Topic: Catalan Independence

[Xabi Gerrard]

Maybe Tepid could have phased it this way and sounded like less of a twat.

Has he had a post deleted or something? Looking back I can't see anything he's said that warrants being called a twat.

[TepidT2O]

Has he had a post deleted or something? Looking back I can't see anything he's said that warrants being called a twat.

Err, no.. I haven’t deleted anything..
Frankly I’m a bit confused..  I was just trying to point out that Wales etc were principalities so would be different (although you have told me that Monaco is a sovereign nation which I didn’t fully appreciate).

I’m merely trying to suggest why a team might get not be able to play in another country’s league.. not whether I think it’s the right action or not...

Bloody confused here to be honest...

[Sarge]

The facist spirit of Franco is alive and kicking.

[Sarge]

I hope Barcelona embarrasses Las Palmas 10-0

Game is off.

[Sarge]

ETA are basques aren’t they?

Yes

[reniformis]

So, I'm confused. I understand that the referendum is illegal. But who's actually breaking the law? The Catalan government? The people manning the polling booths? The voters?

[Kenny's Jacket]

Err, no.. I haven’t deleted anything..
Frankly I’m a bit confused..  I was just trying to point out that Wales etc were principalities so would be different (although you have told me that Monaco is a sovereign nation which I didn’t fully appreciate).

I’m merely trying to suggest why a team might get not be able to play in another country’s league.. not whether I think it’s the right action or not...

Bloody confused here to be honest...

There are non inflammatory ways of making a point. See Elmo as an example who made the same point in a much better and inflammatory way,

You sounded like Kerry Kop on a wind up in a Rugby thread. 

[Sarge]

So, I'm confused. I understand that the referendum is illegal. But who's actually breaking the law? The Catalan government? The people manning the polling booths? The voters?

All of them acording to the Spainish Central Government.

[Gerry Attrick]

Err, no.. I haven’t deleted anything..
Frankly I’m a bit confused..  I was just trying to point out that Wales etc were principalities so would be different (although you have told me that Monaco is a sovereign nation which I didn’t fully appreciate).

I’m merely trying to suggest why a team might get not be able to play in another country’s league.. not whether I think it’s the right action or not...

Bloody confused here to be honest...

You need to watch more episodes of Pointless 

[TepidT2O]

There are non inflammatory ways of making a point. See Elmo as an example who made the same point in a much better and inflammatory way,

You sounded like Kerry Kop on a wind up in a Rugby thread. 

Genuinely fucking absurd. 

Each to their own though.

[TepidT2O]

So, I'm confused. I understand that the referendum is illegal. But who's actually breaking the law? The Catalan government? The people manning the polling booths? The voters?

If they’d done nothing, there would have been very little protest.

They’ve handled this very badly indeed...

[Sarge]

Seen the video of the lad wrapped inthe Spainish flag who got an ovation from the Catalans? Class.

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Seen the video of the lad wrapped inthe Spainish flag who got an ovation from the Catalans? Class.

Put it up, I'd like to see that.

[Sarge]

Put it up, I'd like to see that.

If i knew how Paul Its on Twitter so how do I get a link for it?

https://twitter.com/thespainreport/status/914476743452495872

[Yorkykopite]

Terrible scenes here   

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/914466967054159873

To quote Orwell in 'Homage to Catalonia' "if you see a policeman kicking a man on the ground you shouldn't need to ask whose side you're on".

[Kenny's Jacket]

Genuinely fucking absurd. 

Each to their own though.

Nah, its not.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

6m ago 14:18

Radio Catalonia journalist Mar Riera Sola has posted footage of police charging at a crowd while entering the village of Sant Iscle de Vallalta, 50 km north-east of Barcelona.

https://twitter.com/marrierasola/status/914441327613497345?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2Flive%2F2017%2Foct%2F01%2Fcatalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

Riot thugs turning up in a Village ffs.

[TepidT2O]

What do we think of the independence movement?

At the surface it seems motivated by self interest as the region is a net contributor to Spain...

Obviously more to it than that, but this seems a common theme across Europe at the moment, leaving the EU for similar reasons...

[Xabi Gerrard]

What do we think of the independence movement?

At the surface it seems motivated by self interest as the region is a net contributor to Spain...

Obviously more to it than that, but this seems a common theme across Europe at the moment, leaving the EU for similar reasons...

Seems a worrying trend across the West at the moment. People becoming more insular, more 'looking after ones self', more isolationist. Is it fallout from increasing inequality - as more wealth gets accumulated by fewer people, the majority become relatively poorer leading to a sense of unfairness and blaming anyone who's not them for their malaise? I guess however much we build layers of civility onto ourselves, we can't escape from the fact that deep down we're a tribal species.

[Sarge]

What do we think of the independence movement?

At the surface it seems motivated by self interest as the region is a net contributor to Spain...

Obviously more to it than that, but this seems a common theme across Europe at the moment, leaving the EU for similar reasons...

Of course its self interest, its about the self determination of a state looking to become a sovereign state. Plus yes Catalonia would be a major part of the entire Spanish economy and why the Central Government is worried due to the peoples referendum.

[TepidT2O]

Anyway, the Barca game is on, but their supporters club says they will invade the pitch to stop it...

[Elmo!]

What do we think of the independence movement?

At the surface it seems motivated by self interest as the region is a net contributor to Spain...

Obviously more to it than that, but this seems a common theme across Europe at the moment, leaving the EU for similar reasons...

I believe Catalonia has significantly less devolved powers than other regions like the Basque country as well which is another source of support for independence.

[killer-heels]

What do we think of the independence movement?

At the surface it seems motivated by self interest as the region is a net contributor to Spain...

Obviously more to it than that, but this seems a common theme across Europe at the moment, leaving the EU for similar reasons...

I would support it. If they want indpendence and want to govern themselves, then why not?

[thejbs]

Err, no.. I haven’t deleted anything..
Frankly I’m a bit confused..  I was just trying to point out that Wales etc were principalities so would be different (although you have told me that Monaco is a sovereign nation which I didn’t fully appreciate).

I’m merely trying to suggest why a team might get not be able to play in another country’s league.. not whether I think it’s the right action or not...

Bloody confused here to be honest...

Derry City is a perfect example then. Derry is a City in Northern Ireland which has its own league AND is part of the UK.  Derry City, the local team, play in the Republic of Ireland's football league.

FC Andorra is from Andorra, a sovereign nation, yet play in the Spanish league system and have done so since 1948.  That shows the Spanish league can and do take in teams from other sovereign nations. This would make any claim denying Barcelona entry to La Liga open to hypocrisy.

La Liga is all bluster at the moment. There's next to no chance they would expel Barcelona from the Spanish league.  Money > nationalism.

[Anywhichwayicant]

Isn't there an article somewhere within the German EU handbook that says that if a member state uses turns the police on its citizens, that they'll be thrown out of Germany the EU?

[TepidT2O]

I would support it. If they want indpendence and want to govern themselves, then why not?

Me? I don’t think nationalist movements are a good thing.  Where people speak the same language and their isnt discrimination or violence towards one group of people, then I’ve always thought it absurdly tribal. We’re beyter than them because... etc...etc

Generally we’re better and stronger together as groups who look out for each other.

[TepidT2O]

Barca game to be played behind closed doors..

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Anyway, the Barca game is on, but their supporters club says they will invade the pitch to stop it...

What time do they KO ?

[Elmo!]

What time do they KO ?

3.15

[WhereAngelsPlay]

The Spanish interior ministry continue.

    Exposing children to this type of situation and using them during the day is another sign of intolerable unreason

Cheeky fucker,had his gov not sent in the storm troopers the kids wouldn't be in that situation.

Knobheads.

[killer-heels]

Me? I don’t think nationalist movements are a good thing.  Where people speak the same language and their isnt discrimination or violence towards one group of people, then I’ve always thought it absurdly tribal. We’re beyter than them because... etc...etc

Generally we’re better and stronger together as groups who look out for each other.

You can look after others with independent states also. There doesnt have to be a union to have harmony and sometimes that causes more resentment.

[Crosby Nick]

There are non inflammatory ways of making a point. See Elmo as an example who made the same point in a much better and inflammatory way,

You sounded like Kerry Kop on a wind up in a Rugby thread. 

He really didn't.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

3.15

Las Palmas are twats

Barcelona - Las Palmas to be played behind closed doors

FC Barcelona has announced their La Liga clash with Las Palmas will be played behind closed doors.

In a statement, the Catalan club said: “FC Barcelona condemn the events which have taken place in many parts of Catalonia today in order to prevent its citizens exercising their democractic rights to free expression.

“Given the exceptional nature of events, the Board of Directors have decided that the FC Barcelona first team game against Las Palmas will be played behind closed doors following the Professional Football League’s refusal to postpone the game.”

The Catalan Football Federation had already suspended all matches due to referendum, but FC Barcelona are not under their jurisdiction.

Earlier today, Las Palmas announced a Spanish flag had been sewn onto their kit for the game to show support for “the unity of Spain”.

[Sarge]

Just a point.

Its not about Football.

[Sarge]

We will Vote. The voice of the people.

https://twitter.com/whkfrs/status/914455028198502400

[TepidT2O]

You can look after others with independent states also. There doesnt have to be a union to have harmony and sometimes that causes more resentment.

You can, but let’s be honest it seldom does

[killer-heels]

You can, but let’s be honest it seldom does

The idea of looking after together isnt always as strong either, plus it can build resentment, as you can see towards/from London or most relevant, Scotland.

[Elmo!]

Me? I don’t think nationalist movements are a good thing.  Where people speak the same language and their isnt discrimination or violence towards one group of people, then I’ve always thought it absurdly tribal. We’re beyter than them because... etc...etc

Generally we’re better and stronger together as groups who look out for each other.

IMO this is such an outdated and simplistic way of looking at things. What makes the current make up of nations perfect? Do we just have to accept that the way it is now is the way it should always be? For me I'd prefer to see the EU being made up of a lot of smaller, more nimble countries able to manage their own affairs to suit them while working together in the EU for matters best managed at that level. Rather than having the EU dominated by 4 or 5 huge countries that are too big to be able to adjust quickly to the changing world around them. The evidence suggests to me that the smaller western european countries produce the best outcomes in terms of happiness, wealth distribution and education.

Dismissing all 'nationalist' movements as a case of 'we're better than them' is frankly ignorant.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Just a point.

Its not about Football.

All the fans are still outside the perimeter.



Loud speaker here. But no-one using it. Amazingly, fans still not being told game is to be played behind closed doors.

https://twitter.com/tsf_podcast/status/914489599950491648

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Another video of police brutality has emerged. This time, Spanish police have been recorded attacking Catalan firefighters.
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/914473277443031041