Poll

is it safe?

Yes
172 (54.4%)
No
66 (20.9%)
I don't know
64 (20.3%)
I don't care
14 (4.4%)

Total Members Voted: 316

Author Topic: Nuclear Energy  (Read 49527 times)

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #200 on: April 20, 2012, 09:37:26 pm »
Only if you ignore the point of origin of the CANDU reactor; Canada.

And Nucleus for NewClear.

You will concede the point that the directors of CanDO! didn't call it CanNot! (supply cost effective electricity) or CanLeak! (tens of thousands of gallons of radioactive water into the local environment).

Given the choice for these crucial naming issues that frame initial public perception, they went with a positive and optimistic sounding composite word.


Offline Red Crown

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #201 on: April 21, 2012, 07:20:47 am »
And Nucleus for NewClear.

You will concede the point that the directors of CanDO! didn't call it CanNot! (supply cost effective electricity) or CanLeak! (tens of thousands of gallons of radioactive water into the local environment).

Given the choice for these crucial naming issues that frame initial public perception, they went with a positive and optimistic sounding composite word.

You of course have evidence that CANDU reactors aren't supplying cost effective electricity or that they dump 'tens of thousands of gallons of radioactive water into the local environment'?

And further more have a valid reason that the acronym doesn't stand for Canadian Deuterium Uranium which refers to it's place of origin, moderator and (initial) fuel type?  Then sure they chose a "optimistic/Neurolinguistic propaganda/orwellian double think" not based at all on the above... ::)

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #202 on: April 21, 2012, 07:49:43 am »
You of course have evidence that CANDU reactors aren't supplying cost effective electricity or that they dump 'tens of thousands of gallons of radioactive water into the local environment'?

And further more have a valid reason that the acronym doesn't stand for Canadian Deuterium Uranium which refers to it's place of origin, moderator and (initial) fuel type?  Then sure they chose a "optimistic/Neurolinguistic propaganda/orwellian double think" not based at all on the above... ::)

Firstly: Are you related to Redline? What is with the random bolding formatting?

Secondly: I can read, have an internet connection and the ability to utilise the search provisions of google. To that extent I can type in 'candu radioactive leak' and pull all of the related news stories if that would float your boat. Strangely, the wiki article (which will be corporate vetted if they have any sense) for candu gives a load of info and sources of cost overruns, expensive design flaws, export disasters that cost the canadian tax payer billions. I mean, if that stuff is so public domain that they don't bother to hide it, what other bribery scandals, contamination disasters and or political machinating has been going on behind the scenes?

But you're a smart boy and can use google to find this out for yourself.

Lastly: Canadian deuterium uranium. Do you honestly think it is just a coincidence that their chosen monkier sounds like CanDO!?

Not very catchy. I prefer Canadian Nuclear, Of Tritium. Because they certainly CanNOT deliver cost effective or safe energy.

Offline Red Crown

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #203 on: April 21, 2012, 08:38:36 am »
Firstly: Are you related to Redline? What is with the random bolding formatting?

Nothing random about my bold formatting.

Secondly: I can read, have an internet connection and the ability to utilise the search provisions of google. To that extent I can type in 'candu radioactive leak' and pull all of the related news stories if that would float your boat. Strangely, the wiki article (which will be corporate vetted if they have any sense) for candu gives a load of info and sources of cost overruns, expensive design flaws, export disasters that cost the canadian tax payer billions. I mean, if that stuff is so public domain that they don't bother to hide it, what other bribery scandals, contamination disasters and or political machinating has been going on behind the scenes?

But you're a smart boy and can use google to find this out for yourself.

Not how it works, YOU make the claim, YOU post the evidence.  It's known as burden of proof.  It's not my job to help support your position.

I prefer Canadian Nuclear, Of Tritium. Because they certainly CanNOT deliver cost effective or safe energy.

And your proof for that is ... oh I forget, silly me, it's 'Out there' eh?

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #204 on: April 21, 2012, 05:40:22 pm »

Yup. Don't see any proof (from you) of their foolproof safety standards either.

{Edit - for clarification}
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 12:10:51 am by RojoLeón »

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #205 on: April 21, 2012, 05:46:19 pm »
http://www.ocregister.com/news/fire-350334-unit-down.html#

Small electrical fire reported at San Onofre

A small fire broke out in an electrical panel Friday at the San Onofre nuclear plant, but the fire was put out quickly and did not involve nuclear material, plant operators said.
By PAT BRENNAN / ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

A small fire broke out in an electrical panel Friday at the San Onofre nuclear plant, but the fire was put out quickly and did not involve nuclear material, plant operators said.

Both of San Onofre's reactors remain shut down as the operator, Southern California Edison, continues to probe troubled steam generator tubes that have shown signs of premature wear; the cause is so far unknown.

The electrical fire was reported at 12:49 p.m. in the "non-radiological side" of the Unit 2 reactor, Edison said. San Onofre's fire department put it out, and the "unusual event" was declared over by 1:41 p.m.

No one was hurt and neither employees nor the public were threatened, Edison said. The company is investigating the cause.

Both the Unit 2 and the Unit 3 reactors have been shut down since January; Unit 2 had been shut down for routine maintenance, while operators shut down Unit 3 Jan. 31 after a water leak was detected in one of its steam-generator tubes. The leak resulted in the escape of a small amount of radioactive gas, and while a sensor in a building next to the reactor was tripped, no other sensors on the property detected any change in radiation.

Hundreds of steam-generator tubes were then found to have premature wear. They are among nearly 20,000 such tubes that allow water heated by each reactor to create steam inside the generators, driving turbines that create electricity

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-18/radioactive-discovery-halts-pacific-hwy-upgrade/3957168/?site=illawarra

Workers sick amid highway radiation scare

Updated April 18, 2012 13:54:54
Pacific Highway construction site where suspected nuclear material was uncovered

Roads and Maritime Services has set up an exclusion zone around the site.

Road workers were sent for medical treatment after vomiting when suspected nuclear material was unearthed during work on an upgrade to the Pacific Highway in New South Wales.


The materials were buried near Laurieton, south of Port Macquarie, after a truck carrying radioactive elements including caesium and americium crashed in 1980.

The isotopes were being taken from Sydney's Lucas Heights nuclear reactor to Brisbane from where it was to be shipped to the United States.

Road upgrade project manager Bob Higgins says the workers fell ill after unearthing a strange clay-like material from a cutting where material from the crash is believed to have been buried.

"As we've taken down the cutting, there we exposed the face of the existing material [and] came across a clay material that, when it's exposed to air, gets an orange streak through it," he said.

"There were a number of workers that felt a little bit of nausea and there was a bit of vomiting when they were in close proximity.

"[They went] off to the doctor. Those workers are OK, but obviously we need to be extremely careful here."

The environmental impact statement for the highway upgrade had noted some uncertainty about where the material was buried.

Specialists are in the area assessing what to do with the materials and if they pose any risk.
Triple checking

A federal parliamentary report into hazardous materials in 1982 included details of the crash.

"A truck carrying containers of radioactive material, americium-241, caesium-137, and toxic chemicals overturned near Port Macquarie," the report said.

"Fortunately an Australian Atomic Energy Commission officer holidaying at Port Macquarie at the time of the accident was able to make an examination and declare the containers carrying the radioactive material undamaged."

Mr Higgins says that information is being checked in light of the sick workers.

"The bottles hadn't broken, that's the information that we had, and it was able to be transferred to Brisbane. But we double check and we're triple checking just to make sure that nothing's there," he said.

"It's a process of elimination that's going on at the moment. You test for this type of chemical. You test for that type of chemical."
Exclusion zone

Roads and Maritime Services has set up an exclusion zone around the site, while the WorkCover Authority of NSW and the state's Environmental Protection Authority have also been called in.

"It's only in the immediate vicinity of where we found it. The rest of the [highway upgrade] work can continue," Mr Higgins said.

Brian Parker from the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union (CFMEU) says the exposure should not have happened.

"We're certainly angry and annoyed about the lack of procedure or process in terms of not exposing anybody, knowing full well that we've had an incident that took place and high toxic substances and exposure to all sort of materials," he said.

John Mackay, a doctor who treated police who became ill at the crash site in 1980, says he is convinced they suffered radiation poisoning.

Dr Mackay says the officers handled radioactive mater that was onboard the truck.

"The police were instructed by Lucas Heights to approach the radioactive containers, of which there were several, but in particular the caesium-137 containers and put their arms inside of it to check if the inside radioisotope had been broken,"
he said.

"Within seconds or minutes the men felt intensely sick."


Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #206 on: April 27, 2012, 07:55:52 pm »
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/2012/04/jellyfish-like-organisms-shut-down-california-power-plant/

(those pesky Jellyfish again - bringing Nuclear power to it's knees)

Jellyfish-Like Organisms Shut Down California Power Plant

The workers of the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant received a very slimy surprise this week when they discovered hoards of jellyfish-like creatures clinging to the structure, leading to the shutdown of the plant.

The organisms, called salp, are small sea creatures with a consistency  similar to jellyfish.

The influx of salp was discovered as part of the plant’s routine monitoring system, according to Tom Cuddy, the senior manager of external and nuclear communications for the plant’s operator, Pacific Gas & Electric.

“We then made the conservative decision to ramp down the affected unit to 20 percent and continued to monitor the situation,” Cuddy said. “When the problem continued, we made another conservative decision that it would be safest to curtail the power of the unit.”

The salp were clogging the traveling screens in the intake structure, which are meant to keep marine life out and to keep the unit cool.

“Safety is the highest priority,” Cuddy said. “We will not restart the unit until the salp moves on and conditions improve. No priority is more important than the safe operation of our facility.”

The plant consists of two units. Unit 1 was shut down previously because of refueling and maintenance work and will not be functional for several weeks. Now that Unit 2 has been shut down because of the influx of salp, the plant has ceased all production.

Even with the Diablo Canyon plant out of commission, PG&E has pledged to continue production using other sources of power so that customers are unaffected by the closure.

“We’ve had salp cling to the intake structure before, but nothing to this extent,” Cuddy said.

The plant’s strategy? Simply wait until the salp move on and resume production once the filters are clear.

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #207 on: April 27, 2012, 08:01:24 pm »
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2012/04/27/inspector-general-faults-epa-radiation-monitoring/

(holy fucking shit - not a good sitch for us, the EPA or the Industry)

Inspector General Faults EPA Radiation Monitoring

Twenty percent of the EPA’s stationary radiation monitors were out of service last year at the time of the Fukushima nuclear accident, leading the U.S. Office of the Inspector General to conclude that the EPA’s Radnet system is “vulnerable” and managed with less urgency and priority than it deserves.

Broken monitors, parts shortages, “relaxed quality controls” and a lack of volunteer operators left 25 of the EPA’s 124 stationary monitors out of service for an average of 130 days at the beginning of the Fukushima disaster, according to the OIG. Two monitors—in Harlingen, Texas and Raleigh, North Carolina—were out of service for more than a year.

“EPA’s RadNet program will remain vulnerable until it is managed with the urgency and priority that the Agency reports it to have to its mission,” the Inspector General concludes in an audit released  last week.

“If RadNet is not managed as a high-priority program, EPA may not have the needed data before, during, and after a critical event such as the Japan nuclear incident. Such data are crucial to determine levels of airborne radioactivity that may negatively affect public health and the environment.”

The Radnet system consists of 124 stationary monitors distributed throughout the United States and 40 mobile deployable monitors. When operating properly, the monitors constantly sample the air and send data to EPA headquarters, where computers monitor the data and alert officials to unusual readings. The monitors also serve as collection stations for precipitation, drinking water, and milk samples.

In accordance with the Patriot Act, EPA has identified the Radnet system as “critical infrastructure” for homeland security.

But many monitors were in critical condition when fallout from the Fukushima nuclear disaster began drifting across the United States and its territories last March. According to the audit:

    Broken RadNet monitors and late filter changes impaired this critical infrastructure asset. On March 11, 2011, at the time of the Japan nuclear incident, 25 of the 124 installed RadNet monitors, or 20 percent, were out of service for an average of 130 days. The service contractor completed repairs for all monitors by April 8, 2011. In addition, 6 of the 12 RadNet monitors we sampled had gone over 8 weeks without a filter change, and 2 of those for over 300 days. Because EPA managed RadNet with lower than required priority, parts shortages and insufficient contract oversight contributed to extensive delays in fixing broken monitors. In addition, broken RadNet monitors and relaxed quality controls contributed to the filters not being changed timely. Out-of-service monitors and unchanged filters may reduce the quality and availability of critical data needed to assess radioactive threats to public health and the environment.

EPA officials agreed with most of the recommendations in the audit and said most will be implemented this month, but they disputed any assertion that the system underperformed or was inadequately managed:

EPA Radnet Stations

“EPA recognizes the expressed concern about RadNet station operability, and we have taken steps to address the issue more completely,” assistant administrators Gina McCarthy and Craig Hooks say in EPA’s official response, which appears at the end of the audit. ”However, the RadNet system was able to provide sufficient data to determine levels of airborne radioactivity during the weeks after the Fukushima nuclear power plant incident.”

“The EPA is particularly concerned about the statements concerning ‘relaxed quality controls’ since the EPA contends that this is inaccurate.”

Although EPA identifies Radnet monitors as critical infrastucture, it depends upon volunteers to maintain them. Agency protocol calls for filters to be changed twice weekly, a schedule that some volunteers have been unable to maintain.

“EPA cannot assign volunteers or enforce expectations upon them,” McCarthy and Hooks write in their response to the audit. “Instead, EPA seeks volunteers, without compensation for their time and effort…. EPA also provides recognition, such as letters of appreciation to their supervisors, for their service in an effort to maintain a good relationship with our volunteers.


Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #208 on: April 27, 2012, 08:22:43 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/_KsNsJ-Heu4?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/_KsNsJ-Heu4?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0</a>

Video about the effects of mining and processing Uranium - 1992 World Uranium Council at Saltzburg. Talks about Hanford, Savannah River (two of the most polluting sites in North Amrica), liquid (low level waste (plutonium hydroxide)) pumped into Irish Sea at Sellafield and the low level contamination around and in the houses of workers in Cumbria.

35mins in, Alice Stewart talks about her research into long term damage via radiation.

Quote
    It was once thought that provided the radiation was delivered slowly enough to everybody there would then be no effect at all. What was dangerous was the sudden explosion.

    My work suggests the opposite. The slower you spread the dose, the more effective every bit of radiation is going to be for producing cancer or inherited defects.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2002/jun/28/guardianobituaries.nuclear

Quote
Alice Stewart, who has died aged 95, achieved worldwide fame, and changed medical practice, through her tenacious investigations and demonstration of the connection between foetal x-rays and child cancers. She went on to attract the enmity of the nuclear and health physics establishments - and the hostility of the British and American governments - by insisting that her studies showed that the adverse effects of exposure to low-level radiation were far more serious than had been officially accepted.

She was also the first woman member of the Association of Physicians, and only the ninth (and youngest) to become a fellow of the Royal College of Physicians.

Stewart's entire life and career were devoted to social medicine, to the improvement of the lives of others, and to the bitter battles that have to be fought to ensure that findings contrary to policy or received wisdom - however important these may be to public or worker health - are investigated in a balanced and adequate way and, where necessary, acted upon.

Her pioneering work in industrial epidemiology, and on the effects of low-level radiation, earned her the 1986 Right Livelihood Award, the so-called "alternative Nobel prize" which is awarded by the Swedish parliament the day before the real Nobel, and the 1991 Ramazzini Award. In Britain, her findings on low-level radiation were regarded as so controversial that the British embassy even refused to send a car to collect her at the airport when she flew to Stockholm to receive the Livelihood prize.

Stewart was a brilliant student who matured into a gifted, decisive, tough, fearless and dedicated researcher. But she was also a lover of home, garden and countryside who, at a time of hostility toward professional women, managed to bring up a family while also carving out a career that reached international stature.

Born in Sheffield, where both her parents were doctors known for their interest in child welfare, she went from school to Girton College, Cambridge, to study medicine. She was, however, one of only four women among 300 men on her course, and recalled having to run the gauntlet of hostile male students stamping their feet in protest at the women's attendance at lectures.

Because, at that time, the Sheffield medical establishment did not accept women as hospital residents, Stewart went from university to the Royal Free hospital, in north London, for her clinical training. There, she mopped up the prizes, and revealed outstanding gifts for the diagnosis of rare conditions. After spells at the Manchester children's hospital and the London School of Hygiene, she became registrar in general medicine at the Royal Free, largely on the basis of her student record. It was an appointment without precedent, made, she later said, because she was "something of a whizz kid".

World war two found her working at the Elizabeth Garret Anderson hospital, in London, and then setting up an emergency clinical unit at St Albans. A trail of accidents and vacancies brought her to the Nuffield department of clinical medicine at Oxford, where, for the medical research council, she investigated the effects on workers of exposure to TNT in munitions factories, the effects of carbon tetrachloride, and the mysterious prevalence of tuberculosis among workers in the boot and shoe industry.

These studies revealed Stewart's brilliance in epidemiology and social medicine, and led, inevitably, to her involvement with the Oxford child health surveys, which had collected information on hundreds of thousands of children across Britain for 30 years.

Shortly after the war, she became involved in the Oxford child cancer studies. The incidence of child leukaemias was increasing in Britain at the time and, in 1955, it was suggested that there might be an environmental cause. Through analysis of the Oxford survey information, Stewart showed a clear connection between leukaemia before the age of 10 and the mother's exposure to x-rays during early pregnancy.

Resisted briefly by the medical profession, this finding later led to dramatic changes of practice. But it was aggressively opposed by many physicists and radiobiologists, by the committees of the international commission for radiation protection (ICRP), and by the powerful nuclear lobbies, within and outside government, that ICRP appeared to serve. The Oxford findings implied that low-level radiation - being imposed on nuclear workers and the public by fallout and nuclear-waste disposal - could be far more serious in its effects than had been officially admitted.

Stewart survived opposition and, already a professorial fellow at Lady Margaret Hall, Oxford, became director of the Nuffield institute of social medicine. Further analyses of the Oxford childhood cancer survey strengthened her initial findings. In the early 1970s, on the basis of these and other studies, she further infuriated the establishment by pointing out that, until the nature of radiation damage to genes was understood at the molecular level, predictions of second-generation and long-term genetic effects were premature.

While visiting the United States to discuss the Oxford survey findings in 1974, Stewart and her statistician, George Kneale, were invited by Professor TF Mancuso to become consultants on a major investigation he was directing for the US government into the health of nuclear workers at Hanford, the weapons complex that had produced plutonium for the Manhattan Project. Designed to parallel that of survivors of the Japanese A-bombs, this long-term study became known as the Hanford survey.

At that time, it was the largest of its kind into the long-term health effects of low-level radiation on workers in the nuclear industry. Since the industry was required by law to work within the exposure levels laid down by the ICRP, the study was seen as a test of these standards, as well as an investigation of worker health. The Stewart-Kneale analysis revealed roughly 10 times the cancer incidence predicted from A-bomb survivor studies.

An immediate and damning official outcry ensued. Mancuso was deprived of his directorship by the US government; the first full survey results were never published in their original form; and the use of outside consultants was promptly banned.

In spite of this, the Hanford survey, and Stewart's collaborative studies, continued. Information was added year by year, many of the early criticisms of the study were eliminated, and the findings, although modified, remained largely unchanged. They suggested adult sensitivity to radiation broadly in line with the findings of the Oxford child cancer survey - roughly 10 times the official figures.

Much of this work was carried out after Stewart's retirement from Oxford, when she became senior research fellow in the department of social medicine at Birmingham University. Her unit was housed in a caravan; she was deprived of research support from British sources; and, although her findings increasingly gathered approval elsewhere in the world, she and her work were subjected in Britain to professional isolation - and often to malicious, and unjustified, attacks.

However, grants continued to flow from the United States and elsewhere. With characteristic energy and brisk determination, Stewart commuted up the motorway year after year from her cottage in Oxfordshire to continue the study and reanalysis of the growing body of information. It was difficult, but she always smiled when asked why she went on when recognition eluded her in her own country. "Good people are seldom fully recognised during their lifetimes, and here, there are serious problems of corruption. One day it will be realised that my findings should have been acknowledged."

In her later years, because of official recalculation of radiation doses to the Japanese bomb survivors, she was able to nod knowingly as ICRP guidelines on permitted levels of radiation for the public were reduced by two thirds. New evidence of the highly localised molecular damage produced by radiation in genetic material also reinforced her findings of high sensitivity during foetal development and of second-generation effects.

Sitting in her cottage or, preferably, out in its leafy garden where, when they were young, her grandchildren would play before having tea with home-made jam, Stewart would reflect quietly that the world was beginning to learn. "Plants get all their energy from the sun and so should we," she would say. Then she would smile wistfully, for she knew how very long that learning curve might be.

She married her husband Ludovick in 1933; they divorced in the 1950s. She is survived by her daughter, a doctor in general practice; her son predeceased her.

· Alice Stewart, epidemiologist, born October 4 1906; died June 23 2002

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #209 on: April 27, 2012, 08:27:09 pm »
Re Chernobyl, which had it's 26 year anniversary yesterday.

http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_04_26/73023009/

Chernobyl tragedy: the last "gift" from the Soviet regime

Exactly 26 years ago there was an explosion at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant. Whole regions in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus have become unfit for life, and the number of victims has reached one million people today. And experts are still disputing about long-term consequences of the disaster.

During the seventy years of its existence the Soviet regime "presented" the rest of the mankind with a lot of problems namely the spread of the "red plague" throughout the world, including China, Vietnam and some countries of Africa and Latin America; and occupation of half of Europe alongside with planting socialist principles on these territories with the help of bayonets and tanks; and the invasion of Afghanistan for the purpose of promoting its "dogma" in the southern direction.

All these movements have cost the world enormous human, financial and moral losses.

And yet all these "gifts" were of an archaic nature, as if from the depths of centuries, when the defeat of an enemy was achieved through the seizure of his territory, or through the victory of your ideology (or religion). Therefore, the consequences of such actions were, first of all, finite, and, secondly, reparable. Meanwhile the Chernobyl catastrophe is an event of a different kind, if we regard it as a "gift" to the mankind from a decrepit regime.

First of all, two seemingly incompatible factors have joined each other: scientific-technical progress and intellectual helplessness. That is, the Chernobyl NPP (like dozens of others) was successfully built, but its safe operation turned out to be a daunting task for the sluggish Soviet bureaucratic system.

Secondly, it turned out that the habit of classifying the whole lot as secret for the sake of the country’s prestige can cause irreparable damage even without malicious intent.

I would like to remind you that the Soviet party leadership was concealing the information about the explosion throughout the whole week. As a result tens of thousands of unsuspecting people came out on May-Day demonstrations in Kiev, Minsk, Bryansk, and many other cities, exposing themselves to the risk of getting a serious dose of radiation.

In the absence of truthful information vague rumors caused an unprecedented panic; salt and matches were sold out in a flash, and the South-Western direction railway line came in a state of collapse because of the enormous number of refugees.

And, finally, the third distinguishing feature of the last "gift" of the Soviet regime is the fact that its consequences are endless and uncontrollable, and it is impossible to count the exact number of victims. Scientists are still arguing if the number of one million deaths is valid, but when such big numbers are taken into account, the one thing is absolutely clear - things are in a bad way. Besides, no one can count how many babies could not be born, and on the lives of how many subsequent generations this disaster will tell in the form of cancer.

It is also worth mentioning that, if on April 26, 26 years ago the wind in the Chernobyl area was a little stronger, then, depending on its direction, today either Moscow, or Scandinavia, or the Western Europe would be a desert.

A quarter of a century after the Chernobyl tragedy, an accident occurred in the Japanese Fukushima. This event caused a temptation to draw a parallel, the basic meaning of which is simple – such things happen not only in our country. From the formal point of view, it is true, but there are a few circumstances that make such a comparison incorrect.

The Fukushima reactor was damaged as a result of a terrible natural disaster; it did not explode because of the negligence and carelessness of those who were obliged to prevent it.

The Chernobyl accident has long been veiled in strict secrecy. Meanwhile the Fukushima events were literally happening in a live broadcast, which made it possible to mobilize not only the Japanese, but all the world’s forces and means on their localization and to prevent unnecessary losses.

And, finally, a difference in the government’s attitude to those who liquidated the consequences of the two accidents at the cost of their health is obvious.

Nevertheless serious differences between these disasters occurring with the difference of twenty-five years cannot serve as a consolation. Fukushima showed that Chernobyl has not served as a lesson to mankind - the nuclear energetic continues to develop, threatening the world with new troubles. Global security is sacrificed for the sake of efficiency, low prices and profit.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/167593/legacy-chernobyl

(Links at Nation article page to photos of children at Orphanage in Belarus - Warning that they may be distressing)


Twenty-six years after the meltdown at Chernobyl, the legacy of the 1986 explosion lives on.

"It is a disaster that left a 30-kilometre uninhabitable exclusion zone, displaced hundreds of thousands of people, and still threatens the lives of tens of thousands," writes Greenpeace today.

All these years and a triple meltdown at Fukushima later, the industry and its supporters have yet to learn.

"The nuclear industry still hasn't realized or admitted that its reactors are unsafe. Reactors are vulnerable to any unforeseen combination of technological failures, human errors and natural disasters. That puts the tens of millions of people living near the worlds more than 400 reactors at risk."  Write Greenpeace's Justin McKeating.

To get a sense of just what those tens of millions live at risk of, take a look at these photographs by award winning photographer Paul Fusco. Earlier this month I had a the honor of participating in the fourth Schuneman Symposium held at the Scripps School of Journalism at Ohio University. Among the speakers was Fusco, an extraordinary MAGNUM photographer who traveled to the Ukraine to see the legacy of Chernobyl after twenty years. Fusco expected to stay two weeks. He stayed for two months, following parents, children, nurses and cancer patients.

"It changed my life. I couldn't leave. It was so immense in its implications. There is so much damage to so many people in so many ways…" says Fusco.

Yet his extraordinary photographs, which you can see here in a short promotional slideshow, aren't printed in US papers. They're like his pictures of US military funerals, his current project, which is called Bitter Fruit. "The pictures are printed a lot in Europe. Never here," Fusco told the Scripps students. "Why do you think that is?"


Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #210 on: April 28, 2012, 08:26:01 pm »
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/editorials/radioactive-revelations-on-nuclear-plants-sound-a-warning-633299/
Radioactive: Revelations on nuclear plants sound a warning
April 27, 2012 5:44 am

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Like a dark family secret long suspected but never confirmed, the shock of discovery is all the more lurid for coming into the light years later. So it is with the news of radioactive material released into the air -- at levels higher than any seen in the nation -- at closed nuclear fuels plants in Armstrong County.

Incredulity feeds the first reaction: Surely this could not have happened. But apparently it did, according to good authority.

That would be Joseph P. Ring, a Harvard University radiation safety officer who teaches at Harvard and the University of Massachusetts. He wrote a 37-page report that was filed Tuesday as part of federal lawsuits brought against plant operators Babcock & Wilcox Co. and Atlantic Richfield Co. by about 90 cancer victims.

The plants operated in Apollo and Parks Township from 1958 through 1984. Mr. Ring found "numerous large-scale releases of ionizing radiation into the neighboring environment" during the operating lives of the plants. The emissions added up to "the largest quantity ... of any nuclear facility in the United States."

But putting dirty plants in neighborhoods -- something that should never have been done, Mr. King wrote -- was only one part of the equation. Worse yet, he cited internal documents that said the operators knew of the problems that began with faulty construction but never did enough to stop them.

These revelations are not news to those who live near the plants -- after all, they are the basis of the allegations in the lawsuits. Patricia Ameno, a plaintiff in a previous round of litigation, told Post-Gazette reporter Rich Lord that, due to health problems, "A lot of people have lost not only their entire savings but their homes." Families have been torn apart by illnesses and deaths, she said.

The lawsuits, brought by plant workers and neighbors in 2010, are before U.S. District Court Chief Judge Gary L. Lancaster, who will have the ultimate say on Mr. Ring's report and other expert opinions filed. But on the face of it, what happened at the old plant sites seems an outrage.

While the Apollo site has since been cleaned up, a lesson can be drawn. The nuclear industry -- which this newspaper has long supported -- doesn't lack for regulation, and indeed the Atomic Energy Commission and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission sometimes cited the facilities over the years. But apparently not enough.

That raises a larger point: We live at a time when conservative politicians are strongly pushing the idea that prosperity will come when free enterprise is allowed to operate unfettered by regulations -- as if the natural laws of human behavior have been repealed. To see how that might work out, a person need only go to Armstrong County and ask the people who live there.




Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #211 on: May 2, 2012, 09:11:45 pm »
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/02/the-low-level-radiation-puzzle/

The Low-Level Radiation Puzzle

The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists is casting new light – or maybe just heat — on the murky field of sizing up the health effects of small radiation doses.

The publication’s May-June issue carries seven articles and an editorial on the subject of low-dose radiation, a problem that has thus far defied scientific consensus but has assumed renewed importance since the meltdown of the Fukushima Daiichi reactors in Japan in March 2011. The accident contaminated the surrounding area, and questions persist about whether residents should be allowed to return or whether the radiation doses they would receive are too big a threat to their health.

The bulletin, known for its “doomsday clock” measuring the risk of nuclear war, pays attention to civilian nuclear power mostly in the context of whether the spread of reactor technology lays the groundwork for the spread of atomic bombs. But this month a guest editor, Jan Beyea, an environmental scientist who has opposed nuclear reactors for decades and worked on epidemiological studies at Three Mile Island, takes a hard look at the power industry.

The bulletin’s Web site is generally subscription-only, but this issue can be read at no charge.

Dr. Beyea challenges a concept adopted by American safety regulators about small doses of radiation. The prevailing theory is that the relationship between dose and effect is linear – that is, that if a big dose is bad for you, half that dose is half that bad, and a quarter of that dose is one-quarter as bad, and a millionth of that dose is one-millionth as bad, with no level being harmless.

The idea is known as the “linear no-threshold hypothesis,’’ and while most scientists say there is no way to measure its validity at the lower end, applying it constitutes a conservative approach to public safety.

Some radiation professionals disagree, arguing that there is no reason to protect against supposed effects that cannot be measured. But Dr. Beyea contends that small doses could actually be disproportionately worse.

Radiation experts have formed a consensus that if a given dose of radiation delivered over a short period poses a given hazard, that hazard will be smaller if the dose is spread out. To use an imprecise analogy, if swallowing an entire bottle of aspirin at one sitting could kill you, consuming it over a few days might merely make you sick.

In radiation studies, this is called a dose rate effectiveness factor. Generally, a spread-out dose is judged to be half as harmful as a dose given all at once.

Scientists postulate that a small “priming dose” might function like an inoculation for a virus, giving the body a chance to pump up its repair mechanisms so later doses have less of an effect.

Dr. Beyea, however, proposes that doses spread out over time might be more dangerous than doses given all at once. He suggests two reasons: first, some effects may result from genetic damage that manifests itself only after several generations of cells have been exposed, and, second, a “bystander effect,” in which a cell absorbs radiation and seems unhurt but communicates damage to a neighboring cell, which can lead to cancer. (this is exactly the hypothesis of Alice Stewart, referenced a few post above)

One problem in the radiation field is that little of the data on hand addresses the problem of protracted exposure. Most of the health data used to estimate the health effects of radiation exposure comes from survivors of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings of 1945. That was mostly a one-time exposure.

Scientists who say that this data leads to the underestimation of radiation risks cite another problem: it does not include some people who died from radiation exposure immediately after the bombings. The notion here is that the people studied in ensuing decades to learn about the dose effect may have been stronger and healthier, which could have played a role in their survival.

Still, the idea that the bomb survivor data is biased, or that stretched-out doses are more dangerous than instant ones, is a minority position among radiation scientists.

The article txts referenced above

Links from here http://bos.sagepub.com/content/current

http://bos.sagepub.com/content/68/3/10.full

Special issue on the risks of exposure to low-level radiation


Every time a release of radioactivity occurs, questions arise—not only about the true exposures, but also about the health risk at low doses. Predictably, debates unfold in the news media and galvanize social media networks. Sometimes these conversations enlighten the public, but often times they only exacerbate the confusion and fear about the significance and reality of exposure. Fukushima is the latest example of this warped communications strategy.

This special issue of the Bulletin examines what is new about the debate over radiation risk, specifically focusing on areas of agreement and disagreement, including quantitative estimates of cancer risk as a function of dose. In this issue, we don’t pretend to put the questions about the scientific jigsaw puzzle to rest, but we do hope to provide a sophisticated update for you, presented by people whose work has increased understanding within the field. For example, social scientist Paul Slovic updates his classic work on perception of radiation risk. Roger Kasperson, another social scientist, writes on the intriguing framework that he and colleagues developed about the social amplification of risk, which helps to explain public reactions to events like Fukushima and Chernobyl. By implication, Kasperson’s analysis raises a challenge for those who communicate risk information, whether professionally or informally. To provide information needed in a democracy, these communicators may amplify risks to the point where needless fear is generated, or they may attenuate the risks to a degree that desirable responses are avoided.

Today, the scientific and medical establishment of most countries (with the exception of France, where the public strongly supports nuclear power) accepts a default hypothesis on the effects of radiation at doses below the range where epidemiologic data are conclusive. This is the so-called linear non-threshold theory (LNT), which the review committee of the US Institute of Medicine and the National Academy of Scientists refers to in these words: "A comprehensive review of the biology data led the committee to conclude that the risk would continue in a linear fashion at lower doses without a threshold and that the smallest dose has the potential to cause a small increase in risk to humans. (National Research Council, 2006)"

Radiation protection organizations, such as the International Commission on Radiation Protection, also use the LNT to justify minimizing future exposures; however, they have a tendency to focus on the uncertainties of the hypothesis and oppose its use to estimate consequences from releases such as Fukushima and Chernobyl—no doubt out of concern that such estimates may amplify the perception of risk. Whether or not avoiding predictions of low-dose consequences really attenuates risk perception or, in fact, amplifies it by increasing public suspicion about a cover-up is an interesting question. Technical and policy analyst Gordon Thompson, in his contribution to this issue of the Bulletin, discusses some aspects of this dilemma from the perspective of a scientist who often works with community groups.

Whatever the use of the LNT, the data from the one-time exposures of the Japanese atomic-bomb survivors provide most of the quantitative data on the linear slope, meaning the magnitude of the dose response. Epidemiologist David Richardson, whose work with these data has provided much new information about risks of low-dose radiation, writes on the history of this most important studied population, discussing its strengths and limitations. Radiobiologist Colin Hill examines some of the new biological research, particularly, on genomic instability, bystander effects, and adaptive response—effects that may lead to a better understanding of responses at very low doses and may help quantify any deviations from the LNT. An important question is whether or not any of the epidemiologic evidence has been interpreted properly. Answering no to that question is biostatistician Sander Greenland, who writes that misleading interpretations of low-dose epidemiologic data result in an underestimate of the full health impacts, because of failure to account for diseases with accelerated onsets.

Quantitative perspectives on risk at low doses have changed dramatically over the last 40 years, back when I first engaged in public debates on the subject. Has it made any difference outside political campaigns and in the culture wars? In particular, how do quantitative risk estimates affect rules and regulations? Terry Brock and Sami Sherbini from the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission examine the role that risk estimates of health effects play in regulating nuclear power in the United States.

In my own contribution to this special issue, I survey data, arguments, and debates surrounding low-level radiation risks. Historically—in the absence of human epidemiologic data—biologic arguments and cell data, fiercely debated, were used to convert risk estimates derived from the atomic-bomb data to protracted exposures. My article explores the new, large-scale epidemiologic studies that are directly relevant—not to one-time exposures received at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but to the protracted exposures that are received from continuous decay of radioactive isotopes associated with releases from Fukushima or from the Soviet and US weapons complexes.

I also analyze contrasting data that suggest that dose responses might be higher or lower than predicted by the LNT. Some researchers believe that the dose response is higher than the LNT at low doses (supralinear response), while others maintain the dose response drops rapidly below the range covered by epidemiologic data (quasi-threshold); both groups can find some support in recent epidemiologic studies demonstrating the complexity of the scientific jigsaw puzzle that researchers face. There are other researchers who believe that the dose response turns around at some point as dose is decreased, actually reducing the risk of cancer (hormesis theory); this evidence can be found in data collected from home radon measurements correlated to county lung-cancer rates—albeit in contradiction to more standard epidemiologic studies of the same association, which do show the expected dose response.

If our efforts in this issue of the Bulletin are successful, the reader will be ready to join the debate armed with a broad-based view of the epidemiologic evidence and its differing interpretations, along with an awareness of the stakeholder and researcher landscape.

Offline CB

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #212 on: May 6, 2012, 08:25:44 pm »
Even the simple vote on this topic says that 58% believe it is safe
Milan nel incubo!

E grazie a Dio che non sono Laziale!

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #213 on: May 30, 2012, 07:22:23 am »

http://envirobeat.com/?p=4103

Vandana Shiva Releases National Appeal against Koodankulam Nuclear Reactor Project and Interview

May 20, 2012, New Delhi

Vandana Shiva released a statement at India Gate in New Delhi in solidarity with activists protesting against plans to build nuclear reactors in Koodankulam, Tamil Nadu, India. See the complete text of the National Appeal.

Statement by Vandana Shiva:
“I’m also here for solidarity with one of the most significant struggles for the future of democracy in India. I want to salute the people of Koodankulam who haven’t given up in spite of all the terror attacks on them from what has become a militarized state. A very interesting new article has been published in The Economist, which is not a people’s magazine, it’s a corporate magazine. And The Economist says, increasingly nuclear power will become less and less a creature of democracy.”

“And that is why India’s democratic fabric is being assaulted in order to impose nuclear power. The very agreement that has given licence to spread nuclear was an undemocratic agreement that nearly killed our parliament, the U.S. India nuclear deal. And if it wasn’t for purchase of votes, the cash for votes scandal, that agreement wouldn’t have gone through. We then had the Civil Nuclear Liability Act, which pays the costs of liability in case of an accident so that industry can walk away for free like they did after the Bopal disaster.”


“I believe Koodankulam is significant for many reasons. For some sad perverse reason, our government is making a choice for the most backward, most primitive, most hazardous and most crude technologies in every sphere.”

“Energy, we have so much more sophisticated alternatives from renewables, whether it’s biomass, decentralized – Ghandi chose it – wind solar, it wasn’t there in his time. They’re picking nuclear which every country is giving up. Germany stopped it because their people said after Fukushima we don’t want nuclear. And nobody needs any more evidence that this is a dangerous technology than Fukushima. Germany stopped, Italy stopped. France will stop, the country that is highest nuclear power plants, is going to stop under the new President François Hollande. Brazil has announced it won’t go further. Japan has said no more. If every democratic enlightened technologically advanced country is saying no to nuclear, why is India picking this backward technology?”


“In agriculture they are picking the worst option. They have agro-ecology, we have organic, they are picking genetic engineering. And worse, when people with intelligence, information, freedom, rise to educate the government about their rights, and the rights for safety, only the government can say is, this is the foreign hand, when the real foreign hand is Monsanto behind GMOs. And the global nuclear industry behind the nuclear power plants.”

“Sadly our public sector is always there as the face to bring it all in, to make it look like it’s in the national interest. I started my life in the Bhabha Atomic Research Institute. It used to be public sector then, it is no more. Everywhere nuclear is being shut down, we are giving them a red carpet. On our money, they are imposing hazards on us. It’s a double violation of democracy. Because it’s our money that’s being used to build these plants against our will. I really do believe that the assault on democracy that we are seeing in Koodankulam is something that is so serious, that if we don’t stop them here they will do this on every issue everywhere. No citizen will be safe in their home, in their village, in their town.”

“And that is why this appeal to all of you – not to government – to each of us to raise our conscience, to wake ourselves up, to say this country got its freedom with a very long struggle that was nonviolent. That is the path that the Koodankulam activists are following. That’s the path we have a right and a duty to continue following.”

“And to the government I want to say: don’t send psychiatrists along with police. There’s nothing wrong with the people who know about the hazards. If there is an insanity it is at the level of Delhi, and if we need psychiatrists let Nimhans [National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Sciences] come and see why is the mind of the official India gone so bezerk that they cannot make a single sane decision about the future of this country. “


“And so all strength to the people of Koodankulam, and to those who think nuclear is not their business, take this home – read it.”


Brief Interview – Questions and Answers
Q: “A lot of people propose nuclear power and a solution for climate change, and a lot of people say it is a false solution. And since you’re here I assume you think it’s a false solution as well. What solutions do you like for climate change?”
Vandana Shiva: “Well, the first solution I like for climate change is organic farming. Because I’ve done a book called Soil Not Oil that shows that 40% of emissions comes from industrialized globalized agriculture. The nitrogen oxide, the methane from factory farms, and fossil fuel use. So you can cut 40% by doing good farming the feeds the world, protects the soil, and creates livelihoods.”

“My second preferred solution is renewable energies, decentralized renewable energies, of which there is no dearth. We have far more wind and far more sun than we have uranium. And it is crazy to build an energy plan on an exhaustible resource which exhausts but leaves an inexhaustible waste.”

“My third solution is not to push people out of their homes. Leave them where they have livelihoods. Don’t push the tribals out of their forest. Don’t push the peasants off the land. You’ve got a solution to climate change. You push everyone into a city, you push the poor out two hours away. You’re going to have huge amounts of fossil fuel used just to move people around.”

“So redesigning agriculture, redesigning energy, and redesigning the relation between the rural and urban, you solve the problem and improve society.”

Q: “Could you say anything about the relation between nuclear weapons and nuclear power?”
Vandana Shiva: “Nuclear power started in weaponry. It was designed for war. And any instrument that has its origins in war always has the potential for war.First because the material you need to make bombs, you’re multiplying it though nuclear power, you’re taking uranium and turn it into plutonium. Second by equipping governments and private companies with this potential, in society you spread this potential, that here is a weapon of mass destruction available.”

“This is exactly what happened with fertilizers. Chemical fertilizers came from explosive factories are increasingly used in terrorist attacks. In Delhi in the high court, in Mumbai, in Afganistan. Most of the bomb explosions are from fertilizer bombs. And if a harmless thing called fertilizer can become so lethal, why would nuclear power stay in safe hands, when even in safe hands it is not safe.”

Q: “And Fukushima we had an accident that was unexpected…”
Vandana Shiva: “Fukushima happened in a country which is probably the most rigorous, in terms of technology, in terms of scientific care, in terms of an accountability system. And if it can happen in Japan, Fukushima’s can happen anywhere.”

“The point about nuclear is that accidents don’t happen in any nuclear power plant because of the calculation about your fission material. They happen become a generator stops. They happen because a cooling tower stops. They happen because of small mechanical failures which you can’t predict.”

“But in the case of nuclear, which is a stupid technology because all you’re doing is creating fissionable material, creating radioactive material, using radioactive material, to boil water. The power doesn’t come from nuclear, the power comes from the water. Now there are safer ways to boil water.”

Q: “Who is going to defend that nuclear waste for all those thousands of years?”
Vandana Shiva: “Now the point is, a government that is not able to take care of plastic waste, we have mountains of plastic waste, which is itself destructive to health and the environment, they will keep nuclear waste in the same way. And it has happened, nuclear waste was found, nuclear material was found in a recycling market in Delhi. …if they can’t take care of any kind of waste disposal, they will not take care of nuclear waste disposal.”

Q: “This is a question about the politics – how many people is it going to take to influence policy, is there hope here?”
Vandana Shiva: “One thing is for sure, even conventional elections will be a safety net at this point. Just a change in power to undo the commitments this present government has made. And it won’t be the best of governments, but at least it’ll be a different one. And that’s why the 2014 elections are vital.”

“An Urgent Appeal to the Conscience of the Nation on Koodankulam” – Text of Statement Released by Vandana Shiva at India Gate

Here is the text of the statement submitted by Vandana Shiva at India Gate in New Delhi. It was also submitted in Mumbai and Kolkata on the same day. The statement can also be found and signed at http://www.dianuke.org/urgent-nationa-appeal-koodankulam/

   
Quote
Dear Fellow Citizens of India,

    On the occasion of our Parliament, the pinnacle of democratic governance, celebrating its 60th anniversary, our hard earned democracy is being ruthlessly repressed and violently suppressed. Within the accelerated race towards ‘destructive development’ and the generation of nuclear power to fuel such ‘development,’ entirely peaceful mass protests voicing people’s legitimate dissent are brutally put down. The common man, woman and child are unheard. In utter desperation, people in Koodankulam have surrendered their ‘Voter ID cards,’ the ultimate symbol of ‘people’s power,’ which is the essence of any genuine democracy. Can there be a more ominous way to dissent?

Much like the recent anti-corruption upsurge, various actions for social, gender and ecological justice and other struggles in various parts of the country to safeguard people’s rights for their lives, dignity, resources, and livelihoods, the people’s movement in Koodankulam demanding a safe future is facing callous repression from the government and continued apathy. Disappointingly, our mainstream media also persists in under-reporting this genuinely popular movement.
Demonstrator
Demonstrator against nuclear power plans in Koodankulam

People in Idinthakarai village had to end their 14-day long fast this week. It is appalling that nobody from the Tamil Nadu, or Central Government came to speak to them, and that police strength in the area has been intensified, with every possible intimidating tactic –including taking away the food ration cards of agitating villagers.

We appeal to you in a state of urgency and desperation.

The debate on India’s energy future is far from settled. We will need broader consensus and greater persuasion to ensure that India opts for the safest, most sustainable people-centric energy future.

The reactor project in Koodankulam perpetrates too many unacceptable violations of norms and procedures. The agitating people are peacefully and persistently trying to raise several important questions – both site-specific and generic with regard to nuclear power – through all possible forums. Many independent experts and scientists have already emphasized the various dangers of going ahead with the Koodankulam reactors.

At this critical juncture, we urge that realizing a wider consultation is necessary before continuing the large-scale nuclear expansion that this government is already deeply engaged in.

We entreat you to demand that the government immediately stop intimidating and harassing peaceful protesters.

It is imperative that we immediately unite by raising our voices to defend democracy and the ethos of our country. Unacceptable precedents like the outright repression and silencing of the Koodankulam people’s movement will have adverse implications for all future individual and collective struggles.

With best regards,

(partial signature list)
1. Prashant Bhushan, 2. Vandana Shiva, 3. Partha Chatterjee, 4. Admiral L. Ramdas, 5. Lalita Ramdas, 6. Surendra Gadekar, 7. Sanghamitra Gadekar, 8. Narayan Desai, 9. Anand Patwardhan, 10. M G Devasahayam, etc. etc.

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #214 on: May 30, 2012, 08:30:30 am »
Haven't Germany stopped their plans for getting rid of nuclear because they realised that living in the dark wasn't really all that much fun?

Besides which, their big plan was to give up their own nukes and buy power from overwhelmingly nuke using France, the hypocritical tossers.
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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #215 on: May 30, 2012, 06:16:15 pm »
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sellafield-needs-extra-276-million-of-taxpayers-money-to-complete-uks-biggest-nuclear-construction-project-7804779.html

The company in charge of running Britain’s nuclear reprocessing operation at Sellafield in Cumbria said today that it needs an extra Ł276 million of taxpayer’s money to complete the single biggest nuclear construction project in the UK.

Sellafield Ltd said that the final costs of building the Evaporator D complex to handle Britain’s liquid nuclear waste will need to be increased from Ł397m to between Ł599m and Ł673m. This is more than six times the original estimate for the project.


Sellafield Ltd also said that the schedule for completing the enormous project, which involved the construction of 11 house-sized modules on Merseyside and shipping them to Cumbria, has slipped to February 2016, six years later than originally planned.

The extra costs of completing the project will wipe out the company’s efficiency savings of Ł182m and come on top of the Ł1.34 billion  :o wasted on the Sellafield Mox Plant, the troubled nuclear fuel plant that had to be closed last year in the aftermath of the Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan.


Evaporator D was originally planned to cost about Ł100m and was supposed to be completed by 2010 to replace the three existing evaporators at Sellafield, which reduce the amount of liquid nuclear waste by allowing the evaporation of water.

The delayed completion date of 2016 for Evaporator D threatens to disrupt the operating timetable of Sellafield’s Thermal Oxide Reprocessing Plant (Thorp), which is scheduled for closure in 2018 and lies at the heart of the site’s massive reprocessing operation.

Many tens of millions of pounds extra will have to be spent on Thorp if Sellafield was forced to keep it operating longer than planned, according to some industry observers. However, Sellafield has insisted that its reprocessing operation is still on schedule despite the delays in finishing Evaporator D.

Following a major review of the Evaporator D project, Sellafield Ltd said that it needs the extra cash to complete the construction and will seek formal approval from the Government and the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority (NDA), which is the legal owner of the site.

“Following the completion of our review into the project we now have a firm understanding of the issues the project has faced and a clear understanding of how they can be rectified,” Sellafield Ltd said in a statement released last night.

“We have learned from this experience and we are actively addressing lessons for Sellafield Ltd and the supply chain,”
  :lmao  it added.

The NDA said that the request for more funds to complete Evaporator D will now go through formal governance processes, including Government approval, before it can endorse the new budget and the revised delivery schedule.

“The NDA continues to closely monitor performance at Sellafield and hold our contractors to account as necessary,” the NDA said in a statement.

“Any increase in costs attributable to Evaporator D will have to be managed within the existing Comprehensive Spending Review settlement, and as such there will be no additional calls on the public purse. The work programmes detailed in the Sellafield Plan remain fully funded,
”  ;) it added.

The NDA said that a number of “strategic initiatives” and efficiency savings, such as the clean-up of the Dounreay nuclear plant in Scotland, have enabled it to save more than Ł2.6bn of taxpayer’s money over recent years. (Huzzah! Less enormous taxpayer bailouts and subsidies required!)

British Nuclear Energy. Socialized costs and Privatized profits. Public energy money down the drain.

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #216 on: May 31, 2012, 11:56:41 pm »
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/23/world/europe/british-energy-plan-would-add-nuclear-plants.html

Britain Says It Will Add Reactors for Energy

Britain announced plans Tuesday to finance a new generation of nuclear power plants and renewable energy facilities, in a move that illustrates the differences in energy policies among European Union countries as the bloc grapples with the challenge of reconciling economic and environmental objectives.

While Germany intends to phase out nuclear power, and France’s new president, François Hollande, says he hopes to reduce his country’s reliance on it, the British government appears to be moving in the opposite direction with its proposals, which are intended to attract $175 billion in investment to build new reactors and renewable energy plants.

The 27-member European Union sets climate change targets and coordinates efforts to reduce energy dependency, but decisions on energy sources remain with national governments.

Britain’s proposals, announced in draft legislation by the Department of Energy and Climate Change, appear to be calculated to sidestep European Union restrictions on government aid that might prevent direct subsidies for the construction of nuclear power plants. Instead, they would guarantee prices for low-carbon electricity and pay producers for backup supplies when renewable sources like wind power fail to meet demand.

Britain hopes that this guaranteed price, to be paid by businesses and consumers, will secure the financial commitment from energy utilities to construct nuclear reactors and clean-power projects needed to meet European targets and reduce Britain’s reliance on natural gas plants.

Recent developments suggest that it could be a tough battle. In March, Britain’s nuclear program suffered a serious setback when two German companies, RWE and E.On, announced they would not proceed with a Ł15 billion, or roughly $24 billion, joint venture in Gloucester, blaming the economic crisis and arguing that the German government’s plan to phase out nuclear power had put additional pressure on their balance sheets.

To add to the difficulties, the main architect of Britain’s energy policy, Chris Huhne, quit the government in February to fight charges stemming from a speeding offense in 2003.

His successor, Edward Davey, said Tuesday that the new plans were in the national interest and would support as many as 250,000 jobs.

“By reforming the market, we can ensure security of supply for the long term, reduce the volatility of energy bills by reducing our reliance on imported gas and oil, and meet our climate change goals by largely decarbonizing the power sector during the 2030s,” Mr. Davey said in a statement.

The proposals have intensified debate over the cost and safety of nuclear power after the Fukushima disaster in Japan and the decisions by Germany and by Switzerland, which is not in the European Union, to phase out nuclear reactors.

During the recent presidential election campaign, Mr. Hollande suggested reducing France’s dependence on nuclear power to around 50 percent from 75 percent and shutting 24 of the country’s 58 reactors by 2025.

Critics attacked Britain’s determination to renew its nuclear capacity. “This proposal has distorted policy in order to try to disguise the massive subsidies nuclear will need, but they remain so huge that the policy will fail anyway,” said Tom Burke, a former environmental campaigner and visiting professor at Imperial and University Colleges, London.

Industry reaction was far from euphoric. In a statement, Volker Beckers, chief executive of Npower, RWE’s British operation, said the required investment would amount to around Ł8,000, about $12,600, for every household in Britain.
(more tax subsidies to prop up an economically failed industry)

“I remain concerned by the amount of change being implemented in the energy sector and the time it is taking,” Mr. Beckers said. “I applaud government’s appetite for reform, but pulling so many levers at once in such a complex area risks losing sight of your original objectives. What the energy sector needs now is simplicity and clarity.”


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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #217 on: June 1, 2012, 08:38:32 am »
About time we made a commitment to spending the money needed. Don't give a shit how much money the industry makes or doesn't, the alternative of living without heat and light in the North Atlantic doesn't seem like all that much fun.
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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #218 on: June 1, 2012, 11:14:34 pm »
Just to highlight a few british nuclear governance and stewardship issues.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/apr/23/paulbrown

    The Guardian, Thursday 22 April 1999 20.59 EDT

More than a third of the plutonium pumped into the Irish Sea from Sellafield nuclear plant in Cumbria over the past 40 years is missing, scientists working for the ministry of agriculture have disclosed.

Since a tiny speck of plutonium inhaled is enough to trigger cancer, scientists are anxious to explain the disappearance of more than 60kg, which they had expected to find in sea sediments.


A research project lasting years and taking samples all over the Irish Sea and beyond, should have enabled scientists to plot the distribution of plutonium and americium, a radioactive particle that plutonium changes into when it decays. About 40% of the americium was missing too.

Environment and anti-nuclear groups were alarmed at the news yesterday. They have long been concerned that the plutonium dust washed inshore, and dried as the tide goes out, blows inland and is potentially a cause of cancer and birth-defect clusters along the Irish Sea coastline. Other government researchers are investigating the claim that people living on the coast in north Wales are far more likely to contract cancer that those living inland.

Although government scientists have long been able to trace plutonium spreading south and north from Sellafield, it was never in sufficient quantities to explain the missing radioactivity. Currents take plutonium up the Scottish coast and round the coast of Norway to the North Sea. Some of it washes up on the coasts of our European neighbours and some travels further north up the Norwegian coast to the Barents Sea and the Arctic.

Den Woodhead, one of three scientists in charge of the work said: 'It is puzzling that there should be so much missing. From the scientific point of view we want to understand the behaviour of plutonium in the environment, but we are also concerned that we may have missed some pathway where this stuff may accumulate. We need to find it.'

Dr Woodhead believes the most likely explanation is that over the years the shifting sands under the seas have buried much of the plutonium at depths which the monitoring equipment does not reach. Where the bottom is mud, the lowest parts of the cores contain no radioactivity, but in sand the plutonium may sink further into the sea bed.

The most likely areas for deep sinking to have happened are in the Solway Firth and at Morecambe Sands where the channels are constantly shifting and plutonium could be buried in the sediments.

Dr Woodhead believes that there is unlikely to be a danger to humans from the missing plutonium because the ministry regularly monitors foodstuffs, particularly shellfish, to make sure intake is below the permitted threshold. Only a tiny amount of plutonium would blow inshore in the form of dust, he said.

Dudley Goodhead, director of the Medical Research Council's radiation and genome stability unit at Harwell, Oxfordshire, said plutonium and americium were dangerous in small particles. Diluting them would spread the risk more widely.

Martin Forwood, from Cumbrians Opposed to a Radioactive Environment said: 'We have long believed that the most serious threat from these discharges is sediment washed up with the storms and tides and then blown inland as it turns to dust. It is even more frightening that such a large quantity is lost.'

Helen Wallace, of Greenpeace, said: 'The government allows British Nuclear Fuels to pour 8m litres of nuclear waste contaminated water into the sea every day but it does not know what happens to it.'

http://www.corecumbria.co.uk/tour/irishsea.htm

Irish Sea

Sellafield discharges two million gallons of radioactive water into the Irish Sea every day at high tide. This includes a cocktail of over 30 alpha, beta and gamma radionuclides. BNFL admits that radioactive discharges in the 1970’s were 100 times those of today. As a result of these discharges, which include around half a tonne of plutonium, the Irish Sea has become the most radioactively contaminated sea in the world. Caesium-137 and Iodine-129 from Sellafield have spread through the Arctic Ocean into the waters of northern Canada and are having a bigger impact on the Arctic than the Chernobyl accident. Sellafield’s gas discharges of Krypton can be measured in Miami.

The guinea pigs in a ‘deliberate scientific experiment’ to find out levels of contamination in the food chain, were the Cumbrian people and their environment. Claiming then that the radioactive materials discharged from the 2km pipeline would dilute and disperse into the wider oceans, the industry clearly got it wrong, with high levels of radioactive discharge material washed ashore and trapped in the coastal sands and sediments.

A leading government-backed scientist from East Anglia University discovered that plutonium particles, concentrated in waves breaking on the shore, was being blown over West Cumbria, as far as 37 miles inland.This was confirmed by analysis of vacuum cleaner house dust samples taken up and down the coast by a National Radiological Protection Board investigation.

That Sellafield plutonium gets everywhere was shown in post-mortem examinations of former Sellafield workers. Concentrations of hundreds and in one case thousands of times higher than in the general population were found. Cumbrians who never worked at the plant had plutonium levels ranging from 50% to 250% above the average compared to elsewhere in Britain. Atomic Energy Authority scientist, Prof. Nick Priest, studied the teeth of over 3000 young people throughout Britain and Ireland. He found traces of Sellafield plutonium in varying doses, the highest doses being closest to Sellafield.

Greenpeace off the end of Sellafield Discharge Pipe 1998.
   In November 1983 a team of Greenpeace divers tried to block the Sellafield underwater discharge pipe. When they emerged from the water, their Geiger counters revealed that they were seriously contaminated. It was only when they publicised this fact that BNFL admitted to having problems with their radioactive discharges and that a tankfull of ‘radioactive crud’ had been flushed out to sea. As radioactive flotsam was being washed ashore, posing a danger to health, the Department of the Environment effectively closed the beach and warned the public not to use the fifteen-mile stretch of shoreline north and south of Sellafield. This advice stayed in force for a full six months. In June 1985 BNFL faced a three-day trial, was found guilty and fined Ł10,000.

BNFL’s own environmental monitoring figures for the first quarter of 1997 revealed alarmingly raised levels of Technetium 99 in seaweed samples from the West Cumbrian coast. A Tc-99 level of 180,000 Bq/Kg in seaweed was sampled from Drigg, just south of the plant. This compared to a level of 71,000 Bq/Kg sampled in the previous quarter and to a level of just 800 Bq/Kg in 1992. Via the food chain Tc-99 is now found in duck eggs, and the use of locally harvested seaweed as a garden fertiliser has led to the discovery of Tc-99 in locally grown spinach. Irish Sea lobster have shown a similar alarming rise from 210 Bq/Kg in 1993 to 52,000 Bq/Kg in 1997 – over 40 times the EU Food Intervention Level set as a safety level for foodstuffs contaminated following a nuclear accident. Raised levels of Tc-99 were subsequently found in Norwegian lobsters.

A wide range of fish, shellfish and molluscs continue to show varying degrees of radioactive contamination from Sellafield’s discharges.


http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/nuclear/sellafield-nuclear-reprocessing-facility

The Sellafield nuclear complex is situated on the coast of Cumbria in northwest Britain. Originally named Windscale with the purpose of producing plutonium for the British nuclear weapons program, it then became a commercial operation with reprocessing facilities, fuel fabrication and other installations, operated by British Nuclear Fuels Ltd (BNFL). In April 2005 ownership switched to the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority, but, at least for the time being, BNFL still operates the site as a contractor.

Sellafield has a very bad safety record with hundreds of more or less severe accidents involving the release of radioactive substances into the environment and the irradiation of workers and equipment. As a result, some 60 percent of the buildings have to be classed as nuclear waste.

The Sellafield site has the highest concentration of radioactivity on the planet. An accident involving the liquid high level waste tanks would have catastrophic consequences and make the area uninhabitable for a long time.

The reprocessing plants discharge some eight million litres of nuclear waste into the sea each day. The radioactivity contaminates seawater, sediments and marine life such as winkles and lobsters. The Irish Sea is the most radioactively contaminated sea in the world.

In the vicinity of the complex, groundwater, estuaries and soil are contaminated. Compared to the British average, there has been a ten-fold increase of childhood leukaemia around Sellafield. Plutonium dust has been found in the houses of residents living along the Irish Sea coast.

Before the NDA took over, British Nuclear Fuels Ltd became notorious for mismanagement, cover-ups and lies. They have exceeded discharge limits, ignored safety regulations and falsified data on numerous occasions.


Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #219 on: June 1, 2012, 11:29:54 pm »
http://www.llrc.org/health/subtopic/child_leuk_wales.htm

See link - won't correctly copy across due to formatting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/after-26-years-farms-emerge-from-the-cloud-of-chernobyl-7811615.html

After 26 years, farms emerge from the cloud of Chernobyl

When nuclear rain swept the UK in the aftermath of the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, farmers saw their livelihoods and even their families threatened. Some 9,700 farms and four million sheep were placed under restriction as radiocaesium- 137 seeped into the upland soils of England, Scotland and Wales.

Twenty-six years after the explosions at Reactor Four, restrictions remained on 334 farms in North Wales, and eight in Cumbria. But as of today, the Food Standards Agency (FSA) regulationsonthese farms were lifted, giving long-suffering livestock owners cause for celebration.

“We can now move our sheep freely, and we can sell our lambs at whatever time we want. Before, government officials would have to see the lambs and if they were over 1,000 Becquerel per kilo you wouldn’t be able to sell them. Now we can sell them at the best price,” said Mr Roberts, deputy president of the Farmers’ Union of Wales.

Before today, any livestock for breeding or sale had to be assessed with gamma monitors by officials from Defra or the Welsh government. Sheep found to exceed the legal radiation dose were moved to the lowlands before sale, and had the farmers wanted to move their flock, they had to seek permission.

One farmer, who wished to remain anonymous, explained the financial difficulty: “If you heard on a Monday that prices for lambs in the market on Tuesday were going to be sky high, you couldn’t go and sell them,” he said. “You always had to plan ahead, so we were losing money.”

Mr Roberts added: “It was an extra layer of bureaucracy on top of the bureaucratic industry conditions at the moment.”He welcomed the change as a“positive move in terms of consumer confidence in the Welsh lamb”.

The FSA said the restrictions had been lifted because “the current controls are no longer proportionate to the very low risk”. No sheep in Cumbria have failed the monitoring criteria for several years, and less than 0.5 per cent of the 75,000 sheep monitored annually in North Wales fail. Even the majority of sheep that do are unlikely to pose a threat to the consumer.

But there are dissenting voices. The anonymous farmer, who boasts a flock of 1,000 ewes, said: “The feeling I have is that it should still be in place. The food should be kept safe.”

The FSA’s report suggests farmers were concerned about the public’s perception of meat entering the food chain with high levels of radiation.

The farmers will lose the Ł1.30 they receive for each monitored animal, though their recompense has not changed in 26 years. Despite a likely cost of Ł325,000 to the farmers in losing this benefit, one claimed it was a “pittance” they could happily do without.

A National Farmers Union Cymru spokesman said: “Consumers of sheep meat can be confident that the removal of these remaining controls does not in any way compromise food safety.”

Radioactive Cesium has a half life of 30 years (Chernobyl was 1986 - 24 yr ago) and bio-accumulates in muscle tissue, mimicking potassium. But the FSA have said these heavily contaminated farm's animals are now 'safe' to eat.

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #220 on: June 1, 2012, 11:34:09 pm »
Helen Caldicott's Oscar winning lecture-docu from 1982 'If you Love this Planet'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC4f1zXJz2Y part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwRWumRG-MU&feature=relmfu part 2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_You_Love_This_Planet

Quote
If You Love This Planet is a 1982 short documentary film recording a lecture given to SUNY Plattsburgh students by physician and anti-nuclear activist Dr. Helen Caldicott about the dangers posed by nuclear weapons. The movie was directed by Terre Nash and produced by Edward Le Lorrain for Studio D, the women's studio of the National Film Board of Canada. Studio D head Kathleen Shannon was executive producer.

Released during the term of the Reagan administration and at the height[citation needed] of Cold War nuclear tensions between the United States and the Soviet Union, If You Love This Planet was officially designated as "foreign political propaganda" by the U.S. Department of Justice and suppressed in the United States.[1] The subsequent uproar over that action gave the film a publicity boost; it went on to win the 1982 Academy Award for Documentary Short Subject.[2] It appears that the first cinema showing of the film in Britain did not occur until April 2008, when it was screened by the London Socialist Film Co-op.[3] (Communist yogurt knitting hipsters)

Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #221 on: June 2, 2012, 07:34:59 am »
Helen Wallace, of Greenpeace, said: 'The government allows British Nuclear Fuels to pour 8m litres of nuclear waste contaminated water into the sea every day but it does not know what happens to it.'

It's interesting the bits of the article that you chose to highlight, isn't it? For example you highlight this bit that sounds really, really bad but not the bit where the scientist says that there's probably no danger to humans because food is monitored to ensure it isn't affected by radiation and the amount that would blow ashore would be minute.

Then in the other article

But there are dissenting voices. The anonymous farmer, who boasts a flock of 1,000 ewes, said: “The feeling I have is that it should still be in place. The food should be kept safe.”

I mean, not that I want to cast doubt on the nuclear physics or medical qualifications held by a Welsh sheep farmer, but I assume he's never going to disturb the good people at Nobel?
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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #222 on: June 3, 2012, 07:52:10 pm »
BDL, I refer you back to this.

Just for you (as an atomic optimist):

Ann Coulter: ..'radiation in excess of what the governments say are the minimum amount you should be exposed to, is good for you'..

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/FXFUUGeV1DI?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/FXFUUGeV1DI?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0</a>

Of course, as much as I trust the Fox delivered reassurance, that radiation is in fact beneficial, I'm still a little bit skeptical.

Just for balance, Alice Mary Stewart

Quote
These studies revealed Stewart's brilliance in epidemiology and social medicine, and led, inevitably, to her involvement with the Oxford child health surveys, which had collected information on hundreds of thousands of children across Britain for 30 years.

Shortly after the war, she became involved in the Oxford child cancer studies. The incidence of child leukaemias was increasing in Britain at the time and, in 1955, it was suggested that there might be an environmental cause. Through analysis of the Oxford survey information, Stewart showed a clear connection between leukaemia before the age of 10 and the mother's exposure to x-rays during early pregnancy.

Resisted briefly by the medical profession, this finding later led to dramatic changes of practice. But it was aggressively opposed by many physicists and radiobiologists, by the committees of the international commission for radiation protection (ICRP), and by the powerful nuclear lobbies, within and outside government, that ICRP appeared to serve. The Oxford findings implied that low-level radiation - being imposed on nuclear workers and the public by fallout and nuclear-waste disposal - could be far more serious in its effects than had been officially admitted.

Stewart survived opposition and, already a professorial fellow at Lady Margaret Hall, Oxford, became director of the Nuffield institute of social medicine. Further analyses of the Oxford childhood cancer survey strengthened her initial findings. In the early 1970s, on the basis of these and other studies, she further infuriated the establishment by pointing out that, until the nature of radiation damage to genes was understood at the molecular level, predictions of second-generation and long-term genetic effects were premature.

While visiting the United States to discuss the Oxford survey findings in 1974, Stewart and her statistician, George Kneale, were invited by Professor TF Mancuso to become consultants on a major investigation he was directing for the US government into the health of nuclear workers at Hanford, the weapons complex that had produced plutonium for the Manhattan Project. Designed to parallel that of survivors of the Japanese A-bombs, this long-term study became known as the Hanford survey.

At that time, it was the largest of its kind into the long-term health effects of low-level radiation on workers in the nuclear industry. Since the industry was required by law to work within the exposure levels laid down by the ICRP, the study was seen as a test of these standards, as well as an investigation of worker health. The Stewart-Kneale analysis revealed roughly 10 times the cancer incidence predicted from A-bomb survivor studies.

An immediate and damning official outcry ensued. Mancuso was deprived of his directorship by the US government; the first full survey results were never published in their original form; and the use of outside consultants was promptly banned.

In spite of this, the Hanford survey, and Stewart's collaborative studies, continued. Information was added year by year, many of the early criticisms of the study were eliminated, and the findings, although modified, remained largely unchanged. They suggested adult sensitivity to radiation broadly in line with the findings of the Oxford child cancer survey - roughly 10 times the official figures.

Much of this work was carried out after Stewart's retirement from Oxford, when she became senior research fellow in the department of social medicine at Birmingham University. Her unit was housed in a caravan; she was deprived of research support from British sources; and, although her findings increasingly gathered approval elsewhere in the world, she and her work were subjected in Britain to professional isolation - and often to malicious, and unjustified, attacks.

However, grants continued to flow from the United States and elsewhere. With characteristic energy and brisk determination, Stewart commuted up the motorway year after year from her cottage in Oxfordshire to continue the study and reanalysis of the growing body of information. It was difficult, but she always smiled when asked why she went on when recognition eluded her in her own country. "Good people are seldom fully recognised during their lifetimes, and here, there are serious problems of corruption. One day it will be realised that my findings should have been acknowledged."

In her later years, because of official recalculation of radiation doses to the Japanese bomb survivors, she was able to nod knowingly as ICRP guidelines on permitted levels of radiation for the public were reduced by two thirds.
New evidence of the highly localised molecular damage produced by radiation in genetic material also reinforced her findings of high sensitivity during foetal development and of second-generation effects.

Sellafield (akin to Hanford in the US - their most toxic site) has made the Irish sea the most radioactive sea on the planet at times (the North East coastal seas off Japan must hold that dubious record now). There have been many statistically anomalous incidences of cancers ( particularly those of childhood) for people living around Sellafield and the Irish Sea coasts. There have also been many cases of Down Syndrome, Cerebral Palsy, other diseases and deformities and still births, at factors many times what is observed in national statistical averages. They also measured Plutonium in household dust amongst the communities around Sellafield and Seascale. Plutonium (as per EPA regs) is considered carcinogenic at concenrtrations above 1x10^-6mg/L - which is pretty minute by any method of calculation. 

BNFL regularly broke the law and lied publicly and it was covered up by a complicit establishment - it was only during the late 70s and '80s, greenpeace, CND and other activists exposed the shocking volume of high level nuclear waste being dumped directly into the sea. Only a handful of politicians made any noises about it: (Many of them were in Scandinavia - Sellafield causes cancer and birth defects in Norway particularly) Eddie McGrady was one of the few elected men with the gumption to speak out about the criminal activity perpetrated directly across from his constituency in SE NI.

It was only after the activists and politicians raised profile of the dangers and lawbreaking that the government belatedly took action to lower the thresholds of what could legally be pumped into the sea. It was all to do with cost - profiteering for the corrupt BNFL. The plant and all of the UK's nuclear power is paid for with public money - socialized costs, and the profits are kept for BNFL and not passed back to the public by way of reduced costs - privatized profits.

BNFL just creamed off the profits and cut corners: Just dumped the waste into the sea and didn't give a fuck about the consequences. And they regularly 'leaked' by 'accident' volumes of radioactive pollution that broke the law, well into the early part of this century. Cynical and calculated - they deliberately poisoned people and did nothing to clean up or make restitution to those affected - in fact they lied to the press and then lobbied a series of sympathetic governments to ensure no impartial investigation into the damage caused.
 
And Plutonium will keep on giving cancer as long as it is in the environment - an substance that is entirely man made (80-90yo ?) and yet remains toxic for hundreds of thousands of years. Effectively infinitely in relation to us and our projected race lifespan - Which doesn't look too fucking rosy with this love for all things nuclear.

You should watch the Helen Caldicott video, just the first one, (If You Love This Planet): It gives a detailed description of a 20Mton bomb going off above a city - if you love nuclear energy, you love to hear about it's godlike power of destruction. (you know, when the idea of machine gunning hippies isn't doing it for you)

And they are linked - bombs and power plants. If we get rid of all the nuclear sites (and it will take forever because of the waste - at least thousands of years, to do so safely), then it makes it harder to have the bombs. Which has got to be a good thing for the long term future of our species (and all the other living things).   

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #223 on: June 3, 2012, 08:09:32 pm »
When's this out then?

Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #224 on: June 3, 2012, 08:15:45 pm »
What is it - I just see a picture of a kettle with some words on the side

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #225 on: June 3, 2012, 08:25:51 pm »
What is it - I just see a picture of a kettle with some words on the side



Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #226 on: June 3, 2012, 08:29:49 pm »
Ah, science fantasy. From Hollywood. 

Great. That'll bring about a stable and clean energy future then.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #227 on: June 3, 2012, 08:31:13 pm »
Ah, science fantasy. From Hollywood. 

Great. That'll bring about a stable and clean energy future then.

Yes. Correct. Because nothing was ever first postulated in Science Fiction that has since become science fact :)
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #228 on: June 3, 2012, 08:55:39 pm »
Yes. Correct. Because nothing was ever first postulated in Science Fiction that has since become science fact :)

Wait, what? That is the most absurd argument I have ever seen postulated.

Andy, I cater for your needs and try and avoid bringing reality into any discussions I have with you.

So please, unless we are talking about what 'might' happen with 'technology', (or at least what the future might look like as internet collage, compiled from what Andy found on the internets), please don't bring Hollywood Science Fantasy into a discussion with me, if we are discussing actual Nuclear Energy.


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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #229 on: June 3, 2012, 08:56:28 pm »
Wait, what? That is the most absurd argument I have ever seen postulated.

Andy, I cater for your needs and try and avoid bringing reality into any discussions I have with you.

So please, unless we are talking about what 'might' happen with 'technology', (or at least what the future might look like as internet collage, compiled from what Andy found on the internets), please don't bring Hollywood Science Fantasy into a discussion with me, if we are discussing actual Nuclear Energy.




Is Cold Fusion a potential reality?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #230 on: June 3, 2012, 09:06:14 pm »

Is Cold Fusion a potential reality?

Holy Venkateswara!

Andy - if you want to start a thread to discuss potential energy sources of the future, be my guest. I'll be along with fantastical and potential problems for you to muse over.

In the meanwhile, if you have anything to offer in terms of the subject matter in the thread title, or any actual evidence of a practical Cold Fusion device, then post it and discuss what exists now.

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #231 on: June 3, 2012, 09:22:36 pm »
So Germany is changing their power production away from nuclear.

They have gone towards renewables (not Cold Fusion, Andy).

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/26/us-climate-germany-solar-idUSBRE84P0FI20120526

Quote
(Reuters) - German solar power plants produced a world record 22 gigawatts of electricity per hour - equal to 20 nuclear power stations at full capacity - through the midday hours on Friday and Saturday, the head of a renewable energy think tank said.

The German government decided to abandon nuclear power after the Fukushima nuclear disaster last year, closing eight plants immediately and shutting down the remaining nine by 2022.

They will be replaced by renewable energy sources such as wind, solar and bio-mass.

Norbert Allnoch, director of the Institute of the Renewable Energy Industry (IWR) in Muenster, said the 22 gigawatts of solar power per hour fed into the national grid on Saturday met nearly 50 percent of the nation's midday electricity needs.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-03/jordan-to-build-solar-project-funded-by-germany-times-reported.html

Quote
Jordan will start a project to use concentrated sunlight to power air conditioners next month, The Jordan Times reported.

The project, which will be operational by 2015, is funded by Germany’s federal environment ministry at a cost of about 3.3 million euros ($4.1 million), it reported, citing Isa Shboul, a spokesman for the Ministry of Environment.

Meanwhile, Smiley Dave C, will give even more money to the failing UK nuclear industry by describing it as 'renewable'. Double think your way around that.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/20/coalition-u-turn-nuclear-energy-subsidies

Quote
Ministers are planning to subsidise nuclear power through electricity bills – despite their promises not to, a secret document seen by the Guardian reveals.

The leaked document clearly lays out plans to use "contracts for difference" for nuclear energy, which would allow nuclear operators to reap higher prices for their energy than fossil fuel power stations.

The plans will further inflame rows over energy policy and cause a political furore for the Liberal Democrats, who fought the general election firmly opposing an expansion of nuclear power.

Feathering the nests of their rich buddies while bullshitting the taxpayers and voters with spin and pr. Once again the UK nuclear industry will be tax payer funded while the profits are creamed off for private use.

Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #232 on: June 3, 2012, 10:16:54 pm »
German solar power plants produced a world record 22 gigawatts of electricity per hour - equal to 20 nuclear power stations at full capacity - through the midday hours on Friday and Saturday, the head of a renewable energy think tank said.

What do they produce at 1900 on, for the sake of argument, 21st December?

The German government decided to abandon nuclear power after the Fukushima nuclear disaster last year, closing eight plants immediately and shutting down the remaining nine by 2022.

They will be replaced by renewable energy sources such as wind, solar and bio-mass.

And from buying power from nuclear powered France.


Jordan will start a project to use concentrated sunlight to power air conditioners next month, The Jordan Times reported.

It might only be a rumour but I'm sure I read somewhere that northern Europe may not be quite as sunny as the Middle East.
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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #233 on: June 3, 2012, 10:48:17 pm »
What do they produce at 1900 on, for the sake of argument, 21st December?

What do Japan's nuclear power plants produce right at this moment of time?

And from buying power from nuclear powered France.

Maybe, maybe not.  http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d7958b26-a4d1-11e1-9a94-00144feabdc0.html

Quote
Fukushima has undeniably had a cooling effect on global nuclear ambitions, but much of this has been centred in Europe and developed markets.

Overall, 24 reactor projects representing more than $135bn in new build have been postponed or cancelled in the wake of the Fukushima crisis, according to estimates by Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

Countries including Germany, Italy, Belgium, Kuwait, Switzerland and Mexico have scaled back their nuclear power programmes and cancelled or postponed projects. With the recent presidential victory of François Hollande, who wants to reduce French dependence on nuclear power, France, too, could join the list. 

It might only be a rumour but I'm sure I read somewhere that northern Europe may not be quite as sunny as the Middle East.

You might be right. You may even have been there yourself to verify that there are different climates in different parts of the world.

Solar isn't the catch all energy solution: Just part of it. Like wind doesn't work when it isn't windy. And nuclear doesn't work when there are jellyfish. Or lukewarm riverwater. Or a bit of a flood. And solar panels/wind farms don't shower their neighbours with carcinogenic and mutagenic radioactivity.

Nuclear is failing in the west because the political appetite for it's unique brand of poison, tethered to it's financial uncompetitiveness makes it a hard sell for investment. Unless you live in an actual dictatorship (China) or one of the more benign Asian states (Thailand) who are prepared to pump huge chunks of tax payer cash into propping up the unsustainable and overpriced nuclear electricity model. And the UK, where Cameron will hide nuclear subsidies amongst their 'green' energy plans.

Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #234 on: June 3, 2012, 11:00:16 pm »
What do Japan's nuclear power plants produce right at this moment of time?

Do Japan sell a lot of electricity to Germany then? The voltage drop on the cables must be a right bitch.

You might be right. You may even have been there yourself to verify that there are different climates in different parts of the world.

I have been to both and I can exclusively reveal that Germany is not as sunny as the Middle East.

Solar isn't the catch all energy solution: Just part of it. Like wind doesn't work when it isn't windy. And nuclear doesn't work when there are jellyfish. Or lukewarm riverwater. Or a bit of a flood. And solar panels/wind farms don't shower their neighbours with carcinogenic and mutagenic radioactivity.

Generally neither does nuclear. Wind doesn't work when it's not windy, or when it's too windy. Or when there's a Y in the day. Solar isn't the most reliable energy source for a northern Atlantic winter. Tidal works twice a day. The realistic choice for most of northern Europe is nuclear, fossil fuels or living in the dark.
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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #235 on: June 3, 2012, 11:21:51 pm »
Nuclear, fossil or nothing?

Nuclear will fuck up again - definite bad for long term (also pretty much close to certain, and not just in extreme long-term calcs. There will be another, just as bad or worse, during the next 50 -100 years. And if the industrial-technology masters Japan can't survive with theirs, it's just a matter of time for everyone else).

And it's uneconomic. Which is why big finance is shying away from it (and they are pretty much happy to do anything if there is money to be made). The only countries going for it have the taxpayer on the hook: Private investment won't touch it.

People are inevitably going to have to get used to less electricity consumption. It would be nice if the government helped with some thinking beyond the obvious but predictable plan of lining their friends pockets. 
« Last Edit: June 4, 2012, 12:37:05 am by RojoLeón »

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #236 on: June 4, 2012, 09:27:31 am »
And if the industrial-technology masters Japan can't survive with theirs, it's just a matter of time for everyone else).

Because the UK suffers magnitude 9 earthquakes and 130 foot tsunamis on a regular basis, doesn't it?

And it's uneconomic.

Not as uneconomic as having the country without power for two thirds of the day.
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Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #237 on: June 5, 2012, 01:52:30 am »
Because the UK suffers magnitude 9 earthquakes and 130 foot tsunamis on a regular basis, doesn't it?

They had a corrupt nuclear industry (just like with the UKs and USAs to be fair), where the regulator was in bed with the industry and not fully independent (as it ought to be). Over the course of a number of years, their cosy relationship led to the erosion of fail safes and other safety precautions at the plants.

The government didn't care and mollycoddled the industry from any public criticism and gave very generous contracts (wink, wink, nudge nudge - just like with the UK nuclear 'subsidies') to the nuclear industry despite calls for tightening of regulation and high profile cases of whistle blowers highlighting major concerns. The government helped to cover up (aided by a pro-nuclear press) a number of leaks and at least one major accident.

The reactors went into meltdown before the tsunami hit. The government is still lying about the true value of radiation released (Tepco are now saying it might be 4 times or more than they admitted to originally). It is a hairs breadth away from collapsing into the worst possible kind of nuclear fire - and we won't be out of the woods for another 3-4 years.

And this won't ever happen to the UK. (and lets say for sure that it doesn't, despite several accidents and major leaks in the UK over the last 60 years to the contrary).

Are you so sure about France, Sweden, Finland, Russia (or other Eastern European country)? Because their bad nuclear hair day will fuck up the UK just as happily - just need the right weather patterns.

The safety standards at these aging reactors are fine, nothing to worry about. There won't be any war again (or terrorism) in Europe - no mad fuckers ever going to blow up one of the coolant or backup power generators at any of multiple sites across Europe. And no civil unrest. And no bad weather.

Did I mention human error?

So when you see Dave Cameron lying through his teeth about pretty much everything, somehow he's got has the UK power needs at heart and just wants the best option for the UK energy future?

Despite German industry turning down 10s of billions of contracts because it isn't economically viable? Themselves shutting down nuclear and making like communist hipsters and using the weather to provide their energy gap (the socialist swines!).

And there isn't sufficient UK industrial capacity to do it for themselves. It's a mess - there is no real plan except to ensure that money flows out of the taxpayer funded treasury, and into the bank accounts of the Tory business chummery. Maybe some French industry will help out. Great to see that British Imperial Bulldog spirit of innovation and self sufficiency.

It is certainly going to be a costly disaster - see the Thorpe MOX debacle as foreshadowing of what these new plants will be like. Cost overruns and end product not fit for purpose.

And people will still be sitting in your hypothetical darkness.


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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #238 on: June 5, 2012, 10:38:57 am »
That's a very long way to say 'no, the UK doesn't generally suffer magnitude 9 earthquakes and 130 foot tsunamis and are thus unlikely to suffer the problems that Japan had', isn't it?
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Re: Nuclear Energy
« Reply #239 on: June 5, 2012, 04:31:18 pm »
That's a very long way to say 'no, the UK doesn't generally suffer magnitude 9 earthquakes and 130 foot tsunamis and are thus unlikely to suffer the problems that Japan had', isn't it?

And as you don't challenge any of the other points, I can assume you are in full agreement. Cheers  :wave