Topic: Tories really really aren't very nice at all are they? (***)

[WhereAngelsPlay]

She's apologized, but clearly more is needed here...

Perhaps some reconciliation work like Naz Shah?

People have been very quick to call her a racist.  They may be right, but in my experience most people who use this kind of language aren't.  Ignorant?  Thoughtless? Insensitive? Oh yes, but not necessarily racist..

Does she have any form on this sort of thing?  That's possibly important.

What's really bad is that she knows that this language isn't acceptable, but she felt ok to use it where she thought it wouldn't be broadcast.

She has lots of form at being a toal c*nt & her partner/agent is also know for using racist language.

[SP]

She needs to be sacked and the Tories will sack her. No way she escapes this with her job still intact.

They suspend her indefinitely, telling her that if she votes with the whip, they will let her back in before the next election. They get seen to take strong action, but they do not make the parliamentary arithmetic worse.

She is just being put in the stocks for a while.

[killer-heels]

They suspend her indefinitely, telling her that if she votes with the whip, they will let her back in before the next election. They get seen to take strong action, but they do not make the parliamentary arithmetic worse.

She is just being put in the stocks for a while.

Is that has what happened or an opinion?

[Alan_X]

Just another brief detour into the world of disability and the DWP. You'll probably all hear a lot about 'Work Conversations' over the next few months as people get pushed into them. When a disabled person gets put onto ESA (the benefit if you're unable to work due to ill health), they'll be expected (ie sanctioned if they don't attend) to head to one of the remaining job centres and partake (ie sanctioned if they don't) in a conversation based upon what's stopping them from working and how to fix it (no sanctions if you don't do this bit afterwards).

The whole thing is based upon the idea that the real problem with disabled people is that they just aren't positive enough. They don't have the right mindset to go to work. A growth mindset. This is the highly scientific evidence used to train Work Coaches in this concept:



Source

See the yellow blobs? They happen when you have a growth mindset.

It's like a really shite version of CBT but with added potential for really damaging people by placing them within a set of false assumptions.

Dr.Jay Watts, consultant clinical psychologist, has described the dangers in terms of mental health: "Guilt and shame are central to so many mental health problems (and obviously the governmental discourse have made many claimants feel like this). This form [used in the conversation] will press on those emotions, making life more unbearable and increasing suicide risk. The suggestions in the form that this is not for now will not help. They set up a trajectory of moving to work which is not achievable for many, making people feel they do not have a worth otherwise. This is not only unethical but will end up increasing healthcare costs."

As I said, expect to hear more about this as people get sanctioned for being too ill to attend, too ill to have the conversation, and need help after being told that the only problem they have is one they should be able to fix with a quick session of inspiration porn.

What the actual fuck?

[SP]

Is that has what happened or an opinion?

An opinion.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Is that has what happened or an opinion?

I cannot find anything that says she has been suspended indefinitely

[killer-heels]

An opinion.

I would be amazed if she isnt sacked. The Tories have a shit rep with the ethnically diverse communities anyway so this is the last thing they need. She will be investigated and most likely sacked.

The interesting thing also in the story was how an ardent eurosceptic is actually worried about a no deal Brexit.

[TepidT2O]

I would be amazed if she isnt sacked. The Tories have a shit rep with the ethnically diverse communities anyway so this is the last thing they need. She will be investigated and most likely sacked.

The interesting thing also in the story was how an ardent eurosceptic is actually worried about a no deal Brexit.

That's a good point... amidst the furore, that's the crucial thing here..

[Zeb]

What the actual fuck?

Just before the election was called, I was preparing evidence to be submitted against the ideas in a Green Paper. The whole slant of the paper was along the lines of 'the dignity of work cures disability, therefore how do we force more disabled people into work to cure them?'. I'd think they were genuinely clueless but they're getting the best advice possible and rejecting it because it doesn't seem to fit in with their desire to divide the sick between the deserving and the morally flawed.

[CornerFlag]

And the teachers pay cap stays at 1%

It's genuinely making me think whether entering education is the best choice.  They don't care about the future generations at all.

[TepidT2O]

It's genuinely making me think whether entering education is the best choice.  They don't care about the future generations at all.

That's why we need people who do care.....

[CornerFlag]

That's why we need people who do care.....

Know anyone who's about education, education, education?

[TepidT2O]

Know anyone who's about education, education, education?

It's why I do it.  I'd rather we got 1% extra to spend than a pointless pay rise myself...
In real terms my pay has dropped by over Ł4K since 2010 though...  that's unsustainable...

[CornerFlag]

It's why I do it.  I'd rather we got 1% extra to spend than a pointless pay rise myself...
In real terms my pay has dropped by over Ł4K since 2010 though...  that's unsustainable...

There was a cracking piece in the TES a couple of months ago explaining the relative drop in education's share of GDP and given how schools are going to increase in demand essentially it's completely unsustainable for these shower of c*nts to starve a) those in education being taught and b) those doing the teaching if you want to move the country forward via the abilities of the next generation.  It's robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[west_london_red]

I would be amazed if she isnt sacked. The Tories have a shit rep with the ethnically diverse communities anyway so this is the last thing they need. She will be investigated and most likely sacked.

The interesting thing also in the story was how an ardent eurosceptic is actually worried about a no deal Brexit.

This is the thing I never understand with ethnic minority Tory voters or even MPs such as my own local MP Kwasi Kwateng, how do you reconcile supporting the Tory party when there is an element within the party that still thinks of you as n*gger, w*g, c*ink or some 19th century racial slur?

[TravisBickle]

Those comments from Morris are utterly disgusting and her Tory colleagues, many of whom have done a lot of good work on anti-racism, should put pressure on her to resign as an MP. There is zero place for someone who uses that sort of language in Parliament. None. Zero. It's disgraceful.

[SP]

This is the thing I never understand with ethnic minority Tory voters or even MPs such as my own local MP Kwasi Kwateng, how do you reconcile supporting the Tory party when there is an element within the party that still thinks of you as n*gger, w*g, c*ink or some 19th century racial slur?

You could ask the same question about Labour and Jewish voters.  There are elements within every party that are offensive to some people. Say Kate Hoey for example. At various points Trada has held similar opinions of 80% of the Labour MPs.

Selecting a party to vote for is always a compromise.  The lunatic fringe is probably a lesser concern for them.

[TravisBickle]

You could ask the same question about Labour and Jewish voters.  There are elements within every party that are offensive to some people. Say Kate Hoey for example. At various points Trada has held similar opinions of 80% of the Labour MPs.

Selecting a party to vote for is always a compromise.  The lunatic fringe is probably a lesser concern for them.

 I'd also point out the lunatic fringe is very much not the fringe with one of our major parties, on the issue of racism at least. And that isn't the Tory Party,

[TepidT2O]

I'd also point out the lunatic fringe is very much not the fringe with one of our major parties, on the issue of racism at least. And that isn't the Tory Party,

Owen Jones was condemning Redwood for failing to condemn her.... now the man is utterly loathsome but it seems a touch unreasonable to expect that

[Brissyred]

The whole slant of the paper was along the lines of 'the dignity of work cures disability, therefore how do we force more disabled people into work to cure them?'.

Arbeit macht frei..........

[west_london_red]

I'd also point out the lunatic fringe is very much not the fringe with one of our major parties, on the issue of racism at least. And that isn't the Tory Party,

What does 'not the fringe' mean exactly? A large minority? A majority? What exactly are you basing this on?

[TravisBickle]

Owen Jones was condemning Redwood for failing to condemn her.... now the man is utterly loathsome but it seems a touch unreasonable to expect that

 Condemning Redwood and Cash for not calling out Morris' racism is legitimate. I'd expect any politician to take their colleagues up on the use of such dated, racist language. However, Owen Jones is one of the last people on earth who can lecture anyone about sharing platforms with dodgy people given the work he's done for Corbyn and McDonnell. Raging hypocrite he is.

[Trada]

The Maybot reboot was really bad this morning.

There must had been an error in the update code.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Condemning Redwood and Cash for not calling out Morris' racism is legitimate. I'd expect any politician to take their colleagues up on the use of such dated, racist language. However, Owen Jones is one of the last people on earth who can lecture anyone about sharing platforms with dodgy people given the work he's done for Corbyn and McDonnell. Raging hypocrite he is.

they didn't at the time but they could have brought it up afterwards, if someone is being a twat in a meeting i don't bring it up then but I do afterward

As for Owen

[Trada]

Kay Burley interviewing someone who was at the meeting and he said no one heard the racial slur at the meeting thats why no one challenged her over it.

Well thats totally believable.

[classycarra]

Kay Burley interviewing someone who was at the meeting and he said no one heard the racial slur at the meeting thats why no one challenged her over it.

Well thats totally believable.

Do you think the other MPs that were there should face some action for not speaking up against racist/xenophobic language?

[Trada]

Do you think the other MPs that were there should face some action for not speaking up against racist/xenophobic language?

Of course not they will just say they didn't hear what she said.

It was something about she was speaking so fast.

[classycarra]

Of course not they will just say they didn't hear what she said.

It was something about she was speaking so fast.

Sorry mate, I wasn't clear. I asked what you think should happen. Not what you think will happen

[west_london_red]

Condemning Redwood and Cash for not calling out Morris' racism is legitimate. I'd expect any politician to take their colleagues up on the use of such dated, racist language. However, Owen Jones is one of the last people on earth who can lecture anyone about sharing platforms with dodgy people given the work he's done for Corbyn and McDonnell. Raging hypocrite he is.

Are you suggesting Corbyn and McDonnell are racists?

[classycarra]

Are you suggesting Corbyn and McDonnell are racists?

Not sure how you've reached that conclusion. May be wrong, but thought it seemed clear he was suggesting that Corbyn has shared platforms with racists, which can't really be contested

[west_london_red]

Not sure how you've reached that conclusion. May be wrong, but thought it seemed clear he was suggesting that Corbyn has shared platforms with racists, which can't really be contested

He seemed to be saying that Jones was a hypocrite to criticise Redwood and Cash for not calling out Morris (a presumed racist) when Jones himself worked with Corbyn and McDonnell. To me that implies that Travis is saying Corbyn and McDonnell are equatable with Morris.

[TepidT2O]

Condemning Redwood and Cash for not calling out Morris' racism is legitimate. I'd expect any politician to take their colleagues up on the use of such dated, racist language. However, Owen Jones is one of the last people on earth who can lecture anyone about sharing platforms with dodgy people given the work he's done for Corbyn and McDonnell. Raging hypocrite he is.

Such as this politician failing to condem a politician describing Israel/Jews as an evil?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-1JUztMcg9A

Guess who!

[SP]

Attacking Corbyn in the Tory thread. Again.

Or pointing out hypocrisy. If you can't find a criticism of the Tories without the same charge being applicable to Corbyn, you really are trying hard enough.

[TravisBickle]

Are you suggesting Corbyn and McDonnell are racists?

 I don't know if they are or not but they certainly hold in high regard people who are the most disgusting anti-Semites imaginable. If they aren't racist, they are stupid old men who play with fire in the belief fire isn't hot.

[west_london_red]

I don't know if they are or not but they certainly hold in high regard people who are the most disgusting anti-Semites imaginable. If they aren't racist, they are stupid old men who play with fire in the belief fire isn't hot.

So you don't know if they are or aren't racists but it's ok to compare them to someone who openly used racist language when talking about racism?

[killer-heels]

The Tories are taking the fucking piss with this debate around MP's abuse and blaming the left. Clearly Momentum and the left does have a considerable amount of clueless c*nts but the Tories are an utter disgrace with their national campaigns, especially the London Mayoral Campaign, which was one of the most racist campaign in decades.

[TravisBickle]

So you don't know if they are or aren't racists but it's ok to compare them to someone who openly used racist language when talking about racism?

 I didn't compare them to Morris. I compared them to Redwood and Cash.

[killer-heels]

4% drop in British applicants and 5% drop in foreign applicants to university in the UK. So has Blair's ambition now been completely killed by the Tories and Lib Dems?

[stewil007]

4% drop in British applicants and 5% drop in foreign applicants to university in the UK. So has Blair's ambition now been completely killed by the Tories and Lib Dems?

its ok, as we need people to stop going to university and start their careers in picking fruit and vegeatbles

[SP]

its ok, as we need people to stop going to university and start their careers in picking fruit and vegeatbles

University may not be the right choice. A poor degree may not be worth the time and money it takes. The travesty is the dearth of quality alternatives. Under the massive expansion of University places all of the alternatives got sidelined. A slight fall in university places may not be a bad thing, if it is coupled with a massive increase in apprenticeships and proper vocational training.