Topic: RAWK IT professionals - any career advice?

[Kashinoda]

Alright guys,

I know there's some IT professionals on here and at the moment I'm in a massive rut. I'm half way through my final year on a BSc Computing course. I didn't have A levels but I managed to talk my way in because I've been into computers since I got an old 386 when I was about 6 or 7. I'm not sure if it's a passion but it's something I can do naturally, probably where I'm having some issues.

I'm pretty competent across the board but I can't get stuck into a lot of the work, I should have been good for a 2:1 but this year is slipping badly at the moment and I could end up with a 2:2. I dunno why but I'm just not arsed, I can't really see a clear career choice out of Uni so I'm not entirely sure what I'm working towards. For some reason the idea of being a programmer just doesn't appeal to me, though of all the things I'm doing I do like developing for Android, I was also encouraged to switch to a Games Development degree in my final year after I developed this prototype. But honestly, I don't feel I'm strong enough in either to make a career out of it.

There's also things more business related I'm pretty interested in, possibly IT consultancy much further down the line. Though these aren't things really pitched to us here.

Should also probably say I'm going to be 27 when I graduate, older compared to most graduates - I was an English teacher before this in Hong Kong, I loved living abroad and the bug is still with me somewhat... are there any IT jobs that involve travel? What is the career market like abroad? (Asia preferably)

I appreciate this is something I should take up with my own supervisors and career help at University, and I will, just I've had a headache of a night and I thought I could pour my thoughts out for a bit. Any help or advice welcome. 

[Zlen]

Wait for PS4 to be released.

Hack it.

Get a job at Sony.

 

[Kashinoda]

Wait for PS4 to be released.

Hack it.

Get a job sued at by Sony.

 

Very helpful, fixed it for you too! 

[lachesis]

Plenty of jobs on the road for resellers for IT. Probably best to start putting the feelers out to big companies like Equanet, Dell, EMC for their graduate programmes.

As for IT in general, it really is multi-directional. You'll need experience - it's invaluable. Over the summer find the biggest IT house near you and work for free for the six weeks. Choose what area you are most attracted to:

infrastructure engineer - basically plugging it in and making it work. Will be working in a server room/datacenter environment for about 25% of the time and then remote suporting from your desk the other. You'll need to concentrate on fibre fabrics (brocade have good free videos on their site), storage (popular at the moment in SME class are probably Netapp, Clariion, Celerra then you're looking at possibly Symmetrix and metrocluster for enterprise). VMWare is an excellent one to have and the good thing is that it's quite easy to learn the fundamentals to manage a virtual datacenter. Know about the different platforms like Blades and standard servers. Get comfortable with navigating and using command line. Utilities like putty and winscp will be helpful. A lot of systems that are command line use some variant of a *nix shell or completely proprietary. As long as you have the logic then you should be able to pick up basic syntax quite easily. Also have knowledge of enterprise monitoring like SCOM. Then there are enterprise level mail platforms like Exchange.

Databases/Development: Again, there's a massive range of databases and they vary in how they are programmed. You have object oriented and relational. Some technologies I'd say look at will be MSSQL, Oracle, Sybase/Infocom, Mimer and Cache. The syntax is pretty consistent across these systems for the basics (like SELECT statements), but systems like Cache require their queires to be optimised differently. Learn how to administer these systems (disk IO measurement, recovery tools - some like RMAN are a bit difficult to get to grips with). Next, learn how to put front end web shells on these databases as that's a common request. You'll also need to learn how to perform linked table queries that are optimised as to not affect performance during normal working hours in most cases (unless you have a reporting instance). Learn about clustering and how it's changed form the traditional model to the features available now. Also I can't stress this enough, learn the licensing model.

Client: App-V, MDOP, View, VDI, Kaviza, Imprivata and application compatibility is a big issue at the moment. The goal is to make the platform independent of the applications, so you can replace the OS with no effect on the applications published to the users. Then there are managament tools like SCCM (now called SCSS now I think). VDI is bringing back a surge of Citrix at the moment. HDX is unparalled in terms of performance. Know about AppGate, XenApp and XenDesktop. Also know a little of terminal servers, remoteapp and HTML5 gateways for multiplatform delivery. Apples are becoming more and more common in the workplace now. At the very minimum know how to support an iPad and how to stick a mac on a windows network with access to domain resources.

Network: Obviously need to start low down here. Biggest player is obviously Cisco but the market is very competitive for CCNA's to break into it. You would possibly have more success starting lower down the ladder and spending some time with your own network team. Hopefully in time a job will come up. You'll need ios as a given and it wouldn't harm to have some knowledge of NX-OS - awareness of ANM & ACE is also helpful. If you want to specialise and acquire skills that are less sought after but often more valuable then look at Junos and Nortel - contact companies like scalable networks and again, see the graduate programme.

Project manager: The amount of non technical project managers makes me cry. Get a PRINCE2 cert and then look at starting as a project admin and work your way up. Potential earnings are decent and essentially it's a glorified co-ordinator role.

Games: Again, from what I've heard very competitive. You need to pick an area like coding, art, design and then starting making a demo reel on youtube (you can see some of these by searching youtube to see the competition). Get a copy of the Valve source SDK and begin some level design work. At the very least learn illustrator - while you're still a student grab student copies of Autodesk software (maya/3dsm) as I think these are 'free' for three years. Learn them and learn them well (there's a few people on here who can obviously use the tools well like Kit and Macphisto). Also learn zbrush. Programming goes without saying but it's quite arduous - again there are SDK's for WP and android to get stuck into first.

To flesh out your CV, most of these offer free trials. Set up your own non-profit organisation, buy a large server with some RAM. Stick ESX on it and do the following:

Build a domain;
Set up Exchange for your domain which routes external mails;
Configure DNS and DHCP;
Use something like NetSim to design the logical network (indepedently);
See if you can get hold of the virtual appliances for the storage or buy lab time and start having a mess on those. Provision storage, expand storage and then delete storage;
Set up the likes of SCOM and SCCM;
Deploy App-V servers;
Build a dB cluster;
Set up a citrix farm.

Honestly it's the only way to get all these skills. Most of the products are free or offer 90-180 day free trials. Things like that is what will seperate you from the crowd. Stretching the truth a little can mean the above translates to - managed an entire IT infrastructure on my own consisting of x, y and z.

[MHLC]

Plenty of jobs on the road for resellers for IT. Probably best to start putting the feelers out to big companies like Equanet, Dell, EMC for their graduate programmes.

Think this is the best advice you can have - try absolutely everything you can to get into a graduate training job that will structure your development for the first year or two. Don't limit yourself to just tech vendors either. Try service providers/outsourcer like HP/EDS, IBM, CapGemini, Accenture etc. All these can offer a broad range of jobs involving all manner of technology.

I wouldn't get too bogged down in any one type of discipline straight after graduation, unless you are absolutely certain of what you want to do. I started as a Java programmer whilst on a grad scheme at EDS. It wasn't for me, so after 18 months I moved into Infrastructure - a decision I never regretted as the diversity in my work in the last decade has been huge - ranging from designing/implementing/supporting Unix systems, firewalls, DNS/IP management systems, load balancers, all types of enterprise scale storage, backup and DR solutions and plenty more.

One obvious thing to do - make sure you have a LinkedIn profile. There are some good links on there to agencies and direct recruiters. I can also put you in touch with a few recruiters if you PM me.

Good luck

[meff]

Definitely familiarise yourself with the ITIL framework if you haven't already as part of your course. Getting your head around the common delivery practices and terminology used by integrators and service providers will put you in a good position when you start actively looking for a position.

[Jake]

For the time being mate forget about what career you want.

You need to pull your finger out and do some serious graft and get this 2:1.

Seriously, you need to give up your time, work until the early hours like 4 days a week until May, and walk away with a strong degree.

So many grad jobs ask for a 2:1 minimum, you're shooting yourself in the foot, because you know you can do it. The fact you blagged yourself onto the course shows your attitude and commitment. Back it up with a strong grade and you'll be flying mate. Its only 5 months of your llife, grind through it.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

If you want to be a good manager start with a job where you are actually doing work. Then naturally progress.

Nothing worse than Managers that were never technical.

[SP]

Nothing worse than Managers that were never technical.

There is. Managers who were Cobol programmers once that thinks that makes them technical.  The problem with managers is never the lack of technical knowledge per se, it is the gap between the level of knowledge that they think that they have and the sad pitiful true state of their knowledge. The best managers are the ones who know their limits and ask their developers for technical advice which they factor into their project plan...

[SP]

Oh, and I echo the advice on the topic. Get on a job where they offer you training. In IT you need to get a year's experience to be taken seriously. It is fair easier to change discipline once you are in a job than to try to get into the dream job straight off.

[AM76]

Definitely familiarise yourself with the ITIL framework if you haven't already as part of your course. Getting your head around the common delivery practices and terminology used by integrators and service providers will put you in a good position when you start actively looking for a position.

If your gonna get ITIL qualified, I'd highly recommend Sysop in Heywood.  Have done all my ITIL qualifications there and they are really good.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

There is. Managers who were Cobol programmers once that thinks that makes them technical.  The problem with managers is never the lack of technical knowledge per se, it is the gap between the level of knowledge that they think that they have and the sad pitiful true state of their knowledge. The best managers are the ones who know their limits and ask their developers for technical advice which they factor into their project plan...

Do you find those anywhere though? I can't think of anyone still around nowadays in the places I've been at that did COBOL back in the 80s and is still managing now (Well not at a level where I tend to notice them). The only bods still around that did COBOL back then thesedays have moved on and through whatever technologies they had to get on with as projects progress. That's the main thing about Middle Management - they are the most expendable group going. Usually get promoted past their level of competence and then eventually binned. Most of the people that I know refused to go down any management path - including me.

But of the managers about, the worst ones around always seem to be the ones that never had any technical background whatsoever. Which is fine if they are just doing glorified admin roles. Less good if they are leading technical projects.

[SP]

Do you find those anywhere though? I can't think of anyone still around nowadays in the places I've been at that did COBOL back in the 80s and is still managing now (Well not at a level where I tend to notice them). The only bods still around that did COBOL back then thesedays have moved on and through whatever technologies they had to get on with as projects progress. That's the main thing about Middle Management - they are the most expendable group going. Usually get promoted past their level of competence and then eventually binned. Most of the people that I know refused to go down any management path - including me.

But of the managers about, the worst ones around always seem to be the ones that never had any technical background whatsoever. Which is fine if they are just doing glorified admin roles. Less good if they are leading technical projects.

I have avoided being middle managed since 2000 - but still bear the scars. I dare say that this generation's COBOL could be VB.

But I generally found that the less techy managers took technical advice far more seriously that someone deluding themselves that they could still do the techy roles.

[cissepower]

For the time being mate forget about what career you want.

You need to pull your finger out and do some serious graft and get this 2:1.

Seriously, you need to give up your time, work until the early hours like 4 days a week until May, and walk away with a strong degree.

So many grad jobs ask for a 2:1 minimum, you're shooting yourself in the foot, because you know you can do it. The fact you blagged yourself onto the course shows your attitude and commitment. Back it up with a strong grade and you'll be flying mate. Its only 5 months of your llife, grind through it.

Totally agree with this.

[Yosser0_0]

Nothing worse than Managers that were never technical.

Managers without management skills?

Leadership, man management, planning, organisation, communication, etc. - I could break that list down even further. Many technically competent people who may be outstanding in a techincal role actually make poor managers due to the differeent skill set requirements. Some people simply do not have the traits to be a successful leader / manager. 

[Not Bob]

But of the managers about, the worst ones around always seem to be the ones that never had any technical background whatsoever. Which is fine if they are just doing glorified admin roles. Less good if they are leading technical projects.

Why? Leadership and organization are far more valuable than knowing how it's done. As Pansy said, a proper good manager will be able to work with the developers and also think and work from a UX perspective, whereas the more technical lads can get a project bogged down.

I see it every day at work. We almost killed a massive project because of lack of leadership, but the guy in charge is practically a genius when it comes to the technical stuff.

And I'm not having a go, I'm fairly new to this industry. I just equate it to a great manager who never played to flight football.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Managers without management skills?

Leadership, man management, planning, organisation, communication, etc. - I could break that list down even further. Many technically competent people who may be outstanding in a techincal role actually make poor managers due to the differeent skill set requirements. Some people simply do not have the traits to be a successful leader / manager. 

I'd absolutely agree with that as well.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

I'll give it to you straight.

Your problem is that you don't know what you want to do with your life - once you figure that out you'll be a success. If you continue with a career in IT and don't want to do it deep down you are setting yourself up for failure.

You need to go through some adversity to emerge with something worthwhile at the other end and to give you focus on something you really want to do. You would probably have been better served by doing the A-levels instead of talking your way in. Now you are on your degree course I echo what was said above - you HAVE to make the best of it and get the best degree you can. Doesn't matter if you come out with a 2:2 - by immersing yourself fully in the subject and trying your balls off you will knwo by the end if its something you have genuine talent in and actually want to spend your time doing for the rest of your life. Even if you come out with a First yuo might decide its not for you - but unless you dedicate yourself you are just putting off making the decision about what you want to do.

If you come out with a 2:2 but a much stronger idea of who you are and what you want to do it will be much much bette rfor you than being stuck in a job you don't care that much about.

[cissepower]

^^ Good post, that.

Just a general point, not really specific to IT, but how many people actually do a job they truly love?

[Harinder]

Hi Kashinoda

I used to do the grad recruitment for a lot of the investment banks. As times changed they changed criteria wise.

One thing I would stress is to apply for grad training programmes. If you can, a year long internship somewhere too.

pm or email me your course synopsis and modules you're on now mate if you want. I'll help in any way I can. Sadly I stopped being allowed to be involved in recruitment as I became a contractor and have been for near 10 years now in this sector but I'll happily speak to the grads I know and have helped so they can start repaying some favours owed to me (if only for advice/direction)

Wish I'd seen this earlier too when I had time to give a fuller response. Promise I'll provide one later tomorrow. You're not out of any loops given your age. I started my degree later than others and it affected nothing whatsoever.

You'll be surprised at just how much of an advantage it actually is especially given what you've done abroad 

[Slick_Beef]

Top advice that


OP: It was strange to read your post because I could have written exactly the same thing a few years ago. I was sleepwalking through a Computer Science BSc, my heart wasn't really in it by the end. I scraped a 2:1 (I got about 59.9% ). I left uni still not sure what to do. Like so many lost 20-somethings I ended up working in a call centre. After a few years of fucking horrible work I finally started to wake up and start thinking about where my life was going. I decided that I.T. was what I was good at and realised it was just my mentality letting me down. I saved up for a Computer Science masters to get me back on track. I have never been so motivated on any course in my life and have averaged 80% this time with only the thesis left to hand in. I learnt that the hard way and have had to spend a lot of money to "correct" my mistakes.  In your case: Whether or not IT is for you, only know can decide but at some point soon you need to look in the mirror and decide what you are going to do in your life, whatever it is. If it's IT, then give this last year everything you've got. I have seen what happens when you just plod on without commitment to what you are doing, and it generally involves shitty jobs, low pay and serious regrets. Good luck mate.

[WhoHe]

I think skills in the most popular platforms will always pay, we use MS Sharepoint a lot and the market in this is buoyant as far as I can see. Niche skills can attract better pay but it can be difficult to break into. I agree with ITIL especially now that outsourcing of IT is prevalent it gives a basic understanding of what is a change, an incident etc. so eases communication with providers.
DB skills/jobs seem to have waned to me as open source/free DBS have taken off like php but I have been out of this area for a while.
One skill that is definitely in demand is Business Analysis for the same outsourcing reasons as they are the key link between the business requirements and the providers. My last company laid off loads of people but the BAs seemed to do OK.
Architects earn the money for sure but there are that many now that I am not qualified to give a real opinion, Information architects, business architects, technical architects, enterprise architects, security architects and probably others. This is the area to be in if you are a technical whizz kid.

I think IT/IS has had it's heyday but there are still plenty of openings just the pay gap between other professions has lessened but it can still pay very well.

As someone stated before try and do a job you love but as someone who has done a job he hates for years to pay the bills then I am being a bit of a hypocrite. 

[MHLC]

Just a general point, not really specific to IT, but how many people actually do a job they truly love?

Hello

Common theme here Kashinoda seems to be:

a) Work your bollocks off to get as good a degree as possible.
b) Use everything at your disposal to try and get into a graduate training job.

[Not Bob]

Oh, and if you have WPF experience, I could probably get you a telecommuting gig right now

[The_Last_Don]

Security is the next big thing, get your self qualified in the field of ethical hacking and forensics, good professionals in this field are hard to come by.

Once qualified / certified you can join a good audit company e.g. Deloitte PwC or even BT who provide a lot consultancy.

Like with anything in life the more you put in the more you'll get out.  Good luck.

[willss]

Best possible piece of advice I can give is to learn how to communicate with people.  If you can summarise a technical conversation and replay that in management circles you'll do well in any area of IT. 

Do not underplay the importance of years or technical knowledge and don't assume that managers are idiots even if most of their actions suggest that they are.

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

There is. Managers who were Cobol programmers once that thinks that makes them technical.  The problem with managers is never the lack of technical knowledge per se, it is the gap between the level of knowledge that they think that they have and the sad pitiful true state of their knowledge. The best managers are the ones who know their limits and ask their developers for technical advice which they factor into their project plan...

Such a beautiful summary of one of the main causes of the repeat headaches I suffer. That last bit is the clincher for me, so often overlooked by stubborn egos that can't accept the fact that being wrong on something doesn't affect your authority.

Back on topic, the OP needs to decide if IT is the career for him. Working in IT is often portrayed as a great way to earn loads of cash, but it isn't glamorous. It needs hard work and at a basic fundamental level a rough idea of the direction you want to go in. For me, this mythical 'IT Consultant' job title is a bit of a cop out, it means nothing to me. Best advice I can give is get the 2:1, put the hours in and then try and get a place on a grad scheme (although beware, competition for places on these is brutal). If you genuinely can't be arsed, I would recommend doing something that you actually enjoy instead. Use the degree to go and do a post-grad in teaching, hell, you could even be an IT teacher in a school. But don't give up on yourself, you've clearly got a bit of talent. Good luck

[Valore]

^^ Good post, that.

Just a general point, not really specific to IT, but how many people actually do a job they truly love?

I think that's a little overstated, having to find a job you truly love.

In reality, its finding a job you can live with, then getting really good with it. And eventually when you do, you realise being the best in it brings you satisfaction, and from there you grow to really enjoy it.

Obviously having a job you hate is still the biggest losing proposition. Hating what you do is a massive handicap to becoming successful.

[Kashinoda]

Wow, didn't expect so many replies! Thanks for taking the time to reply, really appreciated.

Been up all night working on some Oracle stuff so just heading to bed, I'll have a read and digest all of this this evening.

[pw1008]

I'd say go for a grad scheme if possible. I know a few of my mates who have done this albeit not in IT have been looked after by the companies doubling and trebling salaries in 5 years and working for global companies it brings the opportunity to travel and work in other countries if its something you want. I do know its hard to get on a grad scheme, now they even use UCAS points from A Levels as well as a degree so that might complicate things a little.

I fell into working in IT via a degree in business systems. It depends what you want to do I've always worked in an infrastructure type roles - starting with basic IT support setting up pcs and user support - dont forget that lots of people with degrees are still doing this a few years later but with a bit of drive and ambition and a bit of luck you can go up the ladder. sometimes its just getting the right manager at the right time which has happened to be recently.

Following on from first\second level support I went in to server management, lotus domino administration, exchange administrator and onto Sharepoint. There are lots of Sharepoint jobs at the moment but many are for developers which are hard to find in the northwest of the UK but not sure about the rest of the country. That will get bigger with Sharepoint 2013 but not sure its something I'd aim to do specifically.

Main thing is to decide whether you want to go technical and play with new technolgies, stick with dev stuff of dba admin, server builds or move into a softer management role like PM or Business Analyst. I've done the tech courses never bothered with the exams though as most people will tell you Microsoft exams are so non-real world I dont know anyone who will employ MCSEs on paper based quals over someone with real hands on experience. I've done Prince 2 which is easy to pass and should get you in to some sort of PMO role. even the basic ITIL foundation is good on CV. I'm just moving in a BA role and BCS diploma and the salary track is higher than in tech roles other than maybe management or architect roles but they often do come down to experience and working in a company and understanding all systems.

Also I work for a small-ish global company - 12,000 employees - I get to do some travelling to other offices in New Zealand, Sydney, Melbourne, Pune, UAE, Europe and in the US Denver, New York, Pasadena &San Diego so if thats important to you no point finding work in a UK only company. Finally once working try and get company funded training never so good for work itself but good for your CV for moving on either out of choice or like in current times when the redundancies come round.

[mulfella]

Can anybody recommend an ITIL training provider who does courses in Manchester?

Thanks

[carling]

, it is the gap between the level of knowledge that they think that they have and the sad pitiful true state of their knowledge.

I can relate to this.  Ever heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

[carling]

As for career advice.  I've only been working in IT for 5 years myself (I'm 26) so won't be able to give you as good advice as others on here.  But something I would definitely recommend is to plow through reed.co.uk looking at IT jobs and their descriptions. 

It's not the be all and end all but it will give you an idea of what's out there at the moment and what companies are after.

[MHLC]

Can anybody recommend an ITIL training provider who does courses in Manchester?

Thanks

Try SPOCE.

I completed the PRINCE2 Practitioner exams after a course with them. The instructor was excellent.

www.spoce.co.uk

[MHLC]

As for career advice.  I've only been working in IT for 5 years myself (I'm 26) so won't be able to give you as good advice as others on here.  But something I would definitely recommend is to plow through reed.co.uk looking at IT jobs and their descriptions. 

It's not the be all and end all but it will give you an idea of what's out there at the moment and what companies are after.

The following are also useful for job research:

www.theitjobboard.co.uk
www.cwjobs.co.uk
www.jobserve.co.uk
www.iprofile.org

For the last one, even if you don't have much to put in a profile, the site is a fantastic resource. It allows you to search for jobs and also register your profile with dozens of recruitment agencies that specialise in IT. Had two interviews and offers for jobs I found via that site, both from companies directly advertising. Much easier than going through agencies (job recruiters tend to be lower in the food chain than amoeba's and estate agents).

[Elmo!]

Can anybody recommend an ITIL training provider who does courses in Manchester?

Thanks

For me personally I don't think the cost of paying for training is worth it. You can do this all yourself and just pay for the exam (£100).  There is a good series of videos from Charles Sturt University for ITIL on youtube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgMPczDPwL4&feature=BFa&list=UUWPI1-oINciIwSvNBB-MXdw

This is all I used and passed reasonably comfortably.

You have to be committed though as ITIL is very dry, not interesting at all but it got me a job pretty much as soon as I got it.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Something to bear in mind if you're thinking of going into IT nowdays is that there aren't many actual technological jobs going. Most of it is shite like JSP, Javascript, HTML, script fiddling, kiddy SQL bollocks and piss like Access, VB and the like. The days to have got into tekky stuff has long gone. Companies don't want to pay for IT professonals to do top work. They want it cheap and they want it fast. Most people nowdays are just script kiddies that did a degree. From that point of view, it's as accessible as it's ever been.

If you want a challenge, try getting work doing something tekky. My job is easy but at least varied across several platforms - Windows, Linux, Unix and a variety of minis/mainframes.

You don't want to be stuck doing something mindnumbing like VB or Java* for the rest of your life.



*Java is a good language and you can do great stuff with it but because of cost, most usage is basic and tiresome

[Kashinoda]

Regarding graduate schemes, are they really the be all and end all? At least that's the impression I'm getting from a lot of the replies. Are internships not a viable option as well?

For me personally I don't think the cost of paying for training is worth it. You can do this all yourself and just pay for the exam (£100).  There is a good series of videos from Charles Sturt University for ITIL on youtube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgMPczDPwL4&feature=BFa&list=UUWPI1-oINciIwSvNBB-MXdw

This is all I used and passed reasonably comfortably.

You have to be committed though as ITIL is very dry, not interesting at all but it got me a job pretty much as soon as I got it.

If ITIL is very dry, how are you finding your job? Thank you for the tip though mate, money is something I don't have.

I'll give it to you straight.

Your problem is that you don't know what you want to do with your life - once you figure that out you'll be a success. If you continue with a career in IT and don't want to do it deep down you are setting yourself up for failure.

You need to go through some adversity to emerge with something worthwhile at the other end and to give you focus on something you really want to do. You would probably have been better served by doing the A-levels instead of talking your way in. Now you are on your degree course I echo what was said above - you HAVE to make the best of it and get the best degree you can. Doesn't matter if you come out with a 2:2 - by immersing yourself fully in the subject and trying your balls off you will knwo by the end if its something you have genuine talent in and actually want to spend your time doing for the rest of your life. Even if you come out with a First yuo might decide its not for you - but unless you dedicate yourself you are just putting off making the decision about what you want to do.

If you come out with a 2:2 but a much stronger idea of who you are and what you want to do it will be much much bette rfor you than being stuck in a job you don't care that much about.

I could do with that pep talk every morning, but seriously, thank mate that's an awesome reply.

I think the pressure of needing a 2:1 is having an adverse effect somewhat, I wouldn't mind a 2:2 if I was happy with what I was doing to be honest.

[Kashinoda]

Something to bear in mind if you're thinking of going into IT nowdays is that there aren't many actual technological jobs going. Most of it is shite like JSP, Javascript, HTML, script fiddling, kiddy SQL bollocks and piss like Access, VB and the like. The days to have got into tekky stuff has long gone. Companies don't want to pay for IT professonals to do top work. They want it cheap and they want it fast. Most people nowdays are just script kiddies that did a degree. From that point of view, it's as accessible as it's ever been.

If you want a challenge, try getting work doing something tekky. My job is easy but at least varied across several platforms - Windows, Linux, Unix and a variety of minis/mainframes.

You don't want to be stuck doing something mindnumbing like VB or Java* for the rest of your life.



*Java is a good language and you can do great stuff with it but because of cost, most usage is basic and tiresome

If there aren't many technological jobs going then is there a point in looking for one? Unfortunately looking at what I'm good at (Java, Android, C#) I am a script kiddy! Not something I even like to associate myself with anyway. I miss the days of being 10 years old, using Amstred, Spectrum, Acorn, Windows 3.11, OS/2 etc. and the world seeming like a technical jungle.

[WorldChampions]

I completed the very same degree about 18 months ago and wasn't sure which avenue to take. I got a job the week after I received my 2:1 working for a international truck manufacturing company in IT infrastructure. I found it tedious and it wasn't really challenging so I stayed for a year and then left for a job as a .net developer for a much smaller company. People say it's best to get a job for a large national/international company but so far in my short IT career I have found this to be the opposite, the larger companies have 100x more bureaucracy and hoops to jump through.

The job change has been great and now I'm sure I want to continue to be a software developer. So if your asking for advice I would say

1) Listen to Le Jake and make sure you get a 2:1 as that will make it much easier for you
2) Try out a variety of different roles until you find one you are happy with. Experience in any field will help your employment prospects