Topic: Thiago Morton is a player. I’ve got his poster on my wall

[Chris~]

Yeah good point makes sense that that’s how we got there and you can see the argument - but the 6 is so fucking hard in our system when playing vs an effective counter attacking team … oh well

Yeah also Morton has only really been playing it since the League Cup game so really having to learn the role as he goes. Throughout the u18s and 23s he's been more of a an 8.

[RedG13]

So play Minamino not Firmino.
He’s played the 6 against very different opposition - and not with two other midfielders who were coming back from injury, one of whom (Milner) whose become awful at keeping our shape without the ball.
He was getting left on an island against some of the more effective counter attackers in the league

Don’t think any of it was his fault he was set up to fail today … and on the plus side he looks extremely tidy on the ball.

Then who the at 6? He started because he was best to fill the role of 6 in this game. You want Keita, Minamino or Milner playing 6? Probably not.
Milner leaving shape as 6 would be worse set up then.

[JackWard33]

Then who the at 6? He started because he was best to fill the role of 6 in this game. You want Keita, Minamino or Milner playing 6? Probably not.
Milner leaving shape as 6 would be worse set up then.

4231 was the alternative which we did (ish) in game

[jooneyisdagod]

He was okay on the ball but consistently off the pace without it. Understandable for such a young player though. It's really not his fault. It is some of the more senior players that were the really underwhelming ones for me. Milner in particular was sloppy in his passing and seemed to not cover the necessary ground.

[FlashGordon]

Off the pace without it isn't really fair though. When fans see a player a little off the pace what the manager and analysts will see is massive gaps between our 3 midfielders.

Someone said it earlier, he was on an island out there at times and even Fabinho struggles in that situation sometimes. Tough game for him but it's all part of the journey. Remains boss on the ball though.

[FowlerLegend]

I thought he'd play Chamberlain to be honest. He's been decent defensively this.season and he seems to enjoy quick games. The management will know all about how fitness though and even naby/milner had to be pushed way beyond what klopp probably would have wanted. Tyler struggled but played some great balls in the first half. That one to Salah was almost perfect. It'll be great experience for him and klopp clearly rates him. Too good to go on loan probably

I think he played him out of absolute necessity today. Personally I think cover/competition for Fabinho is the one area where we really lack but that is not to say this lad won't be the answer long term but we saw last season how Klopp favours an older player over a young player in the short term.
I am sure ideally he would play him a game where he has to make one change to midfield or a dead rubber. Play the lad in an environment he can learn without destroying his confidence if he makes mistakes. Today all 3 players were coming in without real rhythm, even our best players struggle in those circumstances.
Personally would like us to bring a more experienced holding midfielder in. Morton has plenty of time and the more games he can start/come on in in where he is in a settled 11 and to some degree his performance doesn't have to be great, the better he will be in the long term imho.

[RedG13]

4231 was the alternative which we did (ish) in game

And Milner was more of the 6 when they went too and they still creating chances before the red card with it.

[AmanShah21]

Looks a good player and very mature for his age. Needs to improve his first touch which lets him down a few times but is young enough to improve everything.

[jooneyisdagod]

Off the pace without it isn't really fair though. When fans see a player a little off the pace what the manager and analysts will see is massive gaps between our 3 midfielders.

Someone said it earlier, he was on an island out there at times and even Fabinho struggles in that situation sometimes. Tough game for him but it's all part of the journey. Remains boss on the ball though.

I think this is a fair comment. to be honest I think he would have done better if he had to cover less ground and maybe was thrown in alongside Henderson and Thiago as opposed to Milner and Keita who were both not up to full sharpness having not played for a while. I did notice a couple of times where he got outmuscled or wasn't quick enough to the ball when a challenge in that position would have helped him win the ball and thwart the attack quickly. The margins are slim and the standards are high, unfortunately.

[mrantarctica]

I think he played him out of absolute necessity today. Personally I think cover/competition for Fabinho is the one area where we really lack but that is not to say this lad won't be the answer long term but we saw last season how Klopp favours an older player over a young player in the short term.
I am sure ideally he would play him a game where he has to make one change to midfield or a dead rubber. Play the lad in an environment he can learn without destroying his confidence if he makes mistakes. Today all 3 players were coming in without real rhythm, even our best players struggle in those circumstances.
Personally would like us to bring a more experienced holding midfielder in. Morton has plenty of time and the more games he can start/come on in in where he is in a settled 11 and to some degree his performance doesn't have to be great, the better he will be in the long term imho.

to be honest Don't think it will be needed. We have Fab and Hendo who can cover that role, and then as a make-shift I think Thiago and Milner could probably occupy it, with Naby and Ox following suit. Obviously Fab and Hendo are the best in that role, but it's unlikely that we'll lose both at the same time. In other words, there is actually cover for the role and Tyler should still have some opportunities to play fairly frequently which is what a good midfielder needs in order to progress.

I think he played OK. Naturally he won't quite have been at the pace of such a high profile game and there's just things he needs to learn the hard way about positioning, security of the ball, winning 50-50s and how to recycle possession and springboard our attacks. In general, though, I thought he played very well considering he wasn't afforded a lot of protection by either Naby or Milner and we didn't have VVD at the back to mop everything up.

[MonsLibpool]

Off the pace without it isn't really fair though. When fans see a player a little off the pace what the manager and analysts will see is massive gaps between our 3 midfielders.

Someone said it earlier, he was on an island out there at times and even Fabinho struggles in that situation sometimes. Tough game for him but it's all part of the journey. Remains boss on the ball though.

He is a boy playing against men. Not surprising.

[Fromola]

Off the pace without it isn't really fair though. When fans see a player a little off the pace what the manager and analysts will see is massive gaps between our 3 midfielders.

Someone said it earlier, he was on an island out there at times and even Fabinho struggles in that situation sometimes. Tough game for him but it's all part of the journey. Remains boss on the ball though.

Fabinho started the Watford 3-0 and Villa 7-2. Or West Ham and Brentford this season when we conceded three.

Yesterday was a similar game. We battled well for a point (especially given the decisions against us) but like those games we looked like conceding every time Spurs broke. It's an impossible game for the DM to play in that situation given the gaps we leave when the midfield isn't quite right.

He was thrown in along with an undercooked Milner and Keita. We should really have changed the set up, we didn't have the legs in midfield yesterday given our whole first choice midfield was missing. Henderson ruled out last minute threw a big spanner in the works and we didn't want to change our whole shape.

[Drinks Sangria]

Agree with what Fromola has said directly above - the particular combination of players in midfield wasn’t really one that ever looked natural or cohesive. It left Morton isolated and he did his best, but yesterday was not a game to judge him on whatsoever. There’s a reason we’ve never seen those three picked together in a game and likely, circumstances permitting, we won’t ever see it again.

That’s not me being disrespectful to the individual players, just an acceptance that you need a certain combination of elements to play in Liverpool’s midfield and we couldn’t marry all of those up yesterday, it was what it was.

He’ll have learnt a lot and it speaks to Klopp’s trust of him that rather than change the shape, we asked Morton to step up and fulfil the role of the 6.

There’s an argument to be had that we should have lined up with a flat 4 in midfield, Milner and Ox either side of Morton and Naby to give them maximum protection. You then have to sacrifice a forward and work on a shape that we’re not used to, so you can understand why we didn’t go for it.

The more you examine the exterior circumstances, the more you think that it’s a good point to have taken. Examining the internal instances within the match though will drive you crazy.

[sminp]

I don’t think he was the problem, he performed as expected for a young lad with 2 midfielders beside him who played poorly. We really needed more from Milner and Keita to support him through the game. Having said all that if the ref does his job properly this was a much easier game and probably a win for us.

[Fromola]

Agree with what Fromola has said directly above - the particular combination of players in midfield wasn’t really one that ever looked natural or cohesive. It left Morton isolated and he did his best, but yesterday was not a game to judge him on whatsoever. There’s a reason we’ve never seen those three picked together in a game and likely, circumstances permitting, we won’t ever see it again.

That’s not me being disrespectful to the individual players, just an acceptance that you need a certain combination of elements to play in Liverpool’s midfield and we couldn’t marry all of those up yesterday, it was what it was.

He’ll have learnt a lot and it speaks to Klopp’s trust of him that rather than change the shape, we asked Morton to step up and fulfil the role of the 6.

There’s an argument to be had that we should have lined up with a flat 4 in midfield, Milner and Ox either side of Morton and Naby to give them maximum protection. You then have to sacrifice a forward and work on a shape that we’re not used to, so you can understand why we didn’t go for it.

The more you examine the exterior circumstances, the more you think that it’s a good point to have taken. Examining the internal instances within the match though will drive you crazy.

We ideally would have tried something different but it's lack of time as much as anything. Henderson ruled out on the day of the game, Thiago the day before.

It was a really cobbled together midfield. Two players not match sharp, a young lad making his full league debut and they've not played together before. The blend not really there for our midfield either and it allowed a sharp manager like Conte to exploit it with his well rested team.

The way we changed shape to become more solid after the red we could have done something along those lines at half time, or just after we took the lead, as it was just too open.

[smutchin]

I think for an 18 yo playing his ever first game in the Prem on short notice away to spurs in a position normally owned by Alcantara, the lad was excellent. His passing vision's outstanding.

Agreed. He made a few mistakes but I’m prepared to cut him a lot of slack in the circumstances. That was a really tough game to come into at such short notice.

[Coolie High]

Once he gets up to speed physically he’ll be a decent player, that role he was assigned to play is probably the most nuanced in the whole team, Guardiola was talking about  Rodri needing to adapt to that position in the PL last season and he was already someone who came with a decent amount of experience.


He has the intelligence and technique, once he adds some pounds, a bit of pace and experience he’ll be a viable replacement for Fab.

[Fromola]

Once he gets up to speed physically he’ll be a decent player, that role he was assigned to play is probably the most nuanced in the whole team, Guardiola was talking about  Rodri needing to adapt to that position in the PL last season and he was already someone who came with a decent amount of experience.


He has the intelligence and technique, once he adds some pounds, a bit of pace and experience he’ll be a viable replacement for Fab.

Fabinho needed months to adapt. Klopp had him in and out the team for half a season.

[Ghost Town]

Loved his one-thought, one-touch nanosecond pass to Mo from midfield, after the press, in the early moments of the game. Could easily have led to a goal

[FowlerLegend]

to be honest Don't think it will be needed. We have Fab and Hendo who can cover that role, and then as a make-shift I think Thiago and Milner could probably occupy it, with Naby and Ox following suit. Obviously Fab and Hendo are the best in that role, but it's unlikely that we'll lose both at the same time. In other words, there is actually cover for the role and Tyler should still have some opportunities to play fairly frequently which is what a good midfielder needs in order to progress.

I think he played OK. Naturally he won't quite have been at the pace of such a high profile game and there's just things he needs to learn the hard way about positioning, security of the ball, winning 50-50s and how to recycle possession and springboard our attacks. In general, though, I thought he played very well considering he wasn't afforded a lot of protection by either Naby or Milner and we didn't have VVD at the back to mop everything up.

Personally think we have loads of players but none that play the Fabinho role well, hence why we look porous when he doesn't play.

I would like to see us have another option to play alongside Fabinho. Maybe that player would just be a good defensive midfielder that offered additional defensive protection in some games but ideally they would be a quality all rounder and offer a bit more (maybe it will be Bellingham) and provide effective cover if Fabinho is out.

I don't think Morton is ready for that role yet and I don't see we should be putting that pressure on him to have that level of responsibility either.

[mrantarctica]

Personally think we have loads of players but none that play the Fabinho role well, hence why we look porous when he doesn't play.

I would like to see us have another option to play alongside Fabinho. Maybe that player would just be a good defensive midfielder that offered additional defensive protection in some games but ideally they would be a quality all rounder and offer a bit more (maybe it will be Bellingham) and provide effective cover if Fabinho is out.

I don't think Morton is ready for that role yet and I don't see we should be putting that pressure on him to have that level of responsibility either.

Morton only played because our entire midfield was ruled out at very short notice. We really had no other option but to play him. Some might argue why didn't Ox play instead, but we were still very short in midfield. Depending on how things go, we might see more of the same for the next game or two.

[FowlerLegend]

Morton only played because our entire midfield was ruled out at very short notice. We really had no other option but to play him. Some might argue why didn't Ox play instead, but we were still very short in midfield. Depending on how things go, we might see more of the same for the next game or two.

Yeah, no issue with that. Needs must.
I just don't think we have great options now for the Fabinho role. He may turn out to be one day but not this season or next. It's an area of the squad that could do with addressing. Jurgen protects his players, especially the young ones, so am sure he would prefer not to have to throw him in.

[SamLad]

Reading the comments made me wonder what was said about Stevie in his first games.

Morton's a kid. His potential is enormous, and his development is and will be managed superbly.  Can't wait to see him progress.

[duvva 💅]

Yeah, no issue with that. Needs must.
I just don't think we have great options now for the Fabinho role. He may turn out to be one day but not this season or next. It's an area of the squad that could do with addressing. Jurgen protects his players, especially the young ones, so am sure he would prefer not to have to throw him in.

Think it’s a bit early to rule him out of being ready for more minutes next season. He’s coming along just nicely and no doubt Spurs was his toughest game yet and he struggled to get fully involved but he wasn’t that bad. He’ll have learned plenty from the experience and while he may not get loads more minutes this season in the League or CL unless there’s an injury or Covid crisis, I’d be surprised if he’s not a better stronger player next season and one who is developing the tactical awareness to fill in for Fabinho sooner rather than later

[Lad]

Reading the comments made me wonder what was said about Stevie in his first games.

Morton's a kid. His potential is enormous, and his development is and will be managed superbly.  Can't wait to see him progress.

A young player has to start off like Messi to satisfy some people mate. Check out the Nat Phillips thread, some of the  posts when he was thrown in at the deep end last season were horrendous.

[rob1966]

Reading the comments made me wonder what was said about Stevie in his first games.

Morton's a kid. His potential is enormous, and his development is and will be managed superbly.  Can't wait to see him progress.

I remember seeing him in those games and thinking "fucking hell, he's going to be some player".

Different times though back then, people weren't such c*nts back then, twatter didn't exist, so you didn't have the shitehawks giving everyone fucking dogs while wanking over pictures of their own ma's or sniffing their sisters knickers, we had a better fanbase who understood young players needed time to settle.

Imagine the noise over this these days

[CraigDS]

Imagine the noise over this these days

snip

Just a yellow that.

[tubby]

Was Gerrard playing for England when that happened?  Makes all the difference.

[Sangria]

Imagine the noise over this these days

Was he England captain at the time?

[Eeyore]

Just a yellow that.

A couple of black and blue ones I would imagine.

[SamLad]

A young player has to start off like Messi to satisfy some people mate.

Different times though back then, people weren't such c*nts back then, twatter didn't exist, so you didn't have the shitehawks giving everyone fucking dogs

the problem in a nutshell.

god forbid a player makes a mistake....

god forbid a manager puts a young lad in a game to gain experience....

and if a manager puts a young lad in a game to gain experience, and that young lad goes and makes a mistake .... run for the fukking hills!

[rob1966]

Was he England captain at the time?

No, that was about 3 years later.

If he was England captain he could have killed him and pissed on the corpse and nothing would have been said.

[FowlerLegend]

Reading the comments made me wonder what was said about Stevie in his first games.

Morton's a kid. His potential is enormous, and his development is and will be managed superbly.  Can't wait to see him progress.

Gerrard is a great example. Called up when we had injuries along with Stephen Wright and Houllier brought in McAllister to ensure that he didn't have to play too many games too soon.
Gerrard was a different level to anything from the beginning but his games were still managed to avoid burnout and the old silly "if their good enough, their old enough" saying.
Morton looks a decent player no doubt but don't think he is ready to be understudy for Fabinho and nor should he be. We can afford to bring in an a versatile option to compliment Fabinho, offer cover him and allow Morton the space to grow gradually. Very much like Utd did with Ronaldo and not like we did with Babel

[FowlerLegend]

A young player has to start off like Messi to satisfy some people mate. Check out the Nat Phillips thread, some of the  posts when he was thrown in at the deep end last season were horrendous.

There will always be fans that are binary and think players are either crap or brilliant and won't ever be able to develop from that.
Klopp's opinion is the one that matters and let's face it, no one knows what he really thinks. Remember what he said about Jordan Ibe and look how long he lasted! Time will tell l!

[farawayred]

I thought he didn't have a great game for most of the game, but went to another level after their triple substitution. Where did that boos in confidence come from?!

[Sangria]

I thought he didn't have a great game for most of the game, but went to another level after their triple substitution. Where did that boos in confidence come from?!

Goodison Park?

[farawayred]

Goodison Park?

  typo

*boost

[SamLad]

There will always be fans that are binary and think players are either crap or brilliant and won't ever be able to develop from that.

true.  but it should be OK to say that a player didn't have a good game.  no need to write them off prematurely, and no need to claim that someone is doing that when they're not

any player can have a poor game, no matter what their standing, experience level, etc.

[MonsLibpool]

There is a player in there. Like many youngsters, his physical attributes give him less time on the ball because he doesn't have the upper body strength to hold it yet. We'll see him become more expansive as he develops.

[telekon]

This lad is the one that seamlessly fits in with the senior squad Out of the young players this season. He's got the technique and presence of mind to receive the ball and already know what he's going to do next. He was brilliant in his debut and was good yesterday. One I'd really love for us to keep and improve.