country’s minorities, including Israeli Arabs, by promoting the idea of Israel as a “Jewish state” above one that is “democratic”.

In an emotional critique of the proposed new legislation, which would become part of Israel’s basic laws , Rivlin said those who had drawn up Israel’s declaration of independence “in their great wisdom, insist that the Arab public in Israel not feel like the Jews felt in the diaspora.”

Speaking at a conference in the southern city of Eilat, Rivlin, a member of Netanyahu’s Likud party, asked: “What is the point of this bill?”

“Does this bill not in fact play into the hands of those who seek to slander us? Into the very hands of those who wish to show that even among us, there are those who see contradiction between our being a free people in our land, and the freedoms of the non-Jewish communities in our midst?

“The declaration of independence, in its depth and greatness, bound together two components of the state as Jewish and democratic, democratic and Jewish.”

For his part, Netanyahu has argued that individual civil rights would be guaranteed under existing laws for all, but that “national rights” should be reserved for Jews.

Rivlin’s comments came as the bill becomes mired in the fractious politics of Netanyahu’s increasingly divided coalition, with centrist parties threatening to vote against it when it comes before parliament next week.

It has also drawn the opposition of some on the right – like Rivlin, as well as commentators – who argue it is an unnecessary law that gives ammunition to Israel’s critics internationally.

On Wednesday, former defence and foreign minister Moshe Arens condemned the new legislation in a comment piece for Haaretz.

“We don’t need legislation to make Israel a Jewish state, and you cannot make it a Jewish state by legislation,” he writes.

“It is a Jewish state because the majority of the population is Jewish, because the dominant language spoken is Hebrew, because most of the books published here are Hebrew books, and most of the songs sung here are Hebrew songs … But most important, because of the Law of Return which enables any Jew, anywhere in the world, seeking refuge or desiring to live in Israel, to come here and become a citizen of the country.

“But not only is the proposed law unnecessary, it is harmful. A quarter of Israel’s population is not Jewish, and probably the most important item on the nation’s agenda should be their integration into the fabric of Israeli society and their participation in the Israeli economy. Giving them the feeling of being at home, of being equal citizens.”

Other critics of the new law include Jamal Zahalka, an Israeli Arab member of the Knesset, who has said it will make the state “less democratic and more racist”. The Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, has described the law as a potential impediment to the peace process.

Rivlin’s intervention follows international warnings from the US and the EU.

A US state department spokesman said on Monday that it expected Israel to “continue [its] commitment to democratic principles”.

“The United States position, which is unchanged, has been clear for years – and the president and the secretary [of state] have also reiterated it – is that Israel is a Jewish and democratic state in which all citizens should enjoy equal rights.”

[bigbonedrawky]

Israeli Gov remove rights of Palestinian woman to live in Palestine...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30208693

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Israeli Gov remove rights of Palestinian woman to live in Palestine...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30208693

WTF are residency rights, everyone has to live somewhere.

[BarryCrocker]

Israeli Gov remove rights of Palestinian woman to live in Palestine...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30208693

Some people seem to be forgetting The Madagascar Plan that the Nazi's proposed to implement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

[Yorkykopite]

What's that got to do with anything?

[BarryCrocker]

What's that got to do with anything?

People losing their rights in a land they were born in.

[Yorkykopite]

As wrong as I find the residential rights being taken away from the widow of a cold-blooded mass murderer to be I find it amazing that it puts you in mind of the Nazi's Madagascar Plan. 

[Yorkykopite]

Just leaving aside the 'Fascist, Nazi Jewish State' for a moment, I thought this was pretty amazing on Syria. Their tragedy is, of course, nothing to the 'Holocaust' that is being visited on Palestinians by the 'SS Israelis'. Nonetheless, it's still quite bad.

https://audioboom.com/boos/2687639-understanding-syria-imagine-it-s-the-uk#t=0m3s

What he's saying, essentially, is that if the Syrian crisis had happened in the UK there would no longer be anyone living in Greater Manchester, Merseyside, Tyne & Wear, Belfast, Glasgow and half of Greater London. Everyone in these cities would have fled abroad. Everyone.

As for refugees who hadn't fled abroad but sought sanctuary within from the regime's air force and artillery, you have to add the other half of Greater London, Birmingham, Bristol, the entire South West, east Anglia, Coventry, Leicester Sheffield, Bradford, Plymouth, Leeds and Brighton, and all of Wales and Scotland. That's another 30 million people forced out of their homes.

Interesting. In fact frightening.

Anyway back to the Nazis of Tel Aviv..... 

[bigbonedrawky]

Some people seem to be forgetting The Madagascar Plan that the Nazi's proposed to implement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

I'd never heard of it myself but one surprising aspect was that it was originally a Polish plan before the Nazi adopted it. In either case I doubt the people of Madagascar where even consulted.
Oddly enough it also seems to of been the latest in a long line of plans for resettlement/colonization by various Governments (including the British) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorialism

[The Fletcher Memorial]

Just leaving aside the 'Fascist, Nazi Jewish State' for a moment, I thought this was pretty amazing on Syria. Their tragedy is, of course, nothing to the 'Holocaust' that is being visited on Palestinians by the 'SS Israelis'. Nonetheless, it's still quite bad.

https://audioboom.com/boos/2687639-understanding-syria-imagine-it-s-the-uk#t=0m3s

What he's saying, essentially, is that if the Syrian crisis had happened in the UK there would no longer be anyone living in Greater Manchester, Merseyside, Tyne & Wear, Belfast, Glasgow and half of Greater London. Everyone in these cities would have fled abroad. Everyone.

As for refugees who hadn't fled abroad but sought sanctuary within from the regime's air force and artillery, you have to add the other half of Greater London, Birmingham, Bristol, the entire South West, east Anglia, Coventry, Leicester Sheffield, Bradford, Plymouth, Leeds and Brighton, and all of Wales and Scotland. That's another 30 million people forced out of their homes.

Interesting. In fact frightening.

Anyway back to the Nazis of Tel Aviv..... 

I don't really know what you're getting at here mate, sorry if I've missed something along the way, I've not been in here much.

[RedRabbit]

Israeli Gov remove rights of Palestinian woman to live in Palestine...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30208693

Not quite accurate.

They're removing her right to apply for residency in East Jerusalem because that right only exists when she's married to someone from East Jerusalem. Which she isn't anymore. It's unclear where her son was born.

[bigbonedrawky]

Not quite accurate.

They're removing her right to apply for residency in East Jerusalem because that right only exists when she's married to someone from East Jerusalem. Which she isn't anymore. It's unclear where her son was born.

Who wrote those rules and what "right" have they to enforce them on a Occupied territory ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_478

She doesn't live in Israel, she is not a Israeli citizen and neither is her child yet a nasty version of frottage gets to say this:
."I have ordered the cancellation of Nadia Abu Jamal's permit to stay in Israel," Interior Minister Gilad Erdan said in a statement.
"Anyone who is involved in terror must take into account that there are likely to be implications for their family members too."

This is basically just another tactic of making life so shit for the Palestinians they leave. No doubt used in order to bring about the strategic goal of gaining a "Democratic" Jewish majority in Jerusalem.
Regarding the removal of the child it reminds me of something I read in during the Summer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

 ...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[BUSHMILLS]

I don't really know what you're getting at here mate, sorry if I've missed something along the way, I've not been in here much.

He's pointing out the double standards of people who get outraged when Israel does something bad to Arabs, yet stay stranglely silent when Arabs do far worse things to Arabs.

Pretty obvious, I'd say.

[Wool]

He's pointing out the double standards of people who get outraged when Israel does something bad to Arabs, yet stay stranglely silent when Arabs do far worse things to Arabs.

Pretty obvious, I'd say.

He seems to be doing the exact same thing just the other way around.

[Mutton Geoff]

He's pointing out the double standards of people who get outraged when Israel does something bad to Arabs, yet stay stranglely silent when Arabs do far worse things to Arabs.

Pretty obvious, I'd say.

it would be great if we treated all murdering bastards the same i agree with that .

[BUSHMILLS]

it would be great if we treated all murdering bastards the same i agree with that .

Take it up with Yorkykopite....I was merely explaining his post to someone who didn't understand it.

[RedRabbit]

Who wrote those rules and what "right" have they to enforce them on a Occupied territory ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_478

She doesn't live in Israel, she is not a Israeli citizen and neither is her child yet a nasty version of frottage gets to say this:
."I have ordered the cancellation of Nadia Abu Jamal's permit to stay in Israel," Interior Minister Gilad Erdan said in a statement.
"Anyone who is involved in terror must take into account that there are likely to be implications for their family members too."

This is basically just another tactic of making life so shit for the Palestinians they leave. No doubt used in order to bring about the strategic goal of gaining a "Democratic" Jewish majority in Jerusalem.
Regarding the removal of the child it reminds me of something I read in during the Summer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

 ...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it's awful. Or for that matter illegal, but they're not stopping her living in Palestine.

The Genocide section is a bit odd when you consider why they feel the need to go to these lengths. I also don't think your bolded section in accurate. What other group?

[Yorkykopite]

He's pointing out the double standards of people who get outraged when Israel does something bad to Arabs, yet stay stranglely silent when Arabs do far worse things to Arabs.

Yes, that's what I was doing. Or partly.

Plus I was wondering - as I often do when I come into threads like this - about the various comments over the past few weeks comparing Israel to the Nazis. It's a daft comparison obviously. Those who make it either know nothing about Nazi Germany or know nothing about Israel and Palestine. Or of they do know about these things they make the comparison anyway because they know it hurts. All that's ok by my book. Ignorance is a shame, and so is malice, but I understand that for some folks these things are unavoidable. More pity them.

What is amazing though is that while these odious comparisons are being made there is a country next door to Israel which really is behaving in a Nazi way. Millions of people have left the country as refugees. Millions more have fled their homes and are living lives of indescribable poverty within Syria. And over 200,000 people have been killed. And still the Assad regime pursues its policy of terror while the international community does nothing.

 

[Mutton Geoff]

Yes, that's what I was doing. Or partly.

Plus I was wondering - as I often do when I come into threads like this - about the various comments over the past few weeks comparing Israel to the Nazis. It's a daft comparison obviously. Those who make it either know nothing about Nazi Germany or know nothing about Israel and Palestine. Or of they do know about these things they make the comparison anyway because they know it hurts. All that's ok by my book. Ignorance is a shame, and so is malice, but I understand that for some folks these things are unavoidable. More pity them.

What is amazing though is that while these odious comparisons are being made there is a country next door to Israel which really is behaving in a Nazi way. Millions of people have left the country as refugees. Millions more have fled their homes and are living lives of indescribable poverty within Syria. And over 200,000 people have been killed. And still the Assad regime pursues its policy of terror while the international community does nothing.

 

Yeah but you know Political leaders have no morality, its always what's in it for us, and i think Russia backs Syria while the US and us back the rebels which makes it a diplomatic stalemate, problem i see with Palestine is who is really backing them on the world stage, we know the US will ride shotgun for the Israeli Government.

I am not as well versed in all of this than you and as a pacifist since Vietnam i never really study the reasons behind wars in detail as i see no reasons ever for them. So if i have this wrong I apologise.

Assad is a loathsome monster i agree but the West has backed other monsters if it was seen as a greater good for them to do so.

 General Pinochet comes to mind.

[jooneyisdagod]

Yes, that's what I was doing. Or partly.

Plus I was wondering - as I often do when I come into threads like this - about the various comments over the past few weeks comparing Israel to the Nazis. It's a daft comparison obviously. Those who make it either know nothing about Nazi Germany or know nothing about Israel and Palestine. Or of they do know about these things they make the comparison anyway because they know it hurts. All that's ok by my book. Ignorance is a shame, and so is malice, but I understand that for some folks these things are unavoidable. More pity them.

What is amazing though is that while these odious comparisons are being made there is a country next door to Israel which really is behaving in a Nazi way. Millions of people have left the country as refugees. Millions more have fled their homes and are living lives of indescribable poverty within Syria. And over 200,000 people have been killed. And still the Assad regime pursues its policy of terror while the international community does nothing.

 

Surely, you're not saying that Assad is solely responsible for the deaths of the 200,000 people, surely ? Not when you have the likes of Jabhat Al-Nusra and ISIS running parts of the country.

[Yorkykopite]

Surely, you're not saying that Assad is solely responsible for the deaths of the 200,000 people, surely ? Not when you have the likes of Jabhat Al-Nusra and ISIS running parts of the country.

You're right. I didn't say that. Surely!

But I hold his regime primarily responsible, as I'm sure you do to. A peaceful protest and a democratic opposition were met with a massive armed response - not just guns, but gunships, barrel bombs, artillery and airforce. Meanwhile the torture chambers worked over time. It was a classic Fascist fightback by a brutal and villainous regime. Russia and China backed the fascists, as they are inclined to do, and the poor old Free Syrian Army was denied financial help and military support from the West. Islamic State have now weighed in with their own massive death quota. But Assad's killers show no sign of abating either.

I merely said that if you want to see a modern-day analogue of Hitler then look no further than the Baathi regime in Damascus. They kill people for fun.

[bigbonedrawky]

I'm not disagreeing with you that it's awful. Or for that matter illegal, but they're not stopping her living in Palestine.

We are splitting hairs on a insignificant detail here so i'll just leave it at its illegal [ for good reason.]

The Genocide section is a bit odd when you consider why they feel the need to go to these lengths. I also don't think your bolded section in accurate. What other group?

I'm not sure i follow here "odd when you consider why they feel the need to go to these lengths" ?
The definition of Genocde isnt written with any particular conflict in mind nor does it try to define when Genocde is acceptable.

I did find the part about the removal of children odd athough i think it refers to mass movement of children but i also presumed it would come under the definition of Ethnic cleansing but... it turns out that after 20 years since the term was first coined nobody wants to agree on what the actuall legal definition of Ethnic cleansing is.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
There does seems to be fine line as to the difference between Genocide and Ethnic cleansing, probably because the two often go hand in hand. ( It gets even more complex when you have war crimes and crimes against humanity to consider because  they all seem to overlap with various subtle differences and legal definitions.)
   
As for why i would even post anything with the words Genocide or Ethnic cleansing in a thread containing the word Israel in it's title..."If the cap fits"
For example during the Gaza offensive/war/slaughter, one of the lines was crossed when UN hospitals (filled to the brim with refugees) was targeted on at least 17 different occasions. now try and work out which line was crossed.

[bigbonedrawky]

Yes, that's what I was doing. Or partly.

Plus I was wondering - as I often do when I come into threads like this - about the various comments over the past few weeks comparing Israel to the Nazis. It's a daft comparison obviously. Those who make it either know nothing about Nazi Germany or know nothing about Israel and Palestine. Or of they do know about these things they make the comparison anyway because they know it hurts. All that's ok by my book. Ignorance is a shame, and so is malice, but I understand that for some folks these things are unavoidable. More pity them.

Have comments been deleted from this thread ? because from what i can see the first time "Nazi" appeared in this thread was in relation to the Madagascar plan. (Turns out it was a Polish plan ) You then went all "Fascist, Nazi Jewish State" -"SS Israelis" - "Nazis of Tel Aviv" before moaning about "threads like this" If you "know it hurts" then dont say it.
 
Those of us who have read your previous posts on the subject might know it to be sarcasm but the internet doesn't always know the difference. The casual observer might not be willing to wait around for your clarification before getting offended.
 
As for Syria its a mess and I'm glad the "west" have stopped training and sending arms to Assad and ISIL I'm also glad the "west" have at least attempted to stop western Insurgants going to fight in the war and I'm also glad they face arrest on their return.
It's just a shame they dont treat all barbaric regimes or the shit stirring foreign insurgents that follow them,the same way.     

[Jebediah]

What does everyone make of the Palestinian leaderships' assertion that there will be not even one single Jew allowed to live in Palestine?

[viteslesrouges]

I did find the part about the removal of children odd athough I think it refers to mass movement of children but I also presumed it would come under the definition of Ethnic cleansing but...

I think the section regarding removal of children from one group to another points to the fact that throughout history dominant, or victorious, tribes, nations or what have you, have often killed all adults and older children from the defeated or subjected tribe/nation but assimilated younger children into their own group.

Ottoman turks did it with Armenian children, Germans did it with European children, and the list goes on.

The final stage of genocide is its denial.

[Mutton Geoff]

What does everyone make of the Palestinian leaderships' assertion that there will be not even one single Jew allowed to live in Palestine?

i don't know are they taking their citizenship away then.

 Tell you what if Israel gave back all the occupied territories and moved all the Israelis back into the original Israel well then here is a thought the Palestinians and Arabs in Israel might want to live in the new larger Palestine and the Israelis illegally living in the occupied territories could move back and live in Israel in the spaces created by this migration.

Might be better than scoring points by gunpoint and missiles and dubious rhetoric don't you think?

[Yorkykopite]

i don't know are they taking their citizenship away then.

 Tell you what if Israel gave back all the occupied territories and moved all the Israelis back into the original Israel well then here is a thought the Palestinians and Arabs in Israel might want to live in the new larger Palestine and the Israelis illegally living in the occupied territories could move back and live in Israel in the spaces created by this migration.

There's no question that the Jews currently illegally living and building in Palestine will have to leave - either back to Israel, as you say, or somewhere else where they already have citizenship. I'm sure Jeb agrees with you as he's always been an opponent of the settlers. But the Arab citizens of Israel? Would they wish to move to Palestine? I doubt it.