Author Topic: What are we transitioning to?  (Read 5806 times)

Offline mercurial

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #40 on: February 5, 2023, 07:06:55 pm »
No idea and I don’t think the club / management does either. For awhile I thought a few midfielders would fix the problem, but it’s become increasingly clear there’s deep, structural issues around the club.

I did assume something similar. The various articles and analysing everything in totality led to conclude that this is not something ee can fix in one season. It requires a reboot. New players definitely needed but at same time new executive management is needed. That’s quite a fee positions and departments which need to be revamped. We need something on the
Medical side of of things to be fixed pronto. So many injuries and buying such fragile players is just not acceptable. Then we need to fix the finances. That’s a huge ask without CL football. If we drop out it’s not easy to get back in given all the challenges above. Many here will point “but the quadruple challenge last season”. I believe that’s all in past now. That was the last hurray for an exceptional squad whose time has sadly come to an end. FSG did mess up big time. I don’t care about the sale but they were criminally negligent in not upgrading the squad last 2 seasons. The only excuse I see is no one really anticipated thi type of meltdown coupled with a sale process and injuries.
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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #41 on: February 5, 2023, 07:12:38 pm »
I did assume something similar. The various articles and analysing everything in totality led to conclude that this is not something ee can fix in one season. It requires a reboot. New players definitely needed but at same time new executive management is needed. That’s quite a fee positions and departments which need to be revamped. We need something on the
Medical side of of things to be fixed pronto. So many injuries and buying such fragile players is just not acceptable. Then we need to fix the finances. That’s a huge ask without CL football. If we drop out it’s not easy to get back in given all the challenges above. Many here will point “but the quadruple challenge last season”. I believe that’s all in past now. That was the last hurray for an exceptional squad whose time has sadly come to an end. FSG did mess up big time. I don’t care about the sale but they were criminally negligent in not upgrading the squad last 2 seasons. The only excuse I see is no one really anticipated thi type of meltdown coupled with a sale process and injuries.

The issue for me has not so much upgrading the squad over the last few years but the period before that. We stopped recruiting when we won the CL and pushed the can down the road. That has meant with no owner investment, and massive spending on infrastructure our budget has gone on playing catch up.

A perfect example would be selling Lovren and not replacing him. That meant the following season pretty much our entire budget went on Konate. At a time when we should have been refreshing the midfield and attack, we were fixing the previous season's issue. The same thing happened with Gini.

We need to be pro-active and not reactive to issues.
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Offline newterp

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #42 on: February 5, 2023, 07:17:27 pm »
If we are supposed to answer in one word:

Chaos.*



*not the good kind

Offline rushyman

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #43 on: February 5, 2023, 11:42:22 pm »
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #44 on: February 6, 2023, 12:07:57 am »
Chicken Kebab meat and chips with garlic sauce and lettuce

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #45 on: February 6, 2023, 02:11:37 am »
Into something that doesn’t resemble what made us successful. Along with the general lack of spending power, we’re making bad decisions. Nunez/Gakpo were unnecessary signings; I’d even potentially put Diaz in that boat personally.

The strategic direction of the club has entirely changed. That’s what we should be concerned about because coaching only gets you so far.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #46 on: February 6, 2023, 03:18:50 am »
Into something that doesn’t resemble what made us successful. Along with the general lack of spending power, we’re making bad decisions. Nunez/Gakpo were unnecessary signings; I’d even potentially put Diaz in that boat personally.

The strategic direction of the club has entirely changed. That’s what we should be concerned about because coaching only gets you so far.

So what you are saying is that we shouldnt have signed Gakpo, Nunez and Diaz? So we went from people thinking we could do without Gakpo, then to some people thinking we could do without Gakpo and Nunez, to now Gakpo, Nunez and Diaz.

Why? Is Jota, Salah and Bobby enough?

Offline Simplexity

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #47 on: February 6, 2023, 03:21:56 am »
As long as we have owners whos hearts aren’t in it. We will not do much of anything. Ownership situation needs to be resolved one way or the other.

Offline Jon2lfc

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #48 on: February 6, 2023, 08:30:10 am »
We probably need a Van Dijk type signing pretty soon.

But for midfield.

I.e. a player that will transform that area of the pitch like Virg did when he joined.
Similar to Alission in goal I suppose, too.

So the club need to focus on one (or two) target players and stubbornly refuse to sign anyone else.

Easier said than done. But that's a potential solution to take us up a level that is definitely needed.

Offline Schmarn

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #49 on: February 6, 2023, 08:30:16 am »

Everton?

Seriously though look how bad Man Utd looked a year ago. With direction from ownership and some investment, some of the players who currently look terrible will regain their form.

As many have said the problem is the refusal by ownership to build once we got to the top. Since we won the league we have only had one off transfers of players, some promising some less so. Sadly there is a clear correlation between transfers made under Michael Edwards and those made under Ward. Edwards hit rate was phenomenal whereas everything since has been middling at best and not in areas of need.

The danger now without the CL (barring the unlikely prospect of winning it) is that we won’t be able to recruit the best talent. It’s gross negligence that we passed up the chance at building a dynasty especially with our fan base and revenue. The owners have clearly checked out and I fear who may buy us. The best scenario is a consortium of Brits and Americans prepared to invest heavily but if we go the sportswashing route the club won’t matter anymore.

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #50 on: February 6, 2023, 11:15:08 pm »
So what you are saying is that we shouldnt have signed Gakpo, Nunez and Diaz? So we went from people thinking we could do without Gakpo, then to some people thinking we could do without Gakpo and Nunez, to now Gakpo, Nunez and Diaz.

Why? Is Jota, Salah and Bobby enough?

Yep, that’s what I said.

Should be playing Elliot in the false 9.

Offline King Kenny 7

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #51 on: February 7, 2023, 12:09:56 am »
We are transitioning into a better team.

All teams have ups and downs - some of our fans sound like Mancs, privileged and entitled.



Ya gotta be able to handle the tough times.

Offline Cormack Snr

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #52 on: February 7, 2023, 08:47:37 am »
Somebody said this on here nearly three years ago.

We are World, European and English Champions and we haven't really played well and won since Boxing day. I have said it before but if we don't buy some quality players in the summer we could turn a 20pt advantage into 2nd or 3rd position next season. Our best eleven can match anybody on their day but apart from the young lads for the future i am not really keen on our subs for the future.
People can say "What you on about we have won the league" . The league is won now I am now thinking about next season..

A Prominent poster with nearly 33,000 replied.

Fuck me, I bet you're fun at parties. Enjoy the league win for crying out loud.


An even more Prominent poster with nearly 55,000 posts also said this.

Fuck me, you think he gets invited to parties?


An even more other Prominent Poster with over 69,000 posts said this.

Fucking hell are you serious.

We haven’t even started next season.

How long before PhaseOfPlay is on here telling us how his minutes calculator and expertise means we will finish 4th next season?


An even more Prominent Poster with over 71,000 posts mocked the post

Some people on here saw this mess coming while others buried their heads, we on here are Butchers, Bakers and Candlestick makers who talk about and watch football. The people who manage and run our club are EXPERTS in their field or should be. All the best teams and clubs including us have strengthened while at the Top and you have to be Ruthless and not get too friendly with your players and let them go without emotion. Sentiment doesn't win leagues and cups and players come and go while LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB will be here forever.









« Last Edit: February 7, 2023, 09:31:15 am by Cormack Snr »

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #53 on: February 7, 2023, 08:56:07 am »
That was a little negative given we'd just won the league!

That said, there has been a constant, 'bed wettter' narrative to all the posters pointing out how problematic it was that we weren't signing enough players. We had it for years with forwards, we had it with the defence, we had it with midfield. And our failure to strengthen early enough has consistently cost us. The team was running on fumes by the time the knockout stages of the cups came around in 19/20 - some more firepower would have been great. The team fell apart when our 3 senior CBs got injured. The team couldn't cope with zero physicality or athleticism in midfield and, again, fell apart, this season.

Someone will probably turn up with a, 'it's our strategy to wait' and use Van Dijk as exhibit A, which ignores what actually happened with Van Dijk. And of course it ignores all the times we've moved on from 'first choice' players to players further down the list. And of course even if it were our strategy there should have been enough evidence from the last few years - of us waiting and it costing us and us NOT waiting (Diaz) and it being a major boost, that if you're thinking, 'this midfield group can probably get us through this season' you should probably avoid the risk and go get who we might need.
« Last Edit: February 7, 2023, 08:58:34 am by Knight »

Offline mrantarctica

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #54 on: February 7, 2023, 09:24:00 am »
I think it's the case that we've had quite a few fringe players and because of our continued success, many of them didn't play all that much. For example, Joe Gomez in 3 seasons played about as many games as VVD last season (OK OK not exact but not far off). A similar pattern can be observed with Curtis, Harvey, Kostas. Players like Naby and Ox haven't built up a good understanding due to their injuries and inconsistency either. What this means is that when we really need some of these fringe players to pick up the impetus amidst a crisis of form for such regulars like Fabinho, VVD, Trent, Hendo and Salah, then they simply aren't equipped to do it. Pretty unfair focus then goes on young players who've not had the longest time to adjust e.g., Darwin, Gakpo and even Konate.

In hindsight, we are looking pretty silly for tying some ageing stars into long, expensive contracts when their decline in form is so stark. We could have planned a bit better there.

In some ways the opportunity doesn't get any easier than at a club like LFC where you are incredibly well looked after, play with other top players, have a world class manager, excellent fans (in general) and wonderful facilities. There can be no real excuses for not making something of your abilities, and if one cannot show something of genuine quality after such opportunity, then the natural conclusion is that they aren't actually good enough and need to move on. Hopefully for them it works elsewhere, but we can't be hanging on to sentiment as you say.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #55 on: February 7, 2023, 09:40:26 am »
To be in this wee crisis for the past six or seven years of brilliance i would snap your hand off. It's just a bleep on the radar for a club that's 130 years old. Even if the transition period takes two, three or more years then so be it as soon as to have the success we had during a period where clubs are funded by oil soaked tyrants then surely we have to acknowledge how lucky we are. I don't know where the journey will take us but if you survived 30 years without a title then i think you will be fine about us getting through the current "crisis". Look at the news about Turkey and realise how bloody lucky we are
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Offline rocco

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #56 on: February 7, 2023, 06:08:29 pm »
Don’t see any mentioning about our change in philosophy/style of play and how that has effected our results

Offline David in Edinburgh

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #57 on: February 7, 2023, 06:34:29 pm »
What are we transitioning to? The individual!

Offline Penfold78

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #58 on: February 7, 2023, 09:15:38 pm »
 A Sunday league team trapped in the the body of a famous team that regularly excels in the toughest league in the world and in the knockout rounds of the CL.

 Coach isn’t bad though.

Offline Bobinhood

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #59 on: February 7, 2023, 10:10:52 pm »
Klopp’s never had to transition a side before but all in all that shouldn’t be too difficult. The problem is it feels like he is transitioning the club.

OP is a good post, ive thought something similar for quite a while. However i think its unfair not to include Elliot Jones Carvahlo Nunez (especially Nunez) Gakpo and the Batman as essential parts of the rebuild. Even Kelleher if he stays long enough.

Now Heels, i feel you are dead wrong here. in fact for me Klopps best talent love and results are the rebuild. Its his greatest strength. He totally stripped us down as a barely working chevy flat bed and rebuilt us into a Formula 1 Ferrari. He took Mainz out of the 2nd division to competitive in the first, he took Dortmund from just another team to champions and cl finalists. He loves this part of the job and hes the best  there is at it.

I haven't been sweating this year all that much although it admittedly sucks quite badly, because i look at the youth we have and the manager we have and the young but very high level talent we still have and i think it will be better in the end that the last team was. Jota and Diaz alone would be pretty helpful just at this time, for example. Konate will continue the VVD experience.

Its stuttering badly at the moment but a lot of the building blocks are already in place. Remember, we pretty much couldn't keep a ball out the net untill we picked up VVD and ALi and BOOM. How many 10 game winning streaks? lots. Such a good team.

Chill pills for me.



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Offline smurfinaus

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #60 on: February 7, 2023, 11:18:06 pm »
I wouldn't call it transitioning unless he plans to change the formation/tactical tweaks to something radically different like the possession based one we saw glimpses of (which doesnt seem to work at least for now). We always knew midfield was short/getting old/lacking players in their prime. Personally prefer they try push through more academy players if money is a bit tight moving forward to be honest.

Offline hide5seek

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #61 on: February 7, 2023, 11:39:51 pm »
I think we have to  accept its over. Were back in the pack and will be left behind.
We had a good run under Klopp but he wasn't backed properly and we've wasted the last 2 seasons not bringing in quality midfielders, and 4 clubs are now better than us.

Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #62 on: February 8, 2023, 12:04:16 am »
OP is a good post, ive thought something similar for quite a while. However i think its unfair not to include Elliot Jones Carvahlo Nunez (especially Nunez) Gakpo and the Batman as essential parts of the rebuild. Even Kelleher if he stays long enough.

I thought it wqas implicit in the post that they were. I only highlighted the young players who i felt had established themselves, the implication being the others were still growing into that role.
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Offline Bobinhood

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #63 on: February 8, 2023, 01:18:10 am »
I thought it wqas implicit in the post that they were. I only highlighted the young players who i felt had established themselves, the implication being the others were still growing into that role.

Fair enough. Its so early that obviously the jurys still out on many of these players. I like the potential in the whole lot of them, actually, i dont think with blinkers on not fully anyway . With appropriate additions going forward and Klopp, im looking forward to 2.0. I really think theres a decent chance we can build a very good team here. Deep, fast, energetic, skilled, hungry.

Right now id take a goal of someone's arse but thats a different story

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #64 on: February 8, 2023, 04:09:09 am »
OP is a good post, ive thought something similar for quite a while. However i think its unfair not to include Elliot Jones Carvahlo Nunez (especially Nunez) Gakpo and the Batman as essential parts of the rebuild. Even Kelleher if he stays long enough.

Now Heels, i feel you are dead wrong here. in fact for me Klopps best talent love and results are the rebuild. Its his greatest strength. He totally stripped us down as a barely working chevy flat bed and rebuilt us into a Formula 1 Ferrari. He took Mainz out of the 2nd division to competitive in the first, he took Dortmund from just another team to champions and cl finalists. He loves this part of the job and hes the best  there is at it.

I haven't been sweating this year all that much although it admittedly sucks quite badly, because i look at the youth we have and the manager we have and the young but very high level talent we still have and i think it will be better in the end that the last team was. Jota and Diaz alone would be pretty helpful just at this time, for example. Konate will continue the VVD experience.

Its stuttering badly at the moment but a lot of the building blocks are already in place. Remember, we pretty much couldn't keep a ball out the net untill we picked up VVD and ALi and BOOM. How many 10 game winning streaks? lots. Such a good team.

Chill pills for me.

You’ve made an important point about Klopp there. Klopp is exceptional at rebuilding.

I’ve been critical of him this season. It’s been difficult to watch a great squad, with some sensational players, stagnate and then decline precipitously. Klopp seems like has been struggling to keep things together. In reality, he is probably just managing the decline as a younger team emerges. It’s his classic rebuild. We’re already seeing some of the young lads show real promise against good opposition. Bajcetic and Elliot look the part. They are learning as they go, but the talent and will seem there. Carvalho, too, but it may take longer. He hasn’t trained with Klopp as long as the other two. Doak seems very highly rated. Gakpo and Nunez have high floors for their age. Klopp will have time to find their ceilings before they peak, whatever they may be. That’s a lot of younger players emerging at the same time. Klopp has done very well with them this season. He has shown some genuine faith in them and they have responded to it. I’m grumpy about the mentality monsters declining, but these young lads might have genuine futures at the club. Klopp is taking them seriously.

Offline nerdster4

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Reasons to be optimistic ?
« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2023, 08:55:01 pm »
Spurs and Newcastle are sooo inconsistent .

Real Madrid are not as good as last season .

Jota is back . Diaz back soon . Melo might turn out to be what we need .

Top 4 and a deep champions league run not out of the question …

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Reasons to be optimistic ?
« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2023, 09:00:23 pm »
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline A Red Abroad

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Re: Reasons to be optimistic ?
« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2023, 09:01:00 pm »
Spurs and Newcastle are sooo inconsistent .

Real Madrid are not as good as last season .

Jota is back . Diaz back soon . Melo might turn out to be what we need .

Top 4 and a deep champions league run not out of the question …

 :thumbup
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Offline deano2727

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Re: Reasons to be optimistic ?
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2023, 09:10:23 pm »
If we win the next 3, you never know. Anything short of that, and it's curtains.

I have zero faith in us to win the next 3 though.

Offline harryc

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2023, 12:51:51 am »
Who knows with the club up for sale.

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2023, 01:18:05 am »
Somebody said this on here nearly three years ago.

We are World, European and English Champions and we haven't really played well and won since Boxing day. I have said it before but if we don't buy some quality players in the summer we could turn a 20pt advantage into 2nd or 3rd position next season. Our best eleven can match anybody on their day but apart from the young lads for the future i am not really keen on our subs for the future.
People can say "What you on about we have won the league" . The league is won now I am now thinking about next season..

A Prominent poster with nearly 33,000 replied.

Fuck me, I bet you're fun at parties. Enjoy the league win for crying out loud.


An even more Prominent poster with nearly 55,000 posts also said this.

Fuck me, you think he gets invited to parties?


An even more other Prominent Poster with over 69,000 posts said this.

Fucking hell are you serious.

We haven’t even started next season.

How long before PhaseOfPlay is on here telling us how his minutes calculator and expertise means we will finish 4th next season?


An even more Prominent Poster with over 71,000 posts mocked the post

Some people on here saw this mess coming while others buried their heads, we on here are Butchers, Bakers and Candlestick makers who talk about and watch football. The people who manage and run our club are EXPERTS in their field or should be. All the best teams and clubs including us have strengthened while at the Top and you have to be Ruthless and not get too friendly with your players and let them go without emotion. Sentiment doesn't win leagues and cups and players come and go while LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB will be here forever.

I mean you could just name them, you don’t need to be so coy about smicer07, Lobo and Killer heels responding to your post.
You're all too fucking serious, the lot of you. Relax, we don't really matter.

Oh, and we should have an in's and out's topic, stickied.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2023, 02:37:16 am »
Reading threads like this - with the greatest of respect to Donkey’s fine analysis and many of the other posters with similar considered analyses of our current malaise and future predicted problems and shortcomings - it makes me so grateful that for the past 60 years or so, going right back to our pre-Shankly days of Bert Slater, Jimmy Harrower, Dick White, Kevin Lewis, Alan A’Court et alia I have always been a cockeyed optimist where the Reds are concerned.

It makes supporting our incredible club so much fucking easier through any of the many disappointments and barren spells we encounter. Like this one. Some of you despondent fuckers should try it once in a while instead of wallowing in expertise and statistics which reek of doom. It really works.

Through my red tinted specs I see no reason why we will not turn this season around and make the top four and as for next season - well with a clutch of top signings in the right areas I see the world as our oyster.

As ever I shall be bellowing out my cockeyed optimism at the game on Mondee night.

 :)

Offline nerdster4

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Re: Reasons to be optimistic ?
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2023, 11:05:06 pm »
Spurs and Newcastle are sooo inconsistent .

Real Madrid are not as good as last season .

Jota is back . Diaz back soon . Melo might turn out to be what we need .

Top 4 and a deep champions league run not out of the question …

Top 4 and deep CL run incoming ?

Offline nerdster4

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #73 on: February 18, 2023, 07:16:49 pm »
Top 4 and deep CL run incoming ?

Offline kavah

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Re: What are we transitioning to?
« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2023, 07:34:10 pm »
Reading threads like this - with the greatest of respect to Donkey’s fine analysis and many of the other posters with similar considered analyses of our current malaise and future predicted problems and shortcomings - it makes me so grateful that for the past 60 years or so, going right back to our pre-Shankly days of Bert Slater, Jimmy Harrower, Dick White, Kevin Lewis, Alan A’Court et alia I have always been a cockeyed optimist where the Reds are concerned.

It makes supporting our incredible club so much fucking easier through any of the many disappointments and barren spells we encounter. Like this one. Some of you despondent fuckers should try it once in a while instead of wallowing in expertise and statistics which reek of doom. It really works.

Through my red tinted specs I see no reason why we will not turn this season around and make the top four and as for next season - well with a clutch of top signings in the right areas I see the world as our oyster.

As ever I shall be bellowing out my cockeyed optimism at the game on Mondee night.

 :)

Top 4 and deep CL run incoming ?

  :scarf :scarf :scarf