Topic: Playstation 5 (2020)

[AndyMuller]

450 quid for a console. Still a bit steep, isn't it? I mean, it's slightly more expensive than the PS3, and that didn't go down too well.

I actually thought it would have been £500 at a minimum.

[Kashinoda]

Some might even have been £60 I think.

£113 in today's money!
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

I wouldn't mind new AAA games being £70 if they werent also going to stuff microtransactions and season pass shit into the games too.

[naYoRHa2b]

£113 in today's money!
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

I wouldn't mind new AAA games being £70 if they werent also going to stuff microtransactions and season pass shit into the games too.

Yeah that's an issue. Cory Balrog said he would rather pay more for games and not have mtx stuff but publisher's will do both at times so it's not exactly a case of it being one or the other. EA, Activision etc will all charge more next gen plus the mtx and battle passes etc

[OsirisMVZ]

I got a PS4 on day one and it has lasted me up until now. It does sound like a Russian Nuclear Silo when I play a big 2019/2020 release like TLOU2 or Tsushima but thats to be expected.

My plan was to get a PS5 a little later, maybe for my bday in Feb... but if we go into National Quarantine v2.0 in a couple of weeks like its seems then fuck that I'll get one on day one as well

[redan]

My PS4 is the same but weirdly the game it’s at its loudest is Pro Evo 20! It sounds like it’s about to take off when I’m playing that but TLOU2 and RDR2 etc are all pretty ok

[Skeeve]

£113 in today's money!
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

I wouldn't mind new AAA games being £70 if they werent also going to stuff microtransactions and season pass shit into the games too.

I don't even mind a season pass if it is proper expansions like you get from stuff like the Witcher or the Borderlands series, both of those also add a lot of other content and updates in addition to their main dlc too, but microtransactions in a full-price game can fuck right off.

[Macphisto80]

I actually thought it would have been £500 at a minimum.

So did I. I still think it's about 50 quid beyond the sweet spot, and I think Sony realised that and that's why the all digital version exists. They were probably shooting for that sub 400 mark. Anything above that traditionally isn't greeted too well, so they cut the part that would cut the most production cost and it's something the console could still exist without: the bluray drive. That way they give consumers a choice.

[Macphisto80]

Some might even have been £60 I think.

N64 games were initially 60, but don't forget the main reason why games were priced that way back then, and inflation doesn't, or shouldn't be brought into the conversation. The cartridges and the chips needed to manufacture them were notoriously costly to make. Then there was tax reasons. That's the main reason for the standard £50 rrp on games and it stuck. Today devs can just go digital or slap it on a cheap disc. This whole excuse of games being too expensive to make and driving the price upwards of that 50 mark is just complete bollocks from them.

[Skeeve]

N64 games were initially 60, but don't forget the main reason why games were priced that way back then, and inflation doesn't, or shouldn't be brought into the conversation. The cartridges and the chips needed to manufacture them were notoriously costly to make. Then there was tax reasons. That's the main reason for the standard £50 rrp on games and it stuck. Today devs can just go digital or slap it on a cheap disc. This whole excuse of games being too expensive to make and driving the price upwards of that 50 mark is just complete bollocks from them.

While the material costs aren't higher, you can't say the same about the actual dev costs, these AAA games are complex projects with far bigger teams working on them than they had in the past and sales haven't increased at the same rates.

[Macphisto80]

While the material costs aren't higher, you can't say the same about the actual dev costs, these AAA games are complex projects with far bigger teams working on them than they had in the past and sales haven't increased at the same rates.

Yeah, but it's offset by the amount of software sales now due to more people owning consoles than ever. Not only that, but a lot of these so called AAA games make more off of microtransactions than the actual game, yet they've the bollocks to moan about production costs when some of the games release in a half arsed or non-complete state, or at the very least, riddled with bugs. The whole "games cost too much to make" doesn't wash with me.

[Skeeve]

I mentioned that in the post you quoted, the increase in sales just haven't kept pace with the increase in dev costs, in part it is also the resistance to the headline price of games increasing that is the reason why more of them are infested with the cancer that is microtransactions.

Games being released with bugs is a separate issue, too few devs are in a position to say to a publisher that their game isn't going to be ready on time and needs to be delayed, particularly since they have patching available to them, all we can really do is vote with our wallets, avoiding preorders etc. until there is a clear picture of the stability of a new release.

You can dislike the fact of it as much as you like, but costs are simply higher nowadays and if we don't want to see more intrusions from the evil of mobile transactions then the base prices need to go up in some cases, but it'd be nice if publishers would opt for a wider range of pricing, not charging as much on smaller games.

[gazzalfc]

I can't remember the last time I paid RRP for a game. Maybe GTA 5 of the PS3. Even Final Fantasy 7 remake I got 10% off the retail price with a voucher code and student discount (setting an email forward service up on my old uni email was the best thing I ever did)

I do get wanting to play a new AAA title on release. But waiting a couple of months and keeping an eye out for a deal is better on the wallet.

Also gives the devs time to fix any bugs.

The biggest annoyance for me with modern day gaming is the actual size of the games. My PS4 has 2TB internal HHD and a 4TB external drive and even that is full so have to delete and re-download later on. Considering my broadband speeds at my old flat were 12mb/s I would have to set my games to download overnight. Getting myself 500mb/s fibre at my new house was the 1st thing I did.

Thats what is interesting me about the PS5 is how much these new sony compatible NVMe drives cost and can you add mechanical drives with higher storage.

[Zlen]

Is the microtransactions thing really such a big problem? What games are these? Call of duty, FIFA? Can you still play without paying extra?

I’m only playing on Switch these days and haven’t seen a single game forcing me to pay for anything. 

[Skeeve]

Thats what is interesting me about the PS5 is how much these new sony compatible NVMe drives cost and can you add mechanical drives with higher storage.

Not seen any mention of them being usable for backup purposes for those with slower internet, but with the way they are pushing the ssd stuff they can do with the ps5, there's practically zero chance of them supporting running games off a regular hd on there.

Iirc, they are actually even fussy about which ssd's will be supported let alone dropping down to a hd.

[ScottishKopite]

I am going to hold off until next Xmas. no keen on any the games what have been announced and not really excited.

[Scottymuser]

Not seen any mention of them being usable for backup purposes for those with slower internet, but with the way they are pushing the ssd stuff they can do with the ps5, there's practically zero chance of them supporting running games off a regular hd on there.

Iirc, they are actually even fussy about which ssd's will be supported let alone dropping down to a hd.

Yep - they have said the drive needs to be of a specific speed (not quite as quick as the main internal one, as that is better than normal NVMe drives), but also of a set physical  size to fit in the drive bay - and it's the combination of both that currently means not many (if any) have been !signed off as working".  With the way the games work, there is ZERO chance that clunky old mechanical drives (the quickest ones available are more than 10* slower than the SSDs we are talking about here) would be able to keep up with the throughput, and would lead to games being unplayable with load times etc

[Scottymuser]

Yeah, but it's offset by the amount of software sales now due to more people owning consoles than ever. Not only that, but a lot of these so called AAA games make more off of microtransactions than the actual game, yet they've the bollocks to moan about production costs when some of the games release in a half arsed or non-complete state, or at the very least, riddled with bugs. The whole "games cost too much to make" doesn't wash with me.

How is it offset - from Sony's POV the PS1 sold 103m units, the PS2 sold 150m - the PS4, over a longer lifespan than either only made 112m, so 10m more than the original PS1, and 40m less than the PS2.  That to me does not mean a "larger software sales" due to this.  It's possible people are buying more games, but I am not sure that is borne out by reality.  Also, there are plenty of AAA games without micro transactions, which don't need day one patches, etc.  Anything by Sony for instance, or CDProjekt Red.  Take something like Ghost of Tsushima - the team spent 6 years making the thing, it likely cost north of 60m, maybe even 100m to make - in the past games just weren't that ambitious with regards to some of the things that caused the costs to balloon.  I look at it more from an inflation point of view - every other product, since the release of the PS2 in 2000, has gone up by c. 70%, including things like music and DVDs - so why shouldn't games see a 40% increase (from 50 dollars for PS2 games to 70 dollars for PS5).  You don't see arguments about albums, or DVDs, not needing to go up due to a "larger audience"

[has gone odd]

Seen an interesting documentary about the games industry the other day.

The big AAA software developers will be branching out less and less into different genres due to the costs involved in creating a top shelf game, in some cases it blows movie budgets away. It means they will not take huge risks in game development, the stakes are too high. Therefore it is likely that EA will continue to focus on a handful of never improving sports titles, Activistion will become COD focussed only, UBI will cookie cut their open world games endlessly and so on.

While indie devs have a chance to shine with some truly original titles, as seen in this current gen, I do not think this endless wave of retro pixel and silhouette style game will still wash when the hardware has raised the bar much higher.  So we go back to what damaged indie/bedroom development in the first place, software houses having to get a publisher on board so they can afford to develop their game. The publisher then gets to dictate how the game should be to protect their investment, likely stripping away the best original features of the game they had envisaged. Either that or want the game complete quickly so they can start earning dollars.

Its not like its totally over for the games industry (its growing huge) but I think games will end up typically eye catching, with maybe even a decent story attached. Though can see them being samey, bland and uninspired.

[lionel_messias]

Considering how much people pay for phones nowadays and compared the specs to PC parts I think it's actually a good price

Games will be £70 on release but that will drop pretty quick. It's not like Nintendo games which hold their price insanely well.

You "buy" a new MAX iPhone and the device is worth £1200.
Crazy tech world, eh.

[AndyMuller]

Seen an interesting documentary about the games industry the other day.

The big AAA software developers will be branching out less and less into different genres due to the costs involved in creating a top shelf game, in some cases it blows movie budgets away. It means they will not take huge risks in game development, the stakes are too high. Therefore it is likely that EA will continue to focus on a handful of never improving sports titles, Activistion will become COD focussed only, UBI will cookie cut their open world games endlessly and so on.

While indie devs have a chance to shine with some truly original titles, as seen in this current gen, I do not think this endless wave of retro pixel and silhouette style game will still wash when the hardware has raised the bar much higher.  So we go back to what damaged indie/bedroom development in the first place, software houses having to get a publisher on board so they can afford to develop their game. The publisher then gets to dictate how the game should be to protect their investment, likely stripping away the best original features of the game they had envisaged. Either that or want the game complete quickly so they can start earning dollars.

Its not like its totally over for the games industry (its growing huge) but I think games will end up typically eye catching, with maybe even a decent story attached. Though can see them being samey, bland and uninspired.

This is why Kojima should be celebrated for delivering the masterpiece that is known as DEATH STRANDING.

[MBL?]

Missed out on the pre orders but I will definitely pick one up. Will most likely get the digital one. Was considering the Xbox but they just don’t make games that I like. Gamepass sounds good but it will be all last gen Bar the odd game as they don’t make many and ps plus is doing the same with far better games all be it no new first party will end up there for a few years.

As for the power difference, I think it’s a red herring. Sony first party games will look better than anything on Xbox and the talk is at least for now multiplats will too. Will be interesting to see how the good the controller is. The touch pad on the ds4 was gimmicky but better triggers, rumble and sound from the speaker sounds like solid upgrades.

[Skeeve]

Actually, gamepass includes all their first party titles from day of release, it won't just be last gen stuff at all.

As far as the power difference, it won't be a red herring at all, the only thing potentially holding it back right now with multiplatform games is a lot of devs are not very impressed with the dev environment for it, but that's obviously something that they can remedy fairly readily you would expect.

[jackh]

Apologies if I'm covering old ground here, but can somebody explain the plan with 'upscaling' and 'remasters' for me?

I was gifted a few games on the PS3 (GTA V, The Last of Us, and Tomb Raider) which I never actually got around to playing before getting the PS4 - these games were all later released on the PS4.

I've got a few games on the PS4 (Horizon, Red Dead II, and Shadow of the Tomb Raider) which I've not actually yet played (and I haven't even bought The Last of Us II yet).  I gather that - unlike with the PS4 - games won't be getting re-released on the PS5, but that remastered versions may be released via DLC using the backwards compatibility and the existing PS4 discs...

Have I got that right?

[db1animal]

Apologies if I'm covering old ground here, but can somebody explain the plan with 'upscaling' and 'remasters' for me?

I was gifted a few games on the PS3 (GTA V, The Last of Us, and Tomb Raider) which I never actually got around to playing before getting the PS4 - these games were all later released on the PS4.

I've got a few games on the PS4 (Horizon, Red Dead II, and Shadow of the Tomb Raider) which I've not actually yet played (and I haven't even bought The Last of Us II yet).  I gather that - unlike with the PS4 - games won't be getting re-released on the PS5, but that remastered versions may be released via DLC using the backwards compatibility and the existing PS4 discs...

Have I got that right?

No & Yes
Most PS4 games will play as standard on PS5, one would expect a bit better (more stable frame rate, quicker loads times etc) due to the better hardware. PlayStation still haven’t confirmed anything specific in regards to upscalling PS4 on PS5.

Remastered or PS5 versions of games depends on the developer, CD Project Red (Witcher 3 & Cyberpunk 2077) have promised free next gen upgrades for both games coming in 2021.

Spider-Man PS4 version will play on PS5 but not upgraded.
Spider-Man PS5 remastered version is only available with the PS5 Spider-Man Miles Morales Ultimate Edition,
But Spider-Man Miles Morales PS4 version will have a free upgrade to the PS5 version, but doesn’t have the ultimate edition option to get the Spider-Man PS5 version (correction there will be an option to purchase the Spider-Man remaster as an add-on to the PS4 version of Spider-Man Miles Morales, when you upgrade it to the PS5 version)
(Confused yet?!?)

Ultimately it’s a case by case basis. The big thing of course if you have purchased PS4 games digitally you’ll be able to download on either PS5 or PS5 digital, if you have PS4 games on disc DO NOT BUY THE PS5 DIGITAL there is no way to transfer those purchases.

[jackh]

No & Yes
Most PS4 games will play as standard on PS5, one would expect a bit better (more stable frame rate, quicker loads times etc) due to the better hardware. PlayStation still haven’t confirmed anything specific in regards to upscalling PS4 on PS5.

Remastered or PS5 versions of games depends on the developer, CD Project Red (Witcher 3 & Cyberpunk 2077) have promised free next gen upgrades for both games coming in 2021.

Spider-Man PS4 version will play on PS5 but not upgraded.
Spider-Man PS5 remastered version is only available with the PS5 Spider-Man Miles Morales Ultimate Edition,
But Spider-Man Miles Morales PS4 version will have a free upgrade to the PS5 version.
(Confused yet?!?)

Ultimately it’s a case by case basis. The big thing of course if you have purchased PS4 games digitally you’ll be able to download on either PS5 or PS5 digital, if you have PS4 games on disc DO NOT BUY THE PS5 DIGITAL there is no way to transfer those purchases.

Thanks - I think I understand that there isn't anything clear to understand yet

To be honest, it's only those three games anyway and Tomb Raider is probably already too old for them to be bothered about.  Red Dead II I can see them thinking is worth further investment (particularly given it'll presumably be years before any follow-up), and - from what I understand - Horizon is considered a bit of a PS4 classic so might get the special treatment too (perhaps even as a warm-up for the proper follow-up next year)?

Was planning on getting the disc version anyway to be honest - tend to get a decent sell-on price for some of the annual sports titles (Pro Evo & F1) and The Last of Us II, for example, is currently a tenner cheaper on Simply Games than it is on the PS Store.

[db1animal]

Thanks - I think I understand that there isn't anything clear to understand yet

To be honest, it's only those three games anyway and Tomb Raider is probably already too old for them to be bothered about.  Red Dead II I can see them thinking is worth further investment (particularly given it'll presumably be years before any follow-up), and - from what I understand - Horizon is considered a bit of a PS4 classic so might get the special treatment too (perhaps even as a warm-up for the proper follow-up next year)?

Was planning on getting the disc version anyway to be honest - tend to get a decent sell-on price for some of the annual sports titles (Pro Evo & F1) and The Last of Us II, for example, is currently a tenner cheaper on Simply Games than it is on the PS Store.

You got it 
GTA V is getting an ‘Expanded & Enhanced’ version next year, Red Dead Redemption 2 nothing confirmed yet but I wouldn’t be surprised to hear something before Nov 10th, doubt it will be free though, I’m still hoping they add a remastered version of the Original Red Dead Redemption if they do I’ll happily buy it again.

Horizon Zero Dawn, I think there’s a fair chance it may get the same treatment as Spider-Man (both PS exclusive studios) and they confirmed Horizon 2 Forbidden West is getting a PS4 version.

Tomb Raider, Square Enix may do a remastered collection of the 3 games together, Tomb Raider 2013, Rise & Shadow but it would be a full priced thing, plus they’re busy with Marvel’s Avengers, so I wouldn’t expect it any time soon unless it gets farmed out to a independent/support studio to work on.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Missed out on the pre orders but I will definitely pick one up. Will most likely get the digital one. Was considering the Xbox but they just don’t make games that I like.Gamepass sounds good but it will be all last gen Bar the odd game as they don’t make many and ps plus is doing the same with far better games all be it no new first party will end up there for a few years.

As for the power difference, I think it’s a red herring. Sony first party games will look better than anything on Xbox and the talk is at least for now multiplats will too. Will be interesting to see how the good the controller is. The touch pad on the ds4 was gimmicky but better triggers, rumble and sound from the speaker sounds like solid upgrades.

That's exactly how I feel about the PS exclusives to be honest, even though I've owned a PS4 (then Pro) for 5 years, I've only ever really enjoyed TLOU and Uncharted series (both remastered), and Detroit Become Human, tried almost every other exclusive and just didn't enjoy any of them, they seem to be mostly 3rd person adventure/open world games, and to be honest I'm completely burned out by open world games, the Xbox on the other hand is a system I'd buy just to play the Forza franchise.

[lfcrule6times]

Had an email from Smyth's just now. More ps5 pre orders available tomorrow lunchtime

[lionel_messias]

Had an email from Smyth's just now. More ps5 pre orders available tomorrow lunchtime

They'll go on at 12.00, be gone by 12.03.

F5!

[AndyMuller]

Has anybody even seen the UI for this yet?

[Stand Free]

Has anybody even seen the UI for this yet?

No, not been revealed yet, hopefully soon but no word currently

[MBL?]

That's exactly how I feel about the PS exclusives to be honest, even though I've owned a PS4 (then Pro) for 5 years, I've only ever really enjoyed TLOU and Uncharted series (both remastered), and Detroit Become Human, tried almost every other exclusive and just didn't enjoy any of them, they seem to be mostly 3rd person adventure/open world games, and to be honest I'm completely burned out by open world games, the Xbox on the other hand is a system I'd buy just to play the Forza franchise.

Forza is the one I’d really like to play, haven’t played it since the 360 days.

Actually, gamepass includes all their first party titles from day of release, it won't just be last gen stuff at all.

What first party titles? I could be wrong but it doesn’t seem like they are releasing anything big for ages on next gen.

I also don’t see how they will be able to afford to make many big games when the are charging around 10 a month for everything on gamepass.

[Graeme]

More pre-order stock on Amazon tomorrow if anyone interested

[Ed-Zeppelin]

I also don’t see how they will be able to afford to make many big games when the are charging around 10 a month for everything on gamepass.

It’s actually a brilliant model, I think, for game developers. They current have around 15 million subscribers so that’s ~$150m per month coming in steadily. That will pay for an awful lot of games development and provide additional security compared to the peaks and troughs of income you’d have had previously. Online game revenue would help also, see Rockstar’s new model now.

On top of that you share the risk of a failed game across developers. If one big game bombs and doesn’t do well that’s offset by others that do and people carry on subscribing.

The more I’ve thought about I’d be amazed if Sony didn’t try something similar. If they could get even half of the PS+ subscribers to go to a monthly model they’d make a lot from it.

[AndyMuller]

It’s actually a brilliant model, I think, for game developers. They current have around 15 million subscribers so that’s ~$150m per month coming in steadily. That will pay for an awful lot of games development and provide additional security compared to the peaks and troughs of income you’d have had previously. Online game revenue would help also, see Rockstar’s new model now.

On top of that you share the risk of a failed game across developers. If one big game bombs and doesn’t do well that’s offset by others that do and people carry on subscribing.

The more I’ve thought about I’d be amazed if Sony didn’t try something similar. If they could get even half of the PS+ subscribers to go to a monthly model they’d make a lot from it.

Most people I know who use it have paid £1 which has covered them for the next 3 years so I doubt MS are making 150 mil a month off it.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Most people I know who use it have paid £1 which has covered them for the next 3 years so I doubt MS are making 150 mil a month off it.

£1 for 3 years?, news to me

[AndyMuller]

£1 for 3 years?, news to me

I don’t know you do I?

[Skeeve]

Most people I know who use it have paid £1 which has covered them for the next 3 years so I doubt MS are making 150 mil a month off it.

Was that an upgrade from an existing sub or something?

[clinical]

Anyone know when the PS5 black edition is out? The white version looks absolutely disgusting. Alright for kids bedroom but that's about it. 

[naYoRHa2b]

Was that an upgrade from an existing sub or something?

If you paid a pound you rolled in your existing gold sub. There's people with 2-3 years of gold stacked.

In fact you can still stack gold I guess if you go to somewhere like cdkeys and then upgrade to Gamepass for a quid. Still works out cheaper than 3 years of Gamepass stacked. Can only do it once though