Author Topic: The Anfield Wrap  (Read 3300702 times)

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26400 on: December 9, 2021, 04:09:32 pm »
It’s always the same and a drum I’ve been banging for a while.

Not many teams went “weaker” than us this week in terms of changes.
Maybe, and this is something Neil's talked about previously, is that things like CL appearances, goals, stadiums played in, teams played against are really important to players. Personal goals and targets etc.

Rest me for the domestic cups, even the odd PL game, but I want to play in the CL, the Super Cup, The World Club etc. I'm sure many players must think like that.


Online Alan_X

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26401 on: December 9, 2021, 04:19:35 pm »
What Neil was saying is that Mo has never played in the 14th game of the season, which is the midweek PL fixture in late November, it just happened to be Everton this year

tying in your "no such thing as game rest "comment with the  fitness and conditioning experts knowing more than the layman why do Managers including klopp rest players?

I don't understand. Mo played in the 14th Premier League game (Southampton 4-0). He didn't start the 14th league game last season (7-0 Palace) but started the 14th game in 2019-20 (2-1 Brighton). He started the 14th game in 2018-19 (1-0 Everton). He didn't start the 17-18 3-0 win against Stoke.

So since he joined in 2017 he hasn't started the 14th league game twice out of five fixtures. And they weren't all midweek fixtures in November. And thene there's the fact that Mo's body wouldn't know the difference between Premier League games and League Cup or Champions League games so the 14th League game could be any number of games into the season/pre-season.

You seemed to be suggesting that a 'game rest' was somehow transferable and instead of taking the rest before the Everton game (which didn't actually happen) it could be taken after the Everton game against Milan.

Klopp rests players according to the monitoring his sports scientists do on each individual player's condition throughout the season. If the player is in the 'red zone' they will rest them. They don't sit down at the start of the season and say 'Mo won't start the 14th game'. We know that because the evidence is that has Mo started the 14th game three out of five seasons he's been here.

If I didn't have a job it would be fascinating to look at it in more detail ad see if there are any patterns but even if I did it would still be meaningless without the details the club have.

How do you tell the difference between causation and coincidence?

How do you rule out confirmation bias without full information?

How do you account for changes that result from injury rather than condition? What is the impact of injuries to the rest of the squad? Mo had his season disrupted in 19-20 because of a shithouse tackle by Choudhury in the Leicester game. That was game eight and Salah was subbed before the end in seven or eight games afterwards.

What the sports scientists will be doing is complicated and data driven. It's the difference between taking a high end Mercedes to be plugged in to the computer and having gigabytes of data analysed and taking it to the garage in the railway arches that specialises in dodgy MOTs.
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26402 on: December 9, 2021, 04:32:21 pm »
I feel exactly the same.
I think the time to worry would be if we supported a club that did not believe in Sports Science, or even worse where the sports scientists were routinely ignored by the coaching staff who played players against advice.

It's like the numbskull pundits who say shit like "If he's fit enough to be on the bench, he's fit enough to start..."
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26403 on: December 9, 2021, 05:35:49 pm »
It's hard not to question the arrogance of some posters who think they know better than the players, management team and medical staff.

These are people operating in a professional capacity on a day to day basis but incredibly because you have very little understanding of how they operate , you aren't willing to accept that may be they are far better placed to make these decisions using wholly justifiable rationale that none of us are privy to.

Social media awash with this nonsense too. It's incredible really.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26404 on: December 9, 2021, 05:45:27 pm »
I know we've gone deep into the weeds on this one but I'd say that The Anfield Wrap's general level of comment and analysis is way above the level of most social media and a lot the 'professional' punditry.
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Offline On Axis

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26405 on: December 9, 2021, 05:48:26 pm »
I know we've gone deep into the weeds on this one but I'd say that The Anfield Wrap's general level of comment and analysis is way above the level of most social media and a lot the 'professional' punditry.
I forget when it happened, but didn't Gary Neville interview Neil before a big match and was astounded by his analysis?

Edit: here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52iE8MyyvFo

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26406 on: December 9, 2021, 05:49:08 pm »


If I have got neils comments wrong and its caused an unnecessary distraction I apologise,


our 14th league game was Everton

13th   Saints
14th  Everton
15th  Wolves


trying to recall better what he said but along the lines of hes never played this corresponding fixture

as hes played at goodison before he must gave meant the gameweek and not the team. 
 

Quote
Klopp rests players according to the monitoring his sports scientists do on each individual player's condition throughout the season. If the player is in the 'red zone' they will rest them. They don't sit down at the start of the season and say 'Mo won't start the 14th game'. We know that because the evidence is that has Mo started the 14th game three out of five seasons he's been here.

so how do players get in the red zone if its not by playing too many games? 

IF as I perhaps wrongly presumed, Mo does get a rest in a midweek game in November. and I rightly or wrongly assumed there was a pattern. Perhaps the experts have identified this requirement, so it wouldnt be unreasonable to think they would shift it a week to a less important game
however if Ive got Neil wrong then its all irrelevant

Quote
How do you account for changes that result from injury rather than condition? What is the impact of injuries to the rest of the squad? Mo had his season disrupted in 19-20 because of a shithouse tackle by Choudhury in the Leicester game. That was game eight and Salah was subbed before the end in seven or eight games afterwards.
Quote

Ive not accounted for it or mentioned it, but players get rested who are not recovering from injury

Quote
competitive performance is generally unaffected in professional players competing in a minimum of 75 min play across successive matches played over a short time period (e.g. two matches in a single week), potentially questioning the real-world need for monitoring


If successive matches played over a short time, doesnt push players into the red zone then can I presume its cumulative over longer periods?

If thats the case and the red zone can be avoided with rest then wasnt Milan a good game to provide some rest, dis regarding the legitimate argument that it was better for the younger players to have him there?














« Last Edit: December 9, 2021, 05:50:53 pm by Kenny's Jacket »
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Wabaloolah

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26407 on: December 9, 2021, 05:57:45 pm »
Don't forget that Sadio and Mo had the Summer off whilst the other players were playing in different International tournaments around the globe so are likely fresher than the likes of Jota and Hendo who were rested
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


If anyone is going to put a few fingers deep into my arse it's going to be me.

Online Alan_X

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26408 on: December 9, 2021, 06:04:26 pm »
...however if Ive got Neil wrong then its all irrelevant...

Not really mate. It raised some interesting questions.

I haven't answered the rest of your questions because as I keep saying, I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to the actual sports science.

What I do know is how difficult it is for a lay person to understand something that is extremely complex and takes years of training and expertise.

« Last Edit: December 9, 2021, 06:08:08 pm by Alan_X »
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
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Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26409 on: December 9, 2021, 06:37:27 pm »
I forget when it happened, but didn't Gary Neville interview Neil before a big match and was astounded by his analysis?

Edit: here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52iE8MyyvFo

Wolves away on a Friday night?

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26410 on: December 9, 2021, 06:41:21 pm »
Wolves away on a Friday night?

Yeah, just before Christmas, think it was mad Friday
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Mactavish

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26411 on: December 9, 2021, 06:47:49 pm »
I forget when it happened, but didn't Gary Neville interview Neil before a big match and was astounded by his analysis?

Edit: here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52iE8MyyvFo

And probably a bit astounded by the speed the analysis came at him :)

Our Neil is the original TAW OG and I love how, when he goes on one, he sounds like he's trying to win a rap battle as he can talk so fucking fast

Offline John C

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26412 on: December 10, 2021, 09:39:09 am »
Neil's email yesterday about Covid grasped what a frigging mess we may face didn't it.

It's possible a lot of sceptic match-goers may even be oblivious about the situation.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26413 on: December 10, 2021, 10:11:37 am »
He makes a great point about AFCON as well. It might seem like a plus if it's postponed in January because of COVID but it won't go away.
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26414 on: December 10, 2021, 10:41:33 am »
Is there a problem with the App?

it keeps closing as soon as I open it

Ive got an i-phone
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline red_Mark1980

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26415 on: December 10, 2021, 10:45:14 am »
Is there a problem with the App?

it keeps closing as soon as I open it

Ive got an i-phone

Yeah they've said they are trying to resolve it

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26416 on: December 10, 2021, 10:47:33 am »
Working fine for me on Android, just listening to a pod now.
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26417 on: December 10, 2021, 10:52:33 am »
Yeah they've said they are trying to resolve it

thanks Mark
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Gods_Left_Boot

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26418 on: December 10, 2021, 10:58:17 am »
Working fine for me on Android, just listening to a pod now.
September 12, 2012:Truth today, justice tomorrow.

Oliver Kay ‏@OliverKayTimes
Those who've campaigned for the truth on Hillsborough were once a suppressed minority. Now the minority are those left clinging to the lies.

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Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26419 on: December 10, 2021, 10:59:25 am »
Is there a problem with the App?

it keeps closing as soon as I open it

Ive got an i-phone

Same for me Kenneth.

I can listen to the free shows through other podcast providers for the time being.

Offline kavah

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26420 on: December 10, 2021, 01:18:35 pm »
Is there a problem with the App?

it keeps closing as soon as I open it

Ive got an i-phone

Thanks for that. Thought it was my phone which has been playing up.


Offline PaulD

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26421 on: December 10, 2021, 02:37:20 pm »
same problem for me

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26422 on: December 10, 2021, 03:02:12 pm »
Same for me Kenneth.

I can listen to the free shows through other podcast providers for the time being.
'

cheers Nicholas, just noticed theres a new free show on spotify

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline the 92A

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26423 on: December 10, 2021, 09:17:06 pm »
Reinstalled the app about 5 times last night, then just got the we're having problems email. Relief, beginning to think my old iPhone 6 had finally ran out of steam only filled it with water last week need it to last till 14 at least
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26424 on: December 10, 2021, 09:23:37 pm »
They're publishing the usually-paywalled episodes on the free feed today due to the issues. https://twitter.com/Knox_Harrington/status/1469407676014768128?s=20

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26425 on: December 11, 2021, 12:34:09 am »
Is this anything to do with Team Talk not being on iTunes yet?

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26426 on: December 13, 2021, 12:55:15 pm »
Hi lads, any chance of a 'live' on the most exquisitely embarrassing UEFA mess at 2 ?

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26427 on: December 13, 2021, 01:43:28 pm »
Hi lads, any chance of a 'live' on the most exquisitely embarrassing UEFA mess at 2 ?

They put a brief video up. Neil's made the point that a Monday is usually very busy so when shit like this happens on the fly they don't really have the time to pivot. I'm sure they'll cover it down the line

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26428 on: December 13, 2021, 02:48:40 pm »
They put a brief video up. Neil's made the point that a Monday is usually very busy so when shit like this happens on the fly they don't really have the time to pivot. I'm sure they'll cover it down the line

Today has been chaos, but I think you're all going to get exactly what you need 😂

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26429 on: December 13, 2021, 02:54:01 pm »
Today has been chaos, but I think you're all going to get exactly what you need 😂



I don't doubt it Andy. I felt for Neil on the videos.  ;D

I did enjoy Neil and Gibbo riffing about how they'd come out and start off if they'd messed the draw up

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26430 on: December 13, 2021, 02:55:37 pm »
Today has been chaos, but I think you're all going to get exactly what you need 😂

not really I wanted Benfica
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26431 on: December 13, 2021, 02:56:18 pm »
Today has been chaos, but I think you're all going to get exactly what you need 😂

Excellento. The UEFA moment of the season had to be marked.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26432 on: December 13, 2021, 05:11:27 pm »
Hi lads, any chance of a 'live' on the most exquisitely embarrassing UEFA mess at 2 ?

Gibbo and Neil went live around 2 for the draw mate - on our Youtube channel to watch back!

Beginning of the free show also altered 😅

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26433 on: December 14, 2021, 11:32:38 am »
Really enjoyed Neil on Second Captains.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26434 on: December 14, 2021, 11:59:04 am »
Really enjoyed Neil on Second Captains.

cheers Ill give that a lesson.

Im looking for more podcasts at the moment
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26435 on: December 14, 2021, 12:31:57 pm »
^ right, same here. nice one

Offline Fitzy.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26436 on: December 14, 2021, 12:48:19 pm »
Second Captains is a staple of mine. It's generally excellent.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26437 on: December 14, 2021, 01:09:41 pm »
Great to hear Neil on Second Captains also, great contributor even in a non-LFC-centric context.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26438 on: December 15, 2021, 11:12:17 am »
Nice to hear Mike Girling again!

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #26439 on: December 15, 2021, 03:21:46 pm »
Really enjoyed Neil on Second Captains.

Very good as usual although he's inherited the 'don't get me wrong' disease from Ian Ryan ... once you've heard it you can't unhear it... you're welcome ..