Topic: Round Table - Fulham 1-3 Liverpool

[CHOPPER]

Long gone are the days of going a goal down away from home and getting those feelings of "a draw will do, if we can even get that!"

A differing mentality and belief in the team these days - nothing phases them, they continue to play the way they've set out to, they don't panic and if anything - build up the pressure cooker as opposed to floundering if a few chances go begging.


Next season will be won in the mind, not solely by the play. The play is in place it just needs a few tweaks.


3-5-2-ish. Fuckin dinosaur system. SLN.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Long gone are the days of going a goal down away from home and getting those feelings of "a draw will do, if we can even get that!"

A differing mentality and belief in the team these days - nothing phases them, they continue to play the way they've set out to, they don't panic and if anything - build up the pressure cooker as opposed to floundering if a few chances go begging.


Next season will be won in the mind, not solely by the play. The play is in place it just needs a few tweaks.


3-5-2-ish. Fuckin dinosaur system. SLN.

Wait until you see the W-M formation we play in against QPR!

[CHOPPER]

Wait until you see the W-M formation we play in against QPR!

Prefer that formation, more constonant than the A-E-I-O-U formations that give too many vowels away.


*I want more harumphing at the back*

[Yorkykopite]

Long gone are the days of going a goal down away from home and getting those feelings of "a draw will do, if we can even get that!"

A differing mentality and belief in the team these days - nothing phases them, they continue to play the way they've set out to, they don't panic and if anything - build up the pressure cooker as opposed to floundering if a few chances go begging.

My feeling too Chopper.

On the face of it - league table position and what not - we haven't progressed much this season. But the experience of watching Liverpool is much different. Well my experience is anyway. Not only are we more entertaining (a real joy to watch on some occasions), but we seem more intelligent and dynamic on the ball - and we seem less on the back foot all the time. Like you I don't fear us going a goal down - and I haven't had that feeling for ages.

I'd say it's a very exciting time to be a Pool fan. Especially when next season you consider that Brendan Rodgers will be a veteran! Of all the clubs that finished above us in the league this season only one will start next season with a manager who's been at the helm longer than Rodgers. The playing field's not level of course. It can't be when you get Man City and Chelsea splashing cash around. But it'll be a bit more level than it was perhaps.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Prefer that formation, more constonant than the A-E-I-O-U formations that give too many vowels away.


*I want more harumphing at the back*

I didn't get a "harumph" from that guy...

[CHOPPER]

My feeling too Chopper.

On the face of it - league table position and what not - we haven't progressed much this season. But the experience of watching Liverpool is much different. Well my experience is anyway. Not only are we more entertaining (a real joy to watch on some occasions), but we seem more intelligent and dynamic on the ball - and we seem less on the back foot all the time. Like you I don't fear us going a goal down - and I haven't had that feeling for ages.

I'd say it's a very exciting time to be a Pool fan. Especially when next season you consider that Brendan Rodgers will be a veteran! Of all the clubs that finished above us in the league this season only one will start next season with a manager who's been at the helm longer than Rodgers. The playing field's not level of course. It can't be when you get Man City and Chelsea splashing cash around. But it'll be a bit more level than it was perhaps.

Indeed exciting.

It's hard to explain to statistical driven people(this site) that 'feel' is a big thing. You can't quantify it, draw a board of it, correlate against net feel. You just feel it from what you've had in life following and watching Liverpool....well it is for me anyway.

The future is bright and above all else, I'm just enjoying watching us play and how we play football these days, you feel we want to go out and win every single game and that shows it self in the feel of when we go a goal down. Refreshing maybe too stronger word for it, but it does have that air to it.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Indeed exciting.

It's hard to explain to statistical driven people(this site) that 'feel' is a big thing. You can't quantify it, draw a board of it, correlate against net feel. You just feel it from what you've had in life following and watching Liverpool....well it is for me anyway.

The future is bright and above all else, I'm just enjoying watching us play and how we play football these days, you feel we want to go out and win every single game and that shows it self in the feel of when we go a goal down. Refreshing maybe too stronger word for it, but it does have that air to it.

[CHOPPER]

Our disciples strike me more like this

[PhaseOfPlay]

Our disciples strike me more like this

It gets complicated though...

[GrkStav]

We are, many of us males in this forum, young teenagers, at heart, aren't we? :-)

Qwaleetee jpegs, and masterfully deployed.

Now, on to the boring formation/tactics nonsense:

3-4-1-2 has what Juan Loco described as its fatal flaw: you man-mark the $hit out of the '1' and it's dire. Even with Gerrard at his best there, it's not THAT difficult to do.

There's also the 3-4-2-1 option. I would have Suarez as the '1' here, thus negating the need for him to be positionally disciplined and stay on "one side of the field'.

[the 92A]

Too much frivolity, joviality and general optimism on this thread but Chopper's right on this occasion, the feelings there. Possibilities.

[PhaseOfPlay]

We are, many of us males in this forum, young teenagers, at heart, aren't we? :-)

Qwaleetee jpegs, and masterfully deployed.

Now, on to the boring formation/tactics nonsense:

3-4-1-2 has what Juan Loco described as its fatal flaw: you man-mark the $hit out of the '1' and it's dire. Even with Gerrard at his best there, it's not THAT difficult to do.

There's also the 3-4-2-1 option. I would have Suarez as the '1' here, thus negating the need for him to be positionally disciplined and stay on "one side of the field'.

Man-marking is a double-edged sword though. Let's say a team plays a 4-1-3-2 against your 3-4-1-2, and the holding mid man-marks the attacking mid on your team.

Now imagine the Attacking mid is intelligent, realises what it happening, and takes the holding mid for a wander. What happens then?

A great big gaping hole appears in front of the defence. Either a forward can check into it and turn in comfort, or a central mid can push up on transition (or to make things more screwy - a wingback can cut inside in front of the defence, dragging their shape all over the place and creating all sorts of problems). So the 4-1-3-2 team decides to forego the man-marking, and play with the holding mid. The attacking mid now has space either side of him to play in.

For every measure, there's a counter-measure. For me, the "1" in the 3-4-1-2 isn't an issue, as long as we can be flexible in the shape and understand how to change our strategy to counter the other team.

[Prof]

You are spot on PoP.

It is only a problem if your number 10 is your only creative player.

How would you cope against a Rafa style 4231 though? 

On another note, if we had Mata, Hazard and Oscar, how would we accommodate them?  All defensively suspect in the same way as Coutinho and Suarez are.  I'd quite like a fluid three swapping jobs playing behind Sturridge.  It would need clearly defined triggers and a tactically aware back 6 to plug any gaps.

[steveeastend]

To me, it was very important to see that the overall attitude was about winning and not letting the season end one way or another.

The flaws and issues were well discussed over the length of the season and on this thread as well, the foundation is there and games like this just show that the hunger and desire of the majority of the players for winning games and enjoying football is there.

Strangely this should be going without saying, to be expected on this level, but it isnīt. Itīs the very basic of it all and itīs good to see that Rodgers and the squad seem to be united and up for winning games whenever putting on the shirt.

Speaking of basics... I wonder when it will sink into the players that defending crosses basically has nothing to do with a manager having to tell whoever being in the full back position. Itīs not something which will be practised as the core issue in a training session and maybe for that, our players kind of "forget" about it. Or maybe they donīt even are aware of it as it happend so often this season, so I hope Rodgers has a word or two here considering the number of goals we conceded from crosses so far.

Defending here happens in two parts, first the one who should prevent the cross and then the ones in the middle trying to make it possible to know where the ball might be going as there is always luck involved here as well.

All of our nice work will be useless if we wonīt sort out the basics. This is one of them (left)...

[Juan Loco]

On another note, if we had Mata, Hazard and Oscar, how would we accommodate them? 

Play 2 from 3 and have a strong bench for a change

[CHOPPER]

Too much frivolity, joviality and general optimism on this thread but Chopper's right on this occasion, the feelings there. Possibilities.

'On this occasion' Cheeky bastard............I'm always chuffin right


Coutinho has given Rodgers something to really think about for next season with his performances in the middle over the last few games. This game epitomised exactly why I think we should keep him in there.

[Vulmea]

Man-marking is a double-edged sword though. Let's say a team plays a 4-1-3-2 against your 3-4-1-2, and the holding mid man-marks the attacking mid on your team.

Now imagine the Attacking mid is intelligent, realises what it happening, and takes the holding mid for a wander. What happens then?

A great big gaping hole appears in front of the defence. Either a forward can check into it and turn in comfort, or a central mid can push up on transition (or to make things more screwy - a wingback can cut inside in front of the defence, dragging their shape all over the place and creating all sorts of problems). So the 4-1-3-2 team decides to forego the man-marking, and play with the holding mid. The attacking mid now has space either side of him to play in.

For every measure, there's a counter-measure. For me, the "1" in the 3-4-1-2 isn't an issue, as long as we can be flexible in the shape and understand how to change our strategy to counter the other team.

as long as you treat them as starting positions - buts thats the problem saying you want a continental style 10 pulling the strings - if he's static he gets stamped on - if he's mobile the better practised teams just pass him on to the next in line - we saw Tiote kick Coutinho out the game against Newcastle for 30 minutes, without a booking and newcastle on the day were the most inept team we've played, we've seen the lad disapear against chelsea and everton when they've crowded the midfield - because they are drilled for exactly the problem you state and have two sitting deep not one- many of the teams in the prem will sit deep there wont be a lot of space and they will be lining up to test his 'commitment'.

I think/hope BR is looking for  a far more mobile three or four forward players than a classic 1-2 - given your example imagine switching to a 2- 1 and their players having to worry about both Suarez and Coutinho whilst Sturridge is dragging on the shoulder of the last man - against the weaker teams you can also imagine a fourth player sitting wide Borini or Downing or Tello or whoever it is giving their centre halves a real dilema on who and where they should be covering - its a good place to be but for all that attacking intent you need a stable platform with defenders capable of handling one on one situations  and you need to be able to compress play unless you are attempting a more counter attacking style which to be fair we have - I'm not sure adding an extra central defender provides that you seem to have more players at either end of the field...........

early season we did tend to have a tedious build up  and be very poor on the rapid counter almost as though it were heresy ( our counter attacking was even worse under Kenny)- we have though reversed that and if anything go direct far too often - I guess he is trying to work out the best balance between the two - maybe that'll depend on who we can bring in during the summer - if we can find another mobile forward maybe its more likely we go 4231 - a quality mobile centre back and 3 at the back becoms more possible - both and we really will have options