Topic: The Arriva Bus Strikes.

[Medellin]

Another 11 days of strike action.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/arriva-drivers-confirm-nine-december-13899487

Dates..

* Monday, November 20

* Monday, November 27

* Monday, December 4

* Thursday, December 7

* Tuesday, December 12

* Wednesday, December 13

* Thursday, December 14

* Wednesday, December 20

* Thursday, December 21

* Friday, December 22

* Saturday, December 23

Vote..discuss.

1st poll..hopefully got right*

[redbyrdz]

The bus strikes don't affect me personally, but Merseyrail and Northern have been on strike quite a bit recently, and I use those trains daily for commuting to work. A strike is a major pain in the arse.

However, in times where companies, the government and the rich show time and time again that they care only about themselves, their tax cuts and their privately financed lifestyle, and that they don't listen to anything, strikes are one way of reminding everybody - including those commuters affected - where the real power lies in the world, if we so wish. To me, it is not about the current dispute, but a necessary pain in the wider context. We can't let companies fuck us over again and again, or there will be nothing left of worker's rights and decent pay. Even if it hurts.

[the 92A]

The bus strikes don't affect me personally, but Merseyrail and Northern have been on strike quite a bit recently, and I use those trains daily for commuting to work. A strike is a major pain in the arse.

However, in times where companies, the government and the rich show time and time again that they care only about themselves, their tax cuts and their privately financed lifestyle, and that they don't listen to anything, strikes are one way of reminding everybody - including those commuters affected - where the real power lies in the world, if we so wish. To me, it is not about the current dispute, but a necessary pain in the wider context. We can't let companies fuck us over again and again, or there will be nothing left of worker's rights and decent pay. Even if it hurts.

absolutely spot on J, but good chance to get those winter gloves out for the bike

[Medellin]

Aye second that spot on mate.

[Pistolero]

the last time I caught a bus Bob Grant was collecting the tickets....

[rob1966]

The bus strikes don't affect me personally, but Merseyrail and Northern have been on strike quite a bit recently, and I use those trains daily for commuting to work. A strike is a major pain in the arse.

However, in times where companies, the government and the rich show time and time again that they care only about themselves, their tax cuts and their privately financed lifestyle, and that they don't listen to anything, strikes are one way of reminding everybody - including those commuters affected - where the real power lies in the world, if we so wish. To me, it is not about the current dispute, but a necessary pain in the wider context. We can't let companies fuck us over again and again, or there will be nothing left of worker's rights and decent pay. Even if it hurts.

Totally agree with you. At the end of the day its the drivers and mechanics who are the most important people, without them, there is no bus service and they should be treated as such. Fully back the train strikes too, profit over safety, just to line the pockets of the greedy.

Only going to get worse as they strive for automation.

[AlphaDelta]

The bus strikes don't affect me personally, but Merseyrail and Northern have been on strike quite a bit recently, and I use those trains daily for commuting to work. A strike is a major pain in the arse.

However, in times where companies, the government and the rich show time and time again that they care only about themselves, their tax cuts and their privately financed lifestyle, and that they don't listen to anything, strikes are one way of reminding everybody - including those commuters affected - where the real power lies in the world, if we so wish. To me, it is not about the current dispute, but a necessary pain in the wider context. We can't let companies fuck us over again and again, or there will be nothing left of worker's rights and decent pay. Even if it hurts.

Nailed it. Whats said though is reading the comments from a lot of people on Facebook, the attitude of "woe is me" and calling them "greedy bastards" is frustrating. People are selfish nowadays, compared to years ago when there was much more togetherness.

Call me paranoid also, but the Echo seems to be pushing people towards becoming anti-bus driver, there has been at least two articles this week trying to paint a bus driver in a bad light.
One in particular concerned a guy who had a disability/speech impediment who got on the 86 bus, tried to explain something to the driver who said to him "sit down, your drunk", the driver later realised his mistake and apologised several times to the passenger.
Now the Echo has picked up on this and suddenly its a big issue.

[So… Howard Philips]

Nailed it. Whats said though is reading the comments from a lot of people on Facebook, the attitude of "woe is me" and calling them "greedy bastards" is frustrating. People are selfish nowadays, compared to years ago when there was much more togetherness.

Call me paranoid also, but the Echo seems to be pushing people towards becoming anti-bus driver, there has been at least two articles this week trying to paint a bus driver in a bad light.
One in particular concerned a guy who had a disability/speech impediment who got on the 86 bus, tried to explain something to the driver who said to him "sit down, your drunk", the driver later realised his mistake and apologised several times to the passenger.
Now the Echo has picked up on this and suddenly its a big issue.

Surely you can understand someone who has to get to work early or has to go home late, relies on public transport and has no access to a car feeling "woe is me"?

[AlphaDelta]

Surely you can understand someone who has to get to work early or has to go home late, relies on public transport and has no access to a car feeling "woe is me"?

I rely on public transport, dont drive and have to be in work for 7:30, this strike so far has cost me two annual leave days and about 5 hours of flexi credit, but I back them (the drivers) all the way, if the bus drivers back down now it gives open season for management at Arriva and other companies to shit all over employees.

[Upinsmoke]

Why are they striking again? This is for both the buses and trains, what's the reason? Is it money for the bus drivers? And safety for the guards? Are they the two reasons?

[John_P]

Why are they striking again? This is for both the buses and trains, what's the reason? Is it money for the bus drivers? And safety for the guards? Are they the two reasons?

Arriva bus drivers are striking for equal pay across the depots in the north west

Merseyrail guards are protesting them bringing in driver operated  doors on trains due to the safety concerns they bring, and also as it'll lead to trains on the network having a driver on board and no other members of staff.

Feel the echo have been awful, constantly publishing articles detailing how much different jobs earn as well. Seemingly trying to turn people who work against each other.

[Upinsmoke]

So what would happen to the guards on the train if they brought in driver operated doors? I presume they'd be made redundant if they weren't needed?

[John_P]

So what would happen to the guards on the train if they brought in driver operated doors? I presume they'd be made redundant if they weren't needed?

Merseyrail have said they won't make anyone redundant and the guards would be offered new roles (on their current pay). They've also insisted trains at key times would always have at least 2 people on but they include people who pick up litter as part of it.
Plus there's the obvious safety issues of drivers trying to monitor CCTV to close doors and drive off, plenty of curved platforms on the network and potential blind spots.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

Merseyrail have said they won't make anyone redundant and the guards would be offered new roles (on their current pay). They've also insisted trains at key times would always have at least 2 people on but they include people who pick up litter as part of it.
Plus there's the obvious safety issues of drivers trying to monitor CCTV to close doors and drive off, plenty of curved platforms on the network and potential blind spots.

And the fact that you could be stopped in a tunnel with shit kicking off and no guard on there.

The fucking Oldham Echo trying to turn people against collective bargaining.

[Fiasco]

My mate drives for Arriva. He's got a little lad and a house to pay for and he doesn't get by. Many people don't, but from what he's said morale is rock bottom with the drivers and the senior management do not give one shiny fuck about anyone below them. Where have we heard that before?

I don't rely on public transport but even if I did I'd be supporting them. My mate regularly has to deal with drunken passengers late at night, older folk causing a scene because the bus was 1 minute late, people spitting at him for not having the correct change early in a shift and lobbing insults at him. Any bus driver is likely in the same boat. That's all my mate cares about. 'I go to work happy and come home miserable, I don't get paid enough for that.'

[AndyMuller]

Arriva bus drivers earn more than a newly qualified nurse and they have the nerve to go on strike?

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

Arriva bus drivers earn more than a newly qualified nurse and they have the nerve to go on strike?

The nerve? Fuckinghell, spot the Tory.

[Pistolero]

Arriva bus drivers earn more than a newly qualified nurse and they have the nerve to go on strike?

fuck me...

[AndyMuller]

The nerve? Fuckinghell, spot the Tory.

Behave lad, never been a tory in my life. How can they justify earning more than a nurse though? Enlighten me.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Behave lad, never been a tory in my life. How can they justify earning more than a nurse though? Enlighten me.

Isn't it just that nurses should be paid more though?

Bus drivers don't set nurses pay.

[AndyMuller]

Isn't it just that nurses should be paid more though?

Bus drivers don't set nurses pay.

Of course they should, but you don't see them going on strike? I looked at the annual wage for an Arriva bus driver in Liverpool and it's not even that bad compared to the other jobs around here.

If they are not happy with the wage, go on the taxis as it's practically the same job and will probably earn more anyway.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Of course they should, but you don't see them going on strike?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39890235

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/14/nurses-vote-support-ballot-for-strike-action-low-pay

You do though! Only a few months ago.

Sniping at strikers is literally exactly what the government want to happen. Get everyone who isn't getting paid enough to turn against each other, rather than directing their ire at the real fuckers, i.e. the ones in charge.


Also, saying 'they should just go on the taxis' is like saying nurses should just go and work for private healthcare - its directing people away from public services, its putting strain on said services, and its advocating an American style private system where everyone is 'fuck you, I got mine', and that's not the country I want to live in.

[oldfordie]

Behave lad, never been a tory in my life. How can they justify earning more than a nurse though? Enlighten me.

Collective bargaining is about how much profit the company make and can they afford to pay their workers more. it's also about the workforce being rewarded for improved efficiencies.since when have nurses been the benchmark for British wage negotiations.
I dont judge any workers frightening to improve their standard of living, we never get to know the full details of their argument to justify a wage rise in the media.

[AndyMuller]

There never on time anyway. . .

[Graeme]

I don’t really sympathise with the drivers. What are they on? Around £23k? For driving a bus around I feel that’s not a bad wage for the level of skill required to do the job.

I don’t really buy into the argument that because they get gobbed off at or given grief they should get loads more money either, by the same token anyone who works in Maccies should be on £25k as well.

[rob1966]

I don’t really sympathise with the drivers. What are they on? Around £23k? For driving a bus around I feel that’s not a bad wage for the level of skill required to do the job.

I don’t really buy into the argument that because they get gobbed off at or given grief they should get loads more money either, by the same token anyone who works in Maccies should be on £25k as well.

There is a skill level involved though, you try driving 8 to 9 hours a day keeping full concentration while making sure you keep up to 79 passengers safe and get them to where they want to go, on time, while pig ignorant car drivers do everything they can to fuck you up. Then deal with abusive passengers swearing at you, spitting at you, threatening to kill you, shitting on the bus (my Dad endured all that as a bus driver in Liverpool). Compared to driving a bus,  my job of sitting at a desk writing a bit of code is a piece of piss. I'm a full time software developer and a part time HGV driver, so I know how tiring driving is. I did a 11 and half hours shift yesterday, I'm shattered today.

[So… Howard Philips]

There is a skill level involved though, you try driving 8 to 9 hours a day keeping full concentration while making sure you keep up to 79 passengers safe and get them to where they want to go, on time, while pig ignorant car drivers do everything they can to fuck you up. Then deal with abusive passengers swearing at you, spitting at you, threatening to kill you, shitting on the bus (my Dad endured all that as a bus driver in Liverpool). Compared to driving a bus,  my job of sitting at a desk writing a bit of code is a piece of piss. I'm a full time software developer and a part time HGV driver, so I know how tiring driving is. I did a 11 and half hours shift yesterday, I'm shattered today.

Driving a bus around busy roads, dealing with the great British public, being responsible for the safety of the passengers and an expensive piece of kit.

Not a job most of us would fancy.

[Graeme]

Yeah, but realistically the skills required are the ability to drive a vehicle and some basic people skills. All I’m trying to say is there are plenty of jobs that require a lot more skill than driving a bus and don’t pay as well.

[only6times]

Arriva bus drivers earn more than a newly qualified nurse and they have the nerve to go on strike?

Haha. On a football website too. Ironic.

[only6times]

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3066527/Bus-train-operator-Arriva-sees-profit-accelerate-annual-sales-hit-3-3bn.html

[AndyMuller]

There’s a lot more people in harder jobs on a shitter wage. I’ve no sympathy for them just like Graeme.

They still turn into little crying arses when you get in with a fiver and they have to give you change.


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

[oldfordie]

There’s a lot more people in harder jobs on a shitter wage. I’ve no sympathy for them just like Graeme.

They still turn into little crying arses when you get in with a fiver and they have to give you change.


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

Yes and the answer is the people in those shittty jobs should be paid more, the argument shouldn't be people in higher paid jobs should drop their wage demands.this attitudes f.. this country over the last 40yrs. working class turning on their own when their trying to improve their standard of living.

[AndyMuller]

Yes and the answer is the people in those shittty jobs should be paid more, the argument shouldn't be people in higher paid jobs should drop their wage demands.this attitudes f.. this country over the last 40yrs. working class turning on their own when their trying to improve their standard of living.

So is the answer for those in worse paid jobs than bus drivers to go on strike also?

They need a bit of perspective, how many people are unemployed in Liverpool right now and would love to be earning 23k?


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

[oldfordie]

So is the answer for those in worse paid jobs than bus drivers to go on strike also?

They need a bit of perspective, how many people are unemployed in Liverpool right now and would love to be earning 23k?


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

I don't think it's for us to judge as I know from personal experience the media never give us the full details of these wage claims and the info they do give is often misleading.
The question is can Arriva afford to pay the wage rises. how much profit did they make, I would be surprised if the drivers union negotiators arent using facts and figures to justify a rise.
Theres also another point, if Arriva are making big profits and not conceding to wage demands then why aren't the lower paid telling them to drop fares. the finger always gets pointed at people trying to improve their standard of living. happened with pensions, f,,, them I haven't got a pension so why should I care if they lose theirs. pretty soon nobodys getting a pension.
The people on low wages is another argument,it's not connected to Arriva but am sure the bosses of Arriva appreciate people arguing the point.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

http://www.arriva.co.uk/media/news/2017/27-03-2017

Arriva are raking in massive profits and paying out dividends to their shareholders.

They can afford this raise. But they won't because they'd rather convince everyone that the bus drivers wanting a few extra quid are the real problem here.

[Graeme]

They’re turning down 2.6% rising to 3% in 6 months when they’re already on a decent wage. Just don’t think they’ve any justification to go on strike.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

Race to the bottom then?

I guess some people's opinion is "Fuck them, they get a decent the wage so they don't deserve a fair cut of the companies profit".

Support the strikes, simple as that.

[Graeme]

So Arriva is making a decent profit therefore the drivers should get a pay rise? So when profits are down do you support cutting their pay? Didn’t think so.

[So… Howard Philips]

So Arriva is making a decent profit therefore the drivers should get a pay rise? So when profits are down do you support cutting their pay? Didn’t think so.

Generally when profits are down cost cutting measures follow, normally redundancies.

[AndyMuller]

Race to the bottom then?

I guess some people's opinion is "Fuck them, they get a decent the wage so they don't deserve a fair cut of the companies profit".

Support the strikes, simple as that.

I support strikes in general, just not this one.

For example I support the Merseyrail strikes because it's about safety of the public and also potential redundancies.