Author Topic: John Henry & Liverpool's Evolution From Moneyball to Big-Spending Approach  (Read 68442 times)

Offline lgvkarlos

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Agreed now get the Annie Road done.
Would be great, probably get sorted after the new training ground.

Offline BarryCrocker

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Agreed now get the Annie Road done.

£100m in CL revenue and prize money might help.
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Offline Alan_X

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Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Online DonkeyWan

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Exactly this. There's been plenty of Red Sox fans have told us how FSG will spend big for the right person. It's (to grossly simplify) about undervalued players, and undervalued is not necessarily the same as cheap.

It's strange that the writer should choose to open with Salah, a data-driven purchase who the manager was persuaded to buy, bought for a fraction of the market price of a player with his productivity.

The whole article reads to me something like a wolverine savagely shredding a strawman.
It lacks context as an article. For one thing by holding onto Suarez Liverpool ended up doubling their return the following year. And selling Coutinho for crazy money offset the big spending spreee he points to as evidence of a changed mentality.

What FSG have done, and done well, is set Liverpool up as sound money generating machine, allowing them to spend bigger and better.

And the most important change for Liverpool under FSG has been the introduction of Klopp, not Salah, he has taken the team to a new level.
Beatings will continue until morale improves...

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Was great seeing that pic of Henry walking along the road because the traffic was at a standstill on the ay to the stadium last night. Then he has to get out of his seat at the stadium to get on the stage because his team won old big ears. It's a much bigger win than Madrids's the year before, because like Manchester City, they are financial cheats (loads of reputable coverage of Local authority funded spending 2016/7), but had been doing it for longer. Winning without cheating is a far greater victory.
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Offline Giono

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I think that FSG should be given some credit. For starters they learned from the past. They installed Mike Gordon to oversee things in England. He is one of their own and has the ability to speak for the group.

In the Rodgers vs Committee fight they sided with the committee and elevated Michael Edwards to Sporting Director. I would figure that in the discussions with Klopp, the quality of some of our players was discussed as were style/targets etc. We lost a big character in Rodgers but we were able to have some continuity when Klopp took over.
Their success with Boston is really impressive. They know how to build winning teams...repeatedly. That bodes well for the future.

Onwards and upwards.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Yeah, FSG deserve credit. Not least for staying in the background. They have made sure we have sound leadership and sound finances and they have expanded Anfield. And here we are with a CL winning side. Proper owners.

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Offline Fernando_Torres_Was_Good

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They've done an excellent job. Very good owners thus far.

Offline Alan_X

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Seeing John Henry and the FSG team on the pitch last night showed a club that has one purpose from top to bottom. A few of us were slaughtered for defending FSG in the early days - there was a thread a few years back sparked off by a Rattle piece (from memory) that dragged out a load of conspiracy and prejudiced nonsense about what FSG were about.

Smug, small-minded people who equate all Americans with corporate greed and that the only motivation for FSG owning a football club was as a Glazer/Kroenke style cash cow or an asset to flip as quick as possible. People who can't tell a hedge fund from a portfolio of sporting assets.

For them FSG wouldn't develop the ground, they wouldn't get a decent manager, they had no ambition to buy decent players... \

They argued that Liverpool should spend a fortune on a new ground despite all the evidence and logic being to develop Anfield and that FSG's decision to extend was down to lack of ambition. The evidence of Arsenal and now Spurs is that building a brand new ground impacts on player spending whereas the Main Stand development added seats and massively increased income while the club gets on with buying the best defender and best goalkeeper in the world.

And fuck me, would we have beaten Barcelona at 'Stanley Park'? or the 'Standard Chartered Arena'? The Kop may not be as big as Spurs' new 'Wall' but it has heart and a mystique that is unique in football. Of course it's the supporters not the concrete and steel that creates the atmosphere but why would you throw that away?

So anyway, here I am, sitting in Madrid airport with Virgil's face five metres high on the big news screens and pictures of the Liverpool end celebrating number 6. And that's on the back of LIverpool's highest ever points total and missing the league by one point from one of the richest teams on the planet.

FSG is owned by people who have made their money and now want to won winning sports teams.

One last point. I don't agree with the title of the thread. 'Moneyball' is misunderstood and isn't simply about 'buy low-sell high' to create income. It's always been about finding value based on analysis. That's exactly what Liverpool are doing as a recent article showed (it's been posted on here somewhere). Andy Robertson and Virgil van Dyck are both 'Moneyball' signings and according to the article, so was Klopp.

Big-spending clubs wouldn't have bought Robertson, and big-spenders would have bought an alternative to Virgil when the deal originally fell through because they wouldn't worry about writing off the fee if it didn't work out. Robertson and Virgil are both bargains, bought because their attributes add value to the team - Robbo as a good defender bought also a creator of goals, Virgil... well for being Virgil and changing the mindset of the defence.

So if any of those bells are lurking I'd love to hear from them and either defend their original comments or to accept that they were wrong. I won't hold my breath.
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Offline SerbianScouser

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Really proud we have done it the right way, the Liverpool way. After years of being in doldrums , we are now officially back where we belong on par with any other club in the World.

So many of our fans wanted us to take shortcuts , get sheikh money and throw it at every single problem that occurs.

Luckily we chose to do it the right way, be smart, patient, get right people in right positions and just watch the club grow dramatically after H&G fiasco. FSG deserve tons of credit, they've shown why they're such fantastic sports owners - winning 3 championships in baseball was not a fluke and neither is this CL now. Not only do they deserve a lot of credit they also deserve big apologies from the big section of our fanbase that went out of their way to disrespect them at every turn.

We couldn't be in better hands than we are right now and I can only see us going from strength to strength from now. Future is bright, future is indeed red.


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Nice read this on FSG and the mistakes the learned from and how healthy the club is today.

Something i learned from that article is the main drive of our growing Commercial revenues was a guy we poached from Fulham in 2011.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/liverpool/liverpool-fc-under-fsg-how-learning-from-fulham-and-man-utd-off-the-pitch-helped-bring-glory-back-to-a4167081.html
"Since its purchase by the sheikh of Abu Dhabi, Manchester City has managed to cheat its way into the top echelon of European football and create a global, immensely profitable football empire, ignoring rules along the way. The club's newfound glory is rooted in lies."

Online richmiller1

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Nice read this on FSG and the mistakes the learned from and how healthy the club is today.

Something i learned from that article is the main drive of our growing Commercial revenues was a guy we poached from Fulham in 2011.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/liverpool/liverpool-fc-under-fsg-how-learning-from-fulham-and-man-utd-off-the-pitch-helped-bring-glory-back-to-a4167081.html

It's notable just how little commercial progress we made off the back of Istanbul and the loss in Athens.

One of the reasons number 6 seems such a big deal is the suspicion that, under FSG, it will be the catalyst for us rejoining the elite for the long term, regardless of on field fluctuations.

Offline Mighty_Red

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It's notable just how little commercial progress we made off the back of Istanbul and the loss in Athens.

One of the reasons number 6 seems such a big deal is the suspicion that, under FSG, it will be the catalyst for us rejoining the elite for the long term, regardless of on field fluctuations.

I reckon the CL win will alone add around £200-250m if not more to our revenue for the next 5 years or so, regardless of what we go on to win. It may sound a lot but £50m extra a season in sponsorship and other commercial opportunities is doable, companies will always be more willing to go higher when they know the potential rewards are greater.

Having the store sell CL merch hours after the win was evidence of our strategic improvements, getting the players to wear the (admittedly horrendously expensive) shirts the next day was a masterstroke.

Hope the rumours about new, improved Annie Road plans are true, though I suppose it is 3-5 years away taking into account the work on the training facilities.

Some clubs were always destined for greatness...

Offline RedForeverTT

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Hopefully with the sustainable success we had, we can use some of the money to refurbish our stadium.

The grand stand looked great but the other parts of the stadium could do with a bit of upgrading.

Offline Peabee

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Hopefully with the sustainable success we had, we can use some of the money to refurbish our stadium.

The grand stand looked great but the other parts of the stadium could do with a bit of upgrading.

Stand by stand would be great and affordable, allowing us to continue investing in the squad rather than having to restrict the budget for a while if we had to fund a new stadium in one go.
We aren't walking through the storm now - we are the storm.

Offline AmanShah21

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I think the annie oad will be extended next and we'll go from there one by one. I think the idea is to find the best solution to get more seats in the stadium first, because the demand is there, and if there is room to go beyond the original figure of 60000 seats, they'd be interested.

Offline Samie

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John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #136 on: July 1, 2019, 02:31:37 pm »
https://www.anfieldhq.com/liverpool-owner-says-reds-are-focused-on-winning-the-premier-league/

Quote
Liverpool owner John W. Henry says the Reds have set their sights on winning the Premier League in the upcoming 2019/20 campaign. Jurgen Klopp’s side lifted the Champions League trophy at the start of June but were beaten to the league crown by Manchester City despite losing just one league match all season.

However, the Reds owner is confident the European Champions will push on for domestic glory in the season that lies ahead.
“To me winning in Europe is bigger than winning in England but I think it’s true the fans want it,” Henry said,

“I know we’re going to be focused on winning the Premier League next year.”

On potential summer transfer activity, the American added: “We need to get healthy. We need AOC (Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain) back, we need a healthy (Adam) Lallana.

“It’s not up to me but I would guess we will see more of Divock (Origi) next year. I think he brings something special, he comes with power and speed and brings in scoring. I feel really good about next year.

“Our guys gave it their all from the first day of the season to the last. It’s a long season, they played up to their capabilities and just gave so much effort.

“It didn’t matter who the opponent was, they out-ran every opponent and I felt they deserved to walk away with a trophy.

“We walked away with the biggest one so I’m very happy.”

Online markedasred

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #137 on: July 1, 2019, 02:36:51 pm »
He's no Mike Ashley is he?.
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Offline sms1986

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #138 on: July 1, 2019, 02:42:07 pm »
Good and encouraging words from Henry, FSG have done a brilliant job and we’ll see plenty of success over the next few seasons and beyond.

Offline redman64

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #139 on: July 1, 2019, 02:52:52 pm »
Good and encouraging words from Henry, FSG have done a brilliant job and we’ll see plenty of success over the next few seasons and beyond.
Yes where are all the FSG haters now? I cant remember his name but I had an Irish 'facebook friend' who was screaming FSG out every 5 minutes. Needless to say he got deleted. They are fantastic owners who have fulfilled every obligation they could have whilst remaining modestly quiet in the background.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #140 on: July 1, 2019, 02:59:12 pm »
Yes where are all the FSG haters now? I cant remember his name but I had an Irish 'facebook friend' who was screaming FSG out every 5 minutes. Needless to say he got deleted. They are fantastic owners who have fulfilled every obligation they could have whilst remaining modestly quiet in the background.

Give him time  :)
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #141 on: July 1, 2019, 03:04:11 pm »
Give him time  :)

You've just put up the bat signal for Al

Offline CraigDS

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #142 on: July 1, 2019, 03:06:25 pm »
Can’t stand them.

Offline Dench57

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #143 on: July 1, 2019, 03:09:46 pm »
Yes where are all the FSG haters now?

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Offline Chakan

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #144 on: July 1, 2019, 03:10:30 pm »
Might as well lock the thread now. Preemptive strike.

Offline rebel23

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #145 on: July 1, 2019, 03:10:36 pm »
Correct me if im wrong Craig but doesn't Henry own 30% of us?

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #146 on: July 1, 2019, 05:49:54 pm »
For me, JWH is right. Europe is the biggest and most prestigious stage. The European Cup is the pinnacle. That said, I seriously hope we bag the league in the coming season. I'm more confident with these owners, this manager and these players than I've been at any time since we last won it. Everyone at this club means business these days. There are no passengers now. Get the Anny Road rebuilt and win the title and I really can't see any grounds for anyone to be critical of these owners anymore.
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Offline bornandbRED

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #147 on: July 1, 2019, 06:08:44 pm »
The Origi and Ox comments are not innocuous and are certainly made with intention.

Offline El Denzel Pepito

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #148 on: July 1, 2019, 06:14:59 pm »
Would remove that link to Anfield HQ mate. They've been all over Twitter recently, called out by VVD and Robertson for posting shite and the owner of the page (Oliver Bond) has been outed to be working for The S*n.

Offline Dave Mc

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #149 on: July 1, 2019, 06:16:35 pm »
Quote
“To me winning in Europe is bigger than winning in England but I think it’s true the fans want it,” Henry said

He's not wrong. To anybody save longtime Liverpool fans, European Cup > Domestic League. Barca have dominated La Liga for the last decade, but Real are considered by far the more successful side because of their dominance in Europe.
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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #150 on: July 1, 2019, 07:18:52 pm »
Correct John  :wave
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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #151 on: July 1, 2019, 08:50:56 pm »
The Origi and Ox comments are not innocuous and are certainly made with intention.

What is the intention?

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #152 on: July 1, 2019, 08:54:22 pm »
We'll make a better fist of it at the World Club Championships as well, thats for sure. The world club champions and the world series champions. Has a kinda nice ring to it I bet, in an Illinois accent.
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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #153 on: July 1, 2019, 09:01:23 pm »
We'll make a better fist of it at the World Club Championships as well, thats for sure. The world club champions and the world series champions. Has a kinda nice ring to it I bet, in an Illinois accent.

So does 'kiss my rusty sheriff's badge'...in a Dublin accent
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Offline thekitkatshuffler

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #154 on: July 1, 2019, 09:09:02 pm »
He's not wrong. To anybody save longtime Liverpool fans, European Cup > Domestic League. Barca have dominated La Liga for the last decade, but Real are considered by far the more successful side because of their dominance in Europe.
He is wrong.  Winning the league is the bread and butter.  Winning the Champions League is great but it's a knock out competition where anything can happen.  The league is the true measure of a team and the true measure of success.

But, to be fair, I'm only a longtime Liverpool fan.
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Offline thekitkatshuffler

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #155 on: July 1, 2019, 09:11:39 pm »
What is the intention?
That we're not going to spend this summer and that John Henry expects us to utilise what we have.

Is what I infer from bornandbRED's comment.
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Offline red vinyl

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #156 on: July 1, 2019, 09:20:09 pm »
He is wrong.  Winning the league is the bread and butter.  Winning the Champions League is great but it's a knock out competition where anything can happen.  The league is the true measure of a team and the true measure of success.

But, to be fair, I'm only a longtime Liverpool fan.

Your right mate.

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #157 on: July 1, 2019, 09:20:55 pm »
So does 'kiss my rusty sheriff's badge'...in a Dublin accent

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Offline Alan_X

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #158 on: July 1, 2019, 09:23:24 pm »
He is wrong.  Winning the league is the bread and butter.  Winning the Champions League is great but it's a knock out competition where anything can happen.  The league is the true measure of a team and the true measure of success.

But, to be fair, I'm only a longtime Liverpool fan.

However, the Reds owner is confident the European Champions will push on for domestic glory in the season that lies ahead.
To me winning in Europe is bigger than winning in England but I think it’s true the fans want it,” Henry said,

I know we’re going to be focused on winning the Premier League next year.”


It's not wrong that he believes the European Cup is bigger - it's his opinion. And he's not wrong that the fans want the league.

Read the story not the headline.

Edit - and Shankly's 'bread and butter' comment surely means what Henry said. Bread and butter is the boring stuff you do year in, year out. Winning the cups is the important stuff. Winning the FA Cup was massive for Shanks and he'd have given his back teeth to win the European Cup. The league is only special to us now because it's been thirty years since we last won it.
« Last Edit: July 1, 2019, 09:29:32 pm by Alan_X »
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

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Re: John W. Henry "Winning in Europe is Bigger"
« Reply #159 on: July 1, 2019, 09:25:23 pm »
He is wrong.  Winning the league is the bread and butter.  Winning the Champions League is great but it's a knock out competition where anything can happen.  The league is the true measure of a team and the true measure of success.

But, to be fair, I'm only a longtime Liverpool fan.

If the league is bread and butter then the CL is a scone with clotted cream and jam. 
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art