Author Topic: North and South Korea Vow to End Hostilities in Historic Accord (Read 80780 times)

James Mac · « **Reply #80 on:** November 23, 2010, 10:28:33 am »

Shit's gonna get real. Everyone's putting troops everywhere: China, Russia, India, the Koreas...

dalarr · « **Reply #81 on:** November 23, 2010, 10:34:08 am »

Quote from: James Mac on November 23, 2010, 10:28:33 am

Shit's gonna get real. Everyone's putting troops everywhere: China, Russia, India, the Koreas...

This is very frightening. As far as I know there has been occasional clashes before, but this one seems to be bad. The world does not need a Kim Jong-il final stand right now

James Mac · « **Reply #82 on:** November 23, 2010, 10:43:24 am »

Japan saying that diplomacy has to stop - pressuring China to get tough with N. Korea.

PILLSBURY069 · « **Reply #83 on:** November 23, 2010, 10:46:35 am »

Sadly nothing will happen again, America wont do much for a few reasons, first of all North Korea has nukes, second China will support North Korea and thirdly there isnt any oil in North Korea.

James Mac · « **Reply #84 on:** November 23, 2010, 10:59:42 am »

Ruski's talking sense:

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says: "It is necessary to immediately end all strikes. There is a colossal danger which must be avoided".

Red in Korea · « **Reply #85 on:** November 23, 2010, 11:45:25 am »

Quote from: WillG.LFC on November 23, 2010, 09:11:28 am

oh joy I have to go to korea next week for a few days to do a job

Oh joy, i have to live here!

Not much panic here though, to be honest. Most people have seen it all before, though this attack does seem to be a level higher than previous ones. There's talk of evacuating Incheon where I live (closest city to YonPyung Island which was attacked), but I doubt it will happen.

South Korean analysis is that it is most likely motivated by the leadership succession - if Kim Jong Il can cause enough panic and instability through these attacks then no one will dare interfere with him handing over to some number 3.

Zend...en the clowns · « **Reply #86 on:** November 23, 2010, 12:01:13 pm »

South Korea has returned fire and scrambled fighter jets..this could get messy..

Red in Korea · « **Reply #87 on:** November 23, 2010, 12:06:30 pm »

Quote from: Zend...en the clowns on November 23, 2010, 12:01:13 pm

South Korea has returned fire and scrambled fighter jets..this could get messy..

It won't its just political posturing.

...and I hope I am proved right....

dalarr · « **Reply #88 on:** November 23, 2010, 12:24:25 pm »

Quote from: Red in Korea on November 23, 2010, 12:06:30 pm

It won't its just political posturing.

How is the Korean media reporting this? Are they trying to cause panic or are they keeping their cool?

Dixon_Cox · « **Reply #89 on:** November 23, 2010, 12:46:44 pm »

Quote from: Zend...en the clowns on November 23, 2010, 12:01:13 pm

South Korea has returned fire and scrambled fighter jets..this could get messy..

Not gonna happen. Both countrys know there is too much at stake.

Just very dangerous handbags.

Mad Men · « **Reply #90 on:** November 23, 2010, 12:46:55 pm »

Quote from: Zend...en the clowns on November 23, 2010, 12:01:13 pm

South Korea has returned fire and scrambled fighter jets..this could get messy..

Apache's are up. M1's have been mobilized to the borders..this is getting hotter before it gets colder.

Red in Korea · « **Reply #91 on:** November 23, 2010, 12:47:18 pm »

Quote from: dalarr on November 23, 2010, 12:24:25 pm

How is the Korean media reporting this? Are they trying to cause panic or are they keeping their cool?

Bit of both. The analysis suggests that there wont be any further escalation and that the NKs have sent their message. But there is obviously widespread anger over the damage and loss of life.

Mad Men · « **Reply #92 on:** November 23, 2010, 12:59:05 pm »

Quote from: Red in Korea on November 23, 2010, 12:47:18 pm

Bit of both. The analysis suggests that there wont be any further escalation and that the NKs have sent their message. But there is obviously widespread anger over the damage and loss of life.

You have to wonder after the attack on that frigate and now this...what they can/will do next to keep reminding the world not to fuck with them.....

Prelude no.5 · « **Reply #93 on:** November 23, 2010, 01:03:14 pm »

Do N.Korea have nukes though ?

There was a flash news on Reuters this week that an American spy saw some hundreds of centrifuges and N.Korea could well be ahead in its nuclear program than the world thinks.

Having said that, I still think it'd be conventional warfare if (hopefully not) it escalates.

... · « **Reply #94 on:** November 23, 2010, 01:03:47 pm »

I don't see why it's a big deal and why everyone's scared of them. Their a tiny shit country with a few nukes trying to bully everyone else, China should just fuck them up.

dalarr · « **Reply #95 on:** November 23, 2010, 01:06:10 pm »

Quote from: djdelmar on November 23, 2010, 01:03:47 pm

I don't see why it's a big deal and why everyone's scared of them. Their a tiny shit country with a few nukes trying to bully everyone else, China should just fuck them up.

I think you are wrong. They have a massive army, if I'm not mistaken

... · « **Reply #96 on:** November 23, 2010, 01:08:49 pm »

Quote from: dalarr on November 23, 2010, 01:06:10 pm

I think you are wrong. They have a massive army, if I'm not mistaken

A massive army? maybe for the small country that they are, but look WHERE they are, what use are troops to them?
Surely they wouldn't be stupid enough to nuke anyone, Europe/America/Russia wouldn't think twice about sorting them out.

Mad Men · « **Reply #97 on:** November 23, 2010, 01:11:47 pm »

Quote from: djdelmar on November 23, 2010, 01:03:47 pm

I don't see why it's a big deal and why everyone's scared of them. Their a tiny shit country with a few nukes trying to bully everyone else, China should just fuck them up.

They have a bigger army than South Korea to begin with and more armour than any other country bar China. And they have medium range and long range missles to decimate all the major cities in South Korea.

And that doesn't even take into account the possibility of using small, tactical nukes if South Korea cross the border.

Red in Korea · « **Reply #98 on:** November 23, 2010, 01:13:20 pm »

Quote from: djdelmar on November 23, 2010, 01:08:49 pm

A massive army? maybe for the small country that they are, but look WHERE they are, what use are troops to them?
Surely they wouldn't be stupid enough to nuke anyone, Europe/America/Russia wouldn't think twice about sorting them out.

Its the threat they pose to South Korea and Japan that give them political and military leverage. Their 'little' army could take quite a few lives down with them.

Red in Korea · « **Reply #99 on:** November 23, 2010, 01:18:16 pm »

Quote from: Prelude no.5 on November 23, 2010, 01:03:14 pm

Do N.Korea have nukes though ?

There was a flash news on Reuters this week that an American spy saw some hundreds of centrifuges and N.Korea could well be ahead in its nuclear program than the world thinks.

Having said that, I still think it'd be conventional warfare if (hopefully not) it escalates.

Its unlikely that they have nukes, but they are getting closer to being able to develop them as they revealed to a top US scientist (not spy) last week.

Red in Korea · « **Reply #100 on:** November 23, 2010, 01:20:50 pm »

Quote from: Mad Men on November 23, 2010, 12:59:05 pm

You have to wonder after the attack on that frigate and now this...what they can/will do next to keep reminding the world not to fuck with them.....

Both attacks came a few days after the US spoke out publicly against them. so its either connected to that or as I wrote above Kim Jong Il proving he is in control and that his son can take over.

Mad Men · « **Reply #101 on:** November 23, 2010, 01:26:00 pm »

Quote from: Red in Korea on November 23, 2010, 01:20:50 pm

Both attacks came a few days after the US spoke out publicly against them. so its either connected to that or as I wrote above Kim Jong Il proving he is in control and that his son can take over.

You could be right.

dalarr · « **Reply #102 on:** November 23, 2010, 02:34:44 pm »

Quote from: Red in Korea on November 23, 2010, 01:20:50 pm

Both attacks came a few days after the US spoke out publicly against them. so its either connected to that or as I wrote above Kim Jong Il proving he is in control and that his son can take over.

Or maybe his son wants to prove himself..show the world that he is a big man

Mad Men · « **Reply #103 on:** November 23, 2010, 02:36:16 pm »

Quote from: dalarr on November 23, 2010, 02:34:44 pm

Or maybe his son wants to prove himself..show the world that he is a big man

Father and Son. Nuts.

Red in Korea · « **Reply #104 on:** November 23, 2010, 02:39:19 pm »

Quote from: dalarr on November 23, 2010, 02:34:44 pm

Or maybe his son wants to prove himself..show the world that he is a big man

Yes, that is another theory. As is...

"The BBC's diplomatic correspondent Jonathan Marcus says: From the North Korean viewpoint this is about establishing a deterrence strategy over the South and defending its vital interests. An annual South Korean military exercise is under way across the country. The North Koreans demanded that this be halted. And when it went ahead, for whatever reason, this clash erupted."

Or...

"Choi Jin-wook, a North Korea expert at the Korea Institute for National Unification in Seoul, tells the New York Times that the incident is a "sign of North Korea's increasing frustration" at the US government's refusal to remove sanctions. "Washington has turned a deaf ear to Pyongyang and North Korea is saying, 'Look here. We're still alive. We can cause trouble. You can't ignore us,'" he says. North Korea's most urgent priority is food aid, he adds."

Mad Men · « **Reply #105 on:** November 23, 2010, 02:44:12 pm »

Quote from: Red in Korea on November 23, 2010, 02:39:19 pm

Yes, that is another theory. As is...

"The BBC's diplomatic correspondent Jonathan Marcus says: From the North Korean viewpoint this is about establishing a deterrence strategy over the South and defending its vital interests. An annual South Korean military exercise is under way across the country. The North Koreans demanded that this be halted. And when it went ahead, for whatever reason, this clash erupted."

But at some point, you have to realize the South Koreans have lost manpower on two occassions now within a year...how long more before they actually respond and take out some North Koreans in response.

Red in Korea · « **Reply #106 on:** November 23, 2010, 02:52:52 pm »

Quote from: Mad Men on November 23, 2010, 02:44:12 pm

But at some point, you have to realize the South Koreans have lost manpower on two occassions now within a year...how long more before they actually respond and take out some North Koreans in response.

Yes mate, that is a valid point and there is a point where the South Korean public will demand a stronger response. The response is better if it comes from the international community rather than South Korea though. But the SK govt has already said that they will proceed with air strikes if NK attack again at this time.

Art Vandelay · « **Reply #107 on:** November 23, 2010, 02:59:23 pm »

"Awww, not this shit again..."

exiledintheUSA · « **Reply #108 on:** November 23, 2010, 03:08:08 pm »

Quote from: Art Vandelay on November 23, 2010, 02:59:23 pm

"Awww, not this shit again..."

CHOPPER · « **Reply #109 on:** November 23, 2010, 03:20:53 pm »

If the UN don't step in this could Korea out of control.

Lent§ · « **Reply #110 on:** November 23, 2010, 03:26:56 pm »

Quote from: CHOPPER on November 23, 2010, 03:20:53 pm

If the UN don't step in this could Korea out of control.

Could turn into a right Dogs Dinner

Red in Korea · « **Reply #111 on:** November 23, 2010, 03:28:18 pm »

Quote from: CHOPPER on November 23, 2010, 03:20:53 pm

If the UN don't step in this could Korea out of control.

I honestly doubt it. These things happen pretty regulalry without spiralling out of control.

exiledintheUSA · « **Reply #112 on:** November 23, 2010, 03:30:10 pm »

Quote from: Red in Korea on November 23, 2010, 03:28:18 pm

I honestly doubt it. These things happen pretty regulalry without spiralling out of control.

How's the mood fella? It looks pretty unstable at the moment, keep your head down.

Red in Korea · « **Reply #113 on:** November 23, 2010, 03:37:07 pm »

Quote from: exiledintheusa on November 23, 2010, 03:30:10 pm

How's the mood fella? It looks pretty unstable at the moment, keep your head down.

Same old same old. No one's panicking yet.

Ekul · « **Reply #114 on:** November 23, 2010, 09:56:30 pm »

Quote from: djdelmar on November 23, 2010, 01:08:49 pm

A massive army? maybe for the small country that they are, but look WHERE they are, what use are troops to them?
Surely they wouldn't be stupid enough to nuke anyone, Europe/America/Russia wouldn't think twice about sorting them out.

North Korea has the 4th largest army in the world behind the India, China, and the USA. And including reserves, the second largest after Russia with almost 9.5 million.

So I think their army is big by anybodies standards.

Mad Men · « **Reply #115 on:** November 23, 2010, 10:13:20 pm »

Quote from: Ekul on November 23, 2010, 09:56:30 pm

North Korea has the 4th largest army in the world behind the India, China, and the USA. And including reserves, the second largest after Russia with almost 9.5 million.

So I think their army is big by anybodies standards.

As an offensive force, 9 million isn't the big concern because you can take out an invasion force now with a variety of warheads and weapons that are deployed from sea, air or land.

It's what they do with their own warheads that should scare the shit out of everyone.

And the damage/destruction they can and will do to South Korea and the massive loss of life.

Andy @ Allerton! · « **Reply #116 on:** November 23, 2010, 10:21:36 pm »

http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-3/ww3.htm

Criztian · « **Reply #117 on:** November 24, 2010, 04:30:32 am »

Quote from: CHOPPER on November 23, 2010, 03:20:53 pm

If the UN don't step in this could Korea out of control.

Yeah cause their non-binding resolutions is what's going to do it.

This issue WILL be resolved by backroom discussion between China, United States and South Korea.

And before we all start declaring the start of World War 3, we must remember that not long ago North Korea torpedoed a South Korean ship with little consequences.

All sides have to much to lose, there will be no war.

North Korea knows it can't win, and South Korea doesn't want to see it's capital city reduced to ruin by North Korean's artillery which has been pointing at Seoul since the conflict ended.

Mad Men · « **Reply #118 on:** November 24, 2010, 07:53:43 am »

Quote from: CHOPPER on November 23, 2010, 03:20:53 pm

If the UN don't step in this could Korea out of control.

I trust the UN to get jack done as much as I trust the Pakistani government to actually put an end to terrorism in their country. UN is useless. It really is down to IF China and Russia want to do anything. Without them, everyone might as well bark at a rottweiler and hope to god he doesn't get loose.

Mad Men · « **Reply #119 on:** November 24, 2010, 07:56:35 am »

Quote from: Criztian on November 24, 2010, 04:30:32 am

Yeah cause their non-binding resolutions is what's going to do it.

This issue WILL be resolved by backroom discussion between China, United States and South Korea.

And before we all start declaring the start of World War 3, we must remember that not long ago North Korea torpedoed a South Korean ship with little consequences.

All sides have to much to lose, there will be no war.

North Korea knows it can't win, and South Korea doesn't want to see it's capital city reduced to ruin by North Korean's artillery which has been pointing at Seoul since the conflict ended.

I don't to sound as though I am having a go at you mate but the USA has as much influence globally as GM does on the world car industry; naught.

Times have changed. It's Russia, China and India who hold the cards now and it's down to what the Chinese and Russians say or do that makes a difference now days when it comes to security issues.