Author Topic: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool  (Read 9243 times)

Offline Hinesy

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RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« on: January 25, 2014, 04:05:25 pm »
Did the score flatter? Or does it not matter?
Should we have scored more? Or be grateful t'weren't a draw?
Enough of my guff
We beat Bournmouth.
Yep.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2014, 04:30:26 pm »
Liverpool had four opponents here (five if you include Boscombe). A decent Bournemouth side, a lumpy pitch, a heavy wind and their own pathetic defence.

The defence is not a defence. Not really. It's a collection of players who are on the edge of panic and with no communion between them. None of them really wants the ball and all are jittery when the opposition attacks. Fortunately today we had a goalie who doesn't mind coming out and punching the ball. Jones was decent and not tied to his line like Mignolet. But let's not kid ourselves. Without Agger and Sakho, without Enrique and Johnson, and - yes - without Wisdom, Robinson and even McLaughlin, we are left with a back 4 that is as weak as any in the Premier League. If Bournemouth's forward line had been able to shoot or direct their headers that might have been a much tougher game.

Only slightly less scary were the two players patrolling midfield in front of the defence. Henderson, whatever he else is, is not a central midfield player. His passing is weak, he can't turn and he never moves after giving a pass. His diabolical return pass to Brad Jones in the first half was a perfect summation of his abiding weakness when given a ball that demands a bit of finesse. He simply doesn't want to deal with it. He'd rather pass the problem along, even if it means a stupid lumped pass back to put our goalie under pressure. And did he make a tackle today? I didn't see one. He simply wasn't close enough to his opponents to get one in.

Stevie pulled his socks up in the second half and became the defence. But with the ball at his feet he was almost as static as Hendo. We'll get fucked over by Everton (and a number of other sides) if these two continue to be paired in the midfield.

Oddly it was Moses who looked the part, at least in the first half. Twice in quick succession he skinned the Bournemouth right back. On neither occasion was any other Liverpool player prepared to gamble on Moses actually beating his man so both dribbles dribbled away into nothing. Better to go it alone. That's what he did for the first goal, with a purple bit of control from Suarez's cross-field pass and a decent dig into the bottom left-corner of the net.

Would Bournemouth now deflate? The answer was no. Showing much more technique and fluency in the middle of the pitch and the flanks they took the game to Liverpool. This was not the medieval siege machine that Oldham presented last season. This was a reasonably slick footballing unit. Had they showed more composure in front of goal they could have gone in level.

Mind you we had the easiest chance of all to increase the lead after a gorgeous piece of skill from Suarez set up Henderson. Hendo, for the tenth time this season, quickly rehearsed everything he'd been told about shooting (lean back, side foot only, don't get the knee over the ball, close your eyes) and sent the ball beautifully over the cross bar.

The second half was better, even if Toure continued to do his impression of a man playing football after a 9-course dinner, and even if we waited - in vain - for Cissokho to do something half-competent. (Poor lad. The Premier League's too good for him. So, now, is the Championship). Skrtel pulled off a wonderful defensive header only to see the amazed head needing stitches and staples. He actually got better after that and bgean to look calm on the ball. Maybe the doc did a quick brain transplant too?

Sturridge also decided to stop posing and play in the second half. What a player is he. No wonder Hodgson was laughing in the stands. He has at least one player who won't disgrace himself in Brazil.

Talking of Brazil, the obvious Man of the Match was Coutinho. OK, I know it's only Bournemouth, but here's a player who is a negative image of Henderson and Gerrad (on today's performance at least). Constantly moving, constantly turning on the ball and provoking the opposition midfield and defence, and constantly getting between the lines. He's going to be a great player for the Reds. He's certainly an exciting one to watch.

Please don't drop him for the Derby.

We finished well. The last 20 minutes could have been awkward but we dominated play and rested on the ball for long periods, which was canny.

So through to the next round. However I think we're going to pay in the league unless we get someone in to replace Lucas Leiva and help Joe Allen (when he comes back). 



 
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Offline Hinesy

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2014, 03:10:22 pm »
Round table (with a proper start from Yorky, never mind my doggerel) is up.
Yep.

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2014, 05:22:01 pm »
Did the score flatter? Or does it not matter?
Should we have scored more? Or be grateful t'weren't a draw?
Enough of my guff
We beat Bournmouth.
To be fair, we wern't great, and we did just enough.

We did the bare minimum to win the tie, and get us in the hat for the next round, whilst conserving our energies for Tuesday night.

You can only beat who they put in front of you, and all that.

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2014, 05:42:20 pm »
That's a good writeup from Yorky.

The headlines for me were:

Moses stood up and took responsibility.  That's what you want from someone who's been dropped for hiding.
Great to see Kelly get through 70 odd minutes unscathed, and Flanagan to make his return.  Boy have we missed him.
Sturridge and Suarez are our only hopes this season.

The negatives:

That back 5 (back four and DM) will be destroyed by any team with movement and quality.  Dare I say, even Everton.  Any runs from either side of Stevie are slicing us open.
Playing Coutinho in a midfield 3 will expose us further.
Stevie's long pass radar needs recalibrating.  It's not quite Alonsoesque is it?

I'll try to add something more substantial later.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2014, 05:47:28 pm »
That's a good writeup from Yorky.

The headlines for me were:

Moses stood up and took responsibility.  That's what you want from someone who's been dropped for hiding.
Great to see Kelly get through 70 odd minutes unscathed, and Flanagan to make his return.  Boy have we missed him.
Sturridge and Suarez are our only hopes this season.

The negatives:

That back 5 (back four and DM) will be destroyed by any team with movement and quality.  Dare I say, even Everton.  Any runs from either side of Stevie are slicing us open.
Playing Coutinho in a midfield 3 will expose us further.
Stevie's long pass radar needs recalibrating.  It's not quite Alonsoesque is it?

I'll try to add something more substantial later.

Just a quickie there Prof, before you add more.

You don't think without Coutinho we'll struggle to keep the ball and ultimately invite even more pressure on to our defence?
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2014, 05:54:11 pm »
Professional job done with one eye on the derby.  I'll take it..
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2014, 05:58:44 pm »
Just a quickie there Prof, before you add more.

You don't think without Coutinho we'll struggle to keep the ball and ultimately invite even more pressure on to our defence?
I think he needs to be in a front 3 rather than a midfield 3.  If we had 2 top class players in there, it might be different, but where we are at the moment, he adds to our vulnerability.

I'd go with Coutinho behind SaS if the three play.  With wingbacks, he could be the third midfielder, but a back four means we need three behind him.

I'd have Sterling or Coutinho, unless sterling played RWB.  We don't have three fit CBs atm so it's not an option.


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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2014, 05:58:57 pm »


You don't think without Coutinho we'll struggle to keep the ball and ultimately invite even more pressure on to our defence?
Would Coutinho help us that much in that area though? His ball retention numbers aren't great and even though he will always make himself available, it is somewhat negated by that.
Suarez and Sturridge don't have great ball retention numbers either but they are likely shoe ins for a goal. Where as Coutinho, in the final 3rd, hasn't quite been at his best.

I think we were professional yesterday..not dominant in any area but adequate enough when we needed to be to advance.
At the moment, like everyone knows, it's going to be tough for us to be completely solid defensively with all the injuries we have in that area of the team. So yesterday, there were some obvious moments of, maybe confusion is the word for it. Especially down the right side where Kelly was isolated at times in the first half. But less so in the 2nd.

Those type of games are strange these days. A lot of casual folks seem to feel that we will comfortably win them but they have usually been very tight affairs...looking back last year at Manfield or Oldham. This year again with Oldham and Bournemouth...even Exeter a few years back I think.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 06:04:09 pm by b_joseph »

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2014, 07:07:02 pm »
Liverpool had four opponents here (five if you include Boscombe). A decent Bournemouth side, a lumpy pitch, a heavy wind and their own pathetic defence.

Can't comment on Yorky's accuracy because I didn't see the game, but the most enjoyable post I've read in ages and hits the nail squarely on the head in quite a few places - the state of our defence and Hendo's limitations for two.
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2014, 07:17:46 pm »
You only have to look at our cup games away in recent years and compare them to yesterdays performance in order to come to the conclusion that this result didn't flatter us at all. Quite the opposite as it was exactly what we haven't seen for years... winning dirty, making the difference in quality count, not being forced to put in too much effort as our overall tactical approach in combination with our current squad too much for a team like Bournemouth.

To me, it was a great test game for the players left, those 13 players who will have to do the job in the next couple of games and in contrast to others I'd rather take the positives as there were enough of them for assuming that we definitely won't be falling apart in the next couple of weeks.

I am honestly running out of words to describe the difference in the display of Gerrard between yesterday and Villa as it was that big, you might be thinking of a 20 year old losing it all in one game and getting back to "remember" the job to be done in the next one. To me, he did a great job, he did lead by example and, just as the likes of Cisskoho or Toure, concentrated on doing the job required for their particular position first and foremost. And to me,  there isn't anything else to expect and demand from our first eleven at the moment as there are too many players out there who wouldn't be part of a first eleven at the different point in time, Toure, Cissokho, Kelly/Flanagan... and others being played out of position, Gerrard, Henderson.

But we don't have any other choice anyway, Coutinho, of course, has to play, he is just too good for being benched and crucial part of our game plan at the moment. It's on him, Sturridge and Suarez, maybe Sterling/Moses to give the opposite something to think about and on a normal day, they will be too much for no matter who we'll play. If the rest of the team is willing to do their job, especially in terms of positioning and defending we have a good chance to gain 7 points from the next three games.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 07:24:32 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2014, 07:36:08 pm »
Brad Jones in..........The Bourne-mouthultimatum.

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2014, 07:41:41 pm »
Can't comment on Yorky's accuracy because I didn't see the game, but the most enjoyable post I've read in ages and hits the nail squarely on the head in quite a few places - the state of our defence and Hendo's limitations for two.

You're back Howes! Much missed. Hope we'll be seeing more of you.

The future is Henderson....Or it's Coutinho. 

I really don't think it can be both. Both are at their most effective operating in advanced positions in the centre of the pitch.  Henderson likes the ball over the top. Coutinho likes the ball at his feet. Coutinho is marginalised on the wing. Henderson is a liability in front of our defence.

So they ought to be competing for one positon. And both players interpret that position very differently.

I reckon Brendan has to decide whether we are a team that sits deep and hits oppponents on the break or a side that dominates the ball and pins the opposition back. Do we need a running machine or someone who can pick locks?

For what it's worth I think Rafa would have loved Henderson. I'm struggling to understand why Brendan does.
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Offline Mal

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2014, 07:44:37 pm »
We never really got out of second gear & I thought we did a relatively professional job. Not perfect, but I never really felt like they'd put us under enough pressure to force a fatal mistake. Or that if they did, we could & would just move up a gear or two.

The biggest plus point after the win, though the 5th round draw has somewhat negated the result, was no additional injuries. Crucial for Tuesday.

Moses was better than expected & the defence was as bad as expected. I agree with Yorky about the improvement to Skrtel's game after the knock on the head. We desperately need competent full backs and a CM (DM if you'd prefer) with the ability to get away with a bit of niggle... Oh, ok, you forced me... someone who kicks people really hard & gets away with it.

Have to say I didn't see the big ups to Coutinho coming. He can knit a game so nicely, & he's far better in that central position where he can probe & direct traffic, it's vital to how the midfield & attack support one another. But... whilst there was an improvement vs. recent weeks, there were still too many overhit balls and moments of scruffiness for me to be totally satisfied that he's anywhere near his best. Or indeed his potential.

Suarez didn't have his best game either, coulda shoulda scored (maybe he would have if the team had been out of 2nd gear) but that's now a whole 2 games he's gone without a goal. The bitters should be bricking it...

For the record my MotM was Sturridge. He held it up really well, worked his backside off & scored (from Suarez's best moment in the game). I thought he looked sharp & dangerous when he had the ball at his feet. Sure he should've squared at least one (when he ran round it to use the outside of his left boot & missed) but overall he did a top job.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 07:46:38 pm by Mal »
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2014, 08:06:35 pm »
Hinsey mate, there;s so many  Scousers in Boscome poor John Mac' hands were on fire handing out tickets. It was a great day out, but getting round to the football... they gave us a hard time, eh. And why not. Good for them. We had a full team out, all I can say is, I miss Lucas. We need the water carrier.
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2014, 08:08:53 pm »
@Yorky

I'm not sure it is a choice between the two.

As it happens, I'm a massive fan of both of them.  Henderson is seen as a runner, which is part of his game, but not all of his game.  He's actually pretty good technically, and has decent vision.  He doesn't have the dribble on him that Coutinho has, but he's the first name I want in our midfield.

Coutinho is obviously much more effective in possession than he is out of possession.  I'd really like to see him doing more damage further forward though.

A huge part of our game is the pressing when it works well.  Henderson is vital to that.  He has the ability to keep the ball, press and recover positionally.

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2014, 08:16:49 pm »
Did the score flatter? Or does it not matter?
Should we have scored more? Or be grateful t'weren't a draw?
Enough of my guff
We beat Bournmouth.

Oh wood some power the gift to gi'e us
To see ourselves as others see us
It wood from many a blunder free us
And foolish notion
Like playing Cissokho
For example.

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2014, 08:17:41 pm »
Oh wood some power the gift to gi'e us
To see ourselves as others see us
It wood from many a blunder free us
And foolish notion
Like playing Cissokho
For example.

Even Rabbie was agin Cissokho?
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2014, 08:19:04 pm »
Oh wood some power the gift to gi'e us
To see ourselves as others see us
It wood from many a blunder free us
And foolish notion
Like playing Cissokho
For example.

Thats a Wang-Chung song, isn't it?
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2014, 09:14:53 pm »
we scored 2 and that'll do.
A goal for Victor Moses and Stuuridge with his poses.
A Brad Jones Clean Sheet and a cissokho with 2 left feet.
all in all job well done, Arry Redknapp didnt have much fun.
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2014, 09:57:38 pm »
Nail on the head re Henderson, the lad isn't able/unwilling to turn on the ball unless he has a thirty yard radius of free space, and is absolutely terrified of the ball at times. giving it to the centreback when he should be turning on it and getting us moving the other way. Some have laughably put that down to Gerrard being there alongside him making him nervous but it's only more noticeable with Gerrard there and less noticeable when Lucas or Allen are there, as those two are able to turn on the ball and don't go hiding for long stretches.

I wish we'd of tried him at fullback before Lucas got injured, right now he has to play in the middle because there's no alternative.

Tactically, we weren't compact enough, and if we give Everton the same freedom of midfield we gave Bournemouth we might find ourselves in trouble.

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2014, 11:02:51 pm »
Nail on the head re Henderson, the lad isn't able/unwilling to turn on the ball unless he has a thirty yard radius of free space, and is absolutely terrified of the ball at times. giving it to the centreback when he should be turning on it and getting us moving the other way. Some have laughably put that down to Gerrard being there alongside him making him nervous but it's only more noticeable with Gerrard there and less noticeable when Lucas or Allen are there, as those two are able to turn on the ball and don't go hiding for long stretches.

I wish we'd of tried him at fullback before Lucas got injured, right now he has to play in the middle because there's no alternative.

Tactically, we weren't compact enough, and if we give Everton the same freedom of midfield we gave Bournemouth we might find ourselves in trouble.
its a different game though lad, and you seriously cant be benchmarking us against Bournemouth and comparing that to a merseyside derby- fucking ridiculous.
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2014, 03:25:33 am »
The little cameo in the last 15 minutes  or so got me thinking could sterling play as a midfielder?
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2014, 07:28:28 am »
Even Rabbie was agin Cissokho?

He was agin crying 'would', 'wood' an all. :)

A nice day out at the seaside though. I do love to be beside the seaside.

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2014, 07:34:20 am »
He was agin crying 'would', 'wood' an all. :)

A nice day out at the seaside though. I do love to be beside the seaside.
Have a boat ride by the seaside.
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Offline Livo.85

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2014, 07:57:48 am »
For what it's worth I think Rafa would have loved Henderson. I'm struggling to understand why Brendan does.
???
Care to elaborate?
Henderson has been Liverpool's best midfielder this season. You struggle to understand why Rodgers loves him?

Also on the Rafa bit where would he of played? Masch, Lucas, Alonso, Gerrard would of all been preferred no? (Don't need to answer this as it's OT)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 08:06:16 am by Livo.85 »

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2014, 08:16:18 am »
I think he'd have played where kuyt or Stevie did, covering Masch's role as well.

The comments above about him not playing forward or quickly enough don't fit with my memory of the game.  He played a lot of first time passes in the possession phase and played a number of highly effective penetrating passes (in my memory ).

Offline B0151?

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2014, 08:16:42 am »
I agree with yorky on how Henderson played, but for me, all that means is he's not suited to being a deep lying CM, or DM, whatever you will. He's a box to box midfielder. He suits the 1-2 shape as much as anyone. I think him and Allen in that 2 is a really good, well balanced partnership, suited to our team, and if Gerrard being played behind the 2 in the Stoke game is anything to go by, it's one I think we'll be seeing a lot of the rest of the season.

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2014, 08:32:44 am »
I think the thing that struck me the most about the game was how many times I saw Bournemouth do something that I'd have expected from us - and how many times we looked like the supposedly 'weaker' opposition. It was simple things; like attacking with a bit of commitment and fluency, working themselves up the wing with triangular passing and movement or actually finding each other with passes within a 10ft space. Yes, the pitch was cut up and it was windy - but it was the same for both sides.

I should balance that negativity though by saying we didn't really ever look to go much above second gear. We produced two moments of quality which was the difference. Sturridge took his goal delightfully and Suarez provided the assist for both goals. Moses actually looked like he could play the game too, which was nice.

I'm not sure what it was about us - it wasn't an awkward game where they got stuck into us, they were more inclined to try and play their game (which was good to see). We just looked off the pace - perhaps a deliberate tactic from the manager I thought at first, but when he shook his head, gritted his teeth, turned and sat down after Cissokho and Toure combined yet again to pass the ball out of play when put under the slightest hint of pressure I thought it spoke volumes.

Just to continue moaning, I was a little disappointed in Brendan's subs too. Not quite sure what Alberto was meant to do in his 6 minute cameo and why didn't Ibe come on instead of Sterling (again, for more than 6 mins)? I can't really criticise the starting 11 because we needed to make sure we won, but when are guys like Aspas, Alberto, Ibe etc meant to get some minutes? I can't work it out, but then again I'm not the one paid to.

I'm pleased we won, don't get me wrong. It would have been awful to lose or draw and we know that feeling well from previous years. It's just I expected a little more - I expected better. Not nervous penalty box scrambles and having our best players on the park for 90 minutes with the derby on Tuesday. But then again, it's the 'magic of the cup' and I do admit to enjoying these battles against the lower teams - in truth I'd hate to see this kind of game vanish from the fixture list.

Moan over, bring on the Gunners ;)

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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2014, 09:23:22 am »
Thought it was a good performance, got through with the minimum of fuss.

There's just one thing I didn't like, and it's quite a big thing for me - and that was seeing either Sturridge or Suarez tracking back down the flank towards our own penalty area when Coutinho was just standing around in the centre circle the whole game.

I'm not blaming Lil' Phil as he was obviously told to occupy that "number 10" area, but the trouble is, when you have a player doing that, they simply get bypassed and contribute next to nothing defensively.

It shouldn't be beyond us to get this organised - against Bournemouth, for example, we had Moses tracking back on the left, and we could have got Coutinho to do the same on the right.

Now that we've got Sturridge and Suarez back in tandem, I think we can't afford to have a number 10 as such - we either have to go to more of a 442 or a lopsided 433 - whereby, if we've got Raheem tracking back on the right, then the left flank can be covered by one of the middle three, skewed to the left (that could be Coutinho)


 
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 09:26:08 am by pumblechookian »
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2014, 09:26:21 am »
Coutinho was just standing around in the centre circle the whole game.

Are you sure?
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2014, 09:32:58 am »
Are you sure?

If you see when Bournemouth are in possession, Coutinho contributed next to nothing, he simply remained in that number 10-ish position, as he'd obviously been told to do, and it was Suarez or Sturridge who were tracking the flanks.

My point was, for me, that's the wrong way round. As I said in my post I'm not blaming Coutinho - indeed, when he is asked to do it,
he does the tracking back very well.

I'd just rather see it that way around - in other words, we can't afford to have a rigid number 10 in that sense.

Just doesn't seem right to me to see Luis back there doing that stuff near our own corner flag - or Daniel, for that matter.
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2014, 09:34:49 am »
Sorry - I thought you said "the whole game".
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2014, 10:01:06 am »
Sorry - I thought you said "the whole game".

So, did you have anything to say - in a Roundtable kind of way - about the basic point - what we're asking Sturridge and Suarez
to do in our defensive set-up?
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2014, 10:16:48 am »
This is by no means one of my rants
but our defence is seven shades of pants
When fit, 'tis time to try Agger and Sakho
put Skrtel on the bench, Toure on a diet and ship back Cissokho

And who says we don't need a deep lying midfielder?


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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2014, 10:24:39 am »
I completely disagree with Yorkykopite. For me, the reason Gerrard improved (and that was a marginal improvement only) in the second half was because Henderson seemed to drop deeper alongside him and start helping out with tackles and opposition midfield runs. In the first half Henderson was trapped between a rock and a hard place; press the opposition and he was doing on his own and leaving gaps, sit and he was going to be over run. Behind him Gerrard just sat deep and was ineffective at combating the younger, more mobile midfielders. He was horribly static and offered little to influence out of possession of the ball.  Rodgers has to stop persisting with this idea that Gerrard can play DM at this stage of his career. He was given the run around in the first half by Bournemouth's midfield, arriving late to every dire situation, or watching as players sashayed past him. Bournemouth had so much time and space in front of the back four is part of the reason they looked so dangerous. Second half, henderson dropped in beside Gerrard and shut that avenue down. I hope its the last we see of this 'inverted triangle' with Gerrard on his own at the base, its killing the backline which is horribly shaky.

Not that they do themselves any favours. I know they are  a second choice backline, but Cissohko was so busy playing WWE he forgot to play football. I know Kelly is just back from injury, but he looked leaden and was targeted all game long. Skrtel and Toure were busy hot air ballooning, lots of shouting and pointing and hoicking balls to no one.  At the other end of the pitch I thought the front four did well off the scraps they were offered. Moses was impressive, preceding the goal with some surging runs that totally swung the momentum of the game. Coutinhio tried to put his foot on the ball and control the game, while Suarez was everywhere, at one point tracking back to help out the RB... prompting me to wonder where the midfield had gone.

A lucky result if you ask me, if Bournemouth hadn't panicked a few times when in decent positions, it could very easily have been a defeat. The nub of the problem for me (and has been all season) was the midfield. There are far too many Gerrard apologists out there, to my mind, a great servant of the club but he is now not able to cover the hard yards and his continued inclusion is detrimental to the side, I no longer care what people say, the evidence is there to my mind. When Gerrard was injured and Allen, Lucas and Henderson played together, the midfield and defence looked much better, much more solid and mobile. As soon as Gerrard came back, the problems returned and even Rodgers seems unsure what to do with him, trying to get him to become an English Pirlo at the tail end of his career. Gerrard was a swashbuckling player in his prime, not a thoughtful tactician with surgical precision and metronomic passing.

Bournemouth was a chance to see if Alberto could play in a midfield to give the whole thing some solidity. His exclusion now means that Liverpool will face Everton, with their five man midfield, with just Henderson and Gerrard. They will be overrun and Liverpool will lose. If Allen is back from injury, it will be more or less the same, since Gerrard and Allen are not a good combination. Liverpool are missing a proper DM without Lucas. In the near future Gerrard needs to be deployed further forward or moved to the bench. But for now, all the Bournemouth game did was fill me with fear for Tuesday.
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2014, 11:25:30 am »
It was noticeable at times that Coutinho was pressing up high with whoever was playing up top (Suarez or Sturridge) and there was a huge gap between them and our central midfield, leaving the defenders with easy out balls in the space.  You could see Suarez getting visibly frustrated at times and I wonder what the actual instruction was here because if we're going to press, it's gotta be as a team.
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2014, 11:41:12 am »
Yes, that was true. I don't think either Gerrard or Henderson are natural 'pressers' (unlike, say, Allen and Lucas). Gerrard's getting on and just isn't fit enough to do it properly. I don't blame him for that. Hendo is a reactive player. He waits to see what's happened and then he moves.  That's ok to a point, especially when you're as swift over the ground as he is. But it makes him a lousy presser.
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2014, 12:07:26 pm »
Yes, that was true. I don't think either Gerrard or Henderson are natural 'pressers' (unlike, say, Allen and Lucas). Gerrard's getting on and just isn't fit enough to do it properly. I don't blame him for that. Hendo is a reactive player. He waits to see what's happened and then he moves.  That's ok to a point, especially when you're as swift over the ground as he is. But it makes him a lousy presser.

Surely one of the best facets of Henderson's game is his pressing?

Interesting views from Donkey and Yorky, both well reasoned.

to be honest I don't think you can set too much store in a cup game like this, particularly with such a big game coming up. We did what was needed and never got out of second gear. Regardless of team selection and formation, tomorrow will be significantly different.


A point of optimism though, we're essentially playing with a third choice RB, a 4th choice CB and a 3rd choice LB, and we're still doing ok. That says a lot for the work done in improving the squad this summer.

I'll keep schtum however on the lack of another recognised DM in the squad which has been an issue for over a year, let alone this season.
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Re: RAWK Roundtable. Bournemouth (and Boscombe) 0-2 Liverpool
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2014, 12:36:01 pm »
Surely one of the best facets of Henderson's game is his pressing?

You hear that a lot mate, so perhaps I'm out on a limb here. But this is what I think. When he first came to Anfield it was like he'd never been properly coached. He simply didn't know how to tackle, and in particular where to stand to narrow the options of an opponent on the ball. Folks played around him. It was so easy. Under Brendan he began to change. Earlier this season there were signs that he'd 'got it'. I forget the game. It was at Anfield. Hendo was playing at the top of the midfield and he pressed brilliantly, turning the ball over several times. So there has been progress. But when he sits deeper he looks, to me, like he's at kindergarten again.

We're used to seeing Lucas play that role. He plays it superbly. Some take it for granted now - to the point where they think we can do without him! But he plays by anticipation. His reading of the game is top class and he's the opposite of reactive. He knows what an opponent is going to do before he does it. Alonsoesque in that respect. Therefore QUICK. Watching Hendo trying to figure out what to do back there is painful. You can almost see the question marks floating above his head. By the time he makes a decision it's too late. It's funny how football can turn quick players into slow ones.
 
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