Topic: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?

[Kekule]

No surprise at all.

Good for the gun business as well, as everyone rushes out to buy yet more guns to protect themselves from not only “bad guys with a gun” but also the so called “good guys with a gun” who confuse other “good guys with a gun” for a bad guy with a gun.

[Persephone]

It's sickening. Everyone knows if Rittenhouse was a black man he'd most likely have been shot and if he even made it to trial then no possible way is he declared not guilty.

What is the point of a judicial system that is so flawed and rigged that even in such a blatant case justice is not forthcoming. My heart hurts for those victim's families and friends today.

[Linudden]

I only saw the full video yesterday so here's my honest take as someone who's very much anti-gun in general. I've also done 1.5 years of law studies but admittedly I haven't read Wisconsin law.

Fundamentally, a murder one on Rosenbaum was never ever going to stick in a court room in a country that has the second amendment in the constitution. Premeditated murder, what they charged him with, means that he searched out individuals or groups of people to assassinate them, had planned it and would run towards them. It's just not what the video shows, even though the kid clearly got a screw loose.

You could maybe make an argument for a second-degree manslaughter for using excessive force although it's quite clear that he ran away. It's not inconceivable that one count on that could've won over at least part of the jury.

Due to the camera angle behind the cars concealing what went on it's impossible to say what exactly happened and how close Rosenbaum got to him and his gun though. One of the most basic things in law school is that the evidence needs to be absolute for the most absolute of charges. Either way, he should've never been there with the gun, he shouldn't have been in possession of a gun, but it definitely wasn't premeditated. They overcharged him.

The final two cases, in no way could be considered anything other than self-defence considering he way laying on the ground. I'm sorry for those who got affected by what happened but this is a very terrible situation in the first place. There are no winners. I genuinely do believe Rittenhouse (while it's clownish to show up with a firearm) had zero intent of actually hurting anyone that night and then made some hasty decisions when feeling under threat the first time which set off a chain reaction.

Him walking on the gun charge is ridiculous.

That being said, out of principle I don't believe adolescents should be able to receive life without parole. Maybe I'm too Swedish, I don't know.

I definitely don't endorse him, the NRA, gun nuts or the Republican Party, but what I do endorse is that when it comes to self defence, there should be a benefit of the doubt. It's better that a guilty person goes free than that someone innocent is thrown in jail, in particular when we're talking US sentencing. The jury made their call, it was 12-0 in the end from a jury in a suburban swing county, so I think it's better if people respect that.

Guns are bad. Don't do guns. That's all. RIP to the deceased and I hope Grosskreutz is able to live a decent life even with his arm injury. I hope that his skin colour didn't influence the verdict, I don't know. I hope a black guy would've been offered the same benefit of the doubt on murder one, but sadly I doubt it  The US has a very racist/biased legal system depending on definition.

[Lone Star Red]

I only saw the full video yesterday so here's my honest take as someone who's very much anti-gun in general. I've also done 1.5 years of law studies but admittedly I haven't read Wisconsin law.

Fundamentally, a murder one on Rosenbaum was never ever going to stick in a court-room in a country that has the second amendment in the constitution.

You could maybe make an argument for a second-degree manslaughter for using excessive force although it's quite clear that he ran away. It's not inconceivable that one count on that could've won over at least part of the jury.

Due to the camera angle behind the cars concealing what went on it's impossible to say what exactly happened and how close Rosenbaum got to him and his gun though. One of the most basic things in law school is that the evidence needs to be absolute for the most absolute of charges. Either way, he should've never been there with the gun, he shouldn't have been in possession of a gun, but it definitely wasn't premeditated. They overcharged him.

The final two cases, in no way could be considered anything other than self-defence considering he way laying on the ground. I'm sorry for those who got affected by what happened but this is a very terrible situation in the first place. There are no winners. I genuinely do believe Rittenhouse (while it's clownish to show up with a firearm) had zero intent of actually hurting anyone that night and then made some hasty decisions when feeling under threat the first time which set off a chain reaction.

Him walking on the gun charge is ridiculous.

That being said, out of principle I don't believe adolescents should be able to receive life without parole. Maybe I'm too Swedish, I don't know.

I definitely don't endorse him, the NRA, gun nuts or the Republican Party, but what I do endorse is that when it comes to self defence, there should be a benefit of the doubt. It's better that a guilty person goes free than that someone innocent is thrown in jail, in particular when we're talking US sentencing. The jury made their call, it was 12-0 in the end from a jury in a suburban swing county, so I think it's better if people respect that.

Guns are bad. Don't do guns. That's all. RIP to the deceased and I hope Grosskreutz is able to live a decent life even with his arm injury. I hope that his skin colour didn't influence the verdict, I don't know. I hope a black guy would've been offered the same benefit of the doubt on murder one, but sadly I doubt it  The US has a very racist legal system.

Yeah, agree with a lot of what you've said there.

[Persephone]

I only saw the full video yesterday so here's my honest take as someone who's very much anti-gun in general.

Fundamentally, a murder one on Rosenbaum was never ever going to stick in a court-room in a country that has the second amendment in the constitution.

You could maybe make an argument for a second-degree manslaughter for using excessive force although it's quite clear that he ran away. It's not inconceivable that one count on that could've won over at least part of the jury.

Due to the camera angle behind the cars concealing what went on it's impossible to say what exactly happened and how close Rosenbaum got to him and his gun though. One of the most basic things in law school is that the evidence needs to be absolute for the most absolute of charges. Either way, he should've never been there with the gun, he shouldn't have been in possession of a gun, but it definitely wasn't premeditated. They overcharged him.

The final two cases, in no way could be considered anything other than self-defence considering he way laying on the ground. I'm sorry for those who got affected by what happened but this is a very terrible situation in the first place. There are no winners. I genuinely do believe Rittenhouse (while it's clownish to show up with a firearm) had zero intent of actually hurting anyone that night and then made some hasty decisions when feeling under threat the first time which set off a chain reaction.

Him walking on the gun charge is ridiculous.

That being said, out of principle I don't believe adolescents should be able to receive life without parole. Maybe I'm too Swedish, I don't know.

I definitely don't endorse him, the NRA, gun nuts or the Republican Party, but what I do endorse is that when it comes to self defence, there should be a benefit of the doubt. It's better that a guilty person goes free than that someone innocent is thrown in jail, in particular when we're talking US sentencing. The jury made their call, it was 12-0 in the end from a jury in a suburban swing county, so I think it's better if people respect that.

Guns are bad. Don't do guns. That's all. RIP to the deceased and I hope Grosskreutz is able to live a decent life even with his arm injury. I hope that his skin colour didn't influence the verdict, I don't know. I hope a black guy would've been offered the same benefit of the doubt on murder-one, but sadly I doubt it 

I'm not even going to dignify this with a proper answer because this upsets me so much but this is some serious BS. That little fucker crossed over to a different state with an automatic weapon to confront protestors and you think he didn't mean to do harm??? He's a bloody neo Nazi and you think it's better he goes free to embolden the rest of those sick fucks???

[Iska]

The final two cases, in no way could be considered anything other than self-defence considering he way laying on the ground.

I haven’t seen the first one but I remember seeing the video of the final two in the immediate aftermath and my reaction was also that it was pretty obviously self-defence.

[west_london_red]

I am sure no one is surprised that  little murderer Rittenhaus has been found not guilty.

 

That judge was a crooked as they come, some of the shit he was pulling during the trial was shocking even for the Americans.

[Chakan]

Every single idiot with a gun now has a playbook on what to do. Confront people, antagonize them, shoot them, then claim self defense.

Welcome to the US.

[Linudden]

I'm not even going to dignify this with a proper answer because this upsets me so much but this is some serious BS. That little fucker crossed over to a different state with an automatic weapon to confront protestors and you think he didn't mean to do harm??? He's a bloody neo Nazi and you think it's better he goes free to embolden the rest of those sick fucks???

1. The gun was illegally obtained by him as a minor but it was in Kenosha all the time held by his sisters' boyfriend who legally posessed the firearm. Rittenhouse frequently travelled 20 miles across the state line, but he was not trafficking the weapon.
2. As far as I know, the AR-15 is a semi-automatic weapon?
3. What proof do you have that Rittenhouse was/is a neo-nazi? I know he was bloody stupid to show up there but it's the US, they have too many guns and it leads to bad chain reactions.
4. My belief on his intent doesn't matter, the question is, was it self-defence under the jurisdiction the defendant was trialled in relation to standards required to secure a conviction on murder one. Chauvin was rightfully convicted of a lower-tier murder charge, even his case didn't rise to the premeditation necessary to even seek a first-degree conviction. The Minnesota Department of Justice knew what they were doing, unlike these prosecutors.
5. Had the prosecution sought a winnable case: manslaughter 2 or 3 on Rosenbaum, he could've easily had a felony conviction right now.

[Caligula?]

I only saw the full video yesterday so here's my honest take as someone who's very much anti-gun in general. I've also done 1.5 years of law studies but admittedly I haven't read Wisconsin law.

Fundamentally, a murder one on Rosenbaum was never ever going to stick in a court room in a country that has the second amendment in the constitution. Premeditated murder, what they charged him with, means that he searched out individuals or groups of people to assassinate them, had planned it and would run towards them. It's just not what the video shows, even though the kid clearly got a screw loose.

You could maybe make an argument for a second-degree manslaughter for using excessive force although it's quite clear that he ran away. It's not inconceivable that one count on that could've won over at least part of the jury.

Due to the camera angle behind the cars concealing what went on it's impossible to say what exactly happened and how close Rosenbaum got to him and his gun though. One of the most basic things in law school is that the evidence needs to be absolute for the most absolute of charges. Either way, he should've never been there with the gun, he shouldn't have been in possession of a gun, but it definitely wasn't premeditated. They overcharged him.

The final two cases, in no way could be considered anything other than self-defence considering he way laying on the ground. I'm sorry for those who got affected by what happened but this is a very terrible situation in the first place. There are no winners. I genuinely do believe Rittenhouse (while it's clownish to show up with a firearm) had zero intent of actually hurting anyone that night and then made some hasty decisions when feeling under threat the first time which set off a chain reaction.

Him walking on the gun charge is ridiculous.

That being said, out of principle I don't believe adolescents should be able to receive life without parole. Maybe I'm too Swedish, I don't know.

I definitely don't endorse him, the NRA, gun nuts or the Republican Party, but what I do endorse is that when it comes to self defence, there should be a benefit of the doubt. It's better that a guilty person goes free than that someone innocent is thrown in jail, in particular when we're talking US sentencing. The jury made their call, it was 12-0 in the end from a jury in a suburban swing county, so I think it's better if people respect that.

Guns are bad. Don't do guns. That's all. RIP to the deceased and I hope Grosskreutz is able to live a decent life even with his arm injury. I hope that his skin colour didn't influence the verdict, I don't know. I hope a black guy would've been offered the same benefit of the doubt on murder one, but sadly I doubt it  The US has a very racist/biased legal system depending on definition.

This is a well reasoned post. No, I don't think Rittenhouse should be walking away a free man right now. But it's more complex than that. Also, from what I've seen, the judge should be nowhere near the bench ever again and the prosecution massively dropped the ball. A shame but not unexpected.

Far worse is to come. He's now a hero in GOP circles. He can get a job with Fox News. Or just run for something as a Republican and win.

[west_london_red]

1. The gun was illegally obtained by him as a minor but it was in Kenosha all the time held by his sisters' boyfriend who legally posessed the firearm. Rittenhouse frequently travelled 20 miles across the state line, but he was not trafficking the weapon.
2. As far as I know, the AR-15 is a semi-automatic weapon?
3. What proof do you have that Rittenhouse was/is a neo-nazi? I know he was bloody stupid to show up there but it's the US, they have too many guns and it leads to bad chain reactions.
4. My belief on his intent doesn't matter, the question is, was it self-defence under the jurisdiction the defendant was trialled in relation to standards required to secure a conviction on murder one. Chauvin was rightfully convicted of a lower-tier murder charge, even his case didn't rise to the premeditation necessary to even seek a first-degree conviction. The Minnesota Department of Justice knew what they were doing, unlike these prosecutors.
5. Had the prosecution sought a winnable case: manslaughter 2 or 3 on Rosenbaum, he could've easily had a felony conviction right now.

I haven’t got the time to go into it, but seriously Google some of the shit the judge got up to in the ‘trial’

[Persephone]

1. The gun was illegally obtained by him as a minor but it was in Kenosha all the time held by his sisters' boyfriend who legally posessed the firearm. Rittenhouse frequently travelled 20 miles across the state line, but he was not trafficking the weapon.
2. As far as I know, the AR-15 is a semi-automatic weapon?
3. What proof do you have that Rittenhouse was/is a neo-nazi? I know he was bloody stupid to show up there but it's the US, they have too many guns and it leads to bad chain reactions.
4. My belief on his intent doesn't matter, the question is, was it self-defence under the jurisdiction the defendant was trialled in relation to standards required to secure a conviction on murder one. Chauvin was rightfully convicted of a lower-tier murder charge, even his case didn't rise to the premeditation necessary to even seek a first-degree conviction. The Minnesota Department of Justice knew what they were doing, unlike these prosecutors.
5. Had the prosecution sought a winnable case: manslaughter 2 or 3 on Rosenbaum, he could've easily had a felony conviction right now.

Number 1 he had the gun illegally, who cares where he got it from. He should not have had it at all.
2. Does it matter, semi automatic/automatic? It's still a dealt weapon.
3. He was pictured in a bar with other white supremacists making the white power sign. Yeah he seems perfectly nice also his bail was organized by well known neo Nazis.
4. His intent matters because he didn't need to be there. He wanted to hurt and possibly kill, why else would someone go to a protest with a gun?
5. I don't know American law but the fact that fuck gets to walk out free is only because of his skin colour and that fact that the justice system is systematically racist. That judge was an absolute joke.

[The North Bank]

Absolutely disgusting this. Thought things would change after George Floyd. America is no better than a tin pot state. This just about does it.

[Linudden]

This is a well reasoned post. No, I don't think Rittenhouse should be walking away a free man right now. But it's more complex than that. Also, from what I've seen, the judge should be nowhere near the bench ever again and the prosecution massively dropped the ball. A shame but not unexpected.

Far worse is to come. He's now a hero in GOP circles. He can get a job with Fox News. Or just run for something as a Republican and win.

Cheers mate. The second part is both sad and true. Mind-boggling. I don't think he should be doing life but definitely some months for illegal possession of firearms should set him straight. At least show some deterrence to future copycats that it's not a good idea to be doing what he did in showing up armed to a protest. I also believe that should apply to Grosskreutz for him showing up strapped and aiming the weapon around. Both could do some time for that and I wouldn't mind.

I haven’t seen the first one but I remember seeing the video of the final two in the immediate aftermath and my reaction was also that it was pretty obviously self-defence.

I agree. I'd venture that charging him with murder one for the Huber shooting rather than just dropping the final two events altogether undercut the viability of the whole case and probably settled the jury against them. Not to mention Grosskreutz disastrous testimony where he casually admitted that Rittenhouse didn't fire until he pointed his gun right in front of the jury members. What did they expect? It was a gigantic blow to the whole case that they put him on the stand and tried for the juggular. They should've gone all in on a non-premeditated manslaughter on Rosenbaum and elaborated on that. Very bad tactics.

[Iska]

Seen the first one now too, also self-defence imo.  Realistically, having seen many trials, where there’s a bundle of charges and the overwhelmingly serious ones aren’t made out, a jury aren’t going to convict on the much lesser charge because it just looks like a technicality in comparison.  So this was the right verdict I think.

Grosskreutz disastrous testimony where he casually admitted that Rittenhouse didn't fire until he pointed his gun right in front of the jury members. What did they expect? It was a gigantic blow to the whole case that they put him on the stand and tried for the juggular. They should've gone all in on a non-premeditated manslaughter on Rosenbaum and elaborated on that. Very bad tactics.

No, the prosecutor isn’t there to secure a ‘win’, he’s there to make sure the case-as-it-happened is put before the jury.  That’s why Grosskreutz had to speak, even if sunk the case.  It would have been completely unethical to have held him back.

[John C]

The USA is broken.
I'm fuckin sickened by that verdict while it shouldn't even mean anything so important to me because of the distance and regularity of killings.

The system is fucking rotten.
c*nts.

[Only Me]

Dont overthink the verdict.

Its currently the maddest fucking country on earth - like if North Korea were run by religious fanatics and lawyers.

They are beyond hope and beyond help. Nothing these buffoons could do would surprise me any more.

Nutcases.

[Linudden]

Seen the first one now too, also self-defence imo.  Realistically, having seen many trials, where there’s a bundle of charges and the overwhelmingly serious ones aren’t made out, a jury aren’t going to convict on the much lesser charge because it just looks like a technicality in comparison.  So this was the right verdict I think.

Yeah my gut reaction was that once the gun charge was out of there (very bad call from the judge but proves Rittenhouse's lawyer was definitely acing his job to con the judge like that), the right verdict was reached. After watching what actually happened no premeditated murder happened and that was the charge. Terrible situation and then again, RIP to the deceased, but ultimately legal standards are there for a reason to prevent people perhaps more innocent than Rittenhouse from risking injustice.

I really hope he keeps it on the down low now though and lives a normal life. He shouldn't try and flex after this. Judging by his reaction both upon his arrest, during his testimony and after the verdict I hope that he's been taught a priceless lesson and will not do the same again. I'm not so confident other young boys in America will take it that way though and that's what concerns me.

[jillcwhomever]

Absolutely disgusting, words fail me. 

[thejbs]

It definitely wasn’t premeditated murder, but him getting completely absolved is ridiculous and will now lead to more unrest, injuries and deaths.

Would a black man have gotten off? We’d never have found out as he’d likely have been shot by cops after showing up armed like Rittenhouse.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

There will be a spree of these killings now.

[Persephone]

It's open season on protestors, bring your weapons and just declare you felt threatened. You know you the person with a big ass gun, who had no reason to be there. Watch how this leads to an escalation of violence.

The right wing are going to lap this up and treat this piece of shit as a hero. America is broken and the lunatics are running the asylum.

[Chakan]

There will be a spree of these killings now.

So mass shootings? Oh we have those already...

[WhereAngelsPlay]

So mass shootings? Oh we have those already...

You'll have a ppv death race before the end of the decade 

[Chakan]

You'll have a ppv death race before the end of the decade 

If broadcasters would allow it, it'll be the highest grossing ppv event ever. I guarantee it. It would shatter records.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

If broadcasters would allow it, it'll be the highest grossing ppv event ever. I guarantee it. It would shatter records.

It'll air on the metaverse

[ShatnersBassoon]

if those Ahmaud Arbery murderers get off too there'll be riots

just giving more green lights to right wing fuckwits to be vigilantes with no repercussions. 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

That Cawthorn prick.

"Kyle Rittenhouse is not guilty, my friends!" he said. "You have a right to defend yourself! Be armed, be dangerous, and be moral!"

[Persephone]

if those Ahmaud Arbery murderers get off too there'll be riots

just giving more green lights to right wing fuckwits to be vigilantes with no repercussions.

I'm pretty sure there will be protests on the streets of Kenosha today and I hope there will be no violence.

[ScouserAtHeart]

The prosecution didn't do a great job. Although with that judge, Giuliani could've probably won

[Linudden]

Number 1 he had the gun illegally, who cares where he got it from. He should not have had it at all.
2. Does it matter, semi automatic/automatic? It's still a dealt weapon.
3. He was pictured in a bar with other white supremacists making the white power sign. Yeah he seems perfectly nice also his bail was organized by well known neo Nazis.
4. His intent matters because he didn't need to be there. He wanted to hurt and possibly kill, why else would someone go to a protest with a gun?
5. I don't know American law but the fact that fuck gets to walk out free is only because of his skin colour and that fact that the justice system is systematically racist. That judge was an absolute joke.

1. I advocate for him to been convicted to a lesser prison sentence for the dropped gun charge. I agree with you. However, that's a completely separate charge from the double murder one charges the prosecution rushed into without thinking their case and conviction odds through adequately.
2. It matters because automatic weapons are illegal and semi-automatic aren't.
3. There are very loose standards for white supremacist and neo-nazis on RAWK from time to time so I'll just defer because I work way too many hours to check on every right-wing extremist in the US and what each said about this or that or what the okay sign means in whatever context. I'm too busy mate! Especially if a special two show up and want to discuss German elections. I'm not going to defend the twat anyway he shouldn't have had the gun and shouldn't have supported the orange nutjob but at the same time he shouldn't do life.
4. He didn't need to be there but he was. He was wrong to be there, but so were many other armed people that night. That's a gun law problem, not a Kenosha court problem.
5. There's no way to prove what the outcome would've been if he'd been black, but sadly I tend to agree with you that his odds would've been worse. Impossible to prove though, although I empathise with your frustration.
6. Rosenbaum being where he was and doing what he was doing is a testament to the failure of the US mental health system. The guy was clearly unwell and he was victimised by the wardens for releasing him that morning when he was in what appeared to be a psychosis. You will not randomly run at an armed person and threaten them when in a normal state of mind. Based on other footage of him that night to me it came across as he was going through a severe mental health crisis. It was very unfortunate and tragic that he died even considering his previous convictions.

Spoiler

Yes, Snopes. Not a right-wing site.(https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/09/11/rittenhouse-victims-records/)

[close]

Even so, you have to hold those who released him from the institution to account for grave negligence in determining his state of mind and also why he wasn't given adequate care and rehabilitation after the hideous things that went on during his adolescence. Nothing can change that he needn't have been there if not for that very thing. Also then, Huber would've been alive today. I think his wardens should at the very least be investigated for negligence for releasing an apparently suicidal patient going through a severe crisis while the Jacob Blake situation was going on. It's just so sad.

Hope that clears things up, I'm absolutely not mad at you and I understand why you feel upset. It's terrible what happened all of that week. The police offers didn't need to fire as many seven shots at Jacob Blake in the first place even though he was under suspicion for a serious felony. It wouldn't have happened in any other Western or East Asian democracy. It's a general problem in the US with trigger-happy coppers and so long as that happens it's a vicious cycle.

Where you really lost me is your last post that I don't even want to quote: I desperately wish things to remain calm in Kenosha tonight. It's for the sake of everyone and a community that needs to heal and get closure after a tumultous year. They don't need to go through this again. Please.

That Cawthorn prick.

Yikes. 'Be dangerous' what the fuck he's a lawmaker and speaks like a lunatic inciting violence. The future of the GOP with him and that crazy Q-anon lady seems... bonkers

Depressing state of affairs. I think it's just better to call it quits and get on with the Friday evening to be honest and be glad I'm not living in the United States.

[Red-Soldier]

The country is fucked!

How many times can you continue to write the same sentence, over and over again.

[Red Beret]

I'm presuming this lad will be bundled into the witness protection programme with a whole new identity?  Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life.

I'm not saying that's a good thing, or that's how it should be. I'm just observing that I cannot imagine it being any other way.

[jambutty]

How many times can you continue to write the same sentence, over and over again.

As often as a jury of your peers finds reasonable doubt.

That's how democracy works.

Better the prick goes free and to Gaetz than to become a martyr.

[AndyInVA]

1. The gun was illegally obtained by him as a minor but it was in Kenosha all the time held by his sisters' boyfriend who legally posessed the firearm. Rittenhouse frequently travelled 20 miles across the state line, but he was not trafficking the weapon.
2. As far as I know, the AR-15 is a semi-automatic weapon?
3. What proof do you have that Rittenhouse was/is a neo-nazi? I know he was bloody stupid to show up there but it's the US, they have too many guns and it leads to bad chain reactions.
4. My belief on his intent doesn't matter, the question is, was it self-defence under the jurisdiction the defendant was trialled in relation to standards required to secure a conviction on murder one. Chauvin was rightfully convicted of a lower-tier murder charge, even his case didn't rise to the premeditation necessary to even seek a first-degree conviction. The Minnesota Department of Justice knew what they were doing, unlike these prosecutors.
5. Had the prosecution sought a winnable case: manslaughter 2 or 3 on Rosenbaum, he could've easily had a felony conviction right now.

Thank you. It's nice to see what appears to be an educated answer that is easy to understand. Even if we don't agree with it.

I'm not sure I agree with you that he had zero intention of harming anyone. Thats a stretch for me. He a young kid who seeking adventure picks up a firearm and heads out to situation full of violence and drama. My gut feeling is that he was itching to use it.

[rafathegaffa83]

Fucking shambles. The Wild West had stronger gun control policies and laws.

[Linudden]

Thank you. It's nice to see what appears to be an educated answer that is easy to understand. Even if we don't agree with it.

I'm not sure I agree with you that he had zero intention of harming anyone. Thats a stretch for me. He a young kid who seeking adventure picks up a firearm and heads out to situation full of violence and drama. My gut feeling is that he was itching to use it.

My view is that he didn't intend to, but didn't exactly shy away from being a 'wild west movie vigilante' if the situation arose. That's why I give him the benefit of the doubt in this, but at the same time acknowledge that he fished in some shady waters.

Appreciate it by the way, honest good-faith disagreement is always how it should be

[AndyInVA]

It's open season on protestors, bring your weapons and just declare you felt threatened. You know you the person with a big ass gun, who had no reason to be there. Watch how this leads to an escalation of violence.

Thats what bothers me too. Open season on bringing your firearm to any public event in public space, including riots. This is bound to incite every impressionable 18-25 year old wanting adventure to head for the nearest unrest fully tooled up.

It is ridiculous that this country wants to pretty much promote having firearms in public with no consequences.

[stevensr123]

It's open season on protestors, bring your weapons and just declare you felt threatened. You know you the person with a big ass gun, who had no reason to be there. Watch how this leads to an escalation of violence.

The right wing are going to lap this up and treat this piece of shit as a hero. America is broken and the lunatics are running the asylum.

it wasn’t the fact he just felt threatened, he was running away and then was hit in the head by a skate board, kicked in the head, and then had a gun pointed at his head.

Did people here even watch the trial? Or just grab the media narrative?

In an American context, it was clear he as going to get off with it - although it’s a completely fucked society when you can just walk around with an gun.

[Chakan]

I'm presuming this lad will be bundled into the witness protection programme with a whole new identity?  Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life.

I'm not saying that's a good thing, or that's how it should be. I'm just observing that I cannot imagine it being any other way.

Hahah you're fucking joking mate right? He'll be hailed as a hero of the right and paraded around all the networks and dine off this for a good 10-20 years at least.

He'll likely go into politics.

The NRA will make him their spokesperson.