Author Topic: Doping In Sport..  (Read 130012 times)

Offline pewithree3

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #40 on: July 9, 2012, 08:20:28 am »
Snooker players, taking beta blockers to control heart rate.

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #41 on: July 9, 2012, 10:25:22 am »
The Doping Shadow.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/

Outside the race, of course, there is plenty of uncertainty, and it revolves around the shadow of doping that continues to hover over the sport of cycling.  When USADA announced their investigation into the doping conspiracy by Armstrong and five others only weeks before the Tour, it was inevitable that the story would permeate throughout the race around France.

And when a leaked story emerged on Thursday, alleging that four current Tour riders and Jonathan Vaughters had testified and were given suspended six-month bans, the reaction was swift.  At first, USADA took a beating - how could the anti-doping body negotiate reduced sentences for dopers?  How dare they suspend the sentences for some people, and offer some form of leniency in return for testimony? 

Of course, doing this is morally acceptable, and it happens all the time, not only in sport, but in criminal investigations too.  It's as it should be - if you don't incentivize the truth, nobody would ever tell it, especially when they are already in the belly of the beast, as it were.  If cycling is to clean up its act, it requires that its riders, who are almost always part of the complex and intricate doping web (because honestly, who else can reveal how cheating happens if not a cheat?), come forward, and short of incentivizing this, it'll never happen.

But then the story was flatly denied, and the plot thickened.  Much has been written about it since, but this is one of the best commentaries on the leak, what it means, and how one might react to it.  It makes this observation:

"Regardless of where the leak fits into any broader legal or public relations strategy on the part of its U.S.-based source, it seems clear by its timing and its scope — not a full list of witnesses, only Tour de France participants — that it is intended to inflict maximum damage to the public image of the named parties.

As one of cycling’s few crossover successes, the Tour and its news reach the general public and the casual fan, and by timing the leak for the Tour’s first week, the source ensured that the names traveled beyond mere cycling circles, and that they would be perceived by the average news consumer as getting away with something by admitting doping and riding the Tour at the same time. By political standards, it was a shrewd move."

Those within cycling saw this news report, naming Hincapie, Leipheimer, Vande velde, Vaughters and Zabriskie as witnesses, and reacted with little more than cursory acknowledgement.  It's barely news, because the history of the case provides the context to know that they are likely to have spoken out.  That was only fueled when the four riders withdrew from USA Olympic team selection, so most who follow cycling barely registered the names.  To those outside, of course, it's different.

The problem, I guess, for Armstrong and his mighty PR machine, is that these men are more difficult to discredit than the previous witnesses, Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton. Both of them are known dopers, and they (gasp!) lied about doping after the fact.  Eventually, they came clean, and when they named Armstrong, they could be attacked for being greedy, dishonest, ambitious, conniving etc.

The same is not true of "The Five".  So what better strategy than to portray them as a) dopers, b) manipulative cheats who will tell USADA what they want to hear to save themselves, and c) getting away with it?  It's the defense strategy in a crystal ball.

There was some confusion, however, because having initially positioned the PR message as one of "look at how USADA are victimizing me" and "don't believe them, they're cheats", Armstrong later tried to portray the five as victims too.  He also worked himself into the awkward position of basically pointing out that everyone in his own team doped, before trying to argue that he, as the leader and most successful rider, didn't!  So not only did all his major challengers dope, so did his domestiques, his helpers, but he did it clean.  But that again is clear only to those who follow cycling outside of the Tour.  The overall thrust of the leak and reaction was one of strategically placed "explosives" to undermine the case, and one can see now why USADA has tried to keep the names of all its witnesses confidential. 

It's a mighty force to come up against.

As for the final question asked by this article, what do we make of the riders who testify, even when they implicate themselves as dopers in the past?  Or are they the whistle-blowers whose testimony may help rid cycling, once and for all, of its affliction (I nearly said "cancer" there, then remembered Paul Kimmage...he is one of the real whistle-blowers, by the way, along with David Walsh, Simeone, Bassons, Betsey Andreu, Emma o'Reilly etc).  The cynic in me says that much of this "truth" has emerged only because these men may have been faced with Federal investigators and the threat of perjury charges (you want an incentive to talk?  That's a good one). 

But I also think that they should be commended, because the bubble has to burst eventually, and who am I to second-guess the difficult choices made by men like these in a team sport where pressure is exerted to dope or "decay" (in a professional cycling sense)?  Their job and future in the sport they loved was held hostage at needle-point, and that's not a choice I'd want to make.  So as long as they may have lied, their truth now, however 'late', is worthy of praise.

If history records that their testimony opened the doors to a cleaner sport, then I'd be prepared to acknowledge their role.  Whistleblowers?  Perhaps not.  But their contribution to cycling may go on to be far more than pulling fellow dopers up Alpine and Pyrenean mountain passes for hours.

Let's see how that unfolds.  Until then, focs on the Tour, and the start of the mountains, a change in yellow and hopefully, some interesting power output numbers!  Remember, if you want quick thoughts, and links, I'm doing what I can do get them out on our Twitter feed!
« Last Edit: July 9, 2012, 10:27:37 am by BMW »

Offline Spanish Fan

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #42 on: July 9, 2012, 11:35:57 am »
cyclists,
athletes,
weight lifters,
skiers,
snooker players,
rugby players,
american footballers

all the above came to mind without too much thought,
some think that doping is a new problem.
About a 100 years ago an Italian running in the olympic marathon
collapsed just before the finishing line, he was found to have taken
strychnine which was a regular thing at that time.

Not so long ago the English rugby union sent out a memo to all clubs
with 5 groups of banned substances.
Many years ago when I was involved with cycle racing there were over
400 substances on the banned list.

We could even go further back. The ancient athletes in Olympia doped as well, taking hallucinogens, animal testicles etc. Don't know how much these substances enhanced their performance though. We have to remember that banned substances is a relatively new concept in sport. For instance, the Tour de France organisers did supply them to participants in many editions and were not banned until the mid sixties when some cyclists were abusing them so much that they were risking their health and life, although I don't think there is anything healthy in doing the Tour of France clean either. And in other sports antidoping controls started to take place even later.

Football, by the way, was one of the last to test for drugs. The first antidoping controls took place during the 1978 World Cup when the Scottish player Johnston got caught with stimulants.

So we have moved from an era of doping being tolerated to one when it is legally forbidden, but where authorities are not doing half as much as they could to prevent it. Let's not forget that doping helps the individuals perform much better and today we want our sporting heroes to be in tip-top condition throughout the whole season.
利物浦, 리버풀, Λίβερπουλ, リヴァプール, ليفربول, Liberpul

Offline Danny Boys Dad

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #43 on: July 9, 2012, 11:38:26 am »
The moose thing on the left of this picture definitely looks like he's on something, look at the height he's getting over that hurdle compared to the others.

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Offline kaz1983

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #44 on: July 9, 2012, 11:52:01 am »
If that's a moose and that's a lion, what the fucks the thing in between them?

Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #45 on: July 9, 2012, 11:53:47 am »
A canary. It's even wearing a Norwich shirt!
Joining Betfair? Use the referral code UHHFL6VHG and we'll both get some extra cash.

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Offline Danny Boys Dad

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #46 on: July 9, 2012, 12:06:34 pm »
Definitely a few dope fiends in this pic, is that an avocado? Who has an avocado as a mascot?

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Offline AnyGivenSunday

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #47 on: July 9, 2012, 01:50:45 pm »
The Doping Shadow.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/

It was articles from this website that opened my eyes to doping and, in particular, Armstrong for whom I previously had my head in the sands.  Regarding Armstrong and doping, until proven otherwise, he deserves the benefit of the doubt but, regardless, I *think* I will still admire what he came back from and went on to achieve.  With this case against him, I do wonder whether it is really worth revisiting old ground of a time when doping was particularly rife in cycling.  I can see the arguments for and against, but I'm still not so sure.

With doping there are many shades of grey (probably about 50 - couldn't resist :D), for example the debate in the early 2000's as to whether caffeine should be included on the banned substance list.  I think that the overarching aim of anti-doping initiatives should be to protect the health of the athletes.  Some of the earlier posts regarding the hormonal treatment given to youngsters is quite alarming.

From a purely spectator-based point of view it would ultimately be nice to watch sport being competed 'cleanly', and is something which authorities should strive for.  However, out of the two sporting "evils" I would rather that match fixing was eradicated, but I presume that that is a much murkier world to tackle.

Offline Danny Boys Dad

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #48 on: July 9, 2012, 01:56:37 pm »
I still don't believe what they are alleging about Armstrong and I wonder about the motivation behind pursuing a retired rider.
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Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #49 on: July 9, 2012, 07:17:29 pm »
I still don't believe what they are alleging about Armstrong and I wonder about the motivation behind pursuing a retired rider.
Give this a read mate.It might change your mind.http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

Maybe to let cyclist's coming through know that no one is above the sport.
« Last Edit: July 9, 2012, 07:27:30 pm by dave 5516 »
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Mouth

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #50 on: July 9, 2012, 07:25:24 pm »
I wish I could comment, but people seem to get mad at me about this issue for some reason.
"Paranoia is a very comforting state of mind. If you think they're out to get you, it means you think you matter"

Jurgen! What is best in life?

Crush your enemies. See dem driven before you. Hear d'lamentations of der vimmen.

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #51 on: July 9, 2012, 11:02:23 pm »
I wish I could comment, but people seem to get mad at me about this issue for some reason.
not in this thread they won't.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #52 on: July 9, 2012, 11:49:27 pm »
Give this a read mate.It might change your mind.http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

Maybe to let cyclist's coming through know that no one is above the sport.
Wow, just wow...damning ....
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Offline Lent§

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #53 on: July 9, 2012, 11:51:12 pm »
I need to think about what im typing here.


If Froome and Wiggins get exoposed then i'll look a c*nt.,
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Offline Lent§

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #54 on: July 9, 2012, 11:51:33 pm »
Wow, just wow...damning ....

Bullshit,
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Offline Lent§

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #55 on: July 9, 2012, 11:52:50 pm »
If there are 3 people on this thread i respect it's Dave Tony and me. BUT, i dont accept Dave's results....
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Offline Lent§

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #56 on: July 9, 2012, 11:53:21 pm »
Wow, just wow...damning ....
Seriously, read into it.
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Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #57 on: July 9, 2012, 11:58:44 pm »
If there are 3 people on this thread i respect it's Dave Tony and me. BUT, i dont accept Dave's results....
:lmao

Don't blame you.

Neither do I.
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Lent§

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2012, 12:00:28 am »
:lmao

Don't blame you.

Neither do I.
Lauhg all you want dave, i agree theres no way froome can be 3rd after a week of the tour.....
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Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2012, 12:13:46 am »
Wow, just wow...damning ....
The only thing stopping us from knowing what's going on in cycling and other sport's is the silence of the participant's.

All this shit falling on Armstrong's head has come about because enough cyclist's have had to tell the truth in front of a grand jury,lie to them go to jail.

Administrator's and the cheerleader's in the media don't want us to know the truth it's not good for tv rating's and selling stuff like Nike Trek and Oakley.

Think of Carl Lewis testing positive before the Olympics, 3 positive's covered up by the American's so he could compete in the Olympics.

Remember that 100 metres final? Everyone in that final was doped,and it was obvious to anyone who know's their way around a gym.Yet only one man got busted.

We're just mug's.
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2012, 12:16:02 am »
Lauhg all you want dave, i agree theres no way froome can be 3rd after a week of the tour.....
It's beyond laughable Jon.

Zoom zoom Froome,has managed to put time into Cancellara,I'm not having it.

After working his ball's off dropping the best climber's in the tour he's now doing a tt like that.I call bullshit.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 12:49:25 am by dave 5516 »
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Mouth

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2012, 01:52:40 am »
not in this thread they won't.
I think I will stay out of it this time, better part of valour and all that ;D
"Paranoia is a very comforting state of mind. If you think they're out to get you, it means you think you matter"

Jurgen! What is best in life?

Crush your enemies. See dem driven before you. Hear d'lamentations of der vimmen.

Offline rowan_d

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2012, 01:55:56 am »
I think I will stay out of it this time, better part of valour and all that ;D

I'm guessing

a) You think everyone should be allowed to dope
b) You think everybody already does it

Either of them right?

Offline Mouth

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2012, 02:35:30 am »
I'm guessing

a) You think everyone should be allowed to dope
b) You think everybody already does it

Either of them right?
Partly B, lots of people do it, maybe not everyone. People got out their pram at me over saying, mind it could of been the way I expresed my opinion as much as the opinion itself. ;D
"Paranoia is a very comforting state of mind. If you think they're out to get you, it means you think you matter"

Jurgen! What is best in life?

Crush your enemies. See dem driven before you. Hear d'lamentations of der vimmen.

Offline Melbred

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2012, 04:00:29 am »
What's happening with Sky will either put the sport ahead 10 years, or push it 10 years further back. I fear it's the latter.

Cynicism doesn't lie with just Wiggins.

Wiggins, a 30+ year old trackie who has turned himself into an unstoppable machine besting the climbers on the climbs, managing to lose 10kg yet still improve his TT power too, and a guy who was on the verge of losing his pro contract when he suddenly got over an illness to become one of the best climbers and TT'ers in the world for three weeks... only to then contract that same illness again for another 6 months only to suddenly get over it in time to become one of the best climbers and TTers in the world for another three weeks?

It all happens to coincide with the hiring of Leinders. No one was willing to hire him after the scandals hit him. Leinders never even tried to refute or deny, and just hid away hoping for it all to fly pass. His reputation was completely tarred black by ex-riders and the media. Low and behold, he joins team Sky.

It's hard not to have suspicions.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 04:26:49 am by Melbred »

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2012, 05:58:35 am »
Dave Brailsford Interview: Doping & Team Sky's Anti-Doping Policy.

TUESDAY, 15 FEBRUARY 2011

The Guardian today published a feature interview with Dave Brailsford ahead of the Track World Cup meeting in Manchester this weekend. The interview was done by perhaps the second best newspaper interviewer in the country, Donald McRae. It is worth checking out his profile to read his past interviews of other sporting stars as they are very interesting and insightful. Perhaps following Paul Kimmage’s lead  McRae has since published the full transcript of the interview on the Guardian website. This is well worth a read for any cycling fan. I managed to fill two sides of A4 with notes while reading the interview so I have plenty more topics and issues to blog about. This first topic that I want to tackle from the interview is the one that most people have been tweeting about since the article was published, Doping and Team Sky’s anti-doping policy.

Dave Brailsford says that Team Sky is ‘at the forefront of trying to promote clean cycling’.  I would agree that Sky, along with some other teams Garmin  & HTC, have an admirable policy of anti-doping amongst their riders and their rider recruitment. The ethos at Team Sky has always been to create an environment where the riders would never feel the pressure or need to dope. This I think has been achieved. What I feel Team Sky has failed to do is be more public about their anti-doping stance. For example little is known about their in house testing procedures of riders and whether they have a no needle policy. The team that is currently leading the way on this front is Garmin Cervelo as confirmed by the Inner Ring. They in fact go further and have published blood profiles after the 2008 Tour de France of Christian Van De Velde and Bradley Wiggins after 2009 Tour. Sky may be doing all these things as well but nobody in the cycling community knows about them. Why not have a page on their excellent website devoted to anti-doping and explain the measure they take. Part of having an anti-doping ethic in the team is publicly supporting it and this will help change the general ethos in the sport and hopefully enlighten the non-cycling fan of the sports anti-doping efforts. This last point is badly needed considering recent developments.



When asked by McRae if he had changed his ‘zero-tolerance’ thinking by approaching Neil Stephens about joining Team Sky a Sports Director, Brailsford later half of the response was as follows:

And it seems to me and this is the one thing I've learnt: there's a general perception, and this is only an observation on my part, that certain people admitted to doping in the past who apologize and they generally get forgiven. People say, 'OK, fair enough, you've apologized.' I think there is a degree of humility and remorse that they show and people say, 'OK, fair enough, you can have a second chance.' And then there are other people who have done exactly the same thing and yet there are still disliked. There is still a negative towards them. That's interesting to observe. David Miller is now somebody who is generally considered to be a good guy who has come through a difficult time. He's liked again. But there are other individuals who don't get the same leeway. I don't know why…

I hope you excuse me including such a long quote but I think it is the most interesting in the whole article and therefore merits inclusion. My explanation to Brailsford would be that fans of the sport have to deal with so many scandals and doping cases over the years that they become extremely sceptical. As a result they only forgive those who have doped who are very clearly and definitively anti-doping; those who are not clear do not get forgiven.

My own example of this is Rolf Aldag and Brian Holm. They both confessed to doping after they had retired from the sport. The main reason behind their confession was not guilt but the fact that the former Telekom massage therapist Jef d’Hont was going to go public about the doping that went in the team in his new book. Why do I not forgive them? Well at the live screening of ‘Chasing Legends’ at the 02  in London on October 21st there was an question and answer session that took place after the film with both Holm & Aldag along with Cavendish and the film’s director hosted by Phil Liggett. When Liggett asked Holm and Aldag what was the proudest moment of their careers they both responded by saying it was helping Bjarne Riis to victory at the 1996 Tour de France. I almost jumped out of my seat in anger. I am sorry but you did not win that Tour with Riis clean and therefore you did not win that Tour end of. I presume riders like Ricco still believe that he won two Tour de France stages in 2008.  If they still have that attitude then I would not want those sorts of characters coaching, advising and directed promising young talents like Tejay Van Garderen and John Degenkolb.

The abandonment of Sky’s zero-tolerance policy caused quite a stir on twitter when the article was first published. Blazin’ Saddles was first to get in on the act by jokingly saying that Manolo Saiz must be going to Team Sky.  Others like Flamme Rouge poured scorn on the Sky anti-doping policy by asking ‘This Sky thing about Zero Tolerance was this looked at before or after they signed Sean Yates?’. The Inner Ring passed judgement by saying ‘I don't have a problem with Brailsford's realism, just the idea of "zero tolerance", either you live by it or you ditch it.’ I would agree. Sky’s zero-tolerance approach was always an admirable one but perhaps a bit too idealistic. So many of the professional peloton have been associated with doping one way or another than it makes it very hard to have 100% clean backroom staff. Some would argue that Sky do not have this as Sean Yates is part of their backroom staff I would avoid making a judgement on him.

Euan Lindsey raised an interested point of view to me on twitter yesterday on this matter. He argued that the ‘zero-tolerance’ was created to try and create a buffer between Team Sky and the track programme in case there was problem created by a positive test.  Ultimately Sky’s new approach comes down to whether you trust Dave Brailsford judgement as he will have the final say in the composition of the team. Personally, and some of you may be surprised to read this, I do trust Brailsford’s judgement on this matter largely because of his decision not hire Neal Stephens.

Lastly Dave Brailsford commented on the ongoing Michael Barry saga about which I recently posted a blog. Brailsford comments are similar to the ones he has made before which I summarised in the previous blog. One of the pieces of feedback I got from that post was again from Euan Lindsey. He argued that Barry may have flirted with doping at his time at US Postal (not too dissimilar to everybody’s favourite anti-doping hero Jonathan Vaughters) and realised it was not for him and that he was more than happy riding clean in support for his team mates and not winning races. I must confess this has always been my opinion although I have no proof to back it up. All I wish is that if this is the case that Barry comes forward and tells the truth.

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Offline kaz1983

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2012, 06:02:42 am »
"My explanation to Brailsford would be that fans of the sport have to deal with so many scandals and doping cases over the years that they become extremely sceptical. As a result they only forgive those who have doped who are very clearly and definitively anti-doping; those who are not clear do not get forgiven."

I thought that bit was very interesting.

Offline Terry_Tibbs

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2012, 12:20:58 pm »
Aye aye first rest day in the TdF and the first knock on the door by the Gendarmes:

Quote
FRANCE 24 ‏@FRANCE24
[BREAKING] ‪#Cycling‬: Police raid ‪#Cofidis‬ cycling team hotel on Tour de ‪#France‬ http://f24.my/rxo4QT

Offline dave 5516

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2012, 01:19:11 pm »
Aye aye first rest day in the TdF and the first knock on the door by the Gendarmes:
Here's a link to lequipe Give's the reason why Cofidis was raided,which initially looked peculiar,to me anyway.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Di-gregorio-en-flagrant-delit/297607
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2012, 01:22:38 pm »
What's wrong with De Gregorio.Doesn't he know you don't have to dope to win the tour,hard work and and dedication that work's better than doping.

And he's still only in 39th place.Wanker.
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2012, 01:23:25 pm »
Well that link looks peculiar to me, I can't speak French after all -nor read it ;)

Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2012, 01:28:37 pm »
If they dope tested everyone on the Tour would there actually be anyone left allowed to ride?
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Offline AnyGivenSunday

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2012, 01:34:12 pm »
If they dope tested everyone on the Tour would there actually be anyone left allowed to ride?

 :D Probably not if there were tests that could detect every doping substance and method.  I would love to know how many of the riders are genuinely "clean".  As it stands, a lot of the doping methods aren't really detectable.  It's only really the riders that have been careless or pushed the boundary too far that get caught.

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2012, 02:02:08 pm »
Well that link looks peculiar to me, I can't speak French after all -nor read it ;)
It say's that Di Gregorio was arrested as he met with two men thought to be selling him doping product's.This came after he made a call through his laptop which was tapped as part of a year long investigation in Astana.
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #74 on: July 10, 2012, 02:40:20 pm »
They should have two tours, one for clean riders and one where anything goes.
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline AnyGivenSunday

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2012, 02:46:48 pm »
They should have two tours, one for clean riders and one where anything goes.

I've thought that about the Olympics too.  Of course it'll never happen, but it'd be an interesting thing to see what times people can run, or how far they can throw or jump if there were no restrictions.

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2012, 04:26:27 pm »
What's wrong with De Gregorio.Doesn't he know you don't have to dope to win the tour,hard work and and dedication that work's better than doping.

And he's still only in 39th place.Wanker.

Well he may have been 139 without it. And we don't know anything about the 38 in front of him.  ;D
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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #77 on: July 10, 2012, 04:32:48 pm »
Well he may have been 139 without it. And we don't know anything about the 38 in front of him.  ;D
;D  :thumbup
Exercise is to the body what reading is to the mind.

"If I hadn't doped, I would never have won". "Doping improves your performance between 5 and 7 per cent, and maybe 10 to 12 per cent when you are in a peak shape.

"Doping isn't addictive but it's an instrument of power: whoever wins attracts the money; for themselves, the team and the sponsors"

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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #78 on: July 10, 2012, 04:40:32 pm »
Past Tour de France winners and their involvement  with drugs.
From wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France

Many caught on more than one occasion, others confesed once they retired.
 
The information they provide about Luis Ocana is wrong. I know he tested positive the year before he retired. Hinault was never caught, but he refused to pass antidoping controls in some races.

I wonder if there has ever been a Tour de France winner completely clean. Many say Lemond, but it just doesn';t make sense to me that a rider is able to win it when there are so many cases before and after that were at it, some of them the biggest names the race has ever produced.
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Re: Doping In Sport..
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2012, 04:49:34 pm »
You don't think Wiggins (assuming her wins) is clean?
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?