Author Topic: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.  (Read 49910 times)

Offline Believe

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2013, 09:28:49 pm »
I'm very curious as to to what BR was looking to achieve with the 4 CB's. I said pre game that I'd like to see Toure RB as Southampton like a long ball, so does anyone think that could have been on his mind? It's totally out of character - I'd love to know what the real reason was as (similar to PoP) I think that we had players capable os playing in either full back position against a hard working but not amazing Southampton side. I'm pretty sure it was around this weekend of the season last year that he sent on Suso for his league debut when we were 10 men vs. Man. Utd. - so I find it odd that we didn't try something/someone adventurous.

The overriding thoughts I have now I've calmed down a bit are as follows:

 - Sakho and Toure should start against Utd, at CB!! Sakho was imperious when he switched there in the second half. Toure has to play every game for me, he just has that attitude and leadership.

- Hurry back Johnson & Cissokho. We look threadbare at full back - possibly call up McLaughlin or use Ilori there?

- Welcome back Luis Suarez, ideal timing as we need a lift after this.

- With respect, I think a January move to Italian football for Skrtel would suit everyone involved.

- BR needs to change our midfield and sharpish. He has an opportunity to be decisive and lay the law down. I hope he takes it.

- We're not the first side to lose at home and put in a shit display. Didn't it take us 10 games to get 10 points last season? We have still started well points wise regardless of what's happened this week.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 09:32:25 pm by Believe »

Offline locultom

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2013, 09:36:31 pm »
Well, a number of things were glaringly wrong in this game. All of which ask questions of the manager and the general analysis; can anyone help me with some answers?:

- Why do we never have anyone in the centre circle whether during slow build or quick transition?
- Why did we play a shape with 4 centre halves in light of the fact we rely on full back width?
- Why do so many point to Skrtel when Agger continually demonstrates poor defending in the box?
- Did we miss the floaty-spiky running lines of Aspas when he was withdrawn?
- Why are Gerrard and Lucas so leggy in the last 30 of games?
- Knowing they are leggy in the last 30 why do we play with a 10 so far away from them?
- Is Mignolet's distribution hurting us and would being 15 yards higher up the pitch be an easy fix?
- What happened to resting on the ball?
- Do you think we could use one of our new defensive signings in midfield to provide some athleticism?


 

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Offline SolidFoundations

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2013, 09:41:15 pm »
Was it Skrtel who gifted them the goal? Yes he was at fault for conceding the corner, but Agger did a poor job at marking the goal scorer. Not the first time he's been exposed at set pieces.

Offline gorwar61

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2013, 09:42:54 pm »
I think Brendan has got a case of Defend what we have,   We have done well the last 20 games, lets get back to pressing high up the field and no nonsense defending.

We surely can't be relying on Courtino to be splitting defences and creating are only positives moves, Suarez will be eager to impress us or Real Madrid  so hopefully we can deliver a telling pass to him.  I think we would be better suited playing Kolo next to Lucas and letting Gerrard further up field.

Offline walshys_mullet

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2013, 09:46:40 pm »
I posted earlier in the BR thread, and im going to do the same in here.

This result seriously fucked me off, more so than any other in a long time. And maybe because i'd just started to think that we may have turned a corner, even though we've not been at our best.

First of all what can you say about the lineup. Took me completely by surprise just how poor a setup it was, it just wasnt going to work. And what made it worse is that Sakho was the guy pushed to left back when Agger is quite capable.

Its like Brendan believed his own hype yesterday, well it came back to bite you on the arse fella and you need to go back to basics.

The game itself was pretty ordinary. Soton were discicplined but not much else. They only created the odd chance in the second half due to our mistakes and constant sloppiness. The passing at the back is getting tedious. You cant always play it around the back, sometimes it needs to be knocked down field or kicked from the keepers hands, it was never a problem years ago so why should it be now? its no good citing that its easy to lose the ball when we lose the ball at the back anyway, id rather we lost it 70 yards up the field than 20 yards.

And then theres the little matter of squad depth which has come home to roost in the last few games. A bench of Kelly, Ibe, Sterling, Alberto and Enrique is not going to frighten anyone, but with so many injuries what else can we do?

We still didnt do enough in the transfer window and it shows, we lack depth and the power to change things around when we need to. When Plan A stutters we have no plan B or C. SOton were plain ordinary yesterday but made us look like a bunch of kids.

Hopefully we will bounce back and Suarez will give us a boost, but Lucas, Gerrard, Agger, Skrtel all need a fucking rocket up their backsides as well as Brendan. Next few games are easily winnable, i expect 6 points.
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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2013, 09:49:56 pm »
Oh also id say with the players we have at our disposal, a 3-5-2 would work better than any other formation we currently employ. If you are gonna have three in the middle, it cant be Gerarrd and Lucas and Henderson, theres no control there.
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Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2013, 10:49:13 pm »
Positives

Sakho looks like he could be what we have been missing. He's fast, strong, great in the tackle, looks okay in the air too. I don't think he was that bad at left-back really. A lot of times he got the ball looked up and there was just no movement in front of him. No wonder he dawdled in possession. Would we prefer he just twat it up the pitch?

Toure just a legend. He has a great attitude. The same cannot be said for some of our stalwarts.

Moses a bit selfish at times, but again there was so little movement I can not really blame him for forcing the issue.

Raheem that first touch was appalling when he could have been away and he should motor for the line rather than try and hold it up all the time. At least his movement is good and he will improve with more game time.

Mignolet excellent shot-stopper. He must give his CBs confidence. He is not great with his feet, but the rest of the team really dropped him in it with poor movement and a total failure to compete for the 2nd ball. Bad movement rather than poor distribution is the problem here.

Negatives

Gerrard and Lucas just does not work as a partnership. Some think Gerrard can still be an important part of the first XI, but not me. it is time to start phasing him out. He should be a squad player from now on.

Agger dear oh dear! His marking at set-pieces is becoming an absolute liability.

Skrtel a great defender if you want to defend your 18 yard box. In the system we apparently want to play he just doesn't fit. His wages are probably too big for him to sit on the bench so I hope he is sold.

Movement show for the bloody ball! If we have ambitions to play passing football we need to provide options for the ball carrier. We need to learn to pass through the press or we may as well get the Owl back.

Pressing
Can we at least try to do this please?
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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2013, 12:32:11 am »
What was Rodgers thinking ? 4 centre backs, with Sakho looking very uncomfortable, Enrique should have started.
Toure did a reasonable job at right back and got forward well when he could.
It really showed with how much we phaffed about with the ball and the back, and Mignolet was lucky not to get punished.

Sturridge has been saying that he is not fit and it showed in this and the Swansea game (apart from a gift from Shelvey)

Our two best chances were Gerrard's free kicks, next closest was probably Henderson, and a grass cutter from Lucas,
that is not nearly good enough at home.

We really missed the creative spark from Coutinho, Aspas looks a bit like Borini trying too hard and nothing really coming off, and Sterling is looking a bit light weight.

Gerrard was very un Gerrard giving the ball away cheaply, but I thought Lucas grafted away.

Moses had a good game, and we really need Suarez back out there we are getting devoid of ideas.
Henderson put in a good shift.

Still early days but Rodgers needs to take a long hard look at himself and not just to admire his new choppers!!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 12:34:26 am by KopThat »

Offline jckliew

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2013, 12:41:52 am »
The first 3 results appeared to have papered over some cracks with the fortuitous results.
The good ending of last season helped to reinforce the papering.

While we won the first 3, the performances on the field have not been convincing, in that we could maintain such results.

More evidence of that in the Swansea game and

The Soton game cleared that up.

From the first 4 games, it was pretty obvious that we could not maintain high level play for 90 mins.
More so, we could only do it for 20 to 45mins.

Cracks

a) One goal getter
b) Midfield felt incognitive and fractured
c) Half game team
d) Cout was being sussed out
e) Probably the more serious one is that we have a rather poor quality backup squad. The number of injuries showed that
for certain positions, we have no quality in reserve.

Backs- someone posted whether it be a myth. Seems not. We have no real backup/competition for Johnson and Enrique.

DM- No one has been sourced for Lucas since he was seriously injured 18? ago.

AM- Now that Cout is out, who is gonna play the role?

We have been buying in real essence, 'potentials'. While we have buying that, we seemed to have plenty of that in stock, eg
Sterling, Ibe, Kelly, Wisdom,Suso.

Have we bought in quality in the summer?
Aspas, Alberto, Moses, Sakho, Cissohko

The crescendo of our woes culminated in Rodgers playing FOUR CBs in defence?
Has he NO confidence in our potential backs?

Bringing in Aspas and shipping out Borini?  Cant figure that one out. What was Rodgers thinking about?

All in all, after 5 games, plenty of puzzling questions for Rodgers. 
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Offline Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2013, 12:46:56 am »
Rodgers was stuck between a rock and a hard place with the starting line up, no manager would want to play four centre backs but with Wisdom playing poorly against Swansea, Enrique picking up a knee injury and Kelly still working his way back to fitness, the back four we played was the best we could muster out of a poor situation.

Toure was a decent make shift right back, he showed how simply getting forward and making runs past the wide man is so effective, as it creates time and helps to get the ball out of defense. Sakho was solid but he's not a left back, great shame that Cissokho and Enrique are both injured at the same time.

I wouldn't blame Rodgers for that starting back-four but I would blame him for neglecting to get proper back up for Johnson, who's prone to pick up an injury or two through out the course of a season. We have cover for Johnson and we don't need to completely disrupt the defence because of one injury.

As for the midfield, I don't know if it's personnel or the system, only time will tell. With Lucas and Gerrard, we looked completely devoid of energy. Early into the first half, we noticeably switched to 4-3-3 with Henderson coming into the midfield. That saw us going into the second half as the better team, we were coping with Southampton but not quite having the attacking edge.

Half-time saw Aspas subbed and I was really surprised, I thought he'd had a good first half, he created chances and worked hard for the team. Generally I'm not a massive fan of starting players and then subbing them at half time, you've got to show faith and back your starting line up.

Thought the game was crying out for Alberto. What I don't understand is the faith that Rodgers put in Shelvey has not been extended to Alberto, even though he signed Alberto and the young Spaniard looks to be very much a Rodgers type of player.

With risk of straying into hindsight-armchair-manager-territory, we should've started Alberto. If losing key players disrupts the team then changing the system disrupts the team even further. Play exactly as we would with Coutinho but giving Alberto the chance in his position, means we don't have to put round pegs in square holes.

Talking more generally about the match. Southampton were good and did well to frustrate us, but all their chances came from us failing to play the ball out from the back properly and being dispossessed in the process. Highlighting once again why Johnson is so important, he's the only full back we have who can comfortably bring the ball out of defence, with a drop of the shoulder or intelligent passing.

If this game taught us anything, it was that after a very good start to the season, we've been coldly reminded following a draw and a loss, that our lack of squad depth and lack of tactical pragmatism will cost us this season.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2013, 01:02:50 am »
If the elephant in the room is SG & Lucas and the knight in shining armour to fix that is Allen then we are in trouble. Allen might do the biz if we are gunning along at 110% but we are struggling right now and the last time we saw Allen he looked hopeless low in confidence. Bring him in now for SG and you might as well feed him to the lions I think.

A few tweaks are required........

Bring Suarez back is a huge one. That lad must be chomping at the bit and a wee toe up the ass to remind him who pays his wages will surely get the ball rolling

Hope the god Kelly & Enrique are fit to start as we need full backs asap. Kelly is a fine player future Liverpool captain I think and even with all the nay sayers cringing at Enrique he still is our best left back by a distant mile compared to a central defender out there.

Don't drop SG or Lucas but ask Allen or Henderson to step up and give those lads a wake up call with 100% effort as we go with a 3 man CM for now.


Can we sort out our fitness asap as surely 90 minutes once a week is not beyond us.
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Offline DanA

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2013, 01:07:39 am »
The frustrating thing for me was I felt that game was there for the taking. We've played all-right and even in the game against Southampton we had our moments (the penalty, Gerrard's free kick, Sterling through on goal etc). But we didn't put out a line up that told me we were desperate to win. It was defensive, unbalanced and for want of a better word small time. Quite frankly it had me raging and not least because since January Rodgers has been nothing but positive. Why the change, what's happened the last couple of weeks to bring this about?

For me the result on Wednesday is less important that the intent. We need to put out a positive line up and go there looking to stamp authority on the game. Failure I can handle but at a bare minimum I want Rodgers to show belief in his players and pick a side looking to go out and win. 


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Offline DanA

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #52 on: September 23, 2013, 01:17:01 am »
I don't believe Gerrard and Lucas are the problem. I think fullbacks and Aspas were the problem. Aspas plays like a striker but we're struggling in attacking build up. We need someone to present in front of Gerrard and Lucas and Aspas just isn't doing that. This has only been compounded with the loss of Coutinho.

With how Gerrard and Lucas play we need attacking wing backs that get forward. That means Kelly, Wisdom, Toure, Sakho and Flanagan are ill suited. It's harsh but I think we ship out Skrtel, Wisdom, Kelly and Flanagan. Then lack of mobility in midfield I don't think would be an issue if we had the right fullbacks and another alternative DM instead of those players. Love Kelly and Wisdom, put clauses in so we can get them back but right now they don't have a spot and we're doing no favours leaving them on the bench or playing them in systems/positions they're not suited.
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Offline ser_renely

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2013, 01:20:26 am »
Bit harsh on Gerrard.

Good one.  Gerrard imo can't play a full game against quick, skilled pressing teams ...I think Southampton can be classified as that.  Other than Henderson I don't see anyone in our midfield that do well against that...and I don't think Henderson is that good when you take away his athletic attributes.  Lucas can pass fine, but he just has 0 pace.  Allen is ok, but is so small and lightweight.  I think this is why we see these players do so well in some games and horrid in others. 

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #54 on: September 23, 2013, 01:21:16 am »
What this game did was lift up some of the paper covering the cracks. The first three wins were lucky, but as they say "you better be lucky than good". And if the ref had given the penalty, we could have had an entirely different game, which we might have even won. So thin was the margin between winning and losing. even when playing poorly.

Time to shake off whatever possessed the team on Saturday and show up for the next game with a fighting spirit.
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Offline jckliew

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #55 on: September 23, 2013, 01:24:26 am »
Good one.  Gerrard imo can't play a full game against quick, skilled pressing teams ...I think Southampton can be classified as that.  Other than Henderson I don't see anyone in our midfield that do well against that...and I don't think Henderson is that good when you take away his athletic attributes.  Lucas can pass fine, but he just has 0 pace.  Allen is ok, but is so small and lightweight.  I think this is why we see these players do so well in some games and horrid in others. 

Think the word is 'quality'.

That probably differentiates our squad from that of the top four
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Offline koolkamal

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #56 on: September 23, 2013, 01:37:52 am »
I see people talking about Gerrard and Lucas seemingly tired long before the game ends. Could it be because they're overworked? Just something I noticed that our attacking players seem almost unable to keep hold of the ball for too long. No link up play, can't string passes together, giving the ball away too quickly, and hardly ever pressing.

I noticed Lucas and Gerrard at times too pressing higher up the pitch than any of the attackers and then having to run back in to position. Effectively they seem to be doing more work than they did before. I see Lucas doing it often, gets up in to opposition half, forcing their play back or sideways then having to run back to get in to position. None of the attackers seem to do too much pressing either.

Not sure if others see it too but maybe that's a cause of Gerrard and Lucas being overly tired by the second half.
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #57 on: September 23, 2013, 02:45:18 am »
I see people talking about Gerrard and Lucas seemingly tired long before the game ends. Could it be because they're overworked? Just something I noticed that our attacking players seem almost unable to keep hold of the ball for too long. No link up play, can't string passes together, giving the ball away too quickly, and hardly ever pressing.

I noticed Lucas and Gerrard at times too pressing higher up the pitch than any of the attackers and then having to run back in to position. Effectively they seem to be doing more work than they did before. I see Lucas doing it often, gets up in to opposition half, forcing their play back or sideways then having to run back to get in to position. None of the attackers seem to do too much pressing either.

Not sure if others see it too but maybe that's a cause of Gerrard and Lucas being overly tired by the second half.

You're not alone in noticing it, mate.

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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2013, 02:51:21 am »
Good one.  Gerrard imo can't play a full game against quick, skilled pressing teams ...I think Southampton can be classified as that.  Other than Henderson I don't see anyone in our midfield that do well against that...and I don't think Henderson is that good when you take away his athletic attributes.  Lucas can pass fine, but he just has 0 pace.  Allen is ok, but is so small and lightweight.  I think this is why we see these players do so well in some games and horrid in others.

It's not true that Lucas has 0 pace. He's not a speed merchant, true. He doesn't have the consistent recovery speed of Mascherano, for example. But to say he's got 0 pace is, as you all say, bollocks.

Furthermore, this nonsense about Allen's small stature and light weight being, somehow, a hindrance to him being effective in CM has got to stop.

Against quick, skilled pressing teams, a possession and passing based control the game club responds by accurate short-distance passing and clever collective movement. For THAT, you can have no better players, given our finances, than Lucas and Allen.

The more we build our forward play through the center, or at least do not pick a flank and stay THERE only, the better. At no point when we've been at our best this season have we concentrated on building exclusively down the flanks.

Vs Southampton and at 0-1 down, we were over-eager and ridiculously ineffective in getting quick counter-attacks going. Time after time, appropriate pressure was put on Gerrard, especially, and the moves died down. A few years ago, the force of nature that was Gerrard on the counter, would have eaten them alive. Not so any longer.
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Offline MobileBayRed

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2013, 03:12:52 am »
As always, some really fantastic stuff in here. I wish I could put my thoughts down as gracefully as others, but I'm not that good. Here are some thoughts from an obviously disappointing match:

1.  Mignolet's passing is really bad. His shot stopping is world class, but every pass back to him is equivalent to a lost possession. He, Skrtel, and Agger kill any chance of being able to play out of the back.

2. Because of Mignolet's lack of skill on the ball I think it is very clear that Toure and Sakho will be our first choice CB pairing.

3. Rodgers hinted at it in his presser, but I think we will see 3 at the back at least until Johnson is healthy. Not sure who gets the third spot, assume it will be Agger but Wisdom or Ilori could get some looks.

4. Gerrard needs a rest.  I will be stunned if he features mid-week.

5. Aspas doesn't really have a position in this team right now. He looked dangerous in pre-season but that was without Sturridge in the side. His quick passing is something but he isn't on the same page with Sturride yet.

6. Sturridge is clearly not close to healthy. His explosion is gone. He was routinely beaten to 50/50 balls all day against Southampton. Maybe we will see a Moses , Aspas, Suarez front next week to give Sturridge some time to get healthy.

Said it in the post match thread but kudos to Southampton. I thought they were fantastic. They won all the critical 1v1 duels and were quicker to every ball. Their pressing from the front was excellent. They played with heart and passion and were better than us. Not sure where our competitive fire was.
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Offline Kersy Aus

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2013, 05:53:04 am »
The positives first: 2.3 points per game since the Suarez ban, which is great. Sakho looked much better this week and I believe we have the old Lucas back. Mignolet is an awesome hot stopper

The negatives: confidence is shattered after a good start. Without coutinho do we have anyone else who can play as a creative mid? I know Erikson has his flaws but we could have used someone like him today. Or at least Suso.
Gerrard didn't look on his game at all.
BR, who I normally defend, made an awful mistake starting with 4 CBs, and the sterling sub didn't affect the game much at all. The other subs werent great either, we really seem to lack for depth at the moment.

The biggest negative of all however is this. When Mignolet saved the penalty against Stoke I wasn't alone in thinking that we had turned a corner and could leave our frailties behind. This game brought them all back.

The team we thought we had become after Stoke would not have looked so frail as the team that lost 0-1 to Southhampton

Offline fowler9_god

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #61 on: September 23, 2013, 07:38:27 am »
The elephant in the room that is Lucas and Gerrard, I see a squad that has everything Rodgers talked about when he first came here - why hasn't he got the confidence to drop players who aren't performing and sticking out like sore-thumbs in what should be a high tempo, high pressing, possession based team?

We were top of the league playing at home yet we set up to nick a draw - Rodgers lost this game before it even started with negative tactics and his player selection. I watched City v's Utd and even though Utd were 4-0 down and City had taken their foot off the gas somewhat Utd still went for them to try and get something from the game.. The last 20mins v's Southampton only Toure was pushing forward, everyone else was more scared of taking a risk they just retreated into their shells and we'd pass it around and then punt it long. We didn't look like a team who was top, we looked like a team lacking belief that we are actually good enough.

This is where Rodgers will sink or swim, he has to make the tough calls (If Rafa was back manager you know the team would be built around the right players, not the historical ones.) Is this Rodgers showing he hasn't got the big enough mentality for a club like ours? This is no dig, I believe in Rodgers and really do think he is the right man for the job but he still hasn't made unpopular choices yet, he plays it safe a lot. I feel if he actually did what he really thinks (but is scared to make the plunge) we'd become a monster of a team. You can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs, get into the kitchen Rodgers and break those eggs so we can all sample your lovely tata's!

High pressing? I am sorry but I have seen no evidence of Rodgers trying to play a high pressing system. Whenever we press, we press in 1. With the man closest to the ball pressing the opposition player and its very depressing that we have never developed pressing in 2s and 3s.

Rodgers for me doesn't believe in his system as much as he think he does. We started off initially in a gung ho fashion, like an inexperienced boxer who'd look flashy but was taken out by one punch. So he tried to rectify that. From January Sturridge and Coutinho sprung a surprise and we settled into a nice counter attacking side. But with Coutinho getting marked and him not getting on the ball we looked ordinary going forward except for a few brief moments this season so far.

So we held on to leads by defending well. Rodgers gets confused again, 3 wins out of 3 by playing football that is not akin to his philosophy. So his indecisiveness about his philosophy runs into the players. He isn't sure anymore. That's why he picked 4 CB's because he felt we could nick it again somehow and hold on. That is going completely against his philosophy of 'death by Football'. Southampton gave us a lesson in how to play the football Rodgers wants us to play.

He needs to decide what kind of side he wants us to be. If its minus Gerrard its fine but he has to believe in himself about what he is trying to do here. A few flashes will not suffice for me. Play the football you want us to play and buy players you want to. He isn't Rafa where he can be pragmatic and still play winning football. He will get found out IMO.




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Offline Kovai Red

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2013, 07:48:35 am »
For me, the whole team lacked in ideas of creative play. We were dwelling on the ball and I think we've been found out by the opposition. Press us quickly, we'll lose the ball. If we don't pass it quickly, I think more teams will easily press us and knock us out of the ball. Gerrard needs some rest and I don't think we have someone who can play in that role except Allen. At least until Johnson is back, we should stick to 3 Cbs at the back. Against the Mancs, I would like to see Gerrard coming off the bench. Now especially with Coutinho being out, it becomes imperative that Alberto should be played if we are to have any creativity in midfield.

We simply didn't turned up for the game and we played as it were a friendly game.
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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2013, 09:00:56 am »
I think across the board we were outmatched in intensity and accuracy on match day. We turned up and from the get go our ball control, pass selection, positioning and decision making within the game were much below the standard that we've seen for many games this year. We seemed to either linger on the ball for too long or would try to force a pass too quickly. This means that we kept giving the ball away and this stop start/frenetic nature means that you can't build up tempo and confidence. We just need to work on execution and make sure our passes stick. Similarly, there needs to be a bit more intelligence about how we build up play from the back. We're getting caught out a bit with Mignolet. Tactically, I think Rodgers probably needs to evaluate how best to use Aspas and how to get width out of the side if we don't have our fullbacks. I think the game probably highlights the lack of dynamism, physical and tactical presence in central midfield. These are all issues that Rodgers will need to address either by new signings, or tactical adjustments to circumvent these shortcomings.

That being said, we're struggling a bit with injuries/fitness/availability - Sturridge, Coutinho, Enrique, Johnson, Agger, Cissokho, Allen, Kelly - all players that can have an impact on the first team that aren't playing, or aren't in their best physical condition (not to mention Suarez unavaialable). When you take out 8 players from your best matchday squad, then you can expect a considerable dip in performance.

It's disappointing because it would have been nice to really make Anfield that fortress again. I think it serves to emphasise that there are no off days in the league, and that even at home you have to turn up physically and mentally ready to perform at the top level otherwise you can just forget about getting any points from the game.

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2013, 09:02:40 am »
As falling to Earth events go, this was pretty catastrophic. It's hard to pick positives from the actual performance, but at least it is only one match and thanks to the results in the earlier matches we are still well placed in the table.

Four CBs was simply a mistake. It may have been forced upon Rodgers with injuries etc, but it seemed like a clear message that he does not trust Wisdom anymore. It was clear by the middle of the first half that we were struggling to put attacks together because there was no support on the wings for Moses etc. Toure made a nice run or two forward but they were a rarity. Sakho came forward in the opening minutes but then seemed to settle back into defence.

We also failed to pressurise Southampton high up the pitch and all I can think is that this was also down to not having the numbers higher up because Sakho and Toure didn't support. I've no evidence to back this up, but it seems sensible.  On the flip side Southampton were harrying us superbly in our own third. We never looked settled and when we did try to play it out we panicked.

All of this led to the first half becoming a non-event (free kick and penalty claim aside).

Second half and while it was good to see a change for Aspas it was the wrong change as it was blatantly obvious that our issues did not lie up front but in the FB positions. I like Rodgers because in the past when he's made a mistake with his tactics or lineup he fixes it early (see Wigan at home and Everton away last year).  This time he just didn't seem to see it.

The goal when it came was just embarrassing. First Skrtel failing to pick up a simple pass and conceding a throw-in and then Toure conceding a needless corner. It was inevitable that they'd score from something like that. I don't think it's fair to say that the goal had been coming as we'd still looked reasonably solid from set pieces up to that point. But Southamptons harrying of Mignolet, the defence and Lucas/Gerrard was working a treat and we just looked completely disjointed.

When Rodgers did change things around it was far too late. Enrique didn't look great so perhaps he was carrying an injury (if so why have him on the bench?), and it was far too late when we switch Henderson to rightback.  I actually think Toure and Sakho look good in the centre and perhaps this is the starting two we should go with against Man U.

The lack of fluidity up front was something we can only hope will be fixed by bringing back Suarez. Given Rodgers willingness to play the likes of Suso and Sterling last year due to our squad depth I'm amazed he didn't show faith in Luis Alberto from the start with our two most flair players out.  When Alberto did come on, it was far far too late in the day.

Not to be too cliched but it was the 'bad day at the office' that happens. It's disappointing because it was against a team that we really should be beating (and that's no disrespect to Southampton who played superbly).

Of course it doesn't help that many of the players put in either poor performances or very average performances. Gerrard, Lucas and Agger were the worst for me because they are such senior players.

For me it isn't really back to the drawing board but I would argue that there needs to be some form of experimentation against Man U. If we are lacking full backs, revert to 3 at the back which Rodgers was happy to try last season. Give Agger, Sakho and Toure the job and put Henderson in the right midfield position. Give Alberto a start as well.

On the plus side we have 10 points from our opening 5 games which is top 4 form, but we need to push on now and look to gain as many points as possible from Sunderland, Crystal Palace, Newcastle and West Brom.

Oh and Brendan, don't take this the wrong way. I mean I like you and I've supported you since day one. I've defended you to other Liverpool fans who have no patience and refuse to get behind a manager because he isn't a previous legend. But ffs, stop giving interviews in which you say we are battling for 4th/the title/2nd/etc. It's a kiss of death.  I think that's 3 times now that you've said something along those lines and we've lost the next match.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 09:07:26 am by helmboy_nige »

Offline wah00ey

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2013, 09:52:49 am »
I think we're possibly the easiest side in the premiership for a manager to decide appropriate tactics to use against at the moment.  Starting with 4 at the back only made Poccettino's tactical decisions even more simple, and in the event, even easier to impose on us.  Hassle and harry the keeper and defenders and player a pacy, passing game through the midfield.  Not all teams are able to implement this, depending on their personnel, but Swansea and Southampton were both more than capable.

Yes, it could have been different had the penalty been given.  Sometimes, you just can't win as a striker - stay on your feet and not get a penalty and you should have gone down; go down too easily and you're a diver.  Sturridge tried to stay on his feet and we were denied a fairly clear (on replay) penalty.  For me, most referees really are making very quick guesses based on what they think they've seen and, unless the dive is really obvious, you get the penalty if they think no contact was made with the ball.  Every time.  I don't like it, but Sturridge should not have tried to stay on his feet if we want to win that penalty appeal.

That, though, is by the by.  When we went behind, you never felt like we could recover.  Did the players themselves know they'd been setup poorly and it was going to be difficult to win so their heads dropped a little?  I think we're missing leadership AND decision making on the pitch and I think our movement off the ball is poor - I think it has been for several years now despite the recent good run.  And I really really hate seeing square pegs in round holes unless injurys dictate.  Play a left back at left back unless you really do have no other choice.  I'm not necessarily convinced Brendan's back four was the result of trying to keep all his big-name and recently signed defenders happy.  I suspect it was more to do with an attempt to give Sakho game time to get him used to the nature of the premiership as soon as possible, reward Skrtel for recent endeavours and see if he can be moulded into a Brendan Rodgers defender and he did probably feel that Toure would at least attempt to get forward from right-back.  Regardless, it didn't work but my major worry is the midfield currently - it's far too easily outpaced and overpowered.  I've no idea what we can do about that with our given personnel but that's BR's problem to resolve and I've not seen evidence that he has any more idea than I do about that at the moment.
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Offline CLOCKSPEED

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2013, 10:04:12 am »

we've carried luck every game and it finally ran out - Gerrard's stupid workload over the last couple of weeks was transparent -


Nutshell however it is up to the manger of the club to identify what you have done and make the required changes

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2013, 10:10:12 am »

Half-time saw Aspas subbed and I was really surprised, I thought he'd had a good first half, he created chances and worked hard for the team. Generally I'm not a massive fan of starting players and then subbing them at half time, you've got to show faith and back your starting line up.



I thought that was a bit harsh too. He made the effort to press and made a chance for himself by doing so. He could have linked the play better, but the service to the forwards was dreadful all game.
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Offline redk84

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2013, 10:18:39 am »
was a terrible performance from the redmen.

the setup of the team and attitude of the players were both lazy. We looked complacent and deserved to get beaten in the end.

There was no imagination in our attacking play, our tactics and player selection didnt help us and we were unbalanced, outmuscled and outworked on the day.

Bad day, but its my opinion that it should serve as a warning for now and any future period the team seem to be doing well as to what happens if you dont put the necessary thought and effort into each fixture....it shouldn't be dwelled on, cos that breeds negativity and hesitance going forward. Fuck knows we've seen enough of that over the last couple of seasons.

We need to be stronger mentally and put this behind us sharpish
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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2013, 10:22:25 am »
The gap between Toure/Aspas and Sakho/Moses was the most glaring thing for me, it meant the ball was easily recycled by Soton, who pretty quickly worked out how to pen us back in our own half. Lucas/Gerrard are then forced to plug the gaps, resort to more and more long-balls, which frankly is not our game, and why we sold Carroll. To play the Rodgers 'system' effectively you need galloping wing-backs, who get tight to the forwards, pushing the opposition back, and allowing our central midfield trio to press further up the pitch. Having said that, even with Johnson and Enrique plus with Coutinho in the side, we have still been pushed and harried back into our own half for long stretches of the game this season. The argument was that this was tactical, the low-block, call it what you want, it is a recipe for disaster, because without Mignolet it could be argued that we might only have 3/4 points right now after five games, mirroring the awful start we had last year. Post-match all the lads at the pub agreed that we lack drive in the middle of the pitch, and that we have a bit of a soft-centre. Was my biggest worry before the match and it panned out that way. Had we played Enrique from the beginning and a more natural right-back, we might have seen us push further up the pitch and retain better possession, but even then, their quicker passing and better movement would have resulted in large periods of domination for them. PoP said we played in straight lines, and you could see that, only Aspas made a few diagonal runs, it was all to easy for Soton. Rodgers when he's good, and most of the time he is, I really enjoy the way we are playing, the type of players he likes, but every now and then he drops these clangers, where tactically he makes some rather basic mistakes, that should not be happening at this level and certainly not for a club like us. We have injuries and squad depth is still not that great in vital positions, so circumstances did not help, but four CB's giving no support to Aspas/Moses, basic error.



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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2013, 10:32:10 am »
I'll start by stating, catagorically, that i'm a big supporter of Rodgers. I like what he has outlined as his vision for the club and what he is gradually building towards. Even when we've disappointed during his tenure, i've generally been quite positive because the shoots of that vision are evident.

Unfortunately yesterday I couldn't say that. That was the first time under Rodgers where i've left the stadium a little dishearted. I honestly couldn't see that vision in action at all. When I think of a Brendan Rodgers system, I think of domination of possession. Constant, persistant passing. Intelligent movement. Intensive, collective pressure. Controlled aggression. Yet, i've seen very little of any of that this season. Next to none in certain games, or even a great deal of desire to enact it, and Rodgers has explained this as being tactical on more than one occasion. Now, i've been positive about that as well, this apparent tactical flexibility. The ability to recognise the strengths of your opposition and adapt in order to negate them is a good trait in my opinion. It's good to have more than one string to your bow and my feelings were along the lines of; if we can master the ability to play a low block and counter effectively, and couple that with our 'default' style, you have a very flexible - and therefore unpredictible and increasingly dangerous - opponent. But my question is starting to become; what now is the default? Has Rodgers abandoned his well documented vision in light of a newfound pragmatism, with short term results taking precedence over a long(er) term vision?

There is an argument that injuries (and suspensions) have forced the managers hand somewhat, with Johnson, Coutinho, Toure, Agger, Allen and Suarez all missing at times already this season. And all, arguably, key components of what Rodgers wants and expects of his team. But then, the retention of Skrtel in the starting lineup is a counter argument to that, because, as others have stated, despite his excellent individual performances, there are still big question marks over his impact on the team and system overall. I was chatting to SFiasco before the game and he brought up Flanagan as an option at right back in Johnson's absence. We both agreed that he will likely never become what we need longer term, but there is surely some merit to the suggestion that an average full back offers more in their natural position than an out of position centre back might. Without going over trodden ground, selecting four centre backs despite the obvious intention of Southampton to press our defensive unit at every opportunity was a mistake.

And that segways nicely to that Southampton pressure. They were excellent at it, no two ways about that. Aggressive, persistant - everything that we weren't. But it was far from unexpected. They did the same thing at Old Trafford, and at White Hart Lane. They did the same thing to us at St.Marys in March as well. Rodgers talked pre-game about learning from the mistakes of that day, and it was painfully evident that we hadn't. We failed to cope with it at all, and that was a worry. Any opposition manager who has watched our previous two games will have discarded the pencil and etched in their tactical blueprint for the Liverpool game in permanent marker. How we look to counteract this tactic moving forward now becomes key. We need to find a way to get around it and quickly.

In the end, despite creating very little themselves, Southampton deserved the result and the ovation that they received, if only due to the simple, yet effective gameplan and the unified desire that they brought with them. For us, well, it's five games in and it's important not to overreact, but I have more questions than I think i've had at any point under Brendan. We could really use a result on Wednesday to prevent the momentum we've slowly built since January from dissipating completely.
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Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2013, 10:35:26 am »
For me this game was all about the injuries. We started the season well and playing well, but as soon as we began to pick up injuries to key players we began to look less and less convincing. Coutinhio is a huge loss, as is Johnson (though his defense is appalling, he does offer width) and lets no forget we also lost Cissokho and Allen, both of whom you might have expected to come on and make a difference.

The key difference though is creativity. I feel sending Borini on loan was a bad mistake, there is no benefit in my opinion to that move, particularly when his replacement is also a loan. Moses for me is a bustling, direct player. Whats needed is more guile. Borini was a very mobile player who made a lot of intelligent runs that his team mates didn't always appreciate. He would have been very useful against the Saints I feel.

Outside of that the 4 CBs caught everyone's attention and a lot was made of it. Personally I think too much might have been made of it. Dropping Enrique was a surprise but there have been inklings that Rodgers doesn't rate him. Why I don't know, his delivery might not be the best but he runs the lines as well as anyone I have seen in a red shirt and he is a tough tackling FB. Given the alternative was Agger, a player we have previously seen at LB, but not a natural FB per se, I thought that was a mistake. But on the other side it was a straight choice between Wisdom and A N Other. Wisdom has been cruelly exposed at times this season and is still too raw. So, considering the injuries, it made sense to try one of the CBs there. Kelly was a long shot, but is probably still miles off the pace.

No, for me it was the midfield where the problems lay. The ever present three of Henderson, Gerrard and Lucas are a decent combination, but there is too much emphasis on Gerrard's role. Both Henderson and Lucas are basically reactive players and are there to tackle and establish the platform for the playermaker and midfield general to set the tempo. That is left to Gerrard, a player who is 33 and starting to tire in games. Asking him to play a disciplined, metronomic passing game is also hard for a dynamic box-to-box runner. The result will be games like against Southampton where one off performance drags down the entire side. Selling Shelvey and Spearing made sense at the time, but not getting cover for the middle did not. Alberto is one for the future, though i think he might have been brought in earlier in that game in fairness.

That only leaves the frontline, where Sturridge was subdued due to the lack of creativity behind him, as was Aspas. Its easy pick on Aspas is particular, but not once this season have I seen the fluidity and movement that opened up the lower league sides for routine 4 and 5 nil beatings. Pragmatism and solidity come at the cost of guile and creativity, perhaps a better balance is needed here, to help the front line flourish more.

Midfield then, was key for me in this defeat. I think it would be interesting against Utd to rest Gerrard and bring Allen back in.
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2013, 10:38:56 am »
I'll start by stating, catagorically, that i'm a big supporter of Rodgers. I like what he has outlined as his vision for the club and what he is gradually building towards. Even when we've disappointed during his tenure, i've generally been quite positive because the shoots of that vision are evident.

Unfortunately yesterday I couldn't say that. That was the first time under Rodgers where i've left the stadium a little dishearted. I honestly couldn't see that vision in action at all. When I think of a Brendan Rodgers system, I think of domination of possession. Constant, persistant passing. Intelligent movement. Intensive, collective pressure. Controlled aggression. Yet, i've seen very little of any of that this season. Next to none in certain games, or even a great deal of desire to enact it, and Rodgers has explained this as being tactical on more than one occasion.

Rodgers stated in more than one post game interview that sitting back wasn´t the initial plan, that it happened as the game went on. He still likes us to dominate, keep possession, death by football...all that. But it just doesn´t work. The reasons are up for debate but I think it´s still a combination of players unwilling to do so as it´s much easier to rely on Coutinho and Sturrdige compared to trying to play this sort of football where everybody puts his talent on the line. You just have to look at Gerrard and how often he goes for the long ball..

It´s not an easy thing Rodgers is asking from his players though, last season, there was a freshness and naitivity around which helped but in this one I had the impression that the players are shit scared with the ball. Frankly, this hasn´t changed since Rafa left, only in a short period under Kenny right after he took over and last seasons when players didn´t have the pressure trying out what Rodgers asked them to do I had the feeling we could dominate games with the ball.

But I think the players can do it, even Swansea can do it, but the combination of pressure and lack of talent seems to paralyse our players whenever the get the ball and whenever they should make themselves available. They hide and hope for the best, that´s what it looks like at the moment to me.

Thing is though, with this kind of attitude you could have any tactics in the world and it wouldn´t work. The players have to show the desire for playing football first.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 10:40:49 am by steveeastend »
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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2013, 10:40:42 am »
Dropping Enrique was a surprise but there have been inklings that Rodgers doesn't rate him. Why I don't know, his delivery might not be the best but he runs the lines as well as anyone I have seen in a red shirt and he is a tough tackling FB.

Enrique gave the ball away 5 times in about 10minutes after coming on - he is brainless, he stopped about 2 platforms for attack with poor passing (one of which went straight into touch.) He isn't that good at defending as he gets turned easily and looses his marking target constantly. He gets our of jail a lot due to his impressive strength and speed, but a better fullback wouldn't be putting himself in those situations.

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2013, 10:43:11 am »
Quote
No, for me it was the midfield where the problems lay. The ever present three of Henderson, Gerrard and Lucas are a decent combination, but there is too much emphasis on Gerrard's role. Both Henderson and Lucas are basically reactive players and are there to tackle and establish the platform for the playermaker and midfield general to set the tempo. That is left to Gerrard, a player who is 33 and starting to tire in games. Asking him to play a disciplined, metronomic passing game is also hard for a dynamic box-to-box runner. The result will be games like against Southampton where one off performance drags down the entire side. Selling Shelvey and Spearing made sense at the time, but not getting cover for the middle did not. Alberto is one for the future, though i think he might have been brought in earlier in that game in fairness.

The problem is if our full backs and forwards are not cohesive and creating anything there's a massive onus on Gerrard/Lucas to take up that role. Lucas offers very little in attack these days and shouldn't really be expected to. Describing Henderson as a reactive player is an interesting description and probably one I agree with. In those circumstances how on earth are we meant to get any creativity from the middle of the park? How can Gerrard be expected to be a deep lying midfielder AND our creative hub? It's impossible. Injuries don't account for just how badly we played on Saturday but I agree it had a huge impact on how cohesive we were (or weren't, as it happened).
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 10:45:06 am by Guz-kop »
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Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2013, 10:58:55 am »
Rodgers stated in more than one post game interview that sitting back wasn´t the initial plan, that it happened as the game went on.

Well, if I recall, he stated that it was a tactical decision to move to a deeper press in the second half (against Swansea and Villa, in particular). He also stated following the United game that we "went too deep, too fast". At no point did he state that it wasn't the plan to drop off and play that deeper press again, just that we went deeper than expected. There was a logic to those decisions on each occasion, but it certainly looks like pragmatism being favoured over the default 'sterile domination' and 'resting on the ball' that we've all been waiting for, but have thus far failed to see enacted. Southampton showed that it was possible to defend a 1-0 lead on the front foot. We've thus far failed to even try.

I don't want to be too critical because it's clearly not all bad and there are mitigating factors, but I can't shake the feeling that Brendan perhaps needs to re-discover his own vision a little. Flexibility and pragmatism are positive traits to have, but not at the expense of your overall philosophy.

Thing is though, with this kind of attitude you could have any tactics in the world and it wouldn´t work. The players have to show the desire for playing football first.

And that was another huge disappointment from Saturday, for me. Despite the inconsistent performances this season, the underlying positive was the apparent spirit amonst the players. The desire to grind out a result at all costs almost papered over the silky style being missing. On Saturday we saw neither.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 11:02:50 am by Grobbelrevell »
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Online Draex

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2013, 11:22:14 am »

I don't want to be too critical because it's clearly not all bad and there are mitigating factors, but I can't shake the feeling that Brendan perhaps needs to re-discover his own vision a little. Flexibility and pragmatism are positive traits to have, but not at the expense of your overall philosophy.


Rodgers wont re-discover this untill he drops one of Gerrard or Lucas - the whole system has been changed from a 1/2 to a 2/1 to accomodate both and its at a detriment to the team. Having 2 "holders" also means our center halves don't split wide enough which has a knock on effect to the fullbacks not pushing on higher up the pitch which reduces the distance for the link to their widemen etc. I know this was a move to try and combat the constant vulnerability from quick counter attacks down the center, but it's created far more problems and with defenders like Toure/Agger/Sakho (who are excellent high line 1 v 1 defenders) That threat is a lot less this season. We seem to have bought the defenders we need to counter our major flaw last season, but have yet to change the tactics back so we now have this missmatch of styles and players all stuck into a very odd shaped team.

PoP might of said it's only 3 games, but can you honestly say it's not been coming? We've ridden our luck a lot this season and a defeat was close many times. We've played well in 10/20 minute sections but for the majority we've been disjointed, have no link between the defense/midfield/attack and can't keep the ball.

Has Rodgers got the right men behind him? Does he need someone who will question him? Has he got yes men? I'd love them to bring back fans Q&A, 1hour with representatives from all the accredited fan sites/forums who can ask Rodgers questions - I'm sure people would happily question the continually Gerrard inclusion, the regression on his philopsophy etc. He'd certainly be grilled harder than his back room staff appear to.

A question.. Has Rodgers got too much control? FSG clearly don't understand football in the tactical/team etc. sense, everything is pinned on Rodgers and he sold this vision originally. Why aren't questions being asked as to why we have deviated from the plan so much? Would a Director of Football get him checked and ask the hard questions that need solving?

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2013, 11:54:21 am »
I don't want to be too critical because it's clearly not all bad and there are mitigating factors, but I can't shake the feeling that Brendan perhaps needs to re-discover his own vision a little. Flexibility and pragmatism are positive traits to have, but not at the expense of your overall philosophy.


I agree.

To be fair, he shouted a couple of times for the players to keep the ball during those games though. I still think he wants us to play the way he planned when he first came in but for a couple of reasons it just doesn´t work out.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline penga

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2013, 12:11:56 pm »


Firstly all our natural fullbacks are injured or unfit (Enrique) so there is not much you can do. The only other option was to play Henderson RB and give him the graveyard shift but Rodgers wants to give his new signings a go so fair enough I suppose. The bigger problem is the midfield and lack of rotating options to pass to and the ability to turn.

It's true we can struggle when we are pressed but its clearly not all Skrtel as people love to make out and what some of you are essentially saying (well the OP anyway) is because he gave away a throw he gave away the goal.

For the goal there is no doubt Skrtel makes the brain cock up but the amount of blame he is getting is ridiculous. Preceding the goal, Hendo plays the obvious but shit pass that puts Toure under pressure from 3 players so he goes back to Skrtel who is under pressure from 1 player and only option is to hack it away but doesn't want to do this otherwise he will be given shit for hoofing (route back to Mignolet is covered from the press, no other options to pass to) and so while he looks back towards the other side and sees nothing on he hesitates for a moment and strangely ends up letting the ball go out. Both of those players that ended up playing hospital balls could have turned their man with a bit of nous (Hendo play to Sterling or Toure turn towards touchline and play to Hendo) and made a different pass but they passed the responsibility. You can see is 6:23 in this video, there are options for those 2 but what is Skrtel to do?

<a href="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=75116589" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=75116589</a>

You could blame him for being a bit slow to react to throw in but until the ball was thrown towards the box there was and unmarked man near the thrower (Southampton no.9) because Toure leaves him well before the throw in and no1 else tracked back. Maybe he thought Agger could've come in as well because he was slightly closer and could already see him without having to turn his back like Skrtel had to. Furthermore you could equally say Toure could've kept that ball in and not rolled it out for a corner if he took a good touch or had a bit more composure. Then obviously Agger falls over trying to contest the corner.

In general are any of our other CBs actually that much better than Skrtel with their comfort on the ball?
Toure ended the Saints game with 65.9% pass accuracy
Agger 75%
Sakho 83.6%
Skrtel 86.1%
Enrique 66.7%

Why were the former so low if they are meant to be comfortable when pressed? Furthermore look at 5:40 of the highlights video...didn't see many people so quick to mention that which was even worse mistake than Skrtel's.

In the other argument Skrtel doesn't drag the team back, he is the aggressor CB when Agger plays. In fact Agger is always the deepest, he plays the sweeping role.
You can see from their average positions:
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/145542-lfc-0-1-southampton-opta-chalkboards (Skrtel/Agger partnership)
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/144033-lfc-1-0-united-opta-chalkboards (Skrtel/Agger partnership)
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/145156-swansea-2-2-lfc-opta-chalkboards (Skrtel/Sakho partnership): Sakho was the aggressor, Skrtel had to cover and did well in this game.
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/142888-opta-chalkboards-lfc-1-0-stoke (Toure/Agger partnership): Very high line played but more indicative of the match conditions explained below:

How deep the CBs are overall is dictated by the team's control on the game and clearly in those 2nd halves our opponents have dominated us in possession and chance creation while our pressing pretty much stopped which means the team HAS to drop back. It is not the supposed effect of 1 man, pressing starts from the top end and retaining possession is more down to the midfield. Clearly in the Stoke game we had control of the whole game, they are not a possession team and had no pace up front with Crouch so that allowed us to go high with Toure/Agger.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 12:24:22 pm by penga »

Offline freddwarf

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Re: Round Table LFC 0-1 Southampton.
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2013, 12:18:36 pm »
Haven't seen the game so here goes..

Culprit No.1: Rodgers, defence all wrong, left & right back crucial positions when building attacks and in support.Playing centre backs in both full backs..a no-no.

Culprit No.2: Rodgers didn't fire them up, not enough effort to make up for low quality V swansea, should have fired them up for this, deadpan from the off. A good run needs to be kept at it not just drift out there.

Culprit No.3: Rodgers, play Alberto in place of Hendo, better balance in midfield. Holder Lucas, playmaker Gerrard, runner Hendo...well you need more of a creative type as the 3rd midfielder. You need a combination of Hendo's energy with a touch of creativity. Willian would have fitted the bill but was well over priced at £30m. Hendo for me is mid-table, not on his own there.

When I actually see the game I will be more constructive. Leave it there.