Author Topic: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares  (Read 302779 times)

Offline Something Else

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2440 on: May 6, 2009, 05:38:25 pm »
I think it's reasonable to assume that any potential suitors are biding their time until it's squeaky bum time for H&G as the July deadline approaches. 

The re-fi is highly unlikely to happen on terms that they could handle, hence the mad scramble to dispose of their other assets, which no-one wants at their unrealistic prices.  Furthermore, even if they dispose of their assets on time, they're so leveraged, combined with the fact that the asset values are (a) depressed anyway and (b) depressed even further as any sale of them would be akin to a fire-sale, that such disposals wouldn't actually release that much cash anyway. 

So, it looks like we're stuck with this waiting game until July and all we can do is pray that H&G run out of options and blink first.



i would hope at this point, any potential new owners were getting ready to go through dd

Offline guyko21

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2441 on: May 6, 2009, 06:37:01 pm »
Apologies if you've already answered this before guyko, but what do you or your contacts think will happen if H&G simply say to the banks, "we can't afford your new terms, but here's what we can do"... 

is it more likely the banks (not wanting the hassel of owning a football club) give in to H&G or will they 'repossess ' the club and sell us on?

thanks.


I think the banks would force a sale.  We're desirable to the right owners who don't need an immediate cash return.  The banks do not want to re-fi H&G.  Credit is still very tight and their track record is abysmal.  Re-fi on favourable terms is apparently out of the question. 

Seems that H&G are playing a game of brinkmanship but as ever with these two charlatans, I don't think they appreciate (a) how the world has turned full circle and (b) the kind of businessmen they're now up against. 


Offline lfctitch

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2442 on: May 6, 2009, 07:08:24 pm »
i would hope at this point, any potential new owners were getting ready to go through dd

Got to agree with you, any reasonable new owners would want to spend at least a month on Due Diligence, I can't quite remember how long Dubai were, but it was quite a while, where as Hicks and Gillett had completed with 3-4 days roughly. I think it would have to start within the next 2 weeks; thus allowing enough time for all the paper work, lawyers involved, signatures. Its a lengthy process, I doubt potential new owners will wait much longer before the move is made.  I honestly believe if there is anybody out there then we should here either way by mid-June. And I doubt; if DD is being done, that something or someone wont leak it to the press. And as yet nothing has leaked.

If it has all been done behind closed doors, and is to be announced later; it is possible, however it worries me, if RBS do refinance we will hear about it by the end of this month, and GG and TH will be rubbing there hands together.

Offline kopside

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2443 on: May 6, 2009, 07:09:26 pm »
Kuwaitis are in the UK apparently.. dont know nothing else

Offline Something Else

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2444 on: May 6, 2009, 07:11:16 pm »


If it has all been done behind closed doors, and is to be announced later; it is possible, however it worries me, if RBS do refinance we will hear about it by the end of this month, and GG and TH will be rubbing there hands together.

If they were refinancing and it went through it would e leaked, straight away in order to show other people/ banks, investors etc, hey look we are ok, they back us etc

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2445 on: May 6, 2009, 07:18:19 pm »
If they were refinancing and it went through it would e leaked, straight away in order to show other people/ banks, investors etc, hey look we are ok, they back us etc

Thats a very good point SE , good man (or woman of course)   ;)
We know now how these wasters work and they wouldnt be able to resist leaking it ,
time is running out for them . . .
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Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2446 on: May 6, 2009, 07:19:39 pm »
Kuwaitis are in the UK apparently.. dont know nothing else

What ? the ones who want to buy the club ? or just random Kuwaities in general ?  ;)
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Offline zamagiure

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2447 on: May 6, 2009, 07:26:36 pm »
Kuwaitis are in the UK apparently.. dont know nothing else
An invasion
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Offline Ronnie1932

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2448 on: May 6, 2009, 07:27:42 pm »
What ? the ones who want to buy the club ? or just random Kuwaities in general ?  ;)

Offline lfctitch

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2449 on: May 6, 2009, 07:38:26 pm »
Kuwaitis are in the UK apparently.. dont know nothing else

I saw a Kuwati the other day, very nice fella indeed.

Offline Something Else

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2450 on: May 6, 2009, 07:39:23 pm »
Kuwaitis are in the UK apparently.. dont know nothing else

your a daily mail reader arnt you.

Has one taken your job?

Offline lfctitch

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2451 on: May 6, 2009, 07:39:52 pm »
If they were refinancing and it went through it would e leaked, straight away in order to show other people/ banks, investors etc, hey look we are ok, they back us etc

You make a good point. But I have to ask - Surely RBS have said one way or another by now? And if there are certain things they have to attain to, why aren't GG and TH doing even more? They seem rather quiet, apart from the show at Arsenal.

Offline lfctitch

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2452 on: May 6, 2009, 07:40:37 pm »
your a daily mail reader arnt you.

Has one taken your job?

How posh are you; 'Has One' ;)

Your a Independent reader.

Offline Something Else

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2453 on: May 6, 2009, 07:50:32 pm »
How posh are you; 'Has One' ;)

Your a Independent reader.

yes im the posh kuwati who took his job ;)
You make a good point. But I have to ask - Surely RBS have said one way or another by now? And if there are certain things they have to attain to, why aren't GG and TH doing even more? They seem rather quiet, apart from the show at Arsenal.

They may well have, the way i see it is their is an offer to refinance on the table, but the terms are not agreeable with the americans, too much guarantees and equity required etc. Yanks then playing a bargaining game and RBS out for what they can get, if the yanks can agree to a deal that RBS feel is no risk, then RBS will refinance as its almost free profit

However i think that there is a better chance of a buyout....

Yanks has little equity, guarentees the banks value and would accept
« Last Edit: May 6, 2009, 07:52:17 pm by Something Else »

Offline lfctitch

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2454 on: May 6, 2009, 08:02:33 pm »
yes im the posh kuwati who took his job ;)
They may well have, the way i see it is their is an offer to refinance on the table, but the terms are not agreeable with the americans, too much guarantees and equity required etc. Yanks then playing a bargaining game and RBS out for what they can get, if the yanks can agree to a deal that RBS feel is no risk, then RBS will refinance as its almost free profit

However i think that there is a better chance of a buyout....

Yanks has little equity, guarentees the banks value and would accept


Do you believe any of the so called buyers are really interested? Or is it so far all idle speculation? Do you expect the Kuwati's (if anyone) or somebody completely out of the blue?
Do you think any of the so called buyers have been planted by GG and TH?
How will they play the PR game over the next month?

Offline 4pool

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2455 on: May 6, 2009, 08:09:23 pm »
You need to differentiate between the agreement between them both (their shareholding agreement) and the result of a bankruptcy. This is further complicated by the fact that they could go bankrupt in either or both jurisdictions (UK and US).



Graham

Isn't Kop Holdings Ltd registered in the Cayman Islands or some such and not the UK or the USA?
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline Something Else

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2456 on: May 6, 2009, 08:43:42 pm »
Do you believe any of the so called buyers are really interested? Or is it so far all idle speculation? Do you expect the Kuwati's (if anyone) or somebody completely out of the blue?
Do you think any of the so called buyers have been planted by GG and TH?
How will they play the PR game over the next month?

Baring in mind we have been linked with a fair few "buyers" i would not be suprised if some used it just as a way of exposure, and then at other times the yanks leaked buyers coming in in an attempt to get more interested, trying to wip up some interest.

There are less people interested in buying us than 18 months ago thats for sure, and i would imagine those who are still interested would have differing business plans now compared to then...

Dont know who is about and who is interested, however i would not be suprised if new owners are in place by the middle of June with some signings announced the first or second week of June.

Offline No666

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2457 on: May 6, 2009, 08:47:49 pm »
According to a respected poster on TIA the Al Kharafis are in the UK atm. Assume those are the Kuwaitis Kopside was referring to. (I've got lost amongst the names - are they the rich ones we thought had dropped out, or the poor ones who have a parliamentary impasse to occupy their minds?)

Offline lfctitch

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2458 on: May 6, 2009, 09:17:40 pm »
According to a respected poster on TIA the Al Kharafis are in the UK atm. Assume those are the Kuwaitis Kopside was referring to. (I've got lost amongst the names - are they the rich ones we thought had dropped out, or the poor ones who have a parliamentary impasse to occupy their minds?)

There the rich ones... £9 billion or something.

Offline kopside

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2459 on: May 6, 2009, 10:07:22 pm »
your a daily mail reader arnt you.

Has one taken your job?

SHOWMETHEMONEY off TIA thanx

Offline Something Else

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2460 on: May 6, 2009, 11:02:31 pm »
SHOWMETHEMONEY off TIA thanx

should one be impressed by this information?

Offline electricghost

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2461 on: May 6, 2009, 11:09:17 pm »
Thats a very good point SE , good man (or woman of course)   ;)

Depends who you ask. Fry would probably go with woman  ;D
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Offline RedBoywonder

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2462 on: May 6, 2009, 11:28:26 pm »
should one be impressed by this information?

I suggest one takes it with the usual pinch of salt.
Justice for the 96.

Offline maj

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2463 on: May 6, 2009, 11:49:43 pm »
Kuwaitis are in the UK apparently.. dont know nothing else

No disrespect, but this means sweet f all. id love to know who so called leaked they are in the uk

Offline maj

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2464 on: May 6, 2009, 11:50:38 pm »
should one be impressed by this information?

Didnt showmethemoney say something was gonna happen 2 weeks?

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2465 on: May 6, 2009, 11:52:24 pm »
should one be impressed by this information?

to be fair he's a genuine poster on there ,
not one to post for the sake of it and I think he has
good contacts in the financial world
the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am

Offline Graham Smith

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2466 on: May 7, 2009, 12:01:56 am »
Graham

Isn't Kop Holdings Ltd registered in the Cayman Islands or some such and not the UK or the USA?

Mel, they are but I was dealing with the personal insolvency of either of our owners not their corporate holdings or investments.
Hunt Bromley got Ringo

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Offline manifest

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2467 on: May 7, 2009, 01:11:50 am »
Graham

Isn't Kop Holdings Ltd registered in the Cayman Islands or some such and not the UK or the USA?

ahh yes...the cayman island tax loopholes that obama expressly referred to as needing to be closed cos corporations in america are paying 2.3% tax rate and impoverishing the rest of the nation. The noose on the likes of hicks is finally being tightened.  :wellin

Offline kopside

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2468 on: May 7, 2009, 01:15:48 am »
should one be impressed by this information?

I dont know how one should be impressed, i just passed on the information... I will second that SMTM is a good poster Imo.

Offline Liverbird 2010

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2469 on: May 7, 2009, 02:32:46 am »
Whats happenin kiddos back from my hols, BTW sheikh Mo was in our hotel with his entourage I was scared shitless didnt say a word. Any news?
FOOTBALL IS A LIE! RAFAEL BENITEZ :-)

Offline manifest

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2470 on: May 7, 2009, 03:48:07 am »

the usual rollercoaster lynds. the only thing of substance is Hicks defaulting on a $10 million interest payment on his american sports teams, and gillett trying to sell his socks, knickers and well, anything.....some very bad news on their financial fronts, which definately puts them under more pressure our end. Otherwise, speculation city.....

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2471 on: May 7, 2009, 06:01:22 am »
While it's quiet...i have a question (sorry not got a clue about the world of finance)

Someone said earlier in the thread that if Hicks went bankrupt, that the other tumor would then take over his share of LFC. But wouldn't that be an asset that his creditors would want sold off to recoup some money?

Ta in advance.

What I said was that we dont know what Kop Holding's company rules say about bankruptcy.  It is the actual constitution of the company which is crucial first and foremost.

Some company's have rules which say that shares in the company automatically revert to the company in the event that the shareholder becomes bankrupt.  So if Kop has that rule, and if TH became personally bankrupt in the next couple of weeks, then his shares go back to the company, and GG would therefore own 100% of the issued shares.  If he wanted to sell half (or all), no-one could stop him.

Alternatively, if Kop does NOT have that rule, then TH's shares would go to the insolvency practioner appointed to handle TH's affairs (called "trustee in bankruptcy" in the UK; dont know what the US terminology is).  In that case, the shares could only be sold by the Trustee with GG's agreement.   So if GG wanted to buy them, he could. 

What the Trustee would NOT be obliged to do would be to help Kop find half of the (approx £320m) debt owed to RBS/Wachovia.  So, almost certainly, GG would be happy to agree to TH's shares being transferred to any new investor willing to help clear Kop's debt.  The Trustee would also be happy with that arrangement, since it would stop the personal guarantees being triggered, and thus stop TH's debts increasing.

So, one way or the other, GG would have  control over who he shares ownership with (or else who he sells to 100%). 


But as I said before, I dont think that this scenario is at all likely.  I dont think that TH will become personally bankrupt before July.





Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2472 on: May 7, 2009, 06:11:25 am »
is it more likely the banks (not wanting the hassel of owning a football club) give in to H&G or will they 'repossess ' the club and sell us on?

The banks wouldnt have any hassle of "owning".

If they choose to exercise their security, then they have an administrator appointed who would have the right to sell players or other assets individually, and to sell the club as a going concern.

The administrator can run the club in the sense of paying other debts, if they choose to.  ie if they feel that it is necessary to do so in order to preserve the value of the club as a going concern.

If this happens, LFC will, in any case, be banned from signing new players.  So the administrator wouldnt have the hassle of trying to make new signings even if they wanted to (which they wouldnt).

We'd also have a 9 point ban.


If Kop Holdings does not pay every penny on the exact date that the debt is due, then the banks will have the right to appoint an administrator (with court approval) immediately if they choose to.   The banks might not choose to straight away.  They might give G&H a bit of grace to come up with the funds, &/or allow G&H to enter an arrangement with new owners who'd pay off the debt.  But the banks dont have to allow any grace period if they dont want to.  Almost certainly a grace period would only be allowed if EITHER a large (£50m say) payment was made in July, OR there was absolute proof (ie a letter of intent) that a new buyer would step in within a few weeks.






Offline Gromit

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2473 on: May 7, 2009, 07:03:58 am »
The banks wouldnt have any hassle of "owning".

If they choose to exercise their security, then they have an administrator appointed who would have the right to sell players or other assets individually, and to sell the club as a going concern.

The administrator can run the club in the sense of paying other debts, if they choose to.  ie if they feel that it is necessary to do so in order to preserve the value of the club as a going concern.

If this happens, LFC will, in any case, be banned from signing new players.  So the administrator wouldnt have the hassle of trying to make new signings even if they wanted to (which they wouldnt).

We'd also have a 9 point ban.


If Kop Holdings does not pay every penny on the exact date that the debt is due, then the banks will have the right to appoint an administrator (with court approval) immediately if they choose to.   The banks might not choose to straight away.  They might give G&H a bit of grace to come up with the funds, &/or allow G&H to enter an arrangement with new owners who'd pay off the debt.  But the banks dont have to allow any grace period if they dont want to.  Almost certainly a grace period would only be allowed if EITHER a large (£50m say) payment was made in July, OR there was absolute proof (ie a letter of intent) that a new buyer would step in within a few weeks.

Is this similar to the situation West Ham are facing?

"West Ham United's outgoing owner, Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson, has revealed that his personal liabilities stand at £301m and admitted he has no idea whether he is bankrupt or even if he will be able to keep his home. A group of his creditors, led by the Icelandic bank Straumur, is expected to take control of West Ham shortly after the end of the season, ending Gudmundsson's association with the club."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/07/west-ham-united-ownership-bjorgolfur-gudmundsson

I have been wondering what, if anything, Gillette and Hicks will lose if the banks repossess us.  Personal guarantees have been mentioned before, but does this mean they will actually lose money from their own pocket?  If not, then I guess they can leave this hanging until the very last minutes of the loan deadline.

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2474 on: May 7, 2009, 07:23:55 am »
Is this similar to the situation West Ham are facing?

Not exactly the same.  Not if he is the sole owner of the shares. 

I dont know the details of WHam's situation.  But one issue (injustice?) is this.  If the owner of a club company is an individual  (eg Abramovic  - dont know about the Wham guy) who goes bankrupt, then the club isnt penalised, so long as the club company doesnt go insolvent.

But if the owner of the club company is another company (like the LFC company is owned by Kop), and the owner goes insolvent, then the club company is penalised (points deduction, transfer ban).  TH or GG going personally insolvent is OK though - just so long as Kop doesnt  (and "insolvency" includes having an administrator appointed, even if the administrator eventually satisfies all the creditors).



I have been wondering what, if anything, Gillette and Hicks will lose if the banks repossess us.  Personal guarantees have been mentioned before, but does this mean they will actually lose money from their own pocket?  If not, then I guess they can leave this hanging until the very last minutes of the loan deadline.
If Kop fails to meet its debts, then the personal guarantees may be triggered.  ie TH and GG may have to stump up their own cash.

The problem is that BEFORE that happens (ie before GG and TH actually have to write a cheque), the bank is likely to have an administrator appointed meaning that LFC will face the consequences mentioned above.

The amount that GG & TH will eventually have to pay is the outstanding debt after the bank has sold Kop &/or its assets, plus added on all its legal costs and late fees, etc.  (Up to a limit of about £220m jointly).



Offline Gromit

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2475 on: May 7, 2009, 07:34:10 am »
Thanks JS.  I didn't realise just how much G&H have the club by its balls, and how unlikely it's gonna be to get rid of them while avoiding administration.

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2476 on: May 7, 2009, 08:42:51 am »
Can anyone answer this:

It's being said that the Icelandic bank Straumur and a consortium of other creditors of current owner Gudmundsson are in talks about taking over West Ham through the device of an asset management company, appointed by the Icelandic government. Is this a device that avoids bankruptcy, and if so could RBS/Wachovia use it to take control of LFC and sell it for a decent price without incurring points' deduction etc (which would deflate the value, after all)?

Offline shankspirit

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2477 on: May 7, 2009, 09:14:21 am »
Just a read to refresh what has happend, been said and so. Taken from Mighty Reds:

Superb piece in The Echo
Posted by: Reds (IP Logged)
Date: 06 February, 2008 23:01

Tony Barret has handled all of this very well I think and tonights offering is his best to date. Doesn't even slag them off but certainly gets across how little these two have in common with Liverpool Football Club.

Although, c'mon Tony, Ansari yes, most definitely. The Sheikh? No.



Gillett & Hicks, one year on: from hope to despair
Feb 6 2008 by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

TODAY marks the first anniversary of the takeover of Liverpool FC by George Gillett and Tom Hicks.. TONY BARRETT examines the impact the American duo have had on the club over the past 12 months.

LIVERPOOL have played 36 league games since the takeover, winning 16, drawing 13 and losing seven.

A total of 61 points from those games is put into sharp perspective by the fact that current Premier League leaders Arsenal have garnered 60 points from just 25 games so far this season.

Qualification for this season's Champions League was secured when the Reds finished third in last season's Premier League.

They have a battle on their hands to repeat that this year with Everton, Man City and Aston Villa all involved in a four-way battle for fourth place.

This season has been a disappointment in the Premier League, with the long- awaited title challenge having failed to materialise.

Liverpool made it to last season's Champions League final, knocking out Barcelona, PSV Eindhoven and Chelsea following the arrival of Hicks and Gillett, only to lose to AC Milan in the final.

They are still involved in this season's competition with a last 16 tie against Inter Milan on the horizon.

TRANSFERS

Fernando Torres, Ryan Babel, Martin Skrtel, Lucas Leiva, Yossi Benayoun, Sebastian Leto, Andriy Voronin and Charles Itandje have all been brought in at an estimated cost of £50m.

Momo Sissoko, Djibril Cisse, Craig Bellamy, Luis Garcia, Mark Gonzalez, Jerzy Dudek and Robbie Fowler have all been sold or released with an estimated £31m being brought into the club.

There is also a deal near completion for Javier Mascherano, who would cost £18.6m.

THE STADIUM

One of the first pledges Hicks and Gillett made upon taking over the club was to have a spade go into Stanley Park within 60 days.

A total of 365 days have now passed and Stanley Park remains almost untouched.

Hicks and Gillett have revised the stadium plans they inherited twice during the past 12 months.

Their first effort had to be scaled down because costs threatened to spiral out of control.

The latest design, by Dallas-based HKS, has a 71,000 capacity, is due to be built for the start of the 2011/12 season and will cost around £300m to complete.

FINANCES

When Hicks and Gillett bought Liverpool FC they used loans rather than cash from their own personal fortunes to do so.

They paid £5,000 a share, a total outlay of £174.1m. They also borrowed another £11m to pay banks and advisers for doing the deal and a further £44.8m to absorb the club's debt at that stage. On top of this, another £70m was added to the loan for the stadium project and running costs.

At that stage, even though they had not spent a single cent from their own pockets, Hicks and Gillett told fans they would not "do a Glazer" by loading the club with debt.

Twelve months on and a huge refinancing deal later, such pledges ring incredibly hollow.

Financial restructuring was concluded last month when a £350m loan was taken out with the Royal Bank of Scotland and Wachovia. £105m of that was immediately loaded onto the club's books with the remaining £245m being taken on by Kop Holdings, the holding company set up by Hicks and Gillett when they bought the club last February.

In a recent statement, Hicks' spokesman admitted that the club will have to service the interest payments on both sections of the debt to the tune of around £30m a year.

THE CLUB'S REPUTATION

Alongside finances, the biggest area of concern since takeover.

Three major demonstrations by fans at a club which had previously had none tells its own sorry story.

From being a club which was renowned for keeping problems in-house, Liverpool have become a club where dirty linen is washed in public on an almost daily basis.

From Rafa Benitez's now infamous "I'm concentrating on coaching and training my players" press conference to Hicks' admission to the ECHO that Jurgen Klinsmann had been lined up as a successor to the Spaniard, the Americans’ PR has been a disaster zone.

Add in on-going speculation about the club's ownership and the last 12 months have been among the most difficult in Liverpool's history.

Damage has been done and unless there is a return to the principles of the much fabled "Liverpool Way" it will continue to be done.

RELATIONSHIPS

In simple terms, the relationship between Tom Hicks and George Gillett has all but broken down.

Marry at haste, repent at leisure seems to be the story of their partnership.

A marriage of convenience to see off DIC at the 11th hour has certainly not resulted in a tale of happy ever after.

Rumours of serious divisions between the pair have been circulating for some time and appeared to be confirmed when a statement was released to confirm the conclusion of refinancing, but it carried only Hicks' name. Gillett's was conspicuous by its absence.

Hicks has tried to build bridges with Benitez following his admission that he spoke to Klinsmann about replacing him and recently backed the Spaniard to continue as manager for the length of his current contract, a little over two more years.

Significantly, Gillett kept his counsel.

THE FUTURE

Dubai International Capital retain a very strong interest in buying Liverpool, an interest which did not wane whatsoever despite Hicks and Gillett concluding their refinancing deal.

The investment arm of the Dubai government may have missed out on getting their hands on the club last year, but they haven't gone away and the ECHO understands senior DIC executives have been in dialogue with Hicks and Gillett for several weeks with a view to doing a deal.

They are ready to test the American duo's determination to hold onto the club but only at a price that suits them – in their eyes, paying over the odds is not an option.

Significantly, Sheikh Mohammed al-Maktoum, whom the ECHO can reveal was a boyhood Liverpool fan, has now taken a personal interest in making the deal happen.

Gillett & Hicks: A year in their own words

"We have purchased the club with no debt on the club," George Gillett, Feb 6, 2007.

"We are going to build the finest team for the finest stadium in the Premier League and that is Liverpool," Tom Hicks, Feb 6, 2007.

"The shovel needs to be in the ground in the next 60 days," George Gillett, Feb 6, 2007.

"It's all about the fans and the winning tradition," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.

"I won't be a visible owner. You'll see me in the stand yes, but probably not so much in the directors' box as out in front meeting people and thanking them for their support," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.

"I'm not a person who goes and hides," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.

"Our job is to be custodians of this franchise, not the owners of this franchise," George Gillett, Feb 7, 2007.

"There's no way either of my two teams' fans have the level of intense passion that Liverpool has," Tom Hicks, May 26.

"We want to be regularly competing for the Premier League and the Champions League.

"The fans are smart. The fans can sense that George and I want exactly what they want," Tom Hicks, May 26.

"It is really time for Rafa to quit talking about new players and to coach the players we have," Tom Hicks, Nov 23, 2007.

"It's been a big misunderstanding blown very much out of proportion. George and I are happy to see that it has settled back down," Tom Hicks gives Rafa Benitez his backing, Dec 1, 2007.

"George and I have never been closer. We both were very disappointed and confused as to where that inaccurate information came from," Hicks dismisses rumours of a split, Dec 1, 2007.

"We attempted to negotiate an option as an insurance policy to have him (Klinsmann) become manager if Rafael left for Real Madrid or other clubs that were rumoured in the press," Tom Hicks, January 13, 2008.

"I will still be an owner of Liverpool Football Club in five years," Tom Hicks, Jan 27, 2008.

"Rafa's going to be our manager. He's got a contract here for two more years and hopefully he'll stay for longer.

"As far as I'm concerned Rafa Benitez will be here for at least the length of his contract," Tom Hicks, Jan 27, 2008.

* Tomorrow: Part Two of our look at Liverpool’s custodians

Tom Hicks and George Gillett double act has failed
Feb 7 2008 by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

1 2 next »
THE ink was barely dry on the offer document to buy Liverpool Football Club by Tom Hicks and George Gillett when one Reds legend confided that he believed the American adventure would end in tears.

“It will never work,” he said. “You can only have one person at the top making the big decisions.

“We found out when Gerard Houllier and Roy Evans were joint managers of the team that those kind of partnerships don't work in football.

“You need one person in charge, it’s as simple as that.”

Twelve months on from Hicks and Gillett taking over at Anfield, those words are looking remarkably prescient as the ‘two heads are better than one’ theory is starting to ring incredibly hollow.

Their divisions on the running of the club are now being laid bare, with the most glaring example being the position of Reds boss Rafa Benitez.

After a startling admission by Hicks that they had spoken to Jurgen Klinsmann about the possibility of replacing Benitez, the Spaniard was then told by the Texan that he had his backing at least until the end of his current contract which runs out in June 2010.

Significantly, Gillett has refused to offer similar assurances and the ECHO understands he has no intention of doing so.

But it isn’t just the major issues like the management of the first team where such division has been illustrated. There have also been incidents involving the day to day running of the club which highlight the fact that Hicks and Gillett have not always been thinking as one.

Sources in the city’s financial sector were left aghast when the duo sent separate accountants into the club on consecutive weeks last year.

One told the ECHO: “Obviously, it is common practice for owners to study the books, particularly when the business they own is so far away.

“But it only requires one set of accountants to do the job, there is no question about that.

“At Liverpool there was a two week period when a whole section of the club was brought to a standstill because one week Hicks sent his accountants in and the next Gillett sent his in.

“These were two separate firms of accountants studying the very same books for co-owners and both will have incurred costs in doing so.

“One can only assume that the bill for these costs were picked up by the club itself.”

While Hicks and Gillett have drifted further apart in their running of the club, the fans have been brought closer together as the feeling that the American duo are failing Liverpool grows.

Looking back on the last 12 months, Neil Atkinson, of newly formed fans group ‘Sons of Shankly’, is in no doubt that the Hicks and Gillett experience has not been a good one thus far.

He said: “One year on since we were promised the world, since we were told there would be no Glazer exploits here, since we were told there would be a spade in the ground within 60 days, we’ve been plunged into £350m of debt and there isn’t a spade to be seen.

“George Gillett said they would be judged on what they did, not what they said.

“Well, they’ve done nothing but hurt the club. Tom Hicks has said too much and now Gillett is seemingly mute. It’s entirely unacceptable.”

The supporters were today given the backing of Walton MP Peter Kilfoyle, who called on Hicks and Gillett to sell up before they can do any more damage to the club.

Kilfoyle, whose constituency takes in Anfield, told the ECHO: “What we are seeing at Liverpool at the moment is a recipe for chaos unless they sell up.

“Dubai International Capital appear to be the only ones on the horizon who are putting together a serious bid to buy the club and I would hope that Hicks and Gillett would do the decent thing and cut their losses or, at the very least, sell up for a small profit.

“From what I know of DIC they undoubtedly have the resources to give the fans what they want and, in Sameer Al-Ansari, they have a very capable chief executive who is also a Liverpool fan.

“So the best thing for all concerned would be for the Americans to sell up to DIC. If they’re not careful, Hicks and Gillett could be left with a bigger debt on a depreciating asset because, unlike Manchester United, Liverpool do not have the stadium to service the debt.

“Unless they do sell up then I really do fear for the future of the club.

“According to the figures we have seen following the recent refinancing deal, they have only put aside £60m for the new stadium.

“All I can read into that is that they are looking to raise most of the rest of the money through further loans. It really is a nightmare scenario.

“What always has to be remembered is that these are businessmen and in their eyes Liverpool Football Club is a commodity to be bought and sold at a profit.

“I just hope they recognise what way this is heading and do the right thing and sell up.”

That is clearly the view of the vast majority of Liverpool’s army of fans as well.

Having welcomed the Americans with open arms just a year ago they have since seen enough of them to come to the conclusion that Hicks and Gillett are not the custodians they had hoped they would be.

DIC’s bid to take Liverpool over at the second time of asking is undoubtedly building momentum and, with Sheikh Mohammed al-Maktoum now personally involved in their ambitious attempt to oust Hicks and Gillett, the fans’ wish to see the American duo ousted from their club could yet be granted.

‘Transfers will be restricted by big interest bill’ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

‘Transfers will be restricted by big interest bill’
by Neil Hodgson, industry reporter

LEAN times beckon for Liverpool fans, at least until the club moves to its planned new stadium, a financial expert has warned.

Vinay Bedi, CORRECT of Wisespeak which is part of stockbroker Brewin Dolphin, says the crippling cost of servicing annual interest payments estimated as high as £30m will severely restrict the club’s dealings in the transfer market.

And matters could worsen if the team failed to achieve the lucrative income from Champions League qualification.

Liverpool owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett completed a £350m refinancing deal on loans to buy the club and towards starting its proposed new Anfield in Stanley Park.

Initial reports suggested the club would only pay interest on £105m of the refinancing package.

But the ECHO revealed that the owners have arranged that the bulk of the interest will be met by the club rather than their offshore Kop Holdings investment venture based in the Cayman Islands.

Bedi believes a complex legal structure must have been developed in the first place to make this possible.

He said: "It seems very unusual that they’re able to take on an element of debt within their Kop Holdings business. Is Liverpool FC now a subsidiary of Kop Holdings, because that would then make an element of sense. But if they are not it is quite unusual."

On a positive note he believes that reports of £30m annual interest payments may be exaggerated: "That is unlikely, even with the worst deal in the world because that would produce an interest rate of just over 8.5%. Even in these difficult credit markets they would probably get something better than that.

"I would think it is more like £25m - but there’s a big difference between paying that and something akin to a third of that which Liverpool might have been thinking they would get away with.

"Suddenly, £25m is a huge slice of gate receipts and a large proportion of media rights.

"This is Champions League financing and without Champions League football you start to wonder how the club is going to continue to move forward and rebuild the team and restructure."

The fear of failing to reach the top four Premier League placings that guarantee Champions League football could also pile more pressure on the club.

Bedi said: "Things aren’t working as the ardent supporter would like in terms of challenging for the Premier League and to get there the club is going to have to spend more money to get it right."

He said the club’s owners will now hope to reel in spending and run a tight ship until the club’s proposed move to the new stadium in 2011 and the promise of increased revenues from the bigger 71,000 capacity: "Taking your football hat off, if they can keep the status quo with player dealings over the next few years and service the debt then everything will be rosy in the new stadium.

"But fans don’t want that, they want to be spending £18m on buying players like Javier Mascherano and that’s where Hicks and Gillett have misunderstood what the position will be.

"They didn’t realise there will be tremendous pressure to go out and buy the Mascheranos and this is where it has all suddenly gone a little wrong. It is going to be tough going for the club."

Offline fry

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2478 on: May 7, 2009, 09:24:49 am »
Depends who you ask. Fry would probably go with woman  ;D
I think it would be unfair to pigeonhole a poster into a male or female category, given SE's scientific background i am sure the entity that is SE would agree that all options must be considered.  Sheman is the variable.
Disclaimer: The above post may not be based on facts even if stated as fact.

Offline lfctitch

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Re: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares
« Reply #2479 on: May 7, 2009, 09:31:06 am »
I have a question, or a scenario.

The banks take control, and we're placed under administration. One of the said scenarios is them selling playing staff? If that's the case though; surely players would still have to agree to move to that club? And Agree a contract? How likely is it that?
Within that time the banks would surely get bids for the whole club, and thus sell?