Topic: PL: Eve 2 vs 0 Liverpool Bran 27’ Lewin 58’

[Gaz123456]

We've gone from doubters to believers and back to doubters again - fans and players alike.

Circle of life.

[Zimagic]

Midfield is still the main problem.

Yep, if we insist on playing the midfield 3 spread wide (perfect example yesterday of Dom & Jones hugging the sidelines all first half), Mac is pulled to one side to support the defense or attack and there's no-one there in the second pivot once the ball is ours again.

It has to go backwards (unless there's someone running in behind, but teams are playing very low Vs us to stop this) to the defense, gets recycled, their defense sets up again, we're back to probing to find a way through.

Inverted FB isn't working just right now, against low-block defensive teams anyway, double pivot should be preferred in-game, but we're so slow to adapt.

[Ray K]

Yeah. There’s about ten duels we ‘won’ in the first half that they fit free kicks for. And then got slaughtered for being bullied and for conceding too many free kicks.

That said, consistently losing the first header was bad. I know they overload the back post but we didn’t seem to have an answer to it.

We need more of the right sort of physicality for games like this. Too many nice son-in-law's as Souness put it. I don't mean hatchet men, just a proper James Milner type who'll make sure they're not getting a run and jump on set pieces in our box. If VVD isn't winning headers for us defensively, who is? Konate should, but doesn't really, he's more of a ground defender. It might be the difference between us and 115* - they have Rodri to do the bullying, we don't.

Madley was a fucking joke though last night. He gave 3 frees against Jones in our half in the 1st half, each one more ludicrous than the one before. Brian Glover in Kes would have thought 'that's a bit much now'.

[jillcwhomever]

We need more of the right sort of physicality for games like this. Too many nice son-in-law's as Souness put it. I don't mean hatchet men, just a proper James Milner type who'll make sure they're not getting a run and jump on set pieces in our box. If VVD isn't winning headers for us defensively, who is? Konate should, but doesn't really, he's more of a ground defender. It might be the difference between us and 115* - they have Rodri to do the bullying, we don't.

Madley was a fucking joke though last night. He gave 3 frees against Jones in our half in the 1st half, each one more ludicrous than the one before. Brian Glover in Kes would have thought 'that's a bit much now'.

How is that going to help us when referees are giving the opposition soft free kicks all the time? All that will lead to is sending offs on top of free kicks. Some of their "free kicks" were totally soft, and not something we'd get.

[killer-heels]

We need more of the right sort of physicality for games like this. Too many nice son-in-law's as Souness put it. I don't mean hatchet men, just a proper James Milner type who'll make sure they're not getting a run and jump on set pieces in our box. If VVD isn't winning headers for us defensively, who is? Konate should, but doesn't really, he's more of a ground defender. It might be the difference between us and 115* - they have Rodri to do the bullying, we don't.

Madley was a fucking joke though last night. He gave 3 frees against Jones in our half in the 1st half, each one more ludicrous than the one before. Brian Glover in Kes would have thought 'that's a bit much now'.

Konate does win headers. We have some of the most dominant centrebacks from all the top teams (compare their numbers to City and Arsenal’s numbers). But sometimes a striker can be awkward but we didnt do anything to disrupt him.

[Nick110581]

Konate does win headers. We have some of the most dominant centrebacks from all the top teams (compare their numbers to City and Arsenal’s numbers). But sometimes a striker can be awkward but we didnt do anything to disrupt him.

The goal is just ridiculous.

Konate slices it when Mac is clearing.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

How is that going to help us when referees are giving the opposition soft free kicks all the time? All that will lead to is sending offs on top of free kicks. Some of their "free kicks" were totally soft, and not something we'd get.

Fuck them. If we are hospitalising and ending careers for c*nts like Grealish then I'm all for it. We get fucking everything given against us every game anyway, I'd like us to be nasty bastards that properly deserve yellows - I'd love us to be kicking fuck out of these c*nts and telling the refs to go and fuck themselves.

Being nice has got us nowhere. Let's be nasty, horrible bastards and force these c*nts into positions where they can't book us any more without abandoning every fucking game.

[Ray K]

How is that going to help us when referees are giving the opposition soft free kicks all the time? All that will lead to is sending offs on top of free kicks. Some of their "free kicks" were totally soft, and not something we'd get.

Milner and Hendo helped by being English. That's always worth a huge amount of leeway with these EDL refs. I mean EPL refs. Bit of street smarts and experience would have helped us.

We did miss Miller's savvy though. Our midfield was non-existent, and just someone who pops up for a short pass, circulates the ball, moves it around and adds some control. We seem to go from zero possession to launch attacking balls without building a foundation first.

[Crosby Nick]

Brought back players that were obviously not match fit. Salah and Slobo, plus persevering with Nunez up top. Not sure why 6 changes were needed after Fulham.

Jota and Gakpo were enforced. So then who else are you bringing back. Konate for Quansah made sense but Ibou obviously had a mate.

Maybe didn’t need to change the entire midfield but think we were trying to freshen up.

[RedForeverTT]

Rightly called out by VVD

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c19dzjkyn3po

Up until yesterday, I was defending Dominik by saying it was fatigue. But what I saw last night was a player who is setting himself for a loan next season.

[Nick110581]

Rightly called out by VVD

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c19dzjkyn3po

Up until yesterday, I was defending Dominik by saying it was fatigue. But what I saw last night was a player who is setting himself for a loan next season.

Too late to call it out now.

[Coolie High]

People keep saying this the players have let him down, but anyone saying they expected to win the title this season is not being honest. This was a situation we never expected to be in considering what happened last season. Add all the numerous injuries this season as well, players in and out of the team, forcing other players to play more than they otherwise would; I am not entirely surprised we have run out of steam. If we get top four and a cup win, that would have satisfied me considering where we started the season from.

I thought at the start of the season we would win the league if we got  a top class DM.

[Bastion Of Invincibility]

Diaz...'brain dead' ffs were you watching the same game as me. The guy ran his socks off was inches from scoring and was the only one of our team who could walk off and say 'I gave it everything'...people on here jeez.

He misses too many chances for a forward player under Klopp where wide forwards get a lot of scoring opportunities. The majority of the time he's playing with his head down as evidenced by his low assist tally. He's been outscored by the likes of Gordon, Hwang, Bailey and Trossard in the Premier League. I call him brain dead because his technique and workrate and world class but it means nothing if they can't be converted to end product.

[Motty]

We looked like we'd gone stale last season (a ageing midfield wasn't the only issue) and had a boost with the new younger signings this season up to March but the signs have been there along the way that we still aren't performing consistently like 4 years ago and it's eventually caught up with us and more importantly it's caught up with Jurgen. Not many managers can give so much over so long without it catching up to them or the team as whole, Ferguson only managed it imo as he kept changing it up behind the scenes and brought in different people to run training for him thus keeping it fresh.

I'd rather keep Klopp and give him a total new team to freshen things up to be honest but it's not to be, let's just give him the send off he deserves for the remaining games now and forget everything else.

[petercormack]

Fuck them. If we are hospitalising and ending careers for c*nts like Grealish then I'm all for it. We get fucking everything given against us every game anyway, I'd like us to be nasty bastards that properly deserve yellows - I'd love us to be kicking fuck out of these c*nts and telling the refs to go and fuck themselves.

Being nice has got us nowhere. Let's be nasty, horrible bastards and force these c*nts into positions where they can't book us any more without abandoning every fucking game.

I agree. They go low, then so do you. We'll suffer initially , but the refs can't send everyone off. In the end the refs will have to treat us with more respect. Right now they can just fuck us about.

What I'd give for a Souness right now. Cultured baller, but he let nobody bully him.

[petercormack]

Too late to call it out now.

Not if the new manager hears it loud and clear. One Dutch man to another.

[thaddeus]

Jota and Gakpo were enforced. So then who else are you bringing back. Konate for Quansah made sense but Ibou obviously had a mate.

Maybe didn’t need to change the entire midfield but think we were trying to freshen up.

The enforced changes killed us really.

I'm sure there's reasons behind it for both Nunez and Salah (fitness, confidence?) but we were effectively playing with nine men for much of the game.  They also looked off the pace when they came on against Fulham.

I think both would benefit from us getting the ball forward a bit quicker but equally if their touch is like that of an elephant then Klopp can't risk stretching the game and getting caught out constantly on the counter.

[Dim Glas]

We’ve challenged for the title until 4 games from the end of the season (legitimately - we’re at >+1 xg/90 over the season) with one of the worst injury crisis I can remember
Most of our squad are pre or early peak age

Its an incredible inheritance for the new manager

This.

From people fawning over this squad, to wholesale changes needed within weeks is utterly bonkers. But show how fans’ opinions change like the wind I suppose!

Despite the collective break down this past month, this is still a great squad for a coach to take on. There will be some changes, and no doubt 2 or 3 players may well want out anyway, but Slot comes in here not needing to make whoelsale changes, that’s part of what makes it such an attractive job for any new coach.

[Fromola]

That's 5 of our last 7 we haven't scored at Goodison. The others were all 0-0.

We usually shit the bed there, but we probably created more good chances last night than the other games.

Different story with Jota in there, fresh from a goal the other day and even Gakpo. Nunez and Salah was like playing with 9.

[RedForeverTT]

That's 5 of our last 7 we haven't scored at Goodison. The others were all 0-0.

We usually shit the bed there, but we probably created more good chances last night than the other games.

Different story with Jota in there, fresh from a goal the other day and even Gakpo. Nunez and Salah was like playing with 9.

Patience is running thin with them.

It didn't matter no how many balls Robertson, Trent and Mac is putting it, you cannot keep wasting them or have poor first touches that leave them with no chance. Trent put in a peach of a ball for Nunez only for him to kick it with his heels really sums it up.

[na fir dearg]

The lack of game management and this inability to keep things tight for the first half hour is frustrating. We gave their fans a reason to keep the atmosphere boiling, didn't the offside goal come from Robertson making a marauding run up the left and losing the ball??
Klopp even said it himself after the game - what more can he do then, it's up to the players on the pitch to just slow things down, take the sting out of the game, we played the game on their terms

This is where you need your midfield players to take control and set the tempo, that was all wrong last night

[jillcwhomever]

I thought at the start of the season we would win the league if we got  a top class DM.

But it would still have been dependant on him staying fit all the way through the season, it was never doable.

[BCCC]

Hopefully back to line up we went with a Fulham which based on current performances is first choice. Will need to replace Jota but lets face it what should be first choice on paper isn't playing that way.

[Rich]

Fair play to Everton, deserved their win.

Win freekicks and corners and beat us in the air. All you need against a team with only 3 lads who are willing to jump for a header

[jillcwhomever]

Fair play to Everton, deserved their win.

Win freekicks and corners and beat us in the air. All you need against a team with only 3 lads who are willing to jump for a header

Well of course, it helps when you actually get free kicks, which we didn't last night.

[Nin]

Quansuah is techincally a better footballer than Konate and should have kept his place the last few games. I also would have preferred to see Gomez in defence in one of the FB positions. Elliot gets subbed on with 15 to go, why not bring him on earlier? One of the few players we have that actually looks for a decisive pass.

[Rich]

Well of course, it helps when you actually get free kicks, which we didn't last night.

Nope, and the ref played into their tactics by giving too many soft free kicks for any contact.  You could adapt to that though instead of getting frustrated.

[danm77]

Simon Jordan blames the players and says this is not on Klopp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjR9NOnKYlM

[rawcusk8]

Hi Mods, if you’re even in this thread - can the new manager thread be opened please? I’ve got it on good authority that we’re hiring a bald Dutch chap that looks like Hank from Breaking Bad. Come to think of it Eric Ten Haag looks like Heisenberg.. Maybe we’re on to something here, a Breaking Bad tribute act or something? Anyways, be nice to open the thread and get some updates. Ta

[bornandbRED]

We’ve challenged for the title until 4 games from the end of the season (legitimately - we’re at >+1 xg/90 over the season) with one of the worst injury crisis I can remember
Most of our squad are pre or early peak age

Its an incredible inheritance for the new manager

Yeah, people are going way overboard with cries to sell half the squad. 80+ points and a cup is a very decent season, considering where we were. It’s just shit how it’s played out.

[Eeyore]

Nope, and the ref played into their tactics by giving too many soft free kicks for any contact.  You could adapt to that though instead of getting frustrated.

How can you adapt though. They were flying into challenges and getting away with fouling our players left right and centre. Then as soon as we went near them they were getting soft free kicks all over the place. Last night was like a boxing match in which only fighter was allowed to punch their opponent.

[Nick110581]

Simon Jordan blames the players and says this is not on Klopp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjR9NOnKYlM

He’s a stupid c*nt so his opinion is invalid.

[Schmarn]

How can you adapt though. They were flying into challenges and getting away with fouling our players left right and centre. Then as soon as we went near them they were getting soft free kicks all over the place. Last night was like a boxing match in which only fighter was allowed to punch their opponent.

The reffing was poor but doesn’t explain why we lost every header in the box from a set piece. It was the only way they were going to score. The niggles and half fouls might frustrate us but let’s not be in denial and pin last night on the refs.  The first goal was Sunday league defending and the uncontested header from 6 yards out for the second was a disgrace. Yes, Virg was partially blocked but he was too far away and ambling into position.

None of which excuses the finishing which was brainless again. It’s clear now that Darwin doesn’t aim, he just wellies it. I don’t want to see him grinning in a derby game especially when he’s been so poor. It’s not just him obviously but we got what we deserved last night.

Feel sorry for Jurgen but in the end it was a step too far this year given where we were last season.

Everton were hungrier and wanted it more which is the first time I’ve said that in the Klopp era in a derby game.

[Eeyore]

The reffing was poor but doesn’t explain why we lost every header in the box from a set piece. It was the only way they were going to score. The niggles and half fouls might frustrate us but let’s not be in denial and pin last night on the refs.  The first goal was Sunday league defending and the uncontested header from 6 yards out for the second was a disgrace. Yes, Virg was partially blocked but he was too far away and ambling into position.

None of which excuses the finishing which was brainless again. It’s clear now that Darwin doesn’t aim, he just wellies it. I don’t want to see him grinning in a derby game especially when he’s been so poor. It’s not just him obviously but we got what we deserved last night.

Feel sorry for Jurgen but in the end it was a step too far this year given where we were last season.

Everton were hungrier and wanted it more which is the first time I’ve said that in the Klopp era in a derby game.

They want to load the box with their big men. They had a clear aerial advantage with the likes of Calvert Lewin, Branthwaite, Tarkowski and Goddfrey. We look to gegenpress and counter attack. Not only did the 10v1 first half foul count give them a ridiculous number of opportunities to load our box it also completely nullified our attempts to counterattack.

Were they hungrier or just given a green light by the referee to rough our players up but anytime we attempted to fight fire with fire they got another free kick. How can you possibly be the more physical and aggressive team but have a 10v1 free-kick advantage in your favour. Klopp spent the whole of the first 30 minutes complaining to the 4th official about Everton getting soft free kicks.

The captain complains about the way the referee officiated the game and he gets booked. 

[arbiarbi]

You can't win the league if you don't keep a clean sheet!!!
It is normal that there comes a period when the attack has a crisis in scoring goals. Those are the moments when the defense needs to make a difference, but they dont!

Only 9 clean sheets in 34 games... How can we expect to win the league ? Without 1-0 wins it is impossible to win the league! We have only one against Nottingham Forest.  When the offense is in crisis, if the defense does its job, it will somehow find a way to score that one goal and win.

Everton and Crystal Palace were perfect games for that! But but... In both games we concended early goals due to Konate's bad reactions.. That's it. I appreciate him but Quansah looks much better currently, especially with his ball playing abbilities..


People blame the the attack the mostly, but I think the defense will cost us the tittle more than the attack.

[telekon]

Absolutely spot on.

It's fair and correct for people to say that several players through the lineup (Ibou, Szobo, Jones, Endo) have also had their levels tail off badly. But no matter how much of a cliche it is, you can't ever understate the importance of goals changing games and changing the mood.

The same thing happened in the second leg vs Atalanta - Salah missed what was for him a really scorable chance and the mood and hope plummeted from there. Same thing last night. Once Darwin and Diaz missed those chances, we mentally gave in. If Salah's goes in vs Atalanta, and we get to the break 2-0 up, then I think we get another one or two in the second half. If Darwin scores his biggest chance last night, I think we go on to win in the second half.

Collectively the players should've done better recently, but to me, the goalscorers in the team are the most culpable. They have absolutely killed us the past 6 weeks. Darwin in my opinion will never be a guy we could count on - he is what he is. Salah's disintegration is pretty incredible to me though. I still can't think of a worse example in elite sports where the superstar of a team completely and utterly shrank and disappeared for an extended period when in the decisive part of the season.

Yep.

It is clear that we need a #9 "finisher" and a wide man "finisher" next season.

[telekon]

Hi Mods, if you’re even in this thread - can the new manager thread be opened please? I’ve got it on good authority that we’re hiring a bald Dutch chap that looks like Hank from Breaking Bad. Come to think of it Eric Ten Haag looks like Heisenberg.. Maybe we’re on to something here, a Breaking Bad tribute act or something? Anyways, be nice to open the thread and get some updates. Ta

The most Black Francis manager there ever was. Hope he can shout like him as well.

Speaking of doppelgangers, it is no wonder that Fox Mulder and Szoboszlai was never seen together.