Author Topic: The Klopp Template  (Read 1070663 times)

Offline Roger Federer

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #200 on: February 28, 2018, 08:08:52 am »
Alonso wouldn’t work in this team the way we press imo.
I love Alonso, but think this is correct. He’s too slow to move up and down the pitch as much as Klopp wants us to do.

On the other hand he’s so good that maybe Klopp would tinker with the system a bit to get it to work (the even slower Sahin was an important player at Dortmund after all), but Alonso likely isn’t an ideal Klopp midfielder. Jorginho seems to be closer though, as he’s more mobile and used to pressing at his current club.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #201 on: February 28, 2018, 10:57:27 am »
I love Alonso, but think this is correct. He’s too slow to move up and down the pitch as much as Klopp wants us to do.

On the other hand he’s so good that maybe Klopp would tinker with the system a bit to get it to work (the even slower Sahin was an important player at Dortmund after all), but Alonso likely isn’t an ideal Klopp midfielder. Jorginho seems to be closer though, as he’s more mobile and used to pressing at his current club.

While he may not have been the quickest of midfielders, Alonso was no slouch and was the metronome to the best side Liverpool has seen since 1990, Real Madrid and Bayern. For Harley to say he would not work in a Klopp side is like saying a legendary classical musician could not make our heavy metal football even better. Alonso's addition surely would improve our pressing as when teams cough up the ball he be in an ideal position to get the killer blows in. His position in the park allowed him to see all and that is why he probably had the highest amount of assists to an assist & wee block tackles that Hamann would have been proud of. Anyhoo have a look at Alonso goals for the club and tell me he couldnt play in a Klopp side.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 11:41:28 am by fowlermagic »
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Offline Schmidt

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #202 on: February 28, 2018, 11:23:45 am »
What's the source of the Jorginho rumour?

While he may not have been the quickest of midfielders, Alonso was no slouch and was the metronome to the best side Liverpool has seen since 1990, Real Madrid and Bayern. For Harley to say Alonso would not work in a Klopp side is like saying a world class chef could not make a fast food restaurant even better. His position in the park allowed him to see all and that is why he probably had the highest amount of assists to an assist & wee block tackles that Hamann would have been proud of. Anyhoo have a look at Alonso goals for the club and tell me he couldnt play in a Klopp side.

Not sure that I like the idea of this Liverpool team being compared to a fast food restaurant! I agree on Alonso fitting though, as long as the team functions as a unit his pace wouldn't have been an issue anyway as the whole group is supposed to stay quite compact, so the space he'd ideally need to control wouldn't ever be huge.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #203 on: February 28, 2018, 11:26:40 am »
While he may not have been the quickest of midfielders, Alonso was no slouch and was the metronome to the best side Liverpool has seen since 1990, Real Madrid and Bayern. For Harley to say Alonso would not work in a Klopp side is like saying a world class chef could not make a fast food restaurant even better. His position in the park allowed him to see all and that is why he probably had the highest amount of assists to an assist & wee block tackles that Hamann would have been proud of. Anyhoo have a look at Alonso goals for the club and tell me he couldnt play in a Klopp side.

Sooo......Klopps team is KFC in this analogy?  ???
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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #204 on: February 28, 2018, 11:34:19 am »
I should edit that as did not mean any reference to a KFC when it comes to our team. The internet warriors will soon come a hunting ;) Anyway to discount Alonso when he had the speed in mind to see things others would never cop on to would always keep him a step ahead of 99% of the footballers out there.
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Offline Agent99

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #205 on: February 28, 2018, 02:27:42 pm »
What's the source of the Jorginho rumour?
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #206 on: February 28, 2018, 08:29:51 pm »
While he may not have been the quickest of midfielders, Alonso was no slouch and was the metronome to the best side Liverpool has seen since 1990, Real Madrid and Bayern. For Harley to say he would not work in a Klopp side is like saying a legendary classical musician could not make our heavy metal football even better.
Both this and the fast food analogy are perfect, actually. What exactly would a world class chef add to a fast food restaurant? Would they be able to work in that system? Flip a burger quicker? Or would they just want to add their own spin on the Big Mac and get pissed off that they weren't allowed to?

It's like that even with the band. Do you think The Doors would sound better or worse with Jimi Hendrix' solos all over them? Or would he have played to his full potential if having to balance his sound with that of Rayman Zerrick and Jim Morrison?

There's even a real life example of this - Lemmy of Motorhead used to play for Hawkwind. Both he and they were happier and more successful without the other.

As our system stands, with a '1' at the base rather than a '2', Alonso wouldn't work, or would be a bit part player. To not be, we'd need a '2' at the base, and if we had that would it work having Firmino dropping deeper? Or would we need a 'proper' number 9? And if we had that, with Bobby in behind, that could work, but how would that affect Mane and Salah? Would they have to play more like traditional wingers?

Alonso was an amazing player but I'd be astonished if Klopp bought someone like him and played him how he plays Henderson. If he does get Jorginho for that role then, at the very least, I suspect the latter is a lot quicker than Alonso and able to cover a lot more ground - indeed his tackles and interceptions stats would seem to suggest that.
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Offline princeoftherocks

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #207 on: February 28, 2018, 08:47:05 pm »
I bet the template was broken when Klopp saw what Firmino, Salah and Mane could do. 

 
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #208 on: February 28, 2018, 08:49:36 pm »
I bet the template was broken when Klopp saw what Firmino, Salah and Mane could do.

It's the same template. Only the start positions have changed.
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Offline princeoftherocks

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #209 on: February 28, 2018, 08:54:45 pm »
It's the same template. Only the start positions have changed.

Do you not think Klopp is still learning?  I'm not trying to be awkward but, are you saying that he's confident that he has a system that can't be improved on?
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #210 on: February 28, 2018, 08:55:21 pm »
Xabi Alonso’s interceptions and tackles in 2016/17 - at 36 years of age - were higher than Henderson’s this season, the so called possession adjusted stats were incredible: https://mobile.twitter.com/fussballradars/status/865971632615170048 (I can’t post images).

I said myself that I don’t think he’s Klopp’s ideal number 6, as he seems to want quicker midfielders, but clearly still a bit underrated by some on here it seems. Make sure you have quick players around him (Boateng, Vidal, Thiago - here VVD, Keita, Oxlade perhaps) and he’d still be of use for any team, certainly at his peak. Magnificent footballer.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 08:59:42 pm by Roger Federer »

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #211 on: February 28, 2018, 08:58:47 pm »
I don’t think anyone is underrating Xabi. He’s probably my favourite player ever. But he was definitely at his best with players around him.

Having him in a lone number six, where we have a team that wants to play the whole game in transitions wouldn’t get the best out of him.
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #212 on: February 28, 2018, 09:03:38 pm »
I agree with the transition part, as I said before, but he was the deep, lone, number 6 for managers like Mourinho, Ancelotti, and Guardiola. It was only Rafa (and Del Bosque for Spain) who played him in a midfield two. All the others used him deep, with two midfielders ahead of him.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #213 on: February 28, 2018, 09:05:41 pm »
Both this and the fast food analogy are perfect, actually. What exactly would a world class chef add to a fast food restaurant? Would they be able to work in that system? Flip a burger quicker? Or would they just want to add their own spin on the Big Mac and get pissed off that they weren't allowed to?

It's like that even with the band. Do you think The Doors would sound better or worse with Jimi Hendrix' solos all over them? Or would he have played to his full potential if having to balance his sound with that of Rayman Zerrick and Jim Morrison?
I like the analogies, but I actually think The Doors would have been much improved with Jimi Hendrix.

Facetious nitpicking aside, I agree with the thrust of your point. I think Alonso could have worked in this side but he wouldn't have been ideal. As far as I can tell, Jorginho would be an Alonso type with added mobility. Part of me would prefer a slightly more defensive-minded No.6 but I think the upside of Jorginho is huge, and he seems to be no defensive slouch either. His vertical passing would work brilliantly in this team and he's apparently very tactically intelligent too, so might help us when we need to slow the game down. He seems to be the conductor at Napoli - everything goes through him - and I'd love to see what that type of player would do here. If we got him I'd be hugely excited about our prospects for next season.


Offline KurtVerbose

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #214 on: February 28, 2018, 09:07:06 pm »
Pep brought him to Bayern and played him. I can't imagine Jürgen not appreciating the same talent.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #215 on: February 28, 2018, 09:19:55 pm »
Do you not think Klopp is still learning?  I'm not trying to be awkward but, are you saying that he's confident that he has a system that can't be improved on?

I'm not saying that, no. I'm saying every manager, coach and player has an idea of how they think the game should be played. And it doesn't focus on formations, which is the mistake observers make. It's about roles on the field, in accordance with the principles of play, tactical balance or imbalance, and technical level of player available.

What we can ascertain from Klopp's history is that he likes balanced fullbacks, a balanced central midfield (one sitting, one running), a balanced wide attack (one defensive, one attacking), and a balanced forward line (one pushing up, one playing in the hole, but also breaking the line). That's the template, and the template isn't really hugely different from one manager to the next. The only differences are whether they play with two or three central defenders, press or bunker, go direct or possess, go wide or through the middle, pass or dribble, overload or go 1v1, and a few more things.

But almost every manager has a plan they believe in.
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Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #216 on: February 28, 2018, 09:32:36 pm »
I'm not saying that, no. I'm saying every manager, coach and player has an idea of how they think the game should be played. And it doesn't focus on formations, which is the mistake observers make. It's about roles on the field, in accordance with the principles of play, tactical balance or imbalance, and technical level of player available.

What we can ascertain from Klopp's history is that he likes balanced fullbacks, a balanced central midfield (one sitting, one running), a balanced wide attack (one defensive, one attacking), and a balanced forward line (one pushing up, one playing in the hole, but also breaking the line). That's the template, and the template isn't really hugely different from one manager to the next. The only differences are whether they play with two or three central defenders, press or bunker, go direct or possess, go wide or through the middle, pass or dribble, overload or go 1v1, and a few more things.

But almost every manager has a plan they believe in.

I have opinion about the answer, but do you think he has a preference for a certain kind or roll for a keeper --- in light of faster more athletic modern game?
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Offline NHRed

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #217 on: February 28, 2018, 09:33:48 pm »
Do you not think Klopp is still learning?  I'm not trying to be awkward but, are you saying that he's confident that he has a system that can't be improved on?

I've taken PoP's point to be that Klopp's meta-scheme, if you will, his overall approach to thinking about tactics, strategy, and even roster construction, is mature and met its fullest expression so far with that Dortmund side.   The details evolve in response to available personnel, and changes made by other clubs, but the way of thinking is who Klopp is as a manager in some ways.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #218 on: February 28, 2018, 09:35:28 pm »
I have opinion about the answer, but do you think he has a preference for a certain kind or roll for a keeper --- in light of faster more athletic modern game?

I think I said in the first post - it doesn't look like Klopp puts much stock in the keeper position at all, in terms of a specific type. Weidenfeller was his keeper for years, and he wasn't particularly special in any way.
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #219 on: February 28, 2018, 10:01:08 pm »
Weidenfeller was his keeper for years, and he wasn't particularly special in any way.

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Offline Djozer

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #220 on: February 28, 2018, 10:05:00 pm »
His name also directly translates as "wideboy*," which I quite like.





*This might not be strictly true.

Offline kloppismydad

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #221 on: February 28, 2018, 11:24:43 pm »
After this summer, we'll have Klopp's template. Keeper, defence, midfield, attack.
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #222 on: March 1, 2018, 12:33:22 am »
After this summer, we'll have Klopp's template. Keeper, defence, midfield, attack.

As opposed to Fat Sam's Plate - Bacon, sausages, beans, fried tomato, double egg, 4 fried breads, 4 toasts, a white pudding, and a pint of Matheus Rose, with milk and three sugars.
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #223 on: March 1, 2018, 12:34:31 am »
As opposed to Fat Sam's Plate - Bacon, sausages, beans, fried tomato, double egg, 4 fried breads, 4 toasts, a white pudding, and a pint of Matheus Rose, with milk and three sugars.
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #224 on: March 1, 2018, 12:48:38 am »
Wait wait wait you cant have 4 fried breads and 4 toasts on a plate with Sams experience. Pretty risky id say hes more likely to stick with a Baguette strategy seen him through countless tight spots.
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Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #225 on: March 1, 2018, 01:14:37 pm »
I agree with the transition part, as I said before, but he was the deep, lone, number 6 for managers like Mourinho, Ancelotti, and Guardiola. It was only Rafa (and Del Bosque for Spain) who played him in a midfield two. All the others used him deep, with two midfielders ahead of him.

And you could argue that the only reason Del Bosque played him in a midfield 2 was because he had Busquets who was the best #6 in the world at the time. 

Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #226 on: March 1, 2018, 08:32:24 pm »
Rayman Zerrick

Sorry HBHR, you are a quality poster but please... Ray Manzarek.

I like the analogies, but I actually think The Doors would have been much improved with Jimi Hendrix.

No no no no no. Robbie Krieger was a flamenco guitarist. Not a chance in hell that Hendrix's talents would have grafted onto The Doors' sound.

For exhibit A listen to Morrison's Lament (recorded with Hendrix). Two behemoths of classic rock side by side. And it's shit.
« Last Edit: March 1, 2018, 08:37:13 pm by God's Left His Son In A Manger! »
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #227 on: March 1, 2018, 09:03:45 pm »
Sorry HBHR, you are a quality poster but please... Ray Manzarek.

No no no no no. Robbie Krieger was a flamenco guitarist. Not a chance in hell that Hendrix's talents would have grafted onto The Doors' sound.

For exhibit A listen to Morrison's Lament (recorded with Hendrix). Two behemoths of classic rock side by side. And it's shit.

So much like for this post
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #228 on: March 1, 2018, 09:25:08 pm »
Do you not think Klopp is still learning?  I'm not trying to be awkward but, are you saying that he's confident that he has a system that can't be improved on?
System and vision are different. PoP is Kore talking about vision, you're more talking about tactics. The vision is to play a high energy, high risk thunderbastard sort of game. To do that with Firmino means tweaking the tactical approach so that the 9 comes deep and the 'wingers' run into that space etc etc.

Klopp will adapt his tactics, but his vision remains the same. He's a Lemmy that will never rejoin Hawkwind. ;-)
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #229 on: March 1, 2018, 09:26:27 pm »
Sorry HBHR, you are a quality poster but please... Ray Manzarek.
No, my bad. I really should have Googled that out of respect.
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #230 on: March 1, 2018, 09:32:18 pm »
His name also directly translates as "wideboy*," which I quite like.





*This might not be strictly true.
It translates as 'Willow Feller" (or chopper if you prefer). ;)
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Offline Djozer

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #231 on: March 1, 2018, 09:37:48 pm »
Sorry HBHR, you are a quality poster but please... Ray Manzarek.

No no no no no. Robbie Krieger was a flamenco guitarist. Not a chance in hell that Hendrix's talents would have grafted onto The Doors' sound.

For exhibit A listen to Morrison's Lament (recorded with Hendrix). Two behemoths of classic rock side by side. And it's shit.
There are almost no guitar based bands that wouldn't be improved by the addition of Hendrix. Saying that, I was never very into The Doors so I'm a bit biased here. Too much noodling and pretension. Which is weird 'cos I quite like both noodling and pretension, but there you go.

Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #232 on: March 1, 2018, 09:51:48 pm »
There are almost no guitar based bands that wouldn't be improved by the addition of Hendrix. Saying that, I was never very into The Doors so I'm a bit biased here. Too much noodling and pretension. Which is weird 'cos I quite like both noodling and pretension, but there you go.

Wash your mouth out ;D
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Offline Djozer

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #233 on: March 1, 2018, 10:25:54 pm »
Wash your mouth out ;D
Will do.

In fairness, I have notoriously awful taste in music.

It translates as 'Willow Feller" (or chopper if you prefer). ;)
Reality is always so dull.

Offline elbow

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #234 on: March 1, 2018, 11:02:26 pm »
I have to say this is RAWK Gold right here. Klopp tactics, Lemmy, The Doors, Hendrix and fried bread all in the same thread.

So, Hendrix or Robby Krieger for the number 6 role?
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #235 on: March 1, 2018, 11:13:47 pm »
I have to say this is RAWK Gold right here. Klopp tactics, Lemmy, The Doors, Hendrix and fried bread all in the same thread.

So, Hendrix or Robby Krieger for the number 6 role?

Krieger. Hendrix is too free spirited to stay disciplined.
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Offline vagabond

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #236 on: March 1, 2018, 11:45:20 pm »
Krieger. Hendrix is too free spirited to stay disciplined.

Filler disagrees with this post.
Sometimes a man stands up during supper
and walks outdoors, and keeps on walking,
because of a church that stands somewhere in the East.
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Offline Bobinhood

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #237 on: March 2, 2018, 12:40:57 am »
I have to say this is RAWK Gold right here. Klopp tactics, Lemmy, The Doors, Hendrix and fried bread all in the same thread.

So, Hendrix or Robby Krieger for the number 6 role?

Jimi's gotta play it left hand, he could be special man, he could lick 'em by smiling.
Amplification does not equal truth. 

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A Ukrainian housewife to a young Russian soldier, Feb 24,2022.

Offline Keith Lard

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #238 on: March 2, 2018, 01:29:01 am »
As opposed to Fat Sam's Plate - Bacon, sausages, beans, fried tomato, double egg, 4 fried breads, 4 toasts, a white pudding, and a pint of Matheus Rose, with milk and three sugars.

Lol Matheus rose!!??? What an odd inclusion to an otherwise imaginable breakfast for Fat Sam :)
Pour yourself a drink and enjoy watching a genius in red - John Barnes || https://youtu.be/XEJfzUSH4e4

Offline elbow

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #239 on: March 2, 2018, 01:33:06 am »
Krieger. Hendrix is too free spirited to stay disciplined.

Right on. Free spirited is right, we would have to invent a new position for Jimi, the 7 and 1/2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZuFq4CfRR8
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