Author Topic: Islamism  (Read 196443 times)

Offline Jake

  • Fuck VAR
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,120
  • Fuck VAR
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1320 on: August 14, 2014, 05:04:34 pm »
So anyway, according to wikiIslam....

The present-day Qur'an does not explicitly mention the act [of stoning], but according to hadith, the Qur'anic verses of stoning were written on a piece of paper and were lost when a goat ate it:

[Narrated 'Aisha] "The verse of the stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the messenger of Allah expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper."
Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal. vol. 6. p. 269; Sunan Ibn Majah, p. 626; Ibn Qutbah, Tawil Mukhtalafi 'l-Hadith (Cairo: Maktaba al-Kulliyat al-Azhariyya. 1966) p. 310; As-Suyuti, ad-Durru 'l-Manthur, vol. 2. p. 13

A goat ate it? Was it Allah's homework?!
I'm not vaccinated against covid and ... I don't wear masks.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,220
  • The first five yards........
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1321 on: August 14, 2014, 05:06:03 pm »
Ah, the classic homework-avoidance scam.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,220
  • The first five yards........
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1322 on: August 14, 2014, 05:06:45 pm »
Beaten to it  :)
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Broad Spectrum

  • Antibiotic
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,633
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1323 on: August 14, 2014, 05:06:58 pm »
Is there an equivalent mocking Christianity or Judaism, just out of interest?

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 93,676
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1324 on: August 14, 2014, 05:07:17 pm »
Hadith is a load of bunker any way.  It has no historical basis.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,362
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1325 on: August 14, 2014, 05:07:47 pm »
Is there an equivalent mocking Christianity or Judaism, just out of interest?

An equivalent what?

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 93,676
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1326 on: August 14, 2014, 05:08:07 pm »
Is there an equivalent mocking Christianity or Judaism, just out of interest?
Mocking of Christianity is a national pastime in Britain.

Entire television series have been built on the back of it.....


“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Broad Spectrum

  • Antibiotic
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,633
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1327 on: August 14, 2014, 05:09:29 pm »
Mocking of Christianity is a national pastime in Britain.

Entire television series have been built on the back of it.....

Yeah I was going more with the Judaism one to be honest.

An equivalent what?

Website. Bet one mocking Judaism is very hard to find!

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,220
  • The first five yards........
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1328 on: August 14, 2014, 05:09:56 pm »
Mocking of Christianity is a national pastime in Britain.

Entire television series have been built on the back of it.....




Father Ted's fucking brilliant.

Monty Python's LIfe of Brian even better.

But I must admit I do look forward to the day when we can enjoy Mullah Ted and Monty Python's Life of Al-Brian.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 93,676
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1329 on: August 14, 2014, 05:11:47 pm »
Yeah I was going more with the Judaism one to be honest.

Website. Bet one mocking Judaism is very hard to find!
There are a great number of comedians who slaughter Judaism ......

Joan rivers, Jackie Mason, woody Allen, many many more
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Jake

  • Fuck VAR
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,120
  • Fuck VAR
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1330 on: August 14, 2014, 05:13:08 pm »
Website. Bet one mocking Judaism is very hard to find!

I'd say the mainstream TV show South Park and its corresponding website could be classed?

You must admit, "The evidence was eaten by a goat" had comedic value?

That's part of why Islam is feared by some, because you can't mock it without being beheaded.
I'm not vaccinated against covid and ... I don't wear masks.

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,362
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1331 on: August 14, 2014, 05:13:32 pm »
Website. Bet one mocking Judaism is very hard to find!

WikiIslam is not for mocking purposes, it's a serious site. I've heard it described as a sceptic site or a site critical of Islam but I don't think it's satire. There's also http://www.wikichristian.org/.


Offline Broad Spectrum

  • Antibiotic
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,633
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1332 on: August 14, 2014, 05:25:17 pm »
I'd say the mainstream TV show South Park and its corresponding website could be classed?

You must admit, "The evidence was eaten by a goat" had comedic value?

That's part of why Islam is feared by some, because you can't mock it without being beheaded.

Yeah of course I always have a laugh at the expense of religion/religions! I love science, not religion.


WikiIslam is not for mocking purposes, it's a serious site. I've heard it described as a sceptic site or a site critical of Islam but I don't think it's satire. There's also http://www.wikichristian.org/.



Duno, looks like a piss take to me! Genuinely though, not that I give a shit. Just interested to see if there's sites openly mocking Judaism given how easy it is to be brandished an anti-Semite.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,220
  • The first five yards........
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1333 on: August 14, 2014, 05:33:28 pm »
Duno, looks like a piss take to me! Genuinely though, not that I give a shit. Just interested to see if there's sites openly mocking Judaism given how easy it is to be brandished an anti-Semite.

Rabbi Leibowitz is in conversation with God one day. "It's my son Moshe", he tells him, "he's just such a disappointment. His mother wanted him to be a doctor and meet a nice girl and settle down and have kids. I hoped he'd study hard too and become a lawyer maybe, or a successful businessman. But he's wasting his life away God. He's got no job. He hangs around with a group of long-haired dudes who don't work either and he's always getting into trouble. It's killing me".

"Yeah, I know", says God finally, "I have a son just like that myself".
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 06:10:57 pm by Yorkykopite »
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,362
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1334 on: August 14, 2014, 08:22:47 pm »
This is a link to a very good comic series called Jesus and Mo, and to one strip in particular which captures some of what this thread has been about. For any Muslims in, it contains a depiction of Muhammad, which is why I didn't slap it up here in all its glory.

Offline Pidalow

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,070
  • Success is not forever and failure isn’t fatal.
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1335 on: August 15, 2014, 12:45:56 am »
WikiIslam is not for mocking purposes, it's a serious site. I've heard it described as a sceptic site or a site critical of Islam but I don't think it's satire. There's also http://www.wikichristian.org/.

WikiIslam was created on October 27, 2005, in collaboration with various individuals from Faith Freedom International who provided the site with server space, technical help and exposure. The site remained in a testing phase for about a year and on September 4, 2006, it was opened to the public.

Faith Freedom International (FFI) is a pre-9/11 website, with an active forum, that is critical of Islam. It was founded by Dr. Ali Sina, a former Muslim from Iran who is currently residing in Canada.

Faith Freedom International welcomes all former Muslims regardless of their current beliefs and, according to the site, "echoes the voice of ex-Muslims who want to stop the spread of Islam, expose its violent nature, and help Muslims to understand it and leave it. We believe in the oneness of humanity and oppose Islam for inciting hatred against non Muslims. Muhammad instructed his follower to conquer the world by the sword and to rule it with terror. We are determined to not let that happen."


So yeah its not a great website to use, unless you want to use it for your anti Islam purposes then i guess its good.

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,362
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1336 on: August 15, 2014, 12:56:57 am »
Faith Freedom International (FFI) is a pre-9/11 website, with an active forum, that is critical of Islam.

So yeah its not a great website to use, unless you want to use it for your anti Islam purposes then i guess its good.

I already said it was critical of Islam. It's a considered look at Islam writings, by people who are educated in the field, in so far as such pursuits count as education. It's not a pisstake, which is the only charge I was answering. No doubt you are more scholarly and can disagree with their interpretations. Perhaps you might start with how what I posted is not true.

Offline gamble

  • andproctor
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,822
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1337 on: August 15, 2014, 01:16:45 am »
WikiIslam is not for mocking purposes, it's a serious site. I've heard it described as a sceptic site or a site critical of Islam but I don't think it's satire. There's also http://www.wikichristian.org/.



Anyone with half a brain cell can tell that the information on wikislam is a pisstake. Do you even understand how Wikis work? I can't understand how a grown man can mock others for believing the veracity of religious texts yet spends his life publishing unverified secondary sources to support his anti religious viewpoint.

As I told you before if you had ever completed a piece of original research you would understand where I am coming from. If you're going to be cheap, lazy and ill informed then you will never be taken seriously by those who do know what they are talking about.


Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,362
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1338 on: August 15, 2014, 01:22:37 am »
That's marvellous. Attack the source, rather than the content. Really, you're doing wonders for the whole stereotype thing.

Offline RedRabbit

  • Rampant but without the batteries.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,045
  • این نیز بگذرد
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1339 on: August 15, 2014, 01:25:55 am »
Nonsense. If by atheism you mean the rejection of a god or gods, then your rejection is trivial and empirical in nature. But if by atheism you mean the rejection of the Unmoved Mover (Aristotle), or the Subsistent Act of Being (Aquinas) then your rejection is substantial and metaphysical in nature. And it most certainly constitutes a worldview, or a "metanarrative"

Trivial in the sense that it can't be the cornerstone of a world view, then yes. That was my point.

Empirical in the sense that there is no observable evidence, then yes.

The rationality of human beings, our ability to truly think and to abstract and to reason, our ability to reflect upon our own consciousness and exhibit intentionality, are all features that cannot be accounted for by purely mechanical processes.

Are you sure? Where do they occur?

Offline vagabond

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,302
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1340 on: August 15, 2014, 01:30:37 am »
Amongst the ex-muslim community, Ali Sina and his website are mostly seen as hate-mongering and extreme in his (/their) views. It's not so much a question of the content of his site but the attitude taken in regards to that content. It's perfectly fine to question the ideas of Islam and criticise laws/ doctrines/ beliefs etc. However, Sina goes one (distasteful) step further and not only criticises Islam, but muslims too. He doesn't just want an end to Islamic ideas that he disagrees with but wants the 99% of muslims that are as peace-loving as the rest of the world to give up their faith as well because he considers them complicit. There are ex-muslims, like myself, who still have muslims as family and find their right to their own faith inviolable.

Generally, the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain (run by Maryam Namazie) is a better resource for ex-muslim perspectives on Islam if you're interesed. It's also just as critical of ideas, without getting into the nasty business of criticising the average joe muslim.
Sometimes a man stands up during supper
and walks outdoors, and keeps on walking,
because of a church that stands somewhere in the East.
---Rilke

Offline payback

  • is full of shit, shit and more shit, oh and chillies.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,403
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1341 on: August 15, 2014, 07:52:55 am »
This is a link to a very good comic series called Jesus and Mo, and to one strip in particular which captures some of what this thread has been about. For any Muslims in, it contains a depiction of Muhammad, which is why I didn't slap it up here in all its glory.
what do you think would be the consequences if you did put it on?

Offline outlaw_nas

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1342 on: August 15, 2014, 08:44:57 am »
PRESS RELEASE ISSUED BY LEEDS MAKKAH MASJID

Leeds Muslim Council and Leeds Makkah Mosque unequivocally condemns targeted attacks on Christians, Yazidis, people of other faiths and minority groups in Iraq by the militant group known as ISIS.

Imam of award-winning Makkah Mosque, Dr Qari Asim, MBE said:

" Actions such as the forced deportation, under the threat of execution, of Christians are far removed from the teachings of Islam and the practice of the Prophet of Islam (may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him). Islamic principles call for justice, kindness, coexistence and freedom of faith. Muslims and non-Muslims have co-existed and lived side by side for centuries and will continue to do so.

Islam has granted specific rights to non-Muslims and minorities living in Muslim countries and it has issued severe warnings to those who infringe rights of minorities."

Many people mistakenly believe that Islam does not tolerate the existence of other religions present in the world. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has strictly warned against any maltreatment of people of other faiths. He said:
“Beware! Whoever persecutes and is hard on a non-Muslim minority, or infringes their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against that person on the Day of Judgment.” (ref: Abu Dawud)

"The sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) urging Muslims to protect the rights of non-Muslim minorities should be enough for people in power in parts of Iraq to defend the rights of minorities", said Qari Asim MBE.

We urge people of all faiths and no faith to remain united and defend each other's rights and liberties. We should not let militants defeat the objective of achieving peace and harmony in the world.

Our thoughts and prayers are with those who have been affected by such brutal attacks, said a trustee of Leeds Makkah Mosque.

For further details, please contact: @LeedsMosque @QariAsim

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,220
  • The first five yards........
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1343 on: August 15, 2014, 09:44:22 am »
"The sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) urging Muslims to protect the rights of non-Muslim minorities should be enough for people in power in parts of Iraq to defend the rights of minorities", said Qari Asim MBE.

I'd have thought the fact that those being murdered are human beings would have been enough.

"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Mutton Geoff

  • 'The Invigilator'
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,663
  • Life is a journey, not a destination.
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1344 on: August 15, 2014, 10:41:25 am »
re mocking christianity Derek Nimmo made almost a career out of playing vicars etc, then we have Dawn French the Vicar of Dibley,

 slightly related and sorry i forgot some details on the news yesterday they interviewed a Adel Ray who writes and stars in Mr Khan about Moeen Ali in society, and he stated that its good that he is regarded as a English Cricketer rather than a Muslim English Cricketer.

Which brings me back to the point in all strands of society there is a need to be able to laugh at ourselves and when people lose this ability then tolerance towards other people goes with it.
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,220
  • The first five yards........
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1345 on: August 15, 2014, 10:58:43 am »
Yes.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline electricghost

  • Might haunt your wiring, but will usually stop if requested to. Lives in a spirit house in Pra Kanong.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,684
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1346 on: August 15, 2014, 11:24:19 am »
PRESS RELEASE ISSUED BY LEEDS MAKKAH MASJID


Many people mistakenly believe that Islam does not tolerate the existence of other religions present in the world. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has strictly warned against any maltreatment of people of other faiths. He said:
“Beware! Whoever persecutes and is hard on a non-Muslim minority, or infringes their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against that person on the Day of Judgment.” (ref: Abu Dawud)

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


It's the cherry pick game again.
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,362
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1347 on: August 15, 2014, 11:26:34 am »
what do you think would be the consequences if you did put it on?

Nothing probably. But we have Muslims on here, that's a thing they can get upset about so there's no point in rubbing their noses in it.

Online Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,266
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1348 on: August 15, 2014, 11:44:12 am »
The rationality of human beings, our ability to truly think and to abstract and to reason, our ability to reflect upon our own consciousness and exhibit intentionality, are all features that cannot be accounted for by purely mechanical processes.

It can and it has been. Daniel Dennet's book 'Darwin's Dangerours Idea' is an explanation of how such things can develop through evolution. In fact it's fairly straightforward to see that thinking, abstraction and reason are all advantageous in evolutionary terms for a bipedal ape that developed to adapt and survive in many different environments. An advanced ape that could experiment with new foods and convey what was good and what was bad to the rest of teh social group and to its descendants. That could think and problem solve to find short cuts to adaptation in different environments through tool use and other skills.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline payback

  • is full of shit, shit and more shit, oh and chillies.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,403
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1349 on: August 15, 2014, 09:58:11 pm »
Nothing probably. But we have Muslims on here, that's a thing they can get upset about so there's no point in rubbing their noses in it.
i can understand that but non muslims shouldn't be expected to follow islamic laws for fear of offending people imo.

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,362
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1350 on: August 15, 2014, 10:02:53 pm »
i can understand that but non muslims shouldn't be expected to follow islamic laws for fear of offending people imo.

No but this forum is a community where we all have to get along, sort of. I look at that Jesus and Mo strip all the time, and I have no problem linking to it but posting it up in pic format means Muslims will have to look at it before they realise what's in it and then that might offend them. That makes no sense to me but it does to them. Linking instead of posting doesn't inconvenience anyone who wants to see the strip so, on balance, I went for the polite thing.

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,343
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1351 on: August 15, 2014, 11:36:03 pm »
It can and it has been. Daniel Dennet's book 'Darwin's Dangerours Idea' is an explanation of how such things can develop through evolution.

To be fair that's still a subjective book by some bloke.

Offline jooneyisdagod

  • Doesn't like having pussy round the house
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,733
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1352 on: August 16, 2014, 12:19:06 am »
To be fair that's still a subjective book by some bloke.

Almost all neuroscientists I have encountered believe in mechanical processes governing everything.
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,220
  • The first five yards........
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1353 on: August 16, 2014, 09:33:03 am »
Convert or Die - and they mean it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28814633

Militants in northern Iraq have massacred at least 80 men from the Yazidi faith in a village and abducted women and children, reports say. Islamic State (IS) fighters entered Kocho, 45km (30 miles) from Sinjar, on Friday afternoon, reportedly telling men to convert to Islam or die.

The group's atrocities against non-Sunni Muslims have shocked the international community into action. In New York, the UN Security Council imposed sanctions on IS members. In another development, the US military said two of its drones had attacked and destroyed two vehicles identified as belonging to IS near Sinjar on Friday morning, after receiving reports from Kurdish forces that the militants were attacking civilians in the village of Kawju.

'Convert or die'
Kurdish officials confirmed the attack on Kocho after it was reported by Yazidi activists based in Washington. "They arrived in vehicles and they started their killing this afternoon," senior Kurdish official Hoshiyar Zebari told Reuters news agency on Friday.

The killings took place over the space of an hour, said a Yazidi MP, Mahama Khalil, who reportedly spoke to survivors. A resident of a nearby village said an IS fighter from the same area had given him details of the bloodshed. "He told me that the Islamic State had spent five days trying to persuade villagers to convert to Islam and that a long lecture was delivered about the subject today," said the villager. "He then said the men were gathered and shot dead. The women and girls were probably taken to [the city of] Tal Afar because that is where the foreign fighters are."

Hadi Pir, a Yazidi activist and member of the Yazidi Crisis Management Team in the US, also said a deadline to convert had been given to the villagers. The villagers were assembled at Kocho's only school, after which the men were shot, the activists said. Remaining villagers were then put on buses for an unknown destination.

IS-led violence has driven an estimated 1.2 million Iraqis from their homes. Whole communities of Yazidis and Christians have been forced to flee in the north, along with Shia Iraqis, whom IS do not regard as true Muslims.

Meanwhile Kurdish regional Rudaw TV reported that US fighter jets had launched air strikes against IS positions near the Mosul dam and in several surrounding towns. An official from US Central Command would not confirm or deny the reports. "For the safety and security of our personnel, we will not discuss or speculate on reports of ongoing or future operations," the official told the BBC.

The dam, which controls the water and power supply to a large area of northern Iraq, was captured by the militants earlier in the month. Separately, fighting flared up on Friday in the mainly Sunni Anbar province, west of Baghdad, parts of which have been under IS control.

Sanctions
Some leaders of Iraq's Sunni Muslim minority have said they may work against the militants in cooperation with Iraq's new Prime Minister, Minister Haider al-Abadi, who is tasked with restoring order. The mainly Shia Muslim government is locked in a fight with IS since the group led an insurrection in the north this summer, making the city of Mosul the capital of a self-declared state which extends into Syria. Yazidi and Christian people in northern Iraq have faced persecution by the jihadists, prompting US-led air strikes and aid drops and calls for other Western states to arm opponents of IS.

Meeting in New York, the UN Security Council made six people associated with IS or the Syria-based Nusra Front subject to an international travel ban, asset freeze and arms embargo. Backers of the two groups may also face sanctions, they said. UK ambassador at the UN Sir Mark Lyall Grant says the impact of this will only be felt in the long term. "We're not suggesting that this resolution is going to immediately dramatically change the situation on the ground, " he said. "But it is a first step towards establishing a longer term international framework for tackling this major threat."

At an emergency EU meeting in Brussels on Friday, the 28 member-states were left to decide individually whether they would arm Iraq's Kurds, the main opponent of IS in the north. The UK said it would "consider favourably" any request to send arms to the Kurds, while the Czech government said it would be in a position to start deliveries of munitions by the end of the month. Germany is legally prevented from arming countries involved in conflict, but Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said he would go to the limit of "what is legally and politically possible" to help the Kurds and he will travel to Iraq shortly.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline dalarr

  • hästarr. Call me sensitive.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,228
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1354 on: August 16, 2014, 10:28:03 am »

How do these criminals sleep at night? Killing 80 men in cold blood and abducting women and children? Somewhere along the line one or two of them must be thinking: what the fuck am I doing?

Online Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,266
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1355 on: August 16, 2014, 10:29:39 am »
To be fair that's still a subjective book by some bloke.

I didn't say it wasn't. The statement was that there is no way conscious thought could arise through purely mechanical means. Dennett explains how such things can arise through evolution by natural selection. And if you look at all the other incredible things that have arisen through evolution then it's not a great stretch to say that problem solving, language etc arose that way as well.

Especially as they have such obvious advantages in terms of adaptation to changing environments. Most thinking, problem solving and the language we use is not philosophical in nature. It's practical.

The alternative is that some Sky Daddy gave us the ability to think for what exactly? Because if conscious thought and decision making is meant to be a gift from God he made a pretty shoddy ham-fisted job of it.

I mean, right from the off it was a bit fucked up. 'OK Adam and Eve, here's your first problem - if you eat the fruit of the tree that I've put in the garden, that I've told you not to eat (though if I didn't want the to eat it the easiest option would have been not to put the tree in the garden) then you will be cast out. Your task is to take that information and come to the right decision...'  A few days later... 'What the fuck! It wasn't a difficult problem!... A snake?... Really?...'

Intelligence, thought, problem solving, communication etc all exist elsewhere of the animal kingdom. Human thought and communication is just on a different level.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,220
  • The first five yards........
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1356 on: August 16, 2014, 10:40:27 am »
How do these criminals sleep at night? Killing 80 men in cold blood and abducting women and children? Somewhere along the line one or two of them must be thinking: what the fuck am I doing?

Perhaps. You'd think that some trace of humanity might break through the crust, if only for a moment. Just as it must have done for the Einsatzgruppen when they went on their killing sprees.

But probably most of these bastards pray to their god five times a day then pat each other on the back.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 93,676
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1357 on: August 16, 2014, 10:42:01 am »
Perhaps. You'd think that some trace of humanity might break through the crust, if only for a moment. Just as it must have done for the Einsatzgruppen when they went on their killing sprees.

But probably most of these bastards pray to their god five times a day then pat each other on the back.
They are so sure that they know god's mind, god's intention, this is what is disturbing.

Of god were to exist, it is patently clear that you could never know his mind, never know his true intentions.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline dalarr

  • hästarr. Call me sensitive.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,228
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1358 on: August 16, 2014, 10:45:57 am »
I understand that they might find justification somewhere for killing infidels. But abducting women and children? We all know what is happening to them right now. There is no justification for rape in the Quaran, is there? Hence my argument that these men are not religious, but nothing but criminal scum.

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 93,676
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Islamism
« Reply #1359 on: August 16, 2014, 10:50:15 am »
I understand that they might find justification somewhere for killing infidels. But abducting women and children? We all know what is happening to them right now. There is no justification for rape in the Quaran, is there? Hence my argument that these men are not religious, but nothing but criminal scum.
Are you trying to suggest therefore that killing infidels is acceptable?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W