Topic: Harry Maguire considering his options thread

[campioni]

Michael Knighton is putting together a consortium to make a hostile bid to buy United from the Glazers. 

How long before he's doing keepie ups on the pitch in front of the Stretford End?

[SamLad]

For someone that won a lot as a player, his football knowledge is so poor.

I think most ex-players know very little more about the game than an awful lot of fans.  you assume they should be very knowledgeable, but they simply aren't and/or they are thick as 2 short planks.

[Black Bull Nova]

It must be hard being a United fan these days, going from the biggest and most successful club in the country to trailing far behind the 2 clubs you most detest in the world, especially when one of those came from nowhere and especially because they spent £1.5bn trying not to make that happen which dwarfs Liverpool's spending. That is aside from seeing their former heroes descend from their perches, Pogba, Ronaldo, Giggs, Solskjaer.....

[Black Bull Nova]

I think most ex-players know very little more about the game than an awful lot of fans.  you assume they should be very knowledgeable, but they simply aren't and/or are thick as 2 short planks.

Or


Thick as two short Neville's as they say in Bury


Mind you even Gary Neville looks bright when you stick him next to Scholesy

[afc tukrish]

Or


Thick as two short Neville's as they say in Bury


Mind you even Gary Neville looks bright when you stick him next to Scholesy

Or one short Neville Neville?

[rossipersempre]

Michael Knighton is putting together a consortium to make a hostile bid to buy United from the Glazers. 

How long before he's doing keepie ups on the pitch in front of the Stretford End?

Hostile bid? A bluebottle presents more of a hostile threat to a closed glass window.

[Son of Spion]

There seem to be two different points being conflated here.

1) Leveraged buyouts, yay or nay?

2) What are Man Utd fans protesting about?

The answer to 1) is of course nay. Leveraged buyouts are, as someone else just said, gangster capitalism. And whether or not they are applicable for businesses they certainly should not be allowed for community institutions like football clubs. I think most football fans are totally against them as a purchase and ownership model.

But

2) That's not what Man Utd fans are protesting about, though they might pretend they are. To cut out all the bollocks and get to the heart of the matter, what they are protesting about is that they aren't owned by a trillionaire regime like City are. That's the long and short of it, whatever they might pretend to claim.

I was just going to post pretty much the same thing but you beat me to it.

For me, Gerry Attrick is correct in what he has been saying, but so are the people who are pointing out the real reason most Manc fans are protesting.

I'm sure there are some very clued-up United fans who have been against the Glazer's ownership model from as soon as that model became clear and obvious. But I think they are very few and far between. I think the overwhelming majority of those stood outside Old Trafford in their branded sportswear and green and gold bought from the club shop are entitled bandwagon jumpers kicking off because they've been left behind.

Those people would be happy to have horrific ownership like the clubs formerly known as Manchester City and Newcastle United, just so long as that ownership guaranteed trophies. We never saw any of these so-called protests when they were still lifting trophies under the Glazers. We were all treated to them regaling us with "we're Man United, we do what we want."

Their fans have always been the same. Only happy when the numbers and the odds are in their favour. Only happy when they can bully. Now they've found themselves bullied by not only their biggest rivals, but also by their little neighbours, they won't be able to rest until they have the odds stacked in their favour once more, and that's why they want their own pariah state to fund them. It's nothing to do with business practice or principles.

Yes, the Glazers are shite, although far from the worst in the PL now and certainly not as bad as Hicks and Gillett were for us. But principles and business practices are really not what they are genuinely protesting about. 1% of them might be, but the other 99% are simply spitting the dummy because they've been overtaken again and they can't hack it and are looking for snookers in the shape of a nation state. To get one in, they have to get the Glazers to sell up. This is what the stamping of feet is all about.

[Jambo Power]

I think this spectacularly misses the point. Basically what you’re saying is because they can afford to pay it they should. 1 in every 6 pounds Man United have earned has been spent on having them as owners. That isn’t criminal but absolutely should be. All these signings you’re mentioning are totally and utterly irrelevant for me. If Liverpool had owners like that we would absolutely despise them, regardless of whether we got Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho.

That is exactly why they were bought, because they could and can afford to pay it easily. There is nothing criminal about it, its business. They invited attractors to the never ending honeypot and are now having the honey endlessly harvested, what did anyone really expect?

[Gaz75]

I was just going to post pretty much the same thing but you beat me to it.

For me, Gerry Attrick is correct in what he has been saying, but so are the people who are pointing out the real reason most Manc fans are protesting.

I'm sure there are some very clued-up United fans who have been against the Glazer's ownership model from as soon as that model became clear and obvious. But I think they are very few and far between. I think the overwhelming majority of those stood outside Old Trafford in their branded sportswear and green and gold bought from the club shop are entitled bandwagon jumpers kicking off because they've been left behind.

Those people would be happy to have horrific ownership like the clubs formerly known as Manchester City and Newcastle United, just so long as that ownership guaranteed trophies. We never saw any of these so-called protests when they were still lifting trophies under the Glazers. We were all treated to them regaling us with "we're Man United, we do what we want."

Their fans have always been the same. Only happy when the numbers and the odds are in their favour. Only happy when they can bully. Now they've found themselves bullied by not only their biggest rivals, but also by their little neighbours, they won't be able to rest until they have the odds stacked in their favour once more, and that's why they want their own pariah state to fund them. It's nothing to do with business practice or principles.

Yes, the Glazers are shite, although far from the worst in the PL now and certainly not as bad as Hicks and Gillett were for us. But principles and business practices are really not what they are genuinely protesting about. 1% of them might be, but the other 99% are simply spitting the dummy because they've been overtaken again and they can't hack it and are looking for snookers in the shape of a nation state. To get one in, they have to get the Glazers to sell up. This is what the stamping of feet is all about.

This.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Is this an actual question? Zero pounds should be spent financing debt an owner put on it to buy it. Leveraged buyouts should be outlawed and anybody attempting one should be doing years in prison. If somebody wanted to buy your house would you be okay with them securing their mortgage on your assets and getting you to pay for it?

This would imply Man Utd's fans owned the club, which they never did

[ScouserAtHeart]

A quick google shows they bought the club for 790 million pounds. They would realistically be valued at least 10 times that amount if you see what Chelsea went for. So what if they take 1.1 billion out of an asset that they helped grow 10 times in value?

The only fair complaint the fans have is about the state of their shit stadium, but apparently that's being addressed too.

[lamonti]

The exact truth sadly. "Sadly" because it was Liverpool's Shakespearean tragedy and Rafa was a good man with a fatal flaw. He admired adventurous football but distrusted adventurous footballers. Hence Barry in, Alonso out. The Kop knew better. We got 12 months more of Xabi. It almost worked.

Man United are in a far worse position than we were at that time though. They haven't had a 'Xabi Alonso' on their books for well over a decade. They're not getting one either. Plenty of Gareth Barrys though.

United don't have a centre mid of Gareth Barry's quality in their squad. Not even close.

[lamonti]

That is exactly why they were bought, because they could and can afford to pay it easily. There is nothing criminal about it, its business. They invited attractors to the never ending honeypot and are now having the honey endlessly harvested, what did anyone really expect?

He's saying it's immoral and should be criminal, and he's not wrong really.

But on the other hand fuck Man Utd.
"Let's really push the commercialisation everything to create financial advantage over all of our rivals."
[...]
"Now that the situation has worked out not in our favour I'm against the situation"

[Gerry Attrick]

I was just going to post pretty much the same thing but you beat me to it.

For me, Gerry Attrick is correct in what he has been saying, but so are the people who are pointing out the real reason most Manc fans are protesting.

I'm sure there are some very clued-up United fans who have been against the Glazer's ownership model from as soon as that model became clear and obvious. But I think they are very few and far between. I think the overwhelming majority of those stood outside Old Trafford in their branded sportswear and green and gold bought from the club shop are entitled bandwagon jumpers kicking off because they've been left behind.

Those people would be happy to have horrific ownership like the clubs formerly known as Manchester City and Newcastle United, just so long as that ownership guaranteed trophies. We never saw any of these so-called protests when they were still lifting trophies under the Glazers. We were all treated to them regaling us with "we're Man United, we do what we want."

Their fans have always been the same. Only happy when the numbers and the odds are in their favour. Only happy when they can bully. Now they've found themselves bullied by not only their biggest rivals, but also by their little neighbours, they won't be able to rest until they have the odds stacked in their favour once more, and that's why they want their own pariah state to fund them. It's nothing to do with business practice or principles.

Yes, the Glazers are shite, although far from the worst in the PL now and certainly not as bad as Hicks and Gillett were for us. But principles and business practices are really not what they are genuinely protesting about. 1% of them might be, but the other 99% are simply spitting the dummy because they've been overtaken again and they can't hack it and are looking for snookers in the shape of a nation state. To get one in, they have to get the Glazers to sell up. This is what the stamping of feet is all about.

Absolutely take your points and agree with them. Think it’s pretty clear where people stand on this, and quite enjoyed the debate. I will just finish by saying sometimes you can get to the right result for different reasons and this is one of those times.

As I said some posts ago them protesting because they’re shit is kind of the point also. If they hadn’t spent so much paying them off they could’ve built a new stadium as Old Trafford is run down and looking pretty shit in comparison to other big stadia across Europe. 1/10th of the cost of the Glazers ownership has been spent on infrastructure in their tenure.

Or the money could’ve been spent on buying players that could help keep them at the top. They’ve spent a stack on players but they should be able to because they make that money and even more could’ve been available if they wanted or needed it. Glazers keep employing idiots in position of influence on the footballing side and that’s another huge issue. Pissing away money, stalling commercial incomes and losing their competitive advantage.

Therefore I think anyone protesting just because they are shit are entitled to that too. When you dig into why they’ve been shit for so long the blame has to land squarely at the feet of some people and that’s the owners. Eventually they may get where they should’ve been 15 years ago; with new owners.

[ElDuderino]

Or one short Neville Neville?

Neville Neville, your son is a mess.

[Sheer Magnetism]

But the United fans aren't protesting that the club aren't spending money, they're protesting that the money is being spent badly and the club run incompetently while their stadium is falling apart. I doubt they'd be making a fuss if they had our owners, manager and backroom staff.

[thaddeus]

But the United fans aren't protesting that the club aren't spending money, they're protesting that the money is being spent badly and the club run incompetently while their stadium is falling apart. I doubt they'd be making a fuss if they had our owners, manager and backroom staff.

I think they'd still be making a fuss.  Most of our fans begrudgingly accept our position as underdogs against Man City and that we still get preyed upon by other clubs with more money that us.  Our wage bill is very generous but we won't match the extravagant wages offered elsewhere (it's probably changed a bit with Salah's new contract and some of the outgoings at Man U but last season Man U and Man City dominated the list of highest paid players in the Prem).

Man U fans would not have accepted them missing out on Timo Werner and Jadon Sancho.  They would have demanded the owners pay whatever is necessary to get the deals done.

[12C]

I remember we did the same in the late 70s (I think) when we were supposedly considering Eric Gates of Ipswich.

Ipswich were actually playing at Anfield including said Gates. The Kop let him know he wasn’t wanted
“If yer don’t want Gates clap yer hands.”
And he got subbed off. Brian Hall used to tell the tale of an Ipswich player who told him during a match he hated playing at Anfield because of the crowd. Hall used to end the tale with the line
“He got subbed off, it was the fastest he moved all game…”
I used to wonder if that was the Eric Gates game. He used to get some right stick off the Kop even before he was linked to us. Mostly for being ugly

[paulrazor]

Eric Gates was a decent player

I recall him scoring a lovely goal at the Kop end in the early 80s, lovely placed volley into the top corner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phCHOBa2MlU


about 2.50 in

[Dougle]

Neville Neville, your son is a mess.

 

[Lfc19ynwa]

Manchester United have said that anyone identified as being involved in the scuffles on Sunday will have their season tickets suspended for the rest of the season. So far 27,641 people have handed themselves in.

[SamLad]

I tell yer, that Maguire is one switched-on dude.  I don't know why he gets so much abuse, really.


https://twitter.com/thatLeroyGuy/status/1556717903868825601

[Tobelius]

I tell yer, that Maguire is one switched-on dude.  I don't know why he gets so much abuse, really.


https://twitter.com/thatLeroyGuy/status/1556717903868825601

Thinks big thoughts in that big head

[The G in Gerrard]

Manchester United have said that anyone identified as being involved in the scuffles on Sunday will have their season tickets suspended for the rest of the season. So far 27,641 people have handed themselves in.

[thaddeus]

I tell yer, that Maguire is one switched-on dude.  I don't know why he gets so much abuse, really.


https://twitter.com/thatLeroyGuy/status/1556717903868825601

He seems a bit bewildered to say the least.  Club rivalries aside, hopefully it's just him being generally a bit dopey and nothing more to it than that (a lad of his size will have headed more footballs than most!).

[Skeeve]

But

2) That's not what Man Utd fans are protesting about, though they might pretend they are. To cut out all the bollocks and get to the heart of the matter, what they are protesting about is that they aren't owned by a trillionaire regime like City are. That's the long and short of it, whatever they might pretend to claim.

Besides not being owned by an oil state, the main thing they are protesting about, if last season is anything to go by, is that we are better than them as most songs and chants at any protest were just their usual anti-scouser repertoire rather than just anti-glazer.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

The details don’t matter. My point was much simpler - that as a fanbase, Kopites were not above telling the manager exactly up which orifice he should stick the prospective signing he seemed hellbent on pursuing to replace a vastly superior midfielder and fan favourite. We might laugh at the mob vetoing ETH’s bid for Arnautovic, but I’m not a fan of hypocrisy.

As for revolting United fans, it’s not just that their noisy neighbours are dominant, or that their old enemy are back on their fucking perch, it’s not even that they’ve reverted to perennially being a bit shit and a laughing stock. Nor is it just because they’ve got back with an abusive and selfish ex who naturally wants to leave again but can’t find anyone better so continues to coerce and control, or that they’ve spent 2 months being humiliated and repeatedly rejected by the one player their new/current manager desperately wanted to work with again. Nor is it just because - despite the eye-watering transfer fees involved - they have a comically disorganised defence and cardboard midfield that would genuinely struggle in a Sunday pub league, with a cowardly feckless captain who is an embarrassment on and off the pitch.  It’s not even that they’ve spent billions to reverse backwards in the last decade and end up battling hard just for the privilege of playing Thursday night football. No no, it’s all because they’ve finally become the sum of all their worst fears…..being completely irrelevant.

Yep. "Hated, adored, never ignored" isn't working anymore. They have become irrelevant and ignored. Soon they won't be the biggest club even in their own city.

[Romford_Red]

That is exactly why they were bought, because they could and can afford to pay it easily. There is nothing criminal about it, its business. They invited attractors to the never ending honeypot and are now having the honey endlessly harvested, what did anyone really expect?

Don't be soft. Leveraged buyouts are a travesty.

I personally could not afford to buy a football club, but if I could somehow have convinced a bank to lend me the capital to buy Utd for, what was it, £500m?, I could have bout them without a bean to my name, then refinanced that loan into the club so it was their debt and not mine, then sat on that asset as it (at least) quadrupled in value to £2bn, whilst also taking dividends of over £100m in that time (not to mention being paid much much more for doing some role at the club that I don't really understand).

So essentially I could have bought the club with zero money, taken out as much as I borrowed in dividends and 'wages' and even if I sell the club on the cheap at £1.5bn, I walk away with £2bn.

£2bn from nothing.

How are people okay with this?

[Linudden]

The value of sports teams come across as a global Ponzi scheme to me. There's no way in hell interest in the teams have grown that much since 2005 or 2010 to justify the valuations of NFL, NBA or Premier League clubs. They're good at fooling investors and sponsors to overpay for the assets and once the bubble bursts it will be a financial meltdown the likes of which people have never seen before. It's kicking a can down the road until the implosion happens. Which is, once customers can't afford to pay for the insane TV packages or tickets anymore.

[MonsLibpool]

The value of sports teams come across as a global Ponzi scheme to me. There's no way in hell interest in the teams have grown that much since 2005 or 2010 to justify the valuations of NFL, NBA or Premier League clubs. They're good at fooling investors and sponsors to overpay for the assets and once the bubble bursts it will be a financial meltdown the likes of which people have never seen before. It's kicking a can down the road until the implosion happens. Which is, once customers can't afford to pay for the insane TV packages or tickets anymore.

You are right. Something has to give eventually. TV and sponsorship deals are currently being inflated by Saudi, Abu Dhabi, Qatar... The rate of spending will reach a point that income generated can't sustain.

[Terry de Niro]

Reading some of the reports from his trial it seems that Giggs is even more of a c*nt than I gave him credit for

Not trying to do a mod job, but while his trial is going on, I don't think it should be discussed on a forum, no matter what your feelings are for the c*nt.

[Linudden]

You are right. Something has to give eventually. TV and sponsorship deals are currently being inflated by Saudi, Abu Dhabi, Qatar... The rate of spending will reach a point that income generated can't sustain.

The fact that a middle market, mid-table franchise with only a semi-new stadium in the Denver Broncos went for way above 4 billion dollars shows something is insane when it comes to these valuations. It's like a billionares' playground to show off their fancy toy more than anything else. I suspect it's because of this playground aspect they're able to milk a lot of money when selling clubs/franchises these days but that definitely will grind to a halt when TV ratings flatline because people can't keep up the asking prices for those deals.

The explosion of value for teams like United, Liverpool, Chelsea et cetera are highly suspicious and probably not squeeky clean if I'm totally honest here. Arsenal would be a billion-pound investment these days after a decade of completely failing on the pitch. Add that into the mix as well. All have American owners that are really good at cooking the books. I suspect what Chelsea are doing right now is leveraged purchases of players in order to increase Forbes' valuation of the club. Basically, these billionares are mates with the owners of these valuation gossip publications and get scratched at the back... for some favours? This helps justify the high purchase price "see our asset gained a billion bucks value overnight look at us" The crooks running F1 are more or less running a similar scam with regards to the utterly fake value of the sport, which keeps team in line as they drive the actual on-track product into the ditch and leave European fans behind. US capitalism is a stinking pile of garbage. The Russian oligarchs wish they'd have as good PR departments as the American billionares have.

[Bobinhood]

How 'bout that Mcfred though! Held Brighton to 2 goals. Not bad. Less than 3 that is.

[Black Bull Nova]

The fact that a middle market, mid-table franchise with only a semi-new stadium in the Denver Broncos went for way above 4 billion dollars shows something is insane when it comes to these valuations. It's like a billionares' playground to show off their fancy toy more than anything else. I suspect it's because of this playground aspect they're able to milk a lot of money when selling clubs/franchises these days but that definitely will grind to a halt when TV ratings flatline because people can't keep up the asking prices for those deals.

The explosion of value for teams like United, Liverpool, Chelsea et cetera are highly suspicious and probably not squeeky clean if I'm totally honest here. Arsenal would be a billion-pound investment these days after a decade of completely failing on the pitch. Add that into the mix as well. All have American owners that are really good at cooking the books. I suspect what Chelsea are doing right now is leveraged purchases of players in order to increase Forbes' valuation of the club. Basically, these billionares are mates with the owners of these valuation gossip publications and get scratched at the back... for some favours? This helps justify the high purchase price "see our asset gained a billion bucks value overnight look at us" The crooks running F1 are more or less running a similar scam with regards to the utterly fake value of the sport, which keeps team in line as they drive the actual on-track product into the ditch and leave European fans behind. US capitalism is a stinking pile of garbage. The Russian oligarchs wish they'd have as good PR departments as the American billionares have.

It's not really about success, at least in the short term, they still get to see United play us (and beat us in friendlies) but it is more about marketing and image really. United, Real Madrid, Us, Barca will always carry their image however performance goes on the pitch. United have also perfected the art of buying players to aid that image. More recently Pogba, Cavani and Ronaldo but looking back Ibrahamovic, Van Persie, Berbatov, Larssen, Kagawa, Schweinsteiger, Falcao, Park, Cruyff, Dong, Forlan (even Owen) probably all had one page in their 'purchase dossier' relating to their marketability. We would not have touched any of those players at the wages they probably asked for because we don't look at worldwide marketing in quite the same way.

[Peabee]

Not trying to do a mod job, but while his trial is going on, I don't think it should be discussed on a forum, no matter what your feelings are for the c*nt.

Calling him a c*nt has nothing to do with him being guilty or not guilty.

[Mister Flip Flop]

They really seem to have a problem with having absolute cnuts playing for them don't they. Look at Giggs, Ronaldo or Greenwood, these guys are pure scum. Even as far back as George Best who was a wife beater and general wanker.

Somethings wrong at Manchester United.

[Yorkykopite]

I think the penny might be dropping. They're starting to understand that they are the second team in Manchester. They are Everton around about the year 1971.

It's a hard road back from there.

[4pool]

You are right. Something has to give eventually. TV and sponsorship deals are currently being inflated by Saudi, Abu Dhabi, Qatar... The rate of spending will reach a point that income generated can't sustain.

As someone who is the same age as King Kenny...i've read this for years, and years, and years. Before 2000 even.

Hasn't happened yet.

[Egyptian36]

The fact that a middle market, mid-table franchise with only a semi-new stadium in the Denver Broncos went for way above 4 billion dollars shows something is insane when it comes to these valuations. It's like a billionares' playground to show off their fancy toy more than anything else. I suspect it's because of this playground aspect they're able to milk a lot of money when selling clubs/franchises these days but that definitely will grind to a halt when TV ratings flatline because people can't keep up the asking prices for those deals.

The explosion of value for teams like United, Liverpool, Chelsea et cetera are highly suspicious and probably not squeeky clean if I'm totally honest here. Arsenal would be a billion-pound investment these days after a decade of completely failing on the pitch. Add that into the mix as well. All have American owners that are really good at cooking the books. I suspect what Chelsea are doing right now is leveraged purchases of players in order to increase Forbes' valuation of the club. Basically, these billionares are mates with the owners of these valuation gossip publications and get scratched at the back... for some favours? This helps justify the high purchase price "see our asset gained a billion bucks value overnight look at us" The crooks running F1 are more or less running a similar scam with regards to the utterly fake value of the sport, which keeps team in line as they drive the actual on-track product into the ditch and leave European fans behind. US capitalism is a stinking pile of garbage. The Russian oligarchs wish they'd have as good PR departments as the American billionares have.

It's because of the ridiculous money EPl clubs get. It won't last tho, football clubs will have less fans worldwide because the new young generation isn't interested in Football but more into esports. Just Google UAE or Saudi Arabia+esports and choose the news tap, they are trying to control this sector for a reason.

[Peabee]

Understand your point of view but disagree entirely. Whether it's wasted money or not it should be the clubs money to spend, not the owners.

The owners can do what they want with profits to a large degree.

If they didn’t use a LBO, they’d likely be taking even larger dividends in return for the larger investment they’d have needed to make. Especially if they took on debt themselves.

Nothing wrong with an LBO if the company is profitable. If you start outlawing financing such as LBO etc, you’ll be left with even more owners like City’s.

The problem lies in them spending lots on players yet not on infrastructure.  But I’m not sure why they shouldn’t take dividends as shareholders of a profitable business. After FSG have completed all infrastructure projects and expansions, they’ll want to see some ROI either via deals like the outside investment in FSG last year or even, say, via dividends. They’re not waiving dividends out of the kindness of their hearts... they just see more value currently in reinvesting profits in the training complex and the Anfield Expansion etc.