Topic: Man City - cheating bastards rumbled

[Samie]

Can I ask - all these offences stop in 2018 right? Is that because the investigation started there and didn't continue into the next 5 years? Because all this chat about us picking up titles... we'd only get 13/14 presumably?

Nope, they're also looking beyond 2018.

[CowboyKangaroo]

Can I ask - all these offences stop in 2018 right? Is that because the investigation started there and didn't continue into the next 5 years? Because all this chat about us picking up titles... we'd only get 13/14 presumably?

The alleged breaches stop in December of 2018. Depending on the nature of the breaches in that period it seems likely that the 2018/19 season would be in scope.

(Also worth noting as others have said - that's when City stopped co-operating - there may still be further breaches from beyond that period)

[MH41]

Also, if we hadn't gone all out in the league, having to win every game, we might have been able to rest players for the CL final.

It's similar in athletics. Clean  athletes try to keep up with dopers, try to increase training loads, their body cannot cope with the load without doping. They break down and pick up injuries.
Sounds familiar......

[rocco]

Not hugely surprising, but also of extreme relevance is W80:

In the exercise of their powers under this Section of these Rules, a Commission or an Appeal Board shall not be bound by judicial rules governing the admissibility of evidence. Instead, facts relating to a breach of these Rules may be established by any reliable means.

This means that leaked documents are highly likely to be admissible.

Interesting

[CowboyKangaroo]

Nope, they're also looking beyond 2018.

They are looking, but those are the cooperation breaches, and whilst they may warrant further punishment down the line, it seems remote that titles would be taken away solely on the back of those breaches.

[Samie]

The alleged breaches stop in December of 2018. Depending on the nature of the breaches in that period it seems likely that the 2018/19 season would be in scope.

(Also worth noting as others have said - that's when City stopped co-operating - there may still be further breaches from beyond that period)

The Premier League will also be investigating Man City’s seasons from December 2018 to now.  See table above. 

[rob1966]

[4pool]

I blame the FA for the upcoming rise in fuel prices. 

[edeyj]

For the sake of the game I really hope this sticks and City get a hefty punishment (not just a slap on the wrists).

If they get away with then I think we can all wave goodbye to a competitive league based on honest club dealings.

[CowboyKangaroo]

The Premier League will also be investigating Man City’s seasons from December 2018 to now.  See table above. 

See my response above.

[Barneylfc∗]

There has been lots of tinhat posts about this investigation on this forum saying things along the lines of 'nothing will come of it which is why it's been so long' and accusing the PL of a cover up or whatever. Have people admitted they were wrong?

Can I ask - all these offences stop in 2018 right? Is that because the investigation started there and didn't continue into the next 5 years? Because all this chat about us picking up titles... we'd only get 13/14 presumably?

As yet they aren't wrong. Nothing has happened beyond them being charged.

[JC the Messiah]

There is/was a thread on here about who people would want to win the league this season out of City and Arsenal.  Pretty much everyone said Arsenal - but if this investigation is still going on, I'd want City to win by a few points.  Would hammer the point home a bit more, don't you think?

[Egyptian36]

If the PL didn't believe these would stick, they wouldn't have charged them. UEFA had enough proof to find them guilty and ban them for 2 years, it was the time barred evidence that got them off. The PL will have better than UEFA had.

Even so it will be nothing City will care about much. What we need is them not being able to generate fake revenue otherwise nothing will change.

[El Lobo]

There has been lots of tinhat posts about this investigation on this forum saying things along the lines of 'nothing will come of it which is why it's been so long' and accusing the PL of a cover up or whatever. Have people admitted they were wrong?

Can I ask - all these offences stop in 2018 right? Is that because the investigation started there and didn't continue into the next 5 years? Because all this chat about us picking up titles... we'd only get 13/14 presumably?

Its got to sting

[jillcwhomever]

It's been a long day, I've only just seen that Abu Dhabi have been charged with something but I don't know what exactly. Can anyone give a very short nutshell account of what's happened and if there are any likely punishments being mentioned? It would take me a week to catch up with this thread.

Thanks. 😊👍

It’s the biggest breach the Premiership has faced and people are openly saying they should face relegation if found guilty. I recommend reading a Miguel Delaney piece on it. It’s in the Independent.

[Son of Spion]

Thanks, Barney, Samie and Lionel. Much appreciated.

It looks like it's all catching up with them now. Let's hope it sticks this time.


Edit: Jill too. 😊👍  The thread is moving so fast.

[rawcusk8]

Let's concentrate on whether anything will actually stick first, then we can discuss suitable punishments. My bet is that it won't.

There's not a fucking chance these get relegated or get titles taken off them.

Agree with you, can’t see the twats getting anything other than a fine which is likely to be around £25k. Everyone has know for ages that these cheating bastards were upto no good yet they were allowed to continue in their ways, I really hope they crash and burn and go back to being that shite yo-yo club that nobody gave a fuck about.

[4pool]

There is/was a thread on here about who people would want to win the league this season out of City and Arsenal.  Pretty much everyone said Arsenal - but if this investigation is still going on, I'd want City to win by a few points.  Would hammer the point home a bit more, don't you think?

Don't agree. This will hang over Citys head this season regardless of if they finish top or not.

[TheMissionary]

I'm guessing the FLs 72 clubs would vote on whether to admit them as a member.

Reckon the PL clubs would vote to expel, especially if it meant 1 club os saved from relegation that season!

Could be the only way Everton stay up!

[rob1966]

Even so it will be nothing City will care about much. What we need is them not being able to generate fake revenue otherwise nothing will change.

That's what the 2018 to now investigations should be able to pick up on. Companies that don't exist paying millions in sponsorship for a start

[TipTopKop]

Just think how different the mood would have been among the fans and especially the players going into the CL final -and even this season- had we not missed out on the league last season.

Horrible operation and whatever they punish them with it's not going to reverse the negative domino effect their financial doping has had on our fortunes.

[ScouserAtHeart]

I bet the Newcastle fans are shitting bricks

[JC the Messiah]

Don't agree. This will hang over Citys head this season regardless of if they finish top or not.

They\ll be an uproar to award the title to Arsenal. Which should be the case.  What about the other times City finished top...?

[Eeyore]

Even so it will be nothing City will care about much. What we need is them not being able to generate fake revenue otherwise nothing will change.

They actually made a profit in the transfer market this season whilst recruiting dross like Akanji, Gomez and Phillips. I would say this investigation has already had an impact.

[Barneylfc∗]

They\ll be an uproar to award the title to Arsenal. Which should be the case.  What about the other times City finished top...?

Is a decision before the end of this season realistic? I can't remember how long it took for the UEFA charges to be binned after they were announced.

From what they have said on Sky, it could be ages before there are any sanctions announced, if any at all.

[Terry de Niro]

All the other clubs should get-together and form another league, and fuck the sportwashing c*nts off.

[lfc_col]

Don't agree. This will hang over Citys head this season regardless of if they finish top or not.

Exactly they cant get away from this now

[Divock]

Delighted that the PL are finally taking action over this. One hundred separate charges is huge and, for the good of the PL's brand, something needs to come of this. Otherwise, the rubber stamped template will be there for the likes of Newcastle and Chelsea.

The "limitation period" excuse from CAS was a flimsy cop out. Luckily there doesn't seem to be a limitation period in the PL's rules. Even if there was, English limitation periods operate differently in cases of fraud / concealment (which is effectively what we're dealing with when it comes to Manchester City): the clock only starts ticking from when the cause of action became apparent, not from when the offending act(s) was committed - otherwise, the limitation rules effectively reward somebody for being a good fraudster. I couldn't understand why there didn't seem to be a similar provision built into whatever limitation rules CAS used.   

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58/section/32

[ShatnersBassoon]

im a bit ignorant on the legislative power of each organisation. But if they were kicked out, is the most it could be down to the championship? If this is a purely premier league investigation/ process?

or could the PL/EFL punt them further down the ladder? Hypothetically speaking, I know this is unprecedented.

[lfc79]

Question

Murray Rosen KC Picks the 3 man panel and also picks the new 3 man appeal panel who’s decision is final

Who ? Decides the punishment based on a guilty verdict from the 3 man panel .

If it goes to arbitration then each party selects 1 arbitrator  who must be a "Suitably Qualified Person" 10 year + solicitor or barrister independent of the party and the 2 of them select the third.

[Eeyore]

All the other clubs should get-together and form another league, and fuck the sportwashing c*nts off.

I am not sure they would have to. The Premier League is owned and run by the 20 members of the Premier League. If City are found guilty of 114 breaches of the rules I am not sure how they could pass the fit and proper owners test.

A simple vote with 14 members requiring the fit and proper owners test to be beefed up could see them thrown out. There have already been some changes to the FFP rules that haven't been widely reported.

[CowboyKangaroo]

Delighted that the PL are finally taking action over this. One hundred separate charges is huge and, for the good of the PL's brand, something needs to come of this. Otherwise, the rubber stamped template will be there for the likes of Newcastle and Chelsea.

The "limitation period" excuse from CAS was a flimsy cop out. Luckily there doesn't seem to be a limitation period in the PL's rules. Even if there was, English limitation periods operate differently in cases of fraud / concealment (which is effectively what we're dealing with when it comes to Manchester City): the clock only starts ticking from when the cause of action became apparent, not from when the offending act(s) was committed - otherwise, the limitation rules effectively reward somebody for being a good fraudster. I couldn't understand why there didn't seem to be a similar provision built into whatever limitation rules CAS used.   

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58/section/32

Limitation periods extension in the event of concealed facts exists in Swiss law too. However, CAS is quasi-judicial body so is not bound by legal doctrines. However, as they had discretion to consider the period extended in any event it was truly bizarre they did not elect to (particularly as they punished City for not disclosing documents in any event)

[Draex]

We now go live to Todd Boehly reading the news that financial doping is going to be fully investigated..

[MonsLibpool]

im a bit ignorant on the legislative power of each organisation. But if they were kicked out, is the most it could be down to the championship? If this is a purely premier league investigation/ process?

or could the PL/EFL punt them further down the ladder? Hypothetically speaking, I know this is unprecedented.

It'd be further down.

[KevLFC]

They will just get a fine/transfer embargo. Loads on here seem to think they should give their titles away too. I don't think that will happen.

[Eeyore]

Is a decision before the end of this season realistic? I can't remember how long it took for the UEFA charges to be binned after they were announced.

From what they have said on Sky, it could be ages before there are any sanctions announced, if any at all.

I think what is being missed here is that City have already used up some of its available legal challenges. One case has already gone as far as the Court of appeal.

[rob1966]

They will just get a fine/transfer embargo. Loads on here seem to think they should give their titles away too. I don't think that will happen.

Not with 114 charges they won't, its too huge to be settled with a poxy fine and I doubt the rest of the PL, bar two, will be happy with them being let off with a fine. The PL risks the League being torn apart and the big clubs leaving and forming a suoer league or going back to the EFL and taking all the money with us.

[In the Name of Klopp]

The Super League has moved a very big step forward today I fear.

If the Premier League penalise City to such an extent they could trigger a legal time bomb fiscally for them and City.

If they don't, they risk their two biggest assets - at the very least - walking away.

Have you read the Euro Super League proposed FFP rules? Man City would never could have cheated themselves to multiple titles in that league. Why do you think City and Roman's Chelsea were first to pull out?

[Samie]

They will just get a fine/transfer embargo. Loads on here seem to think they should give their titles away too. I don't think that will happen.

On what planet do you think 114 breaches of rules over a decade gets you only a fine?

[CowboyKangaroo]

On what planet do you think 114 breaches of rules over a decade gets you only a fine?

2 breaches got a year long transfer ban