Topic: Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

[Red-Soldier]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/27/bitcoin-mining-consumes-electricity-ireland

Bitcoin’s “mining” network uses more electricity in a year than the whole of Ireland, according to statistics released as the currency broke $9,000 for the first time.

According to Digiconomist the estimated power use of the bitcoin network, which is responsible for verifying transactions made with the cryptocurrency, is 30.14TWh a year, which exceeds that of 19 other European countries. At a continual power drain of 3.4GW, it means the network consumes five times more electricity than is produced by the largest wind farm in Europe, the London Array in the outer Thames Estuary, at 630MW.

At those levels of electricity consumption, each individual bitcoin transaction uses almost 300KWh of electricity – enough to boil around 36,000 kettles full of water. Although power consumption of other payment networks is harder to isolate, one of Visa’s two US data centres reportedly runs on about 2% of the power required by bitcoin. Between them, those two data centres conduct around 200m transactions a day; the bitcoin network handles fewer than 350,000.

The astronomical power draw is a facet of how the bitcoin network protects itself against fraud. With no centralised authority confirming transactions, bitcoin is instead backed by “miners”, who put specialised computers to work churning through extremely power-intensive computing problems. Solving those problems both rewards the miner, handing them almost a quarter of a million dollars in bitcoin, and verifies all transactions made in the last 10 minutes.

As the price of bitcoin goes up, so does the value of the reward, meaning that more miners put more computers to the task of running the network. But since the price of bitcoin doesn’t necessarily rise in step with the number of transactions, that disconnect can mean the currency uses a significant amount of power per transaction in periods of high prices.


Something to think about....or not, as the case may be for many.

[G a r y]

Anyone know about Ripple?

How on Earth do you invest money in these things? I had a look at capital.com and etoro but it always seems like there is a risk you can lose more than your original outlay.

What would be the best way for me to invest say £100 and watch it grow? If I lose it, I lose it. I just don't want to lose more each day as seemed to be the case on those websites

[thejbs]

Anyone know about Ripple?

How on Earth do you invest money in these things? I had a look at capital.com and etoro but it always seems like there is a risk you can lose more than your original outlay.

What would be the best way for me to invest say £100 and watch it grow? If I lose it, I lose it. I just don't want to lose more each day as seemed to be the case on those websites

To find out how to buy any coin or token, go to https://coinmarketcap.com and look up the coin. From there, if you click into 'markets' you can find out the exchanges that list it.

Kraken is the most frustrating exchange to use, but also the easiest to deposit to imho. Set up an account in Kraken and on the revolut banking app. Send your £ to Revolut, exhange it to € and send it to Kraken.  It's the easiest way i've found to deposit and takes no more than 2-3 working days in total. Once you've got Euro in Kraken, you can buy ripple directly with Euro. 

You should get around 470-475 ripple for your £100. With a bit of luck you could see it turn it into £1000 in a few years but be prepared to see it turn into £50 in the next few months too.

Bitstamp allows you to buy BTC directly using a debit card but you'll lose a good bit in fees.

[G a r y]

Thanks mate.

I have a GateHub account and from what I can gather is I am buying 'Ripple' from people selling theirs? I can also offer to buy at a rate I set?

How easy is it to buy it from someone and how easy is it to sell? Sorry for all the newbie questions. I will get myself a Kraken account.

[thejbs]

On an exchange you'll have Bids and Asks.  Bids are the buyers, asks are the sellers. If there's an ask at a price (and quantity) you're willing to pay, you type in the rate they're selling at and buy.  If you put a bid order in below market value, it won't be fulfilled immediately but might get filled in a few mins or hours (or not at all).  Bid orders could save you a bit of money if fullfilled but could also mean you miss out if there's a pump in value.

I've missed out on a couple of big pumps by being slightly too stingy with my bids.  £DASH in particular was a big miss for me. I bid $260 each for 4 when it was at around $270 and didn't get a seller. It's now at over $600 and I didn't buy in til it was $400.

[G a r y]

Nice one mate, helping me to get my head around all this.

In your experience if you 'ask' at a decent price to you tend to sell quite quickly?

[thejbs]

In my experience, yeah, but I only ever sell when the value is on the up.  I have 2000 lumens that I bought really cheaply that I just put a sell order on as it's pumping.  The hope for me is that it'll dip after I sell so I can buy in again. If you sell when a coin is badly dipping, you might not see your sell orders fulfilled.

[aaronaldo]

Has anyone invested in C20 (Crypto 20)?

https://crypto20.com/

More information here - https://medium.com/@chaudhry_salmn/crypto-20-c20-a-blockchain-based-crypto-index-fund-investing-in-top-20-cryptocurrencies-as-per-a6ab3956b731

got a few friends who have invested, just trying to get my head around it all now.

[Xabi Gerrard]

To find out how to buy any coin or token, go to https://coinmarketcap.com and look up the coin. From there, if you click into 'markets' you can find out the exchanges that list it.

Kraken is the most frustrating exchange to use, but also the easiest to deposit to imho. Set up an account in Kraken and on the revolut banking app. Send your £ to Revolut, exhange it to € and send it to Kraken.  It's the easiest way i've found to deposit and takes no more than 2-3 working days in total. Once you've got Euro in Kraken, you can buy ripple directly with Euro. 

You should get around 470-475 ripple for your £100. With a bit of luck you could see it turn it into £1000 in a few years but be prepared to see it turn into £50 in the next few months too.

Bitstamp allows you to buy BTC directly using a debit card but you'll lose a good bit in fees.

Hi thejbs - newbie questions here:

So an exchange, such as Kraken, is used to buy the coins. If I'm not wrong, you also need an online wallet to store your purchase, right?

How would someone go about finding the best wallet to use?

And can these online wallets hold different types of currency (if I want to buy, say, Bitcoin, Litecoin and Etherium)?

Thanks 

[Inpeace]

if you are not getting too many you can leave the coins with Kraken - its quite well regulated and it means you can trade in and out easier.  Not the safest / best storage option out there but it is the easy option.

I am using myetherwallet.com for a different coin (MOD) as I didn't want to leave it in Binance.com (another exchange with more coins on it)

[Poet]

Not a detailed question but is bitcoin the best thing to invest in right now? (if not, what is?)

[Xabi Gerrard]

if you are not getting too many you can leave the coins with Kraken - its quite well regulated and it means you can trade in and out easier.  Not the safest / best storage option out there but it is the easy option.

I am using myetherwallet.com for a different coin (MOD) as I didn't want to leave it in Binance.com (another exchange with more coins on it)

Thanks Inpeace! So do you have your coins stored in different places (i.e some in Kraken, some in myeterwallet, etc) and do you use different exchanges for different coins?

[thejbs]

Not a detailed question but is bitcoin the best thing to invest in right now? (if not, what is?)

Depends on your goal.  For longterm holding Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin etc look like sound bets. For more immediate gains, Bitcoin isn't going to pump up 80% in a day like other coins are doing. 

For example, if you'd put $1000 into BTC last week it would be worth around $1390 now, but if you'd put $1000 into ADA a week ago it would be $5000 now. Unbelievable short-term gain, but ADA is more likely to lose a large % of it's value in the immediate term.

[Inpeace]

Thanks Inpeace! So do you have your coins stored in different places (i.e some in Kraken, some in myeterwallet, etc) and do you use different exchanges for different coins?

I have all my ETH in Kraken (moved from Coinbase as I was not liking their customer service) - Kraken has $420M volume a day sohttps://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/volume/24-hour/all/

I have MOD in a Wallet and not in Kraken as they did not trade this coin - I sent from Kraken to Binance to buy the MOD and then put it in a wallet as I don't know anything about binance and didn't want to risk it.  If I could I would have left it all in Kraken (MOD & ETH) until it is so significant I do not want to take the risk then buy a hardware wallet.

https://www.coindesk.com/information/how-to-store-your-bitcoins/

[Poet]

Depends on your goal.  For longterm holding Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin etc look like sound bets. For more immediate gains, Bitcoin isn't going to pump up 80% in a day like other coins are doing. 

For example, if you'd put $1000 into BTC last week it would be worth around $1390 now, but if you'd put $1000 into ADA a week ago it would be $5000 now. Unbelievable short-term gain, but ADA is more likely to lose a large % of it's value in the immediate term.

Looking for more long term, with a higher input of capital. Economics isn't my area of expertise, asked a few of my friends that work in the city and some are wary of bitcoin. 

[Inpeace]

Looking for more long term, with a higher input of capital. Economics isn't my area of expertise, asked a few of my friends that work in the city and some are wary of bitcoin.

Nothing I certain, there is a good chance this is the start of a lot of new money coming into Crypto or its due a big correction.  If you think the former perhaps a Crypto fund is better for you. 

[Xabi Gerrard]

I have all my ETH in Kraken (moved from Coinbase as I was not liking their customer service) - Kraken has $420M volume a day sohttps://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/volume/24-hour/all/

I have MOD in a Wallet and not in Kraken as they did not trade this coin - I sent from Kraken to Binance to buy the MOD and then put it in a wallet as I don't know anything about binance and didn't want to risk it.  If I could I would have left it all in Kraken (MOD & ETH) until it is so significant I do not want to take the risk then buy a hardware wallet.

https://www.coindesk.com/information/how-to-store-your-bitcoins/

Cheers 

[martinsquirtle]

So would I be mad to put a couple of grand in for the craic?

Please tell me you did

[Yanwoo]

“Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful”

― Warren Buffett

[thejbs]

Looking for more long term, with a higher input of capital. Economics isn't my area of expertise, asked a few of my friends that work in the city and some are wary of bitcoin.

They are wary because it's new and it's volatile.

At the moment Crypto has gained a market cap of $306bn while being shunned by many big money organisations and traders.  Coinbase, the easiest way to get into buying Bitcoin for regular joes like us, has crashed today under the weight of new registrations.

It'll be volatile at the moment and could even suffer all kinds of crashes (I'd expect some big dips soon after the hysteria and pumps this month) but digital currency is here to stay in the long term. It's all but inevitable that countries will start minting their own centralised crypto in the future.

I'd say you'd be completely mad to put your life savings, house deposit or pension into crypto, but you'd be completely mad not to risk some money that you can afford to lose.

[LiamG]

I had  0.00303447 bitcoins left over from yeaaaars ago, now worth £22

was worth about £2 years ago

Should i buy more? like would it be worth buying £100 worth and just keeping it for years?

[Elmo!]

At the risk of talking out of my backside, could Bitcoins keep rising to the point that they in fact became valueless - i.e. they were so valuable that no one could feasibly purchase them and there would be little point in doing so?

I don't see how seeing as you can buy and sell any fraction of a bitcoin.

[thejbs]

You can, I know, but say there is a large volume of BTC held by a relatively low amount of people and the coins went to, say, $1,000,000 would they even be able to liquidate that much BTC; would there be enough demand for it at that price - some people from the early days would have tens of thousands of them and be virtual $10billionaires.

Just theorising, not suggesting it will happen.

In theory it would require a market cap of around $17trillion (or much more if all coins have been mined). I think BTC will top off somewhere below 50k at best.

[Always_A_Red]

Has anyone ever had trouble depositing money onto Coinbase? I'm trying to use my Natwest debit card and when I click 'buy', it says something about having to tell my provider that I'm going to be making a deposit? I've spoken to Natwest and they cant see any attempts of making a deposit which makes sense as its not getting to a point where I put in the security number or go through to the 3D security payment page. Anyone had similar issues and suggest a solution?

[Marty 85]

I think this is just the start. Similar to how it jumped from being worth pennies initially to £87 four and a half years ago. Few knew about it back then but now it's mainstream news. Sure it's volatile and the past week was a hell of a ride but I know if i had some serious doh lying about i'd be looking to invest and leave it a few years. It could well crash but I think it's the beginning of something big it's still not too late to get in.

[CraigDS]

I think it's probably too late to make serious cash from little money being put in and left.

Then again this is from someone who was told about it when a single bitcoin cost under $1 (I think close to $0.10 even), and whilst I tried to buy some gave up when it was a little difficult to do so. Even just $100 back then would be worth around $11m now 

Even if you'd have bought £100 worth at the start of this thread, when they were priced at £60 each, it would be worth around £13.5k now.

[So… Howard Philips]

Has this got a smell of the South Sea Bubble or the Dutch Tulipmania about it?

[CraigDS]

Has this got a smell of the South Sea Bubble or the Dutch Tulipmania about it?

It's still exceptionally volatile, and will continue to be so for a while. It's not something you should throw money you can't afford to lose at, imo.

[So… Howard Philips]

It's still exceptionally volatile, and will continue to be so for a while. It's not something you should throw money you can't afford to lose at, imo.

Don't worry I won't. Neither will I be sending my cash to Mr Ponzi or the recently deposed Nigerian Oil Minister.

[Marty 85]

It's still exceptionally volatile, and will continue to be so for a while. It's not something you should throw money you can't afford to lose at, imo.

Yes, it all depends what you can afford to lose.

This goes beyond the average level 5 high risk investment your financial advisor tells you about while grimacing and explaining there's a chance you could lose some or all of your investment. Though, for the wealthy who have the capital to risk it must be very intriguing.

[CraigDS]

If you've the money to risk then playing the peaks and troughs, whilst having a decent mixed portfolio with some of the lesser well known alts in there (which I think have great potential to ride the coat tails of Bitcoin and emerge as genuine high value investments on the back of that).

[Prelude no.5]

This article is a perfect explanation of why this time it's different. I hate seeing the word Bubble associated with Bitcoin. Sure it's volatile and will fall or climb 20% in a day but the key difference to say, the tulip bubble, the price here is defined by consensus: what the seller and the buyer agree upon. What could termed to be a bubble is the crazy amount of new coins and ICOs. People throwing money away at coins and token just because they have the word 'blockchain' associated to it. Some of the coins out there are outrageous and are bound to fail.

I think it's impossible to get incredibly rich off bitcoin, off another coin though, sure. The whole Cyrpto market is just in its infancy. Coinmarketcap mark the total market cap at $318 billion. That's nowhere near close to where this would be if it becomes once the institutions get in.

I also think it's highly irresponsible for an individual not to have some exposure to cyrpto assets.

[CornerFlag]

So in March 2010 these things were $0.003 and now they're $11,050?  So, what, having 1000 of them 7 years ago means you turned $3 into over $11m?!  Fuck.

[Bunter]

It’s definitely a sign of the future, however too many questions still remain, I personally wouldn’t start plowing money in you can’t afford, especially on the back a massive spike. It’s still being used as a speculative tool rather than a currency. Massively open to exploitation and manipulation too plus lack of consumer protection from this. Will be interesting how this manifests over the next few years.

[Yanwoo]

This article is a perfect explanation of why this time it's different. I hate seeing the word Bubble associated with Bitcoin. It is not and can never be.

How can it never be a bubble?

I also think it's highly irresponsible for an individual not to have some exposure to cyrpto assets.

Huh?? Any individual?

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

If you've the money to risk then playing the peaks and troughs, whilst having a decent mixed portfolio with some of the lesser well known alts in there (which I think have great potential to ride the coat tails of Bitcoin and emerge as genuine high value investments on the back of that).

Such as? I’ve been looking at Ripple recently but there seems to be a lot going against it growing significantly.

[Inpeace]

Such as? I’ve been looking at Ripple recently but there seems to be a lot going against it growing significantly.

I wanted to take a bit of a punt and got some MOD and WTC, both related to supply chain.  Much more likely to fail than the bigger ones but bigger rewards if they are one of the "winners"

[S.Red please]

Any predictions to what price Bitcoin will be 1st January 2018? I'm going for £10k, expect the price to jump up when CME launch their Bitcoin futures trading.

[Inpeace]

Any predictions to what price Bitcoin will be 1st January 2018? I'm going for £10k, expect the price to jump up when CME launch their Bitcoin futures trading.

Any hit with the US government asking for details from coinbase re tax avoidance?

[So… Howard Philips]

Just curious?

Call me cynical but have  any posters on here actually come away with profit in the form of tangible cash in hand from trading Bitcoin?