Author Topic: The Labour Party (*)  (Read 883827 times)

Offline Trada

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2016, 07:37:26 pm »
To solve some of the housing crisis for first time buyer and for people to rent I wonder if councils have thought of container homes.

They are cheap and no way as bad as they sound  I would live in one.

http://www.container-housing.co.uk/container-homes-costs/

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/MtkfHud0Fv0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/MtkfHud0Fv0</a>

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2016, 07:39:46 pm »
Who is to say that they wouldnt still vote for them regardless of what strengths they have? They might be seen as a bit shit on the economy but their message may still cut through?

If anything has come clear is that everything now is up for grabs.
id say trust in the economy will be a very big factor in the coming months with the brexit impact, granted the Tories have a long way to fall and labour have plenty to improve upon but it's hardly encouraging for labour is it that they're are lagging by so much right now

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2016, 07:42:31 pm »
To solve some of the housing crisis for first time buyer and for people to rent I wonder if councils have thought of container homes.

They are cheap and no way as bad as they sound  I would live in one.

http://www.container-housing.co.uk/container-homes-costs/

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/MtkfHud0Fv0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/MtkfHud0Fv0</a>
surely more of a rental idea than for buyers? Can't see them being that easy to sell on so may reduce the appeal for first time buyers who are looking more for something to own and sell on a few years down the line to move somewhere else?

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2016, 07:43:11 pm »
To solve some of the housing crisis for first time buyer and for people to rent I wonder if councils have thought of container homes.

They are cheap and no way as bad as they sound  I would live in one.

http://www.container-housing.co.uk/container-homes-costs/

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/MtkfHud0Fv0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/MtkfHud0Fv0</a>



There was something on Daily Politics about flat pack houses. Seemed sensible although a bit weird.

I think we will see traction with housebuilding though soon. Along with jobs and security its the number 1 issue in the UK and governments are going to have to bow to some demands after whats happened this year.

Offline KiNki

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2016, 07:53:17 pm »
theyre polling around 30% so wouldn't expect much more than that
true but they don't tend to be wrong by such a massive amount

polls aren't set in stone, not everyone is honest with polls, and things change, but for every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction.  You keep parroting that the left is dead in the water...i'm not sure who you are trying to convince - the facts are you've just had 8 years of a left party in america and 47 percent of america's voted for it again, in comparison to 48 per cent of american right, brexit had similar voting figures on a single issue - in or out.  In both cases the major cities voted left of the political divide and the hillbillies for the right.

We have a pm in who nobody voted for and a seemingly unpopular opposition leader.   We've always had new labour that came and went with blair and the response was to reclaim socialist values - an equal and opposite reaction, whether it continues to grow is anyones guess but there's always be a left of the political divide.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2016, 08:10:54 pm »
polls aren't set in stone, not everyone is honest with polls, and things change, but for every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction.  You keep parroting that the left is dead in the water...i'm not sure who you are trying to convince - the facts are you've just had 8 years of a left party in america and 47 percent of america's voted for it again, in comparison to 48 per cent of american right, brexit had similar voting figures on a single issue - in or out.  In both cases the major cities voted left of the political divide and the hillbillies for the right.

We have a pm in who nobody voted for and a seemingly unpopular opposition leader.   We've always had new labour that came and went with blair and the response was to reclaim socialist values - an equal and opposite reaction, whether it continues to grow is anyones guess but there's always be a left of the political divide.
youre right that polls aren't set in stone but can you see them turning it around at all when their actions so far hint otherwise?

you really think the democrats are on the left???

Not saying the left is dead, they need to get much better people to spearhead it. And referring to those who voted brexit/trump as hillbillies isn't going to help the cause is it?

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2016, 08:10:57 pm »
To solve some of the housing crisis for first time buyer and for people to rent I wonder if councils have thought of container homes.

They are cheap and no way as bad as they sound  I would live in one.

http://www.container-housing.co.uk/container-homes-costs/

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/MtkfHud0Fv0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/MtkfHud0Fv0</a>


A sticking plaster...

If you don't build proper houses quickly, they could become the worst kind of sink estates...
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Offline Greyfox

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2016, 08:14:16 pm »
I must confess that this is a true=ism. there will always be a "left", there will always be a "right", it is the nature of politics...

The problem is what is needed to convert the views of the "left" into the REALITY of power. I cannot see anything that, in the current option, attracts the electorate. Without that might as well be the Judean Popular Peoples Front, or the Popular Front of the Judean People (splitters)...

Offline KiNki

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2016, 08:32:39 pm »
you really think the democrats are on the left???

about as left as new labour, they pandered to the centralist point of view to secure election, and why not, for about 30 years, whoever we voted for the government always got in leading to ever decreasing voting figures.  What's the point? Capitalist after capitalist? Leaders from oxbridge or cambridge.  In the same period we've had a public pronouncements from the extreme far right of the middle east - death to westerners which has culminated into the pimple that is ISIS, leading to an equal and opposite reaction of far right groups coming to brexit and trump, and in response to that there'll be a growing movement to move away from hate and intolerance towards something else which is inclusive and social. 

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2016, 08:45:24 pm »
about as left as new labour, they pandered to the centralist point of view to secure election, and why not, for about 30 years, whoever we voted for the government always got in leading to ever decreasing voting figures.  What's the point? Capitalist after capitalist? Leaders from oxbridge or cambridge.  In the same period we've had a public pronouncements from the extreme far right of the middle east - death to westerners which has culminated into the pimple that is ISIS, leading to an equal and opposite reaction of far right groups coming to brexit and trump, and in response to that there'll be a growing movement to move away from hate and intolerance towards something else which is inclusive and social. 
and this is exactly why good leaders on the left are needed so this can be sped up, sadly I don't see any particularly good ones anytime soon here or in the us :(

Offline Greyfox

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #90 on: November 12, 2016, 08:45:56 pm »
Sorry, i'm confused now....Why the constant references to Democrats? The Internationalism is laudable, but the title of the thread references The Labour Party.

Can we not get our fucking "left" focused on the argument in the UK in hand, and then worry about the "left" in other countries?

Offline Trada

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #91 on: November 12, 2016, 09:05:33 pm »
A sticking plaster...

If you don't build proper houses quickly, they could become the worst kind of sink estates...

After the war they built loads of prefabs houses that was meant to be temporary until houses were rebuilt. we had loads  built just outside of Frome and people loved them and they are still lived in how and are very expensive when they come on the market.

Why should it be a sticky plaster just another type of housing.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #92 on: November 12, 2016, 09:14:22 pm »
After the war they built loads of prefabs houses that was meant to be temporary until houses were rebuilt. we had loads  built just outside of Frome and people loved them and they are still lived in how and are very expensive when they come on the market.

Why should it be a sticky plaster just another type of housing.

Still have lots of people living in them Chalet type houses in the middle of Nottingham
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Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline filopastry

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #93 on: November 13, 2016, 09:49:27 am »
The priorities of my local branch are pretty clear anyway, 3 motions up for debate at the next meeting.

One is Brexit related (the importance of retaining tariff free access to the single market and to maintain freedom of movement), the other 2 are, to request mandatory reselection of all MPs, and to reinstate Jackie Walker into the party.

Offline Circa1892

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #94 on: November 13, 2016, 10:11:03 am »
The priorities of my local branch are pretty clear anyway, 3 motions up for debate at the next meeting.

One is Brexit related (the importance of retaining tariff free access to the single market and to maintain freedom of movement), the other 2 are, to request mandatory reselection of all MPs, and to reinstate Jackie Walker into the party.

Absolute waste of time this party these days. The country/west is going to shit, and all the new "activists" care about is grabbing control of a political party. It's been clear for a long time that Momentum and the like care far more about winning control of Labour than "fighting the Tories". Well enjoy it.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #95 on: November 13, 2016, 10:19:05 am »
The priorities of my local branch are pretty clear anyway, 3 motions up for debate at the next meeting.

One is Brexit related (the importance of retaining tariff free access to the single market and to maintain freedom of movement), the other 2 are, to request mandatory reselection of all MPs, and to reinstate Jackie Walker into the party.

Incredible. Even the Brexit one is out of touch.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #96 on: November 13, 2016, 11:46:36 am »
A demilitarised zone between the west and Russia?


What could possibly go wrong???
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #97 on: November 13, 2016, 12:00:05 pm »
A demilitarised zone between the west and Russia?


What could possibly go wrong???

I'm not sure what you're implying here  ;D

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #98 on: November 13, 2016, 02:38:49 pm »
Next election campaign sorted then..

Kick off against your own side.

Cuddly 'ole John McDonnell eh?

Quote
‘I want to be in a situation where Tory MPs or Labour MPs, wherever they go, it’s f****** kicking off.

‘They turn up, there’s someone protesting, there’s someone written a slogan on a wall, there’s someone occupying. I want it happening all the time.’

I have to say.  If Trump and Brexit have taught me one thing, it's that kicking off like this changes no ones minds whatsoever.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline oldfordie

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #99 on: November 13, 2016, 03:01:30 pm »
Next election campaign sorted then..

Kick off against your own side.

Cuddly 'ole John McDonnell eh?

I have to say.  If Trump and Brexit have taught me one thing, it's that kicking off like this changes no ones minds whatsoever.
Yet they have the ammo to force May into possibly calling a GE next yr by uniting against the article 50 vote in parliament.only take a few Tory rebels and May will have to call a GE.
Even if Labour agree with Brexit they could argue we should fight to bring the Torys down and this is our opportunity, win the GE and implement the Brexit Labour want.
That would be the way to do it if they really did feel they have won the support of the people.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #100 on: November 13, 2016, 04:18:16 pm »
Next election campaign sorted then..

Kick off against your own side.

Cuddly 'ole John McDonnell eh?

I have to say.  If Trump and Brexit have taught me one thing, it's that kicking off like this changes no ones minds whatsoever.
to be fair 'fuck the disbelievers' is a great slogan

Yet they have the ammo to force May into possibly calling a GE next yr by uniting against the article 50 vote in parliament.only take a few Tory rebels and May will have to call a GE.
Even if Labour agree with Brexit they could argue we should fight to bring the Torys down and this is our opportunity, win the GE and implement the Brexit Labour want.
That would be the way to do it if they really did feel they have won the support of the people.
That requires things like intelligence, ability to anticipate future problems and show competence. All three are currently lacking at the top of the party.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #101 on: November 13, 2016, 05:46:15 pm »
to be fair 'fuck the disbelievers' is a great slogan
That requires things like intelligence, ability to anticipate future problems and show competence. All three are currently lacking at the top of the party.
Yeah it would but I doubt that would stop them if they believed they could bring the Torys down and handle this whole Brexit issue themselves. if they did that then there would be no need to fight to defend workers rights etc as they would be the ones in control of Bexit.
What's the point of all these protests to try and fight to bring down the Torys if you turn down a big opportunity to do just that by forcing them into calling a early GE. Why. I would assume that's exactly what you would want to do if you believed you would win.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #102 on: November 13, 2016, 06:07:05 pm »
Sorry, i'm confused now....Why the constant references to Democrats? The Internationalism is laudable, but the title of the thread references The Labour Party.

Can we not get our fucking "left" focused on the argument in the UK in hand, and then worry about the "left" in other countries?

Hardly a leftist view point that, very "I'm alright Jack" thinking. Looking internally, either first or only, will give you a narrow point of view.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #103 on: November 13, 2016, 06:21:03 pm »
Hardly a leftist view point that, very "I'm alright Jack" thinking. Looking internally, either first or only, will give you a narrow point of view.
its more a 'get your own house in order first' type of attitude, same thing the left in the states need to do instead of worry about trumps racist English mate stealing American jobs

What's the point of all these protests to try and fight to bring down the Torys if you turn down a big opportunity to do just that by forcing them into calling a early GE. Why. I would assume that's exactly what you would want to do if you believed you would win.
because that's what they do, not massively dissimilar to the trump/farages of the world who want to look all high and mighty and take the fight but don't want to actually do the hard bits when it's done, which is why Frottage's situation is perfect as he gets to open his gob and bitch and moan without having to do the dirty work, unlike trump who looks terrified at getting something he never really wanted

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #104 on: November 13, 2016, 06:33:47 pm »

because that's what they do, not massively dissimilar to the trump/farages of the world who want to look all high and mighty and take the fight but don't want to actually do the hard bits when it's done, which is why Frottage's situation is perfect as he gets to open his gob and bitch and moan without having to do the dirty work, unlike trump who looks terrified at getting something he never really wanted
I think theres is a big difference between Trump/Frottage + Labour right now and IMO this Article 50 issues highlights it. Trump/Frottage jumped at their opportunity to get the vote they needed to achieve their aims. Labour now has the opportunity to achieve their aim. get the Torys out and take power.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #105 on: November 13, 2016, 06:48:10 pm »
I think theres is a big difference between Trump/Frottage + Labour right now and IMO this Article 50 issues highlights it. Trump/Frottage jumped at their opportunity to get the vote they needed to achieve their aims. Labour now has the opportunity to achieve their aim. get the Torys out and take power.
frottage wasn't going to have to do anything hard if he won, trump didnt think he'd win at all, just run it close so he would in a way win.

Labour at the moment know that if there was an election they'd lose a huge number of seats to the Tories/lib dems/UKIP so them calling for an election is a bit turkeys voting for Christmas, as there is potential to get into power but it isn't now, the Tories have to fuck up the negotiations before labour can think of becoming a credible option

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #106 on: November 13, 2016, 06:52:52 pm »
Next election campaign sorted then..

Kick off against your own side.

Cuddly 'ole John McDonnell eh?

I have to say.  If Trump and Brexit have taught me one thing, it's that kicking off like this changes no ones minds whatsoever.

 McDonnell is now comfortably the single most violent, hateful and outright repulsive front bench politician of my lifetime. An evil little cretin of a man.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #107 on: November 13, 2016, 07:01:30 pm »
frottage wasn't going to have to do anything hard if he won, trump didnt think he'd win at all, just run it close so he would in a way win.

Labour at the moment know that if there was an election they'd lose a huge number of seats to the Tories/lib dems/UKIP so them calling for an election is a bit turkeys voting for Christmas, as there is potential to get into power but it isn't now, the Tories have to fuck up the negotiations before labour can think of becoming a credible option
Yes, I agree, it's Turkeys voting for xmas. that's the point I was making but this is the best opportunity to win a GE this leadrship will ever get. a  straight vote of Labour keeping us in the single market or the Torys hard Brexit. yet they still don't feel confident enough to grab the opportunity.
If they think voters will vote them in when Brexit goes wrong then they are mistaken, they voted with the Torys to take us out of the EU. both partys will take the blame.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 07:03:55 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Trada

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #108 on: November 13, 2016, 07:43:03 pm »
This is the kind of shit he has to put up and the kind of thing you expect from the scum.

Just reading the Mirror Site and they did an article about a story the S#n did.

Saying that Jeremy danced on the way to the Cenotaph.



But they had cropped out who he was walking with and took with him to the Cenotaph George Durack a 92 year old desert Rat.

Mr Durack, 92, said he had known Jeremy Corbyn for 30 years and had recommended the Labour Leader became MP for Islington North.

He said: “I’ve seen a bit of action and that annoys me when somebody tries to make fun of something like this, I take it very seriously I lost good friends and good colleagues in the war and like me Jeremy Corbyn takes it very seriously.

“From what I can make of it they have taken some photographs of him walking along and you can make what you like of that. It’s absolute nonsense.

“I was with him all the time and I never saw nothing like that at all.

“If they try to blacken his name at least do it legitimately don’t make farce of something like that. I think it’s pretty awful and they should give him a break.

“I think it’s about time some of these newspapers gave him a break, he doesn’t deserve it and he certainly doesn’t deserve it when we’re talking about Remembrance Sunday and it’s terribly unfair.

“I was with Jeremy when he lay the wreath and I was his companion at the Cenotaph so I know everything he’s done today because I was there.”

Mr Corbyn's team said the Labour leader had "gestured" towards the veteran while they carried on a conversation.

A spokesperson added: "The real disgrace is a photographer fabricating a story to sell his photos and airbrushing out George Durack on the one day set aside to remember the service and sacrifice of war veterans.

Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #109 on: November 13, 2016, 09:43:34 pm »
Dave - The press are always on the lookout for a good Labour Politician fuck up on Remembrance Sunday since Michael Foot's 'donkey jacket'. He knows the cameras will be on him all day, checking whether he sings the national anthem, has a little smile that can be passed off as a 'smirk'.

Why does he need to do anything other than walk there, lay a wreath and walk back?  The picture with the other person doesn't make it look any better.
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Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline zebenzui

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #110 on: November 13, 2016, 09:51:28 pm »
Dave - The press are always on the lookout for a good Labour Politician fuck up on Remembrance Sunday since Michael Foot's 'donkey jacket'. He knows the cameras will be on him all day, checking whether he sings the national anthem, has a little smile that can be passed off as a 'smirk'.

Why does he need to do anything other than walk there, lay a wreath and walk back?  The picture with the other person doesn't make it look any better.

Just be an automaton all day, walk with perfect precision, eyes front with a motionless face.

And get panned for blanking the veteran next to him, I guess.

Offline KiNki

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #111 on: November 13, 2016, 09:54:09 pm »
is there video footage?

corbyn might be doing a good old 'cmon you can do it' rather than "a dance"

or perhaps he's just ran to catch up to the old fella so he isn't walking alone. 

Offline Beard

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #112 on: November 13, 2016, 09:57:18 pm »
He was clearly doing a little dance to the the chant of "Maggie, Maggie, Maggie..."

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #113 on: November 13, 2016, 10:08:08 pm »
Next election campaign sorted then..

Kick off against your own side.

Cuddly 'ole John McDonnell eh?

I have to say.  If Trump and Brexit have taught me one thing, it's that kicking off like this changes no ones minds whatsoever.

Are you not putting a link to your source then ... ;) 

Offline SP

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #114 on: November 13, 2016, 10:16:43 pm »

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #115 on: November 13, 2016, 10:31:14 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESN1Ec52BwA
:)
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Offline Trada

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #116 on: November 14, 2016, 07:23:16 am »
Reading in the Huffington post that both the s#n and the Mail have both taken down the story from their websites now.

I know it caused an our cry on social media I wonder if they were worried about more sponsors jumping ship after start of the #StopFundingHate campaign.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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Offline Redman0151

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #117 on: November 14, 2016, 08:53:34 am »
It's utterly mental the faux outrage and outright lies posted about those photos. What's even more depressing is the people who should be on our side going along with it. George Durack, the veteran next to him, has called it "absolute nonsense"
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #118 on: November 14, 2016, 09:03:53 am »

Carolyn Leckie: Electability no longer requires holding the middle ground
November 14th, 2016 - 12:05 am Carolyn Leckie
 

DURING the recent Labour leadership contest, political journalists routinely contrasted what they called the “electable” and the “unelectable” wings of the party.

Right now, it’s hard to imagine any wing of the Labour Party winning a majority in the UK, or in Scotland, any time in the foreseeable future. But in the shifting sands of politics, the concept of electability is fast becoming redundant.

It was always a code word for moderation, for blandness, for playing it safe, for targeting the middle class and the more affluent working class, while ignoring the rest.

The received wisdom is that elections (and referenda?) can only be won on the centre ground. But, as the old Labour firebrand Nye Bevan once said, those who stand in the middle of the road tend to get knocked down. That’s what happened to the Hillary Clinton campaign in the USA. It’s what happened to the Remain campaign in the UK. It’s what happened to the Liberal Democrats and New Labour.

The politics of centrism – or the third way as it has become known in recent decades – has long underpinned the ideology of the US Democrats. It gradually took over the British Labour Party in the 1990s. Its essence was to fuse right-wing economic politics with left-wing social policy on issues like race and gender.

It is an idea whose time has passed. It thrived for a period of 15 years, from the first half of the 1990s to the second half of the 2000s. It blossomed under the economic conditions prevailing during these years. Uninterrupted growth encouraged the delusion that capitalism could deliver prosperity ad infinitum.

People believed, as they had done in the 1950s and 1960s, that next year would be better than this year, and their children’s lives would be better than their own. I thought the same for my own children.

It also thrived at a time when traditional industries were disappearing to the Far East, and trade unionism in the private sector was being all but destroyed. Individualism replaced community and collective action. Popular culture – from the X Factor to The Apprentice, from the National Lottery to the Kardashians – reinforced the dream that instant wealth was within reach of us all.

Jimmy Reid once said of the labour movement leadership that there were too many people at the top whose ambition was to liberate the working class, one by one, starting with themselves. That philosophy is now universal.

And it’s been embraced by much of the political left, which has all but abandoned any attempt to challenge the economic power structures in society.

I’m a feminist and have zero tolerance of racism. I despise Donald Trump and voted Remain. But I fear that the progressive left across much of Europe and the USA has become more and more detached from the broad mass of the working class. They may as well live on a different planet.

Take Saturday morning’s Guardian. Ingredients in its top recipes include black garlic, white miso and toasted caraway seeds – all unlikely to be found in your local freezer shop.

Its travel adverts include a £17,000 cruise from Sydney to London via the Philippines, the Maldives and the Suez Canal. Its fashion adverts include a £300 pair of shoes and an unremarkable red beanie hat for £80 – which is more than a week’s Job Seeker’s Allowance.

Much of the progressive left is seriously disconnected from the millions of people struggling to pay their bills and feed their children. It talks in a different language. Try out words like intersectionality, post-structuralism or hetero-normativity in a working-class pub in Dundee or Glasgow and just watch people’s eyes glaze over.

Some people might draw the conclusion that the left should respond to the Brexiteers and the Trumpeteers by toning down our opposition to racism, sexism and homophobia. No . Exactly the opposite – instead of narrowing and diluting our progressive politics we should be expanding and strengthening them.

Let’s start with class. It’s a word that mainstream politicians avoid at all costs and causes embarrassment if uttered in polite company.

At the heart of the third way politics pioneered by Bill Clinton and Tony Blair was the idea that we live in a classless society. “The class war is over,” said Tony Blair to rapturous applause at the 1999 Labour Party Conference.

Anyone who still believes that class no longer matters really needs to see I, Daniel Blake, the searingly brilliant indictment of poverty in the 21st century made by Ken Loach and Paul Laverty. For millions of people, this is real life.

WE NEED more than mournful laments about the existence of inequality to work out real solutions. You cannot seriously tackle poverty without also tackling wealth inequality. We are living in a time where We need to be clear what we stand for and whose side we are on.

All our mainstream parties suffer from an infatuation with big business. These are the wealth creators, say our star-struck politicians – a disrespectful insult to the millions who spend half their waking hours working to produce and distribute the goods and services that we all consume.

The third way has failed and paved the way for Brexit and Trump. Blair might have won three general elections and Clinton two, but that was back in what looks, with hindsight, like a golden era for capitalism. There is no centre ground now.

The SNP has managed to bring together an impressive coalition that spans the political spectrum. But tensions are inevitable. The Yes campaign was an example of a social movement that succeeded in inspiring people living in poverty to get out and vote. But we can’t just turn that on and off like a tap, while standing above the economic divisions in our society.

The left – and I include both the SNP and Labour in that camp – needs a strategy that fuses progressive social policies with a clear commitment to, in the words of an Old Labour manifesto, “bring about a fundamental shift in the balance of wealth and power to working people and their families”.

For those obsessed with electability cast your mind back five years and say hand on heart whether you imagined Donald Trump could be elected President of the USA; Britain would vote to leave the EU; a far left party like Syriza would take power in Greece; Jeremy Corbyn would be elected twice over as leader of the Labour Party; Marine le Pen would be tipped to win the French Presidency; Scotland would come within five percentage points of declaring independence; and the SNP would win 56 of Scotland’s 59 Westminster constituencies.

Then start to think differently.

http://www.thenational.scot/comment/carolyn-leckie-electability-no-longer-requires-holding-the-middle-ground.24705
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Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline SP

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #119 on: November 14, 2016, 02:21:57 pm »
The argument is making a fundamental error in assuming that electability is a function of the position on the political spectrum. It isn't. For sure, some policy positions carry an electoral cost that would make election unlikely. Unilateral nuclear disarmament is currently one of those. Electability is inextricably bound to competence. The less skilled a party is at selling a policy to the electorate at large, the safer its policy picks will have to be. To stand outside the centre ground you need to communicate to shift opinions to your side. The current Labour party closer to unelectable at the moment as there is precious little evidence of any coherent ability to use the media to shift opinions. All the parties efforts appear to be at members, will little penetration beyond.

Electability require competence exceeding the radicalism of the platform.