Topic: Today's shooting - The Sandy Hook Memorial Thread - Thoughts and Prayers

[Chakan]

If only the students who got shot had guns with them , this could have been avoided.

[jooneyisdagod]

If only the students who got shot had guns with them , this could have been avoided.

Bombs mate. Imagine if they had bombs. Or rocket launchers. They could have taken out the shooter easily.

[Aceldama]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn1fwrq_QO0WkzBjdIM-8uQ/videos

Thats meant to be his youtube channel as well I think?

It's not this guy. Twat's on the internet jumping the gun (for want of a better phrase) again.

The actually guy is a mixed race IRA and Nazi enthusiast.

[MichaelA]

I doubt it, this sort of thing has happened before. They have goaded people into suicide and at least once a murderer posted on there during the crime, even posting photos of the victim before he was caught.

In fact I'd delete the links above as I think the photos appear in that thread.

I've removed the links and any mention of the kid that did this.

Sadly I think that you're right about any repercussions, although some of the anons will have to live with their complicity for the rest of their lives. I think this does give law enforcement agencies their best opportunity yet to knock some lumps out of 4chan - the actions of the shooter were posted on their boards and they didn't respond, and other users encouraged acts of violence. The timeline of this event differs from the murder last year, which I understood to have taken place before he posted on the board?

In US legal terms those users who encouraged this shooter were accessories, actively involved:

(a) Whoever aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures the commission of an offense, is punishable as a principal
(b) Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense, is punishable as a principal

They'll need some decent IP masking. 4chan will need some shit hot lawyers.

[Geppvindh's]

Have the discussions about how this was unpreventable started yet? Have some people come out and said that American fundamental rights prevent guns from ever being taken away from their citizens? Have the stats been distorted sufficiently yet? Have the academic credentials of those wanting to make the case for gun control been questioned yet? Have the waters been muddied sufficiently by the same fucking crew yet? Every year, no month, no every other week this shit happens and nothing is done about it.

Yes, no more "gun-free zones" apparently. That's the solution. How can people defend themselves when they don't carry a weapon? *rolls eyes*

Seriously, the NRA are smart fucks. Every incident, they quietly push their agenda through the conservative news outlets. Their responses are well thought out, and they make sure they lay out all the cards. This year has been a campaign to rid the country of gun free zones. The messages permeate through people like a termite infestation - most people on liberal news boards now believe the college being a gun free zone was the problem (although there's conflicting stories that it wasn't a gun free zone after all!). If there's one thing that unites America's right and left overwhelmingly, it's gun ownership. The conservative nuts are angry and want more guns, the more liberal bent understand there's a problem but don't want their guns taken away. In my experience, talking to an American about gun control is like asking a woman her weight, usually met with scorn.

[thejbs]

Gun ownership in the US seems to fit into my stereotype of the average conservative American. There are over 300million guns in a country that has a population of around 300m. Those guns are in only 45% of households, meaning that those legally entitled to own a gun have around 7 each of them on average. Utter madness.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Not really news though.

When you have a country like the US with a fixation for readily available guns and people making excuses and not changing things then this is going to happen again and again and again.

It's very, very sad but I can't see how it will ever stop.

[Titi Camara]

Hours after the attack, in which seven were also injured, a visibly frustrated President Barack Obama demanded tighter gun laws, saying prayers are "no longer enough".

Prayers were never enough!

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Not really news though.

When you have a country like the US with a fixation for readily available guns and people making excuses and not changing things then this is going to happen again and again and again.

It's very, very sad but I can't see how it will ever stop.

Even the 'President most likely to' can't fix it, the situation is fucked beyond belief. And still they demand their right to bear arms.

[HarryLabrador]

Don't know if this has already been posted.

Gunman's father from north-west England

The gunman has a British father Ian Mercer, who is aged in his mid-50s and from the north-west of England, reports The Telegraph's Tom Morgan.

The family are believed to have moved to the US in the mid-1990s. Mr Mercer told reporters outside his home he was "as surprised as anyone" at the tragedy.

He said: "Obviously, it's been a devastating day. Devastating for me and my family. I'm just as shocked as everybody at what happened today.

"I've just been talking to the police and the FBI. That's all the details I have right now, is what you know already."

In apparent signs of anti-British feeling, killer Chris Harper-Mercer had posted pictures of articles about the IRA.

His email address was ironcross45@gmail.com, suggesting he also had sympathies with Nazi Germany.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11906108/Oregon-shooting-Chris-Harper-Mercer-kills-nine-Roseburg-live.html

[Corkboy]

In US legal terms those users who encouraged this shooter were accessories, actively involved:

(a) Whoever aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures the commission of an offense, is punishable as a principal
(b) Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense, is punishable as a principal

They'll need some decent IP masking. 4chan will need some shit hot lawyers.

From what I've seen from the 4chan link, it's not that straight forward. The guy comes on the board, says he's going to do something and warns the board users. There are plenty of comments after that but I don't think any of them come within your definition. I mean, how likely is it that any of the comments actually moved the shooter to do what he did? Seems like he had his mind made up, so the comments while distasteful probably don't amount to criminal liability.

Put it this way. If the comments came before the threat, you would be closer to a crime. But where the threat is clearly communicated at the outset, he says no more, doesn't interact or take advice? I don't see it.

[CheshireDave]

the actions of the shooter were posted on their boards and they didn't respond, and other users encouraged acts of violence.

That happens every day on 4chan. People make claims which almost never come to fruition. There is actually no confirmation that this was a claim made by the actual killer. Someone just said "Don't go to school tomorrow in the North West..." - The North West is a big old area and this may just be a case of the lines matching up for once. That said it may very well have been the actual killer who posted that. It does not really matter because 4chan will just continue in its current form. Incidents like this have happened before and nothing changed on 4chan. No one who posted on that thread on 4chan will be charged with a crime.

[Redman0151]

Those anons are accessories to murder. 4chan is going to be dismantled by this.

It's like shutting down a boozer because there's always fights and trouble there. Inevitably the same nobheads will just migrate to a new boozer somewhere else.

They need to look at WHY these young, white males are turning to this kind of thing with worrying regularity. What's causing Americans to shoot up their own schools and murder innocent children? I just can't comprehend it

[Sir Harvest Fields]

More guns...

[Mumm-Ra]

Regarding this graphic - don't jump to the conclusion that when you hear of a mass shooting it is necessarily one of these disaffected weirdos going and randomly shooting up a school/cinema etc. On Monday Sep 28, there were two mass shootings in Chicago. Both gang-related. 3 killed in one, 2 in another, with more wounded, so I think they would qualify for the graphic. I would wager that gang-related shootings account for most of the instances in that graphic.

Not making any wider point here, just pointing out something. People here tend to focus on these loner shootings which are really horrible, disturbing, and grab the headlines. But in the grand scheme of people getting shot in America every day, they are the exception rather than the norm.

[Titi Camara]

What the fuck is/or isn't happening in October?

[jooneyisdagod]

What the fuck is/or isn't happening in October?

October hasn't happened yet you Titi.

[Titi Camara]

October hasn't happened yet you Titi.

Fuck me...I'm a moron today....well most days....but definitively today!

[J_Kopite]

Views like this - https://twitter.com/RickCanton/status/649902172289765376

symptom or cause of these shootings?

[macca888]

Regarding this graphic - don't jump to the conclusion that when you hear of a mass shooting it is necessarily one of these disaffected weirdos going and randomly shooting up a school/cinema etc. On Monday Sep 28, there were two mass shootings in Chicago. Both gang-related. 3 killed in one, 2 in another, with more wounded, so I think they would qualify for the graphic. I would wager that gang-related shootings account for most of the instances in that graphic.

Not making any wider point here, just pointing out something. People here tend to focus on these loner shootings which are really horrible, disturbing, and grab the headlines. But in the grand scheme of people getting shot in America every day, they are the exception rather than the norm.

Over 45 of these this year have been in schools and colleges, according to the news. 5 or so a month, 1 or so every week. Nothing exceptional about that.

[MichaelA]

From what I've seen from the 4chan link, it's not that straight forward. The guy comes on the board, says he's going to do something and warns the board users. There are plenty of comments after that but I don't think any of them come within your definition. I mean, how likely is it that any of the comments actually moved the shooter to do what he did? Seems like he had his mind made up, so the comments while distasteful probably don't amount to criminal liability.

Put it this way. If the comments came before the threat, you would be closer to a crime. But where the threat is clearly communicated at the outset, he says no more, doesn't interact or take advice? I don't see it.

You're the lawyer! It looks like abetting a crime to me, and given the general claw sharpening regarding 4chan, I'd be amazed if someone didn't have a pop at them. Having said that, I'm sure that your comments and similar from others are the lielly outcome in the long run - no one really gets held to account regarding guns in the USA.

[Mouth]

You're the lawyer! It looks like abetting a crime to me, and given the general claw sharpening regarding 4chan, I'd be amazed if someone didn't have a pop at them. Having said that, I'm sure that your comments and similar from others are the lielly outcome in the long run - no one really gets held to account regarding guns in the USA.

If 4chan gets any flak its only going to be as a distraction from the real problem. The media might go after it for it bit, but 4chan didn't cause this, same as its not violence in video games or movies. All of these things are simply a reflection of society. Chicken and egg thing.

[MichaelA]

If 4chan gets any flak its only going to be as a distraction from the real problem. The media might go after it for it bit, but 4chan didn't cause this, same as its not violence in video games or movies. All of these things are simply a reflection of society. Chicken and egg thing.

 I wouldn't argue with that, but 4chan will be used as a scapegoat (scape-chicken? scape-egg?)) for this specific action. 

[zabadoh]

From http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooting-20151002-story.html

Mercer lived in an apartment complex in nearby Winchester, where investigators found a number of firearms, Douglas County Sheriff John Hanlin said Friday. Details about the number and type of guns would be released later, he said.

...

Hanlin, the sheriff, said Thursday that he was not going to say the shooter's name because that's what he would have wanted.

"I will not name the shooter. I will not give him the credit he probably sought prior to this horrific and cowardly act," said a visibly angry Hanlin.

...

The sheriff has been vocal in opposing state and federal gun-control legislation. In 2013, Hanlin sent a letter to Vice President Joe Biden after the shooting at a Newtown, Connecticut, elementary school, declaring that he and his deputies would refuse to enforce new gun-control restrictions "offending the constitutional rights of my citizens."

Irony.

[Red Beret]

That's the spirit America.  That's the way to stop shootings - don't report them and so deprive the criminals of the notoriety they crave.  In fact, you should just go ahead and suppress news of all future shootings - it will make your citizens feel safer.

[Terry_Tibbs]

Because you can never have enough guns. 

BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 
13 guns recovered from gunman - six at Oregon campus where he killed nine people, seven at his flat, US police say

[alonsoisared]

Can't believe what I saw on the 4chan link posted up last night. I thought the place was just memes and naked celebrities. Worrying that such a dark corner of the Internet has free reign and seemingly isn't moderated at all.

[Geppvindh's]

From http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooting-20151002-story.html

Irony.

No wonder. He was also one of those who believed Sandy Hook was a hoax.

http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/10/oregon-sheriff-handling-oregon-massacre-promoted-sandy-hook-conspiracy-theory

[AndyMuller]

It's horrible to say but I'm not even shocked anymore.

RIP to those lost by this hideous crime.

[Chakan]

Canutillo Independent School District has placed Canutillo High School, Northwest Early College High and Canutillo Central Office on lockdown. The district received reports of a person with a gun at the Northwest El Paso Community College campus.

[ThePeetmix]

Because you can never have enough guns. 

It's just an absolute joke at this point. The number of incidents.

How the fuck does a person get 13 guns? The USA have zero control over guns in their country and that's scary.

[Corkboy]

Can't believe what I saw on the 4chan link posted up last night. I thought the place was just memes and naked celebrities. Worrying that such a dark corner of the Internet has free reign and seemingly isn't moderated at all.

"Rein", and bless your little heart but 4chan is an unruly place, and there are worse on the interwebs. Much worse.

I wouldn't argue with that, but 4chan will be used as a scapegoat (scape-chicken? scape-egg?)) for this specific action. 

The whole idea of a scape goat was that everyone's sins would be symbolically placed on a goat and then the goat would be cast out into the wilderness. An awful waste of a goat, and in this case totally redundant because 4chan is the wasteland.

[TepidT2O]

The issue surely being, that these people are drawn to  4chan because of the way they are, rather than 4chan making these  people what they are

[Alan_X]

The whole idea of a scape goat was that everyone's sins would be symbolically placed on a goat and then the goat would be cast out into the wilderness. An awful waste of a goat, and in this case totally redundant because 4chan is the wasteland.

[BarryCrocker]

Jeb Bush adding his 2c "Look, stuff happens. There's always a crisis and the impulse is always to do something and it's not always the right thing to do."

[Redman0151]

Jeb Bush adding his 2c "Look, stuff happens. There's always a crisis and the impulse is always to do something and it's not always the right thing to do."

Like go all guns blazing into the Middle East following 9/11?

[TSC]

Shooters gonna shoot, Americans gonna die.

Any time I've been to America and it's not often, but have been there on a few ocassions this last couple years with work, I've loved the place.  So big, so diverse, so much to see.  But at the end of the day they still retain laws & rights which to be honest should have died with billy the fucking kid.

One of these years they'll realise it's 2015 & being able to gun your neighbour down is not a very neighbourly thing to do.

[RedZen]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89d_1411198955

[macca888]

Shooters gonna shoot, Americans gonna die.

Any time I've been to America and it's not often, but have been there on a few ocassions this last couple years with work, I've loved the place.  So big, so diverse, so much to see.  But at the end of the day they still retain laws & rights which to be honest should have died with billy the fucking kid.

One of these years they'll realise it's 2015 & being able to gun your neighbour down is not a very neighbourly thing to do.

That's harsh. I know he's a pain in the arse, but he does make the odd decent post.

[macca007]

Came across this...