Author Topic: Liverpool's Midfield  (Read 1802442 times)

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16520 on: October 29, 2019, 11:44:35 pm »
Something interesting that our Pep was mentioning today, how the front 3 are defending 6 players at once with their movement,positioning and pressure.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16521 on: October 29, 2019, 11:48:02 pm »
We can have potential or actual shortcomings when certain combinations of players are on the pitch AND be a fantastic football team. The fact is, we are incredible and we have got very little wrong this season. However it is also a fact that teams have tried to nullify us (with success on occasion) by shutting down our fullbacks. When we have two players in midfield who are offering very little going forward that can be an issue. This is a perfect time to have the conversation too because we beat spurs. There's always a danger that talking about this post points dropped (utd for example), will sound like moaning. Which, given our brilliance, would be a poor look. But post a win, it's an enjoyable way of letting off steam to discuss this weakness. And it is a weakness, no matter what you say about this 'winning formula'. No one should want someone in their team giving it away as much as Henderson did on Sunday when they're offering no penetration alongside it. We potentially have the options available to us to be as solid defensively (which isn't actually that solid thus far this season), AND have more variety offensively. Why not talk about what that might look like.

We’ve conceded the least goals in the Premier League which I’d rate as defensively pretty solid and since Hendo moved to CM I’d venture we have the best record in world football considering the opposition we’ve played. And I would look at the whole body of work from Henderson rather than turnovers in one game.

I’m all for having options that create alternative avenue to attack from the options we have, I’m just not willing to concede that Fab/Gini/Hendo aren’t in our best 11 right now when everything is ticking. We’ve been outrageously successful with them in the team. There’s obviously going to be a transition at some point as Hendo/Gini get older. They might transition into Milner type roles but for the time being things are going very well.

To me the only change in midfield I think we should make is Lallana out for a young backup to Fabinho (Milner given another year). I don’t think we should be looking for no.10’s or any significant changes in midfield because IMO both starters and rotation options have been great.

The changes we need to make IMO are the rotation/successors to Firmino/Salah/Mane. These guys are 27/28 so if we could get a 22-23 y.o to rotate behind them for a couple of years and eventually be successors that’d be great.
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Offline Knight

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16522 on: October 30, 2019, 07:56:07 am »
I agree about 10s, we already have our 10 on the pitch. On Henderson, I don't want to turn this into a bash Henderson thread, or for me to be a bash Henderson poster, but the statistics could be laid one on another to show his poor start to the season. Turnovers in one game was just one example. Of course he also scored and offers loads of intangibles that won't show up on any stats page.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16523 on: November 10, 2019, 06:35:20 pm »
Think that selection in midfield today was the final straw for Klopp.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16524 on: November 10, 2019, 06:36:41 pm »
Think that selection in midfield today was the final straw for Klopp.

It’ll be utter insanity if those three ever start a game together again
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16525 on: November 10, 2019, 06:38:51 pm »
Think that selection in midfield today was the final straw for Klopp.

Can't believe Henderson still gets into the team.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16526 on: November 10, 2019, 06:42:14 pm »
It’ll be utter insanity if those three ever start a game together again

There's no doubt that's our go-to midfield at Anfield because our home record is so good. Wijnaldum has that performance in his locker and Fabinho is immense.

I'd say the only issue is when it doesn't work (usually away home where Gini let's be honest can be very ineffective) or we start to flag we need to be quicker to change it and we have the options on the bench to do that.

What we did well in the week was rotate the team midweek so the midfield came into the game today refreshed. That's the key. You can't flog the same three every game but in terms of our main midfield our home record speaks for itself.
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Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16527 on: November 10, 2019, 06:47:10 pm »
Gini was fucking brilliant today.  Man of the match for me. 

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16528 on: November 10, 2019, 06:57:02 pm »
How good were Fabinho, Gini and Hendo today. After Hendo was taken off, we lost control of the game. It shows why these three are the preferred midfielders and I'd have them all in the big games where it's open and chaotic. We can afford to rest them in the games against bus parkers and lower sides, but in these big games, they're so crucial in choking the opposition with their press and then keep ticking the ball in simple ways.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16529 on: November 10, 2019, 07:55:10 pm »
Think that selection in midfield today was the final straw for Klopp.
How many final straws has he got?

Don’t understand how he gets away with continuing to pick these 3, some correlation with results perhaps? Complete mystery
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Offline Fromola

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16530 on: November 10, 2019, 08:47:09 pm »
How good were Fabinho, Gini and Hendo today. After Hendo was taken off, we lost control of the game. It shows why these three are the preferred midfielders and I'd have them all in the big games where it's open and chaotic. We can afford to rest them in the games against bus parkers and lower sides, but in these big games, they're so crucial in choking the opposition with their press and then keep ticking the ball in simple ways.

We need the three of them in tough, open games, at least until Keita is fully up to speed. Just wish Gini could play like that away from home.

Fabinho indespensible now.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16531 on: November 10, 2019, 08:55:29 pm »
We need the three of them in tough, open games, at least until Keita is fully up to speed. Just wish Gini could play like that away from home.

Fabinho indespensible now.

Yep, he's fucking shite.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16532 on: November 10, 2019, 09:02:00 pm »
We need the three of them in tough, open games, at least until Keita is fully up to speed. Just wish Gini could play like that away from home.

Fabinho indespensible now.

Does it not get tiresome constantly, like literally every time, having to insert a negative into everything you post? Top of the league by 8 points, big win against Man City where our midfield pretty much destroyed theirs and again you just can’t help yourself :D
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16533 on: November 10, 2019, 09:15:07 pm »
Does it not get tiresome constantly, like literally every time, having to insert a negative into everything you post? Top of the league by 8 points, big win against Man City where our midfield pretty much destroyed theirs and again you just can’t help yourself :D

We can get carried away if we win the league. Need to stay grounded.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline sinnermichael

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16534 on: November 10, 2019, 09:17:14 pm »
How many final straws has he got?

Don’t understand how he gets away with continuing to pick these 3, some correlation with results perhaps? Complete mystery

He only picks them to piss off idiots on Twitter who clearly know better than him.

Offline Legoland

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16535 on: November 10, 2019, 09:26:28 pm »
Shouldn't have taken Hendo off for Milly. But what a game those 3 had in the middle of the park today! World class.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16536 on: November 10, 2019, 09:28:29 pm »
Shouldn't have taken Hendo off for Milly. But what a game those 3 had in the middle of the park today! World class.

Why? Sensible thing to do.

Milly did well as always plus remember Hendo has been ill.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16537 on: November 10, 2019, 10:18:09 pm »
We can get carried away if we win the league. Need to stay grounded.
No we dont because we arent on the pitch performing. The players are grounded and its one of the reasons they have been  successful.

You would think that a manager would see that Wijnaldum doesnt play well away from Anfield in the 4 seaons hes been here. Oh wait....

Offline Knight

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16538 on: November 10, 2019, 10:26:19 pm »
What a ball from Henderson for the third.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16539 on: November 10, 2019, 10:39:17 pm »
What a ball from Henderson for the third.

He contributes nothing to the attack nor in possession. All he does is pass backwards and run hard at the opposition.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16540 on: November 10, 2019, 11:04:49 pm »
Its got a fine purr at the moment.

Offline sinnermichael

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16541 on: November 10, 2019, 11:05:13 pm »
Good to see them getting some praise on MOTD2.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16542 on: November 10, 2019, 11:34:27 pm »
We lost control as soon as Hendo left the field. He was everywhere today. The reality is Klopp would quickly sell any player he didn't think was essential to this team dynamic which has won us the CL, the third highest points total in history and equaled the best ever start in the league.  We can bullshit all we want about how much better this team would be with sexy attacking mids but thats just ignoring the real dynamic of this team.

We do what we do better than anyone else in the world right now, and we do it without a james maddison / riquelme / ozil type.  I'd even go as far as to say that the midfields due dilligence is carrying the attack at the moment (mané excluded)

Offline suede lady

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16543 on: November 12, 2019, 10:00:02 pm »
Our midfield between them have contributed to five goals (Gini, Hendo, Milner, Lallana and Fabinho)and four assists (Hendo, Fabinho, Milner x 2) in the PL. So they were involved in nine goals which is roughly one third of our scored goals in the PL. is that truly so little?

And as pointed out before, our midfield allows the fullback to push forward. Robbo and Trent have scored two and assisted seven, another nine goals.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16544 on: November 12, 2019, 10:05:38 pm »
Our midfield between them have contributed to five goals (Gini, Hendo, Milner, Lallana and Fabinho)and four assists (Hendo, Fabinho, Milner x 2) in the PL. So they were involved in nine goals which is roughly one third of our scored goals in the PL. is that truly so little?

And as pointed out before, our midfield allows the fullback to push forward. Robbo and Trent have scored two and assisted seven, another nine goals.

It’s fine anyway, but at this point I’d have thought we’d all clocked on that it’s not particularly their job to be scoring and assisting frequently.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline sinnermichael

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16545 on: November 17, 2019, 05:44:46 pm »
Ox playing with great confidence again. Reckon he starts against Palace with Keita starting against Brighton the following weekend. I expect the usual go to midfield three against Napoli and Everton.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16546 on: November 17, 2019, 05:47:50 pm »
England's best player by a mile. Great passing, pressing some good movement and speed. But best of all, he has stood up to a couple of hard tackles as well. Very encouraging.
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Offline Redcap

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16547 on: November 19, 2019, 12:00:57 am »
It’s fine anyway, but at this point I’d have thought we’d all clocked on that it’s not particularly their job to be scoring and assisting frequently.

Yes and no.

I know our Plan A is notionally for the midfield to stodge up the centre to allow our wingbacks to supply the front three.

But clearly that's not where it ends, because our midfield has contributed goals, particularly in recent weeks. Moreover, I don't see Ox ever becoming a player that only contributes to the defensive/ball progression side of the game, and I don't really see Keita as that either.

I think the way we've played has partly been because we have world class forwards and wingbacks, and partly because we haven't had our more attacking midfielders available as often as we've had the usual three. With Ox and Keita hopefully getting more and more minutes, I think we'll mix up our style a bit more so that we offer threat from the wings and through the middle. Particularly if we are without any of the front 3 for an extended period, or without either Robbo or Trent, I think we'd need to play Ox or Keita (or Hendo/Gini in a more attacking role) more often.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16548 on: November 19, 2019, 12:41:58 am »
Yes and no.

I know our Plan A is notionally for the midfield to stodge up the centre to allow our wingbacks to supply the front three.

But clearly that's not where it ends, because our midfield has contributed goals, particularly in recent weeks. Moreover, I don't see Ox ever becoming a player that only contributes to the defensive/ball progression side of the game, and I don't really see Keita as that either.

I think the way we've played has partly been because we have world class forwards and wingbacks, and partly because we haven't had our more attacking midfielders available as often as we've had the usual three. With Ox and Keita hopefully getting more and more minutes, I think we'll mix up our style a bit more so that we offer threat from the wings and through the middle. Particularly if we are without any of the front 3 for an extended period, or without either Robbo or Trent, I think we'd need to play Ox or Keita (or Hendo/Gini in a more attacking role) more often.

Our problem is our two number 8s have had injury issues, and have not been consistently fit, so we've had to make do with our reliably fit number 6s. Which also works thanks to our exceptional FBs. We will probably try to get our number 8s back to a reasonable level of match fitness, then we'll start switching style with the three 6s as a working back up plan.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16549 on: November 19, 2019, 08:10:35 am »
Our midfield between them have contributed to five goals (Gini, Hendo, Milner, Lallana and Fabinho)and four assists (Hendo, Fabinho, Milner x 2) in the PL. So they were involved in nine goals which is roughly one third of our scored goals in the PL. is that truly so little?

And as pointed out before, our midfield allows the fullback to push forward. Robbo and Trent have scored two and assisted seven, another nine goals.
The numbers aren't that impressive if you look at Henderson and Gini though, our starting 8s, who have 1+1 and 1+0 goals+assist so far. Gini and Henderson are on total 1 assist when they can pass some of the best attackers in the world. Defensive responsibilities matter, but still.

But hey, we're winning games and that's what it's all about.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16550 on: November 19, 2019, 12:18:33 pm »
Our problem is our two number 8s have had injury issues, and have not been consistently fit, so we've had to make do with our reliably fit number 6s. Which also works thanks to our exceptional FBs. We will probably try to get our number 8s back to a reasonable level of match fitness, then we'll start switching style with the three 6s as a working back up plan.

I mean....it might happen? But there, once again, really doesn’t seem to be any evidence that the aim is to eventually drop Henderson and Gini (who I assume you’re referring to as two of the three ‘sixes’?) from the first choice midfield.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16551 on: November 19, 2019, 04:07:47 pm »
I mean....it might happen? But there, once again, really doesn’t seem to be any evidence that the aim is to eventually drop Henderson and Gini (who I assume you’re referring to as two of the three ‘sixes’?) from the first choice midfield.

Hard to predict what happens if both Keita and Ox are able to perform to the level expected on a consistent basis. Do we just rotate the midfield? Or does someone give way? All of our options in midfield bring a slightly different set of skills to the table. Overall, Klopp seems to prefer the balance of responsibilities over playing any given individual. So if you put in Oxlade Chamberlain, you gain in attack, but lost a little defensively. That's fine if the other two in the midfield are able to compensate.

I think there are still people who expect Keita to be an all-out attacking midfielder, but that was never likely in this side. Of the other players in our midfield, I think he's closest to Wijnaldum, a player with the ability to cover defensive and attacking aspects of the game.

I rate Henderson, but there are things he does not do particularly well in this team. It's less of an issue when Fabinho is in behind, but ultimately, I could see Fab, Nab and Gini as the most Klopp-inspired midfield combination.

Then we just need to see if we can fit Grujic in as well...
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16552 on: November 19, 2019, 07:31:51 pm »
I mean....it might happen? But there, once again, really doesn’t seem to be any evidence that the aim is to eventually drop Henderson and Gini (who I assume you’re referring to as two of the three ‘sixes’?) from the first choice midfield.

There may come a time when we won't be dropping our number 6s, but will have to rotate with the number 8s just to keep the former fresh. We've been lucky that our number 6s have been ever-available during the time when our number 8s have been injury-prone.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16553 on: November 19, 2019, 08:09:53 pm »
Gini is not a nummer 6. He plays as one because that are the instructions from Klopp. He plays for NL at the moment and has 1 goal and 3 shots already. In total he has 15 goals in 60 games for Oranje and 11 in 48 for Newcastle.

Since he clearly has goals to his game - if asked to play further up - I’d say he is being asked to curtail his attacking instincts. So it is just as likely that if Liverpool continue with the same setup whoever plays in midfield will play in the same manner.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16554 on: November 19, 2019, 09:38:27 pm »
Gini is not a nummer 6. He plays as one because that are the instructions from Klopp. He plays for NL at the moment and has 1 goal and 3 shots already. In total he has 15 goals in 60 games for Oranje and 11 in 48 for Newcastle.

Since he clearly has goals to his game - if asked to play further up - I’d say he is being asked to curtail his attacking instincts. So it is just as likely that if Liverpool continue with the same setup whoever plays in midfield will play in the same manner.

Wijnaldum hasn't played as a 6 in many a moons here.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16555 on: November 19, 2019, 09:42:09 pm »
Wijnaldum hasn't played as a 6 in many a moons here.

No, but he and Hendo are tasked with playing a relatively less attacking role in the team. I think that's what people mean - clearly only Fab is playing as a 6.

Meanwhile, he's just scored a hat-trick. So clearly the goals are there if we ask it of him. He's a goal machine for the national team.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16556 on: November 19, 2019, 10:21:41 pm »
No, but he and Hendo are tasked with playing a relatively less attacking role in the team. I think that's what people mean - clearly only Fab is playing as a 6.

Meanwhile, he's just scored a hat-trick. So clearly the goals are there if we ask it of him. He's a goal machine for the national team.

Oh I agree, it's clear his duties are different here, not disputing that. But he isn't playing as a 6.

Offline suede lady

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16557 on: November 20, 2019, 08:05:42 am »
I was replaying to a poster further up who referred to Gini and Henderson as “our nr 6’s”

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16558 on: November 20, 2019, 08:53:50 am »
Oh I agree, it's clear his duties are different here, not disputing that. But he isn't playing as a 6.

He’s a false 6. A hipster 6.5.

Offline scutty

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16559 on: November 20, 2019, 09:54:33 am »
Midfield has been doing great things has it is.
 
The closest thing our midfield has had to a problem is that
Two of them have been out for some time.

Our midfield can only get better with Chamberlain and Keita to choose from. Klopp has a plan for them and I doubt it's to warm the bench.
Why was my post deleted?