Topic: The Anfield Wrap

[Dougle]

It became near impossible to do when the leagues came off BT sport, it was hard enough to do with ease of access to all the highlights and what not, once it left it became near impossible, so I had to give it up sadly.

Cheers, it was a good show.

[slotmachine]

Ruddock deserves stick but lets not pretend he was the only one lacking professionalism. The club was a fucking mess before Houllier brought some much needed discipline and professionalism to the club. A lot of the young home grown players from that spice boys era avoid a lot of criticism from our fans like James, Fowler, Macca, McAteer and Redknapp etc. They didnt have the required focus that was needed at that top level and loved the other things that came with the fame of being a top flight footballer. Roy Evans didnt have that steel or authority to reign them in and was seen by the players as a favourite uncle type it was left to the likes of Barnes, Rush and Mark Wright to try and keep the young ones in line but like people have said the mid 90's lads mag culture it was fashionable to be seen to be 'mad for it'.

I truly believe a young Carra wouldnt have made it without Houllier's direction and discipline. He was on the wrong path and Gerrard had some similar problems when he was coming through. Whiskey nose had a similar effect as Houllier with the superb United youth at the time who were so driven and mature despite being the same age group as the more talented young Liverpool players.

[red_Mark1980]

Ruddock deserves stick but lets not pretend he was the only one lacking professionalism. The club was a fucking mess before Houllier brought some much needed discipline and professionalism to the club. A lot of the young home grown players from that spice boys era avoid a lot of criticism from our fans like James, Fowler, Macca, McAteer and Redknapp etc. They didnt have the required focus that was needed at that top level and loved the other things that came with the fame of being a top flight footballer. Roy Evans didnt have that steel or authority to reign them in and was seen by the players as a favourite uncle type it was left to the likes of Barnes, Rush and Mark Wright to try and keep the young ones in line but like people have said the mid 90's lads mag culture it was fashionable to be seen to be 'mad for it'.

I truly believe a young Carra wouldnt have made it without Houllier's direction and discipline. He was on the wrong path and Gerrard had some similar problems when he was coming through. Whiskey nose had a similar effect as Houllier with the superb United youth at the time who were so driven and mature despite being the same age group as the more talented young Liverpool players.

You do realise that Souness signed Ruddock don't you?

[royhendo]

Dan Austin hosting a Blood Red podcast for the Liverpool Echo.

Has Dan moved onto pastures new? Does he believe in life after love?

Ah: in the grand tradition of LMGTFY, his LinkedIn profile says he's freelance and a content editor for 'Reach PLC' (who seemingly own the Echo), so hopefully that means he's still a Wrapper. https://uk.linkedin.com/in/austin-daniel

A-ha - at the end of the podcast he said Dan Morgan was their staff writer back at base... has the Echo outsourced their content production to the Wrap? Kris was back on the other day on AFQ which was nice... are you all on the same team now?

[Stussy]

Ruddock deserves stick but lets not pretend he was the only one lacking professionalism. The club was a fucking mess before Houllier brought some much needed discipline and professionalism to the club. A lot of the young home grown players from that spice boys era avoid a lot of criticism from our fans like James, Fowler, Macca, McAteer and Redknapp etc. They didnt have the required focus that was needed at that top level and loved the other things that came with the fame of being a top flight footballer. Roy Evans didnt have that steel or authority to reign them in and was seen by the players as a favourite uncle type it was left to the likes of Barnes, Rush and Mark Wright to try and keep the young ones in line but like people have said the mid 90's lads mag culture it was fashionable to be seen to be 'mad for it'.

I truly believe a young Carra wouldnt have made it without Houllier's direction and discipline. He was on the wrong path and Gerrard had some similar problems when he was coming through. Whiskey nose had a similar effect as Houllier with the superb United youth at the time who were so driven and mature despite being the same age group as the more talented young Liverpool players.

Roy was too nice. They took liberties. And one thing Klopp gets right is the background research on the personality & attitude of potential signings. He realises that when you bring someone in you bring someone who can integrate, disrupt or enhance the culture of the club. Bringing Ruddock in was ultimately poor for the culture of the club.

[Slick_Beef]

Ruddock deserves stick but lets not pretend he was the only one lacking professionalism. The club was a fucking mess before Houllier brought some much needed discipline and professionalism to the club. A lot of the young home grown players from that spice boys era avoid a lot of criticism from our fans like James, Fowler, Macca, McAteer and Redknapp etc. They didnt have the required focus that was needed at that top level and loved the other things that came with the fame of being a top flight footballer. Roy Evans didnt have that steel or authority to reign them in and was seen by the players as a favourite uncle type it was left to the likes of Barnes, Rush and Mark Wright to try and keep the young ones in line but like people have said the mid 90's lads mag culture it was fashionable to be seen to be 'mad for it'.

I truly believe a young Carra wouldnt have made it without Houllier's direction and discipline. He was on the wrong path and Gerrard had some similar problems when he was coming through. Whiskey nose had a similar effect as Houllier with the superb United youth at the time who were so driven and mature despite being the same age group as the more talented young Liverpool players.

If I remember correctly they did mention other names too, Dicks and Ince for example, but it was an "R" podcast after all  . There's no doubt that Fowler/Macca/Redknapp were no angles but I feel like at their age you're looking for the older players and manager to set the tone, which clearly failed back then.

Absolutely agree with what you said about Houllier. That's a huge sliding doors moment for Gerrard and Carra, and the club as a whole. I remember in one of Warnock's interviews on TAW he was talking about how Gerrard told him to knock the ale on the head.. just the kind of example you want from a senior player.

[Fromola]

Ruddock deserves stick but lets not pretend he was the only one lacking professionalism. The club was a fucking mess before Houllier brought some much needed discipline and professionalism to the club. A lot of the young home grown players from that spice boys era avoid a lot of criticism from our fans like James, Fowler, Macca, McAteer and Redknapp etc. They didnt have the required focus that was needed at that top level and loved the other things that came with the fame of being a top flight footballer. Roy Evans didnt have that steel or authority to reign them in and was seen by the players as a favourite uncle type it was left to the likes of Barnes, Rush and Mark Wright to try and keep the young ones in line but like people have said the mid 90's lads mag culture it was fashionable to be seen to be 'mad for it'.

I truly believe a young Carra wouldnt have made it without Houllier's direction and discipline. He was on the wrong path and Gerrard had some similar problems when he was coming through. Whiskey nose had a similar effect as Houllier with the superb United youth at the time who were so driven and mature despite being the same age group as the more talented young Liverpool players.

The 90s post 1990 were just a shit time to be a Liverpool fan, especially with United's success.

Not much to fondly remember. Fairly low key FA Cup and League Cup win against lower division sides in 1992 and 1995 was all there was trophy wise. It's only really Robbie Fowler who is really revered from a whole decade. Rush and Barnes remembered for the glory years (same with the late 90s players remembered for the Houllier/Rafa years than as 90s players. Owen and Macca not remembered as fondly for the way they left. Other players who could have been more revered but were never fit (Rob Jones, Redknapp).

[Jookie]

The 90s post 1990 were just a shit time to be a Liverpool fan, especially with United's success.

Not much to fondly remember. Fairly low key FA Cup and League Cup win against lower division sides in 1992 and 1995 was all there was trophy wise. It's only really Robbie Fowler who is really revered from a whole decade. Rush and Barnes remembered for the glory years (same with the late 90s players remembered for the Houllier/Rafa years than as 90s players. Owen and Macca not remembered as fondly for the way they left. Other players who could have been more revered but were never fit (Rob Jones, Redknapp).

There's a lot to be said for how Graeme Souness quickened our demise in the early 90's. He binned some good experienced players that had a year or 2 left in them and bought really poor quality replacements. There was also John Barnes Achilles injury that robbed us of the best player in the league. That combination hastened a dropping off of our quality that had been coming for a few years.

With sensible decisions we could have challenged for the title for the next few seasons. Maybe 1991 through to 1993. There would have needed a re-build job at some point though. I think Souness realised that. He got his signings wrong but one thing he got right was blooding youngsters. McManaman, Fowler, Redknapp and Rob Jones all became established 1st team players under Souness.

What that meant was that Roy Evans had the best of these young players during his time as Liverpool manager. During his latter years, Evans also had Michael Owen to call upon. He also had the ability in the transfer market to break the British transfer record. I will buy the argument that Roy Evans steadied the ship and got us back on an upward trajectory. I also buy the argument that he was maybe denied that final piece of the jigsaw in the transfer market (Teddy Sheringham, Sol Campbell). However, with the resource he had available to him, both in terms of transfer kitty and young players at his disposal, a single League Cup was a very poor trophy return over a 4.5 year period.

I don't think Roy Evans was a really poor manager but he allowed a group of very talented players to under achieve. From the outside looking in, it also looked like a group of players took the mick out of the club under his watch. He may not have his hands as dirty as Graeme Souness when it comes to our on the pitch performances in the 1990's but for me he's not a million miles behind.

[Fromola]

What that meant was that Roy Evans had the best of these young players during his time as Liverpool manager. During his latter years, Evans also had Michael Owen to call upon. He also had the ability in the transfer market to break the British transfer record. I will buy the argument that Roy Evans steadied the ship and got us back on an upward trajectory. I also buy the argument that he was maybe denied that final piece of the jigsaw in the transfer market (Teddy Sheringham, Sol Campbell). However, with the resource he had available to him, both in terms of transfer kitty and young players at his disposal, a single League Cup was a very poor trophy return over a 4.5 year period.

I don't think Roy Evans was a really poor manager but he allowed a group of very talented players to under achieve. From the outside looking in, it also looked like a group of players took the mick out of the club under his watch. He may not have his hands as dirty as Graeme Souness when it comes to our on the pitch performances in the 1990's but for me he's not a million miles behind.

The Evans years would be remembered a lot more fondly had we a) won the 96 cup final or b) not completely bottled the eminently winnable 96/97 title race and maybe gone onto win the cup winners cup. Instead both became the epitath of the Evans era, the white suits and David James losing the plot.

That was why it was so important to get that big trophy over the line last season. Without that this decade would have gone down as our worst in terms of success since the 50s and added to a few trophyless seasons preceeding it. Although it'll still go down as a decade of frustration, it'll be remembered as one that started with Hodgson and Hicks and Gillett and ended with the sheer joy of Madrid and number 6 and a 97 point league season.

[Jookie]

The Evans years would be remembered a lot more fondly had we a) won the 96 cup final or b) not completely bottled the eminently winnable 96/97 title race and maybe gone onto win the cup winners cup. Instead both became the epitath of the Evans era, the white suits and David James losing the plot.

End of the 1996/97 season was really poor. W4 D4 L4 in our last 12 league games. 16 points from the last 12 games really cost us. We had 52 points from the 1st 26 games as well. If we'd kept up the same pace through the last 12 games then it may have been enough to win the league.

The Coventry game sticks out but before that we'd dropped points in other winnable games - Blackburn at home, Forest away (who ended up the season bottom with 34 points). I think the Coventry game was when it really came apart since we only won 3 games all season from that point onwards. There was bad defeats in there too. Battered at home by United. Pulled to bits by PSG away. Beaten by Wimbledon. The only really bright spark during that entire run was the emergence of Michael Owen.

The next season was poor as well, though we managed to get 3rd with 65 points! Getting beat by Strasbourg 3-0 away in the UEFA Cup that season is up there with one of our worst performances ever. Only the home game against Blackpool under Hodgson sticks out as worse.

I feel like I'm hammering Roy Evans here. He was a good servant to the club. He was a good man who helped steady the ship in the mid-90's. He wasn't a very good manager though. In my lifetime of watching Liverpool I would say only Hodgson and Souness were worse Liverpool managers.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Evans was a great coach who is the epitome of the "Coach who shouldn't be a manager". His ideas on the game were very progressive at the time, and he knew how to get players to play technical football.

Unfortunately, he didn't know how to man-manage the new generation of players at the time, the new kids who were all earning more money than the manager was, and had a more obvious youth culture ("Lad-ism") to exist in than before. I'm not sure he knew how to deal with it.

Great coach though. Love Roy Evans. But we needed a Houllier at the end of it, and the proof of that was in the success of that period.

[Yiannis]

The end of 96/97 was the time I started following Liverpool closely. IIRC going into the last two games we needed just a win (or two points if Arsenal's and Newcastle's results went our way) to finally get into the CL after so many years. We got one! Against Wimbledon and Sheffield Wednesday*.

Evans got us playing some exciting football but we had such a soft underbelly. What followed got worse and worse and yeah, Houllier was much needed. On and off the pitch.


*Look at that shit. Look at the chances we wasted. Look at what happened with their GKs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etz3SInWdY4

And then read the last 3 sentences from here

[Fitzy.]

The end of 96/97 was the time I started following Liverpool closely. IIRC going into the last two games we needed just a win (or two points if Arsenal's and Newcastle's results went our way) to finally get into the CL after so many years. We got one! Against Wimbledon and Sheffield Wednesday*.

Evans got us playing some exciting football but we had such a soft underbelly. What followed got worse and worse and yeah, Houllier was much needed. On and off the pitch.


*Look at that shit. Look at the chances we wasted. Look at what happened with their GKs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etz3SInWdY4

And then read the last 3 sentences from here

I remember listening intently to 5live for the result of this game. Infuriating. A microcosm of 90s Liverpool.

Was interesting to listen to TAW discuss the 90s recently but I suspect the tone was affected a bit by the fact Ste Evans was a contributor. I’m not one for going in hard on Roy Evans; he represents a tough area of discussion at the best of times but made even harder when you have a close family relative in room.

[Yiannis]

I remember listening intently to 5live for the result of this game. Infuriating. A microcosm of 90s Liverpool.

Was interesting to listen to TAW discuss the 90s recently but I suspect the tone was affected a bit by the fact Ste Evans was a contributor. I’m not one for going in hard on Roy Evans; he represents a tough area of discussion at the best of times but made even harder when you have a close family relative in room.

I relied on listening the results on the radio as well, with no Internet or subscription to the channel that had the rights over here. They were literally playing with an outfield player as a GK and he managed to make a great save. How Liverpool in the 90's was that indeed. It was tough for me comprehending how we blew it cause alright, I had accepted not winning the league by that time but the the CL participation would have been huge. Especially when only two teams were getting the chance to play at the time iirc.

I hated it how things turned sour with Evans (same thing happened with the last couple of seasons with Houllier) at the end cause you could see we were going nowhere and I wanted him gone and honestly that situation with the joint managers left him with no choice than to resign. Still a monumentally stupid decision to do it in the first place.

[courty61]

96/97 will be for me the biggest bottle job this club has done since 1990. Idiots will point to 09 14 or 19, but that team nearly had it

Funny sliding doors moment though - what happens if that team did win the league?

[Fitzy.]

96/97 will be for me the biggest bottle job this club has done since 1990. Idiots will point to 09 14 or 19, but that team nearly had it

Funny sliding doors moment though - what happens if that team did win the league?

yeah, similar to had we won the league in 13/14...would Klopp be here or would Rodgers have been afforded more time?

[Fromola]

96/97 will be for me the biggest bottle job this club has done since 1990. Idiots will point to 09 14 or 19, but that team nearly had it

Funny sliding doors moment though - what happens if that team did win the league?

We wouldn't have needed to sign Paul Ince as the final piece in the jigsaw.

I think what killed us in 97/98 though was Robbie getting a bad injury in pre-season. He was the best striker in the league at the time and guaranteed 30 goals a year.

I don't think a title win would have led to a dynasty, i think it would have fizzled out, but it would have a) seen that team more highly thought of now and the whole Evans era and b) got the title drought monkey off our back which still haunts us over 20 years later.

The thing in 96/97 was how low the bar was to win the league. I think United won it with under 80 points and were nothing special that season.

[Mcbain]

The latest wrap was a reminder why i don't listen to redmen.tv

[DangerScouse]

Boiling piss on Twitter today. Great to see.

Enjoyed the Jurgen interview. Well done lads.

[TepidT2O]

Boiling piss on Twitter today. Great to see.

Enjoyed the Jurgen interview. Well done lads.

It’s how they first extracted the element phosphorus.

To much information?

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Boiling piss on Twitter today. Great to see.

To be honest though it's just daft to post something like that hours after whining about an aggressive trip. Each to their own but TAW's social media isn't for me.

[Fromola]

To be honest though it's just daft to post something like that hours after whining about an aggressive trip. Each to their own but TAW's social media isn't for me.

TAW all seem good reds but this is exactly the kind of thing that gives Liverpool fans a bad name and is deemed to justify the level of hatred we get subjected to. The fanbase gets slaughtered all day on Twitter (Kuyt was even top trend on Twitter this afternoon because of this post, you click on it and its Liverpool fans getting slaughtered).

A bit of a faux pas, fair enough, but just take the post down and put a quick apology up. Liverpool fans collectively get tarred with the same brush because someone has either failed to engage their brain, or deliberately wanted to cause mischief. Blues are absolutely spitting feathers.

Our fanbase are subjected to a higher degree of scrutiny than any other, so don't give them the ammunition.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

So what happened on twitter ?

[JackWard33]

To be honest though it's just daft to post something like that hours after whining about an aggressive trip. Each to their own but TAW's social media isn't for me.

Yeah it’s a really stupid post and massively hypocritical.
It’s all gone a bit ‘lads lads lads’ over there recently unfortunately

[Fromola]

Yeah it’s a really stupid post and massively hypocritical.
It’s all gone a bit ‘lads lads lads’ over there recently unfortunately

Open season on Liverpool fans again all afternoon on social media as a result. It's a high profile account.

[Fitzy.]

Yeah it’s a really stupid post and massively hypocritical.
It’s all gone a bit ‘lads lads lads’ over there recently unfortunately

Not sure that’s true. It can have its moments. The Madrid stuff was heavily alcohol-laden but I think it’s massively calmed down in recent weeks. The Klopp interview, the history Gutter and today’s free show aren’t particularly boisterous. Most of their stuff isn’t like that.

[Hightown Phil]

TAW all seem good reds but this is exactly the kind of thing that gives Liverpool fans a bad name and is deemed to justify the level of hatred we get subjected to. The fanbase gets slaughtered all day on Twitter (Kuyt was even top trend on Twitter this afternoon because of this post, you click on it and its Liverpool fans getting slaughtered).

A bit of a faux pas, fair enough, but just take the post down and put a quick apology up. Liverpool fans collectively get tarred with the same brush because someone has either failed to engage their brain, or deliberately wanted to cause mischief. Blues are absolutely spitting feathers.

Our fanbase are subjected to a higher degree of scrutiny than any other, so don't give them the ammunition.

Oh no, not the Blues!

[Fitzy.]

Open season on Liverpool fans again all afternoon on social media as a result. It's a high profile account.

Come off Twitter. It’s a cartoonish version of fandom, it exaggerates outrage and exercises faux disgust. It’s nonsense. A tiny portion of football fans will have seen the post.

[Hij]

Oh no, not the Blues!

[DangerScouse]

Are people really bothered by what some little obsessed virgins think on Twitter?

Kuyt made no contact btw. It was a fiercely contested derby and it was heat of the moment. There's a big difference.

[TepidT2O]

Are people really bothered by what some little obsessed virgins think on Twitter?

Kuyt made no contact btw. It was a fiercely contested derby and it was heat of the moment. There's a big difference.

Is that what everyone is bitching about??



Fucking hell.  People must have nothing else to do with their time

[Crosby Nick]

Are people really bothered by what some little obsessed virgins think on Twitter?

Kuyt made no contact btw. It was a fiercely contested derby and it was heat of the moment. There's a big difference.

No malice in Dirky’s challenge, as mental as it was. Different to the one last night but as said Twitter is impossible at times, hardly worth worrying about dickheads from other clubs banging on about victims etc.

[Fitzy.]

Is that what everyone is bitching about??



Fucking hell.  People must have nothing else to do with their time

School holidays...

[deFacto please, you bastards]

If anyone is comparing a tackle in a bloody derby to a downright kicking in a pre-season friendly, then they need their heads checked. But it's Everton, houlier than Redshite, they have nothing else to do.

[FlashGordon]

Haha jesus fucking christ, Liverpool fans have been getting it all afternoon on Twitter. However will they get over it.

[Crosby Nick]

If anyone is comparing a tackle in a bloody derby to a downright kicking in a pre-season friendly, then they need their heads checked. But it's Everton, houlier than Redshite, they have nothing else to do.

Gerard?

[Hij]

Gerard?

Just spotted that.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

No malice in Dirky’s challenge, as mental as it was. Different to the one last night but as said Twitter is impossible at times, hardly worth worrying about dickheads from other clubs banging on about victims etc.

Kuyt's was a shocker of a challenge. We all loved it because of who it was against but there's countless more significant contributions Dirk Kuyt made to this football club. If it was Djimi Traore I could kinda understand it.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Come off Twitter. It’s a cartoonish version of fandom, it exaggerates outrage and exercises faux disgust. It’s nonsense. A tiny portion of football fans will have seen the post.

I separate the podcast and the social media in my own mind to be honest. The pods are mostly great. The social media is run like a 12 year old trolling people on a forum. Like I said, each to their own, I'm sure it generates plenty of traffic for them but I don't think it's a good reflection of the engaging and at times even intellectual discussions on the pods.

[Fromola]

Come off Twitter. It’s a cartoonish version of fandom, it exaggerates outrage and exercises faux disgust. It’s nonsense. A tiny portion of football fans will have seen the post.

Yeah its a ccesspit.

Just don't give them all ammunition for the sake of it.