Author Topic: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©  (Read 74210 times)

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #80 on: January 30, 2012, 09:08:55 am »
This is fun. I live in Whitechapel. I think i'll go check out some of these locations on a walk this week.

Living in the area might be of great help to me if I cannot find all the documentation I need this week.
I might definitely need a pair of eyes in London, to have a look in the Kelly’s Trade Directory of London 1881-2.

Always thought it was a Jill.

Haha Perhaps an Accomplice ? Jack & Jill
(Jack) Middle English Jakke, borrowed from Low German and Dutch pet forms "Jankin" and "Jackin", which come from "Jan" (the German version of John). "Jankin" meaning literally "Little John". The surname "Jenkins" also derives from "Jankin". Occasionally Jack is derived as an Anglicization of similar-sounding Jewish names.
(Pops tin hat on waiting for this theory to be totally trashed... :))

I’m not going to trash anyone else’s theory, on the contrary, I’m hoping to get at least 30 proposals from others before posting my theory (with copies of documents)

2. As Wooltonian said previously, the simplest answer may be the right one.

My theory is so simple it will blow your mind.
I’m only able to suggest something so simple, because of  the access we now have to documentation.  Documentation that has only been available in it’s current format since 1990.

Also I don't think any of the letters was written by a German, at least not by one that learned to write in a German school. The handwriting is very different

I would agree if I was talking about a German ‘Just off the boat’ but my man had lived in the UK at least 18 years prior to the murders. And he must have had fairly good knowledge of written English due to the Occupation  he held.

What order were they in, Karl?

You will find the order in Victims, dates of murders under names listed.

PLEASE Keep the thread rolling this week. As I will be spending a lot of time in the National Archives and local libraries getting photocopies of  relevant documents.
Try and encourage others to select a suspect and give a brief reason why they think he’s the man.

Will write again when I have copies of documentation

 :wave
« Last Edit: February 1, 2012, 08:43:29 am by WOOLTONIAN »
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Offline lachesis

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #81 on: January 30, 2012, 09:18:22 am »
Living in the area might be of great help to me if I cannot find all the documentation I need this week.
I might definitely need a pair of eyes in London, to have a look in the Kelly’s Trade Directory of London 1881-2.

Quick question - has your suspect already been listed or is it a brand new suspect? i.e. if I read the casebook stuff on the ripper will their name be mentioned in any way, shape or form from presented and collected evidence?

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #82 on: January 30, 2012, 09:35:09 am »

My theory is so simple it will blow your mind.
 :wave

They all committed suicide..?

:)
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Offline doc_antonio

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #83 on: January 30, 2012, 09:40:53 am »
Read the first page, great post, never really looked into the whole jack the ripper thing but im bookmarking it for lunchtime reading purposes.
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #84 on: January 30, 2012, 09:40:54 am »
They were all botched abortions!
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #85 on: January 30, 2012, 11:12:29 am »
fuck this thread is intriguing, loving the work Karl.

I remember seeing something on this a few years months back, about it being a German suspect who ended up getting on a boat to Manhattan where he ended up killing more women.
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Offline Finn Solomon

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #86 on: January 30, 2012, 12:17:09 pm »
Simple...simple solution...it was a policeman who did it?
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #87 on: January 30, 2012, 09:28:05 pm »
A few observations from reading the casebook.org site.

The tallest victim was 5' 7".  Given that Jack The Ripper was able to manually strangle his victims without noise before gently lowering their dead body to the ground and cutting their throat, it suggests he must have been very much taller than 5'7" and very strong.  If that's true, it does rule out a number of suspects.

There's much supposition that he must have fled the scene covered in blood, so how come no one noticed?  Given that Jack's MO was to strangle them first, the blood is not pumping when you cut, so there's no reason the killer would be 'covered' in blood.  Also, if you wish there to be no suspicion, just wear black.  In the dark, blood will not show easily on black clothing.

In order to get the victims in secluded locations even during the mass panic about Jack The Ripper without attracting attention or fuss, he must have seemed in some way 'safe' to go with - perhaps someone who looked respectable?

I think it's pretty safe to say that these were not Jack's first 'kills'.... because where would Jack have learned to strangle the victim first, THEN cut?  If the first victims were his first experiences, I don't think he'd necessarily think to strangle then cut.

It suggests someone who has planned and thought about how to kill his victims - and perhaps honed his skills through previous practice?  It also suggests someone of intelligence to have thought and planned in this way.

Anyone agree with any of these ideas?
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Offline TravisBickle

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #88 on: January 30, 2012, 09:46:17 pm »


 We have you now, Sam.
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Offline Alex Raisbeck

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Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #89 on: January 30, 2012, 09:56:58 pm »
I agree that he had probably killed before the murder of Mary Ann Nichols (the abdominal injuries increased with each canonical victim bar one) and that he,for some reason(probably familiarity) was able to allay the fears of the victims at the height of the murders but I'm not so sure about the point about his height-if the victim you refer to is Elizabeth 'long liz' Stride then there is evidence to suggest that she may have been a victim of another killer.
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #90 on: January 30, 2012, 10:04:29 pm »
No, it was the last victim that was 5'7", 'Long' Liz was much shorter, oddly enough.
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #91 on: January 30, 2012, 10:20:19 pm »
I remember seeing something on this a few years months back, about it being a German suspect who ended up getting on a boat to Manhattan where he ended up killing more women.

That's a lie, I had nothing to do with it. I don't even know any germans, and even if I did I certainly wouldn't lend them my set of long kniv.........shit.
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Offline Alex Raisbeck

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Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #92 on: January 30, 2012, 10:24:38 pm »
No, it was the last victim that was 5'7", 'Long' Liz was much shorter, oddly enough.
Of course-I remember that now(i've been relying on memory and am a little out of practice) Stride was something like 5'3"-I'd forgotten about the irony regarding her nickname!
I've always suspected that 'Jack' was either a patron of one of the doss houses in Dorset St or a regular at The Britannia and Ten Bells public houses and that his victims knew him by sight at least.
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Offline Scaryscouse

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #93 on: January 30, 2012, 10:56:17 pm »
Really enjoyed reading that, can't wait to see the theory you put forward.
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Offline weebroalan

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #94 on: January 31, 2012, 12:00:15 am »
Great read so far-very intriguing...

Offline mikeb58

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #95 on: January 31, 2012, 12:25:03 am »
Just reading this in work now, great stuff!

Like most people I've always been fascinated by this case.
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Offline Hij

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #96 on: January 31, 2012, 12:28:56 am »
I don't know enough to really guess or put forward my own claims/assertions, but would like to post to say I appreciate some of the stuff you've put forward. I watch a lot of murder documentaries about how the killer is caught etc and they do interest me (is this perverse or just natural?!). I just find the whole cat and mouse thing between criminals and the police, and then the back and forth between prosecution and defence very interesting.

This is quite possibly one of the more famous unsolved cases isn't it?

Anyway, yeah count me in as another who wants to see your theory- but like I said, it would take me too long to come to my own conclusions, so hopefully I can be counted as one of the 30 who is interested   :wave
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 12:31:10 am by Hij »
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Offline Marty 85

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #97 on: January 31, 2012, 12:37:34 am »
Great thread. I appreciate the effort that has gone into it WoolT!  :wave

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #98 on: January 31, 2012, 09:57:44 am »
Quick question - has your suspect already been listed or is it a brand new suspect? i.e. if I read the casebook stuff on the ripper will their name be mentioned in any way, shape or form from presented and collected evidence?

My suspect is 'Original' and does not appear on any suspects list.
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Offline Wish Matrix

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2012, 10:00:15 am »
My suspect is 'Original' and does not appear on any suspects list.

Oooh. This is definitely going to be epic.
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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #100 on: January 31, 2012, 10:10:10 am »
Anyone agree with any of these ideas?

Rox
Forgive me for touching on rude subjects but,
The height issue is plausible if they were both stood up at the time. but if the prostitute was kneeling down 'blowing the suspects mind' he could have been a midget. But I agree he was probably taller than 5'6
I also agree he must have been powerful and had big strong hands like most stranglers have.
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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #101 on: January 31, 2012, 10:12:00 am »
fuck this thread is intriguing, loving the work Karl.

I remember seeing something on this a few years months back, about it being a German suspect who ended up getting on a boat to Manhattan where he ended up killing more women.

I think you have two suspects mixed here

Tumblty was the man who fled to USA killing more women .
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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #102 on: January 31, 2012, 10:13:30 am »
Simple...simple solution...it was a policeman who did it?

That was the plot I mentioned earlier in the long running play 'Mousetrap'
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Offline Alex Raisbeck

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Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #103 on: January 31, 2012, 11:19:46 am »
I think you have two suspects mixed here

Tumblty was the man who fled to USA killing more women .
I think 'Scatman' may have been referring to Carl Feigenbaum who was the subject of a recent History Channel documentary which offered nothing new with the usual conjecture.
http://www.casebook.org/suspects/carl-feigenbaum.html
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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #104 on: January 31, 2012, 11:30:25 am »
UPDATE

Spent a gruelling few hours yesterday trawling through archives. Bloody hard work on the eyes, ended up having to buy a magnifying glass.

What I've found so far

I have found my suspect on
Birth Register, Hess, Cassell, Germany
1871 Census (9 Cambridge road, Bethnal Green) Journeyman Baker 34yo (single)
1881 Census (118 Rutland Street, Mile End) Foreman Baker 44yo  (With Wife)
1891 Census (249 Old street, Hoxton, Shoreditch) Baker 54yo (Wife Absent, still in Mile End)
1901 Census (31 Exmouth Street, Mile End Old Town) Foreman Baker 65yo (With Wife)
Death Certificate 1917 Mile End

the documentation is of poor quality as you would expect but it is readable.

Bethnal Green is a district of the East End of London, England and part of the London Borough of Tower Hamlets, with the far northern parts falling within the London Borough of Hackney.[citation needed] Located 3.3 miles (5.3 km) northeast of Charing Cross, it was historically an agrarian hamlet in the ancient parish of Stepney, Middlesex. Following population increases caused by the expansion of London during the 18th century, it was split off as the parish of Bethnal Green in 1743, becoming part of the Metropolis in 1855 and the County of London in 1889. The parish became a metropolitan borough in 1900 and the population peaked in 1901, entering a period of steady decline which lasted until 1981. The economic history of Bethnal Green is characterised by a shift away from agricultural provision for the City of London to market gardening, weaving and light industry, which has now all but disappeared. The quality of the built environment had deteriorated by the turn of the 20th century and was radically reformed by the aerial bombardment of World War II and the subsequent social housing developments. 173 people were killed at a single incident at Bethnal Green tube station in 1943. Bethnal Green has formed part of Greater London since 1965.

Mile End is an area within the East End of London, England, and part of the London Borough of Tower Hamlets. It is located 3.6 miles (5.8 km) east-northeast of Charing Cross. It developed on the London to Colchester road as one of the earliest suburbs of the City of London and the parish of Mile End Old Town became part of the metropolitan area of London in 1855.

Hoxton, Shoreditch is an area of London within the London Borough of Hackney in England. It is a built-up part of the inner city immediately to the north of the City of London, located 2.5 miles (4.0 km) east-northeast of Charing Cross.

Before anyone Jumps down my neck, I know all above so far only proves ;
1) He is an actual person
2) He lived in the Area at the time of the Murders
3) He worked in the Area of the Murders (At Night)
4) He would be physically strong (kneeding dough would give him strong hands and wrists)
5) He would have had access to Large Knives
6) As a Foreman he could have delagated work while he went walkabout.
7) His wifes name was 'Annie'
8 ) She could not have children

There is lots more research for me to do, but I will try and finish work ASAP

(to be continued)
 :wave
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 11:32:27 am by WOOLTONIAN »
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Offline richiedouglas

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #105 on: January 31, 2012, 12:28:57 pm »
You can only progress up to super-sleuth when you have a magnifying glass!!

Again, very interesting.

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #106 on: January 31, 2012, 12:39:28 pm »
Also I don't think any of the letters was written by a German, at least not by one that learned to write in a German school. The handwriting is very different from the German handwriting of that time. Up until the Nazis said it was 'Jewish', German kids learned a type of 'blackletter' script that looks quite different - the 's' looks nearly like a 'f', for example. Obviously handwriting can change, especially if the people you live with can't read it, but I don't think somebody would change their writing that much but still not improve their spelling at all.

Having spent a lot of time yesterday looking through German Birth records I cannot agree with you on above.
Althought German 'Print' is different in style, German Handwriting is uncannily similar to the Dear Boss letter written 25th September.

The "Dear Boss" letter was a message allegedly written by the notorious Victorian serial killer known as Jack the Ripper. It was postmarked and received on 27 September 1888, by the Central News Agency of London. It was forwarded to Scotland Yard on 29 September.
The message, like most alleged Ripper letters that followed, contains a number of spelling and punctuation errors. It reads:

Dear Boss,
I keep on hearing the police have caught me but they wont fix me just yet. I have laughed when they look so clever and talk about being on the right track. That joke about Leather Apron gave me real fits. I am down on whores and I shant quit ripping them till I do get buckled. Grand work the last job was. I gave the lady no time to squeal. How can they catch me now. I love my work and want to start again. You will soon hear of me with my funny little games. I saved some of the proper red stuff in a ginger beer bottle over the last job to write with but it went thick like glue and I cant use it. Red ink is fit enough I hope ha. ha. The next job I do I shall clip the ladys ears off and send to the police officers just for jolly wouldn't you. Keep this letter back till I do a bit more work, then give it out straight. My knife's so nice and sharp I want to get to work right away if I get a chance.

Good Luck. Yours truly
Jack the Ripper
Dont mind me giving the trade name

PS Wasnt good enough to post this before I got all the red ink off my hands curse it No luck yet. They say I'm a doctor now. ha ha


Initially this letter was considered to be just one of many hoaxes, but when the body of Catherine Eddowes was found with one earlobe severed on 30 September, the writer's promise to "clip the ladys ears off" attracted attention. The Metropolitan Police published handbills with facsimiles of it and the Saucy Jacky postcard (which had referred to the earlier message and was received before the first became public knowledge) hoping someone would recognize the handwriting, but nothing came of this effort. Many newspapers also reprinted the text in whole or in part. These two messages gained worldwide notoriety after their publication. It was the first time the "Jack the Ripper" name had been used to refer to the killer, and the term captured the imagination of the public. Soon hundreds of other letters claiming to be from "Jack the Ripper" were received, most copying key phrases from these letters

It is my belief now, that if ANY letter is genuine it is THIS ONE.

I am now coming across more and more coincidences.
I accept these cannot be taken as facts, but there are becoming too many coincidences to be ignored.
Reference to 'Ginger beer' in this letter seemed inoccuous, but didn't realise it was used in both BREAD and CAKE recipes in the 19th Century.

also
Jack the Ripper
Dont mind me giving the trade name

Dont mind me giving the trade name
Does anyone else find this a funny thing to write under your signature ?
Remember it, I will be drawing attention to it AGAIN

For those people taking part in this thread who may be of nervous disposition, please note
My Suspect has no Living Descendants
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 12:48:04 pm by WOOLTONIAN »
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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #107 on: January 31, 2012, 12:43:21 pm »
You can only progress up to super-sleuth when you have a magnifying glass!!

Again, very interesting.

hahahahaha
Elementary my dear Richie  ;D
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Offline scatman

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #108 on: January 31, 2012, 12:43:50 pm »
interesting mate, I'm anticipating more what your conclusion is than this bloody transfer window
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Offline J-Mc-

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #109 on: January 31, 2012, 12:46:14 pm »
It was no other than Mrs Lovett, Sweeney Todd's known accomplice who was indeed a baker.

...Or her husband.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2012, 12:52:40 pm »
It was no other than Mrs Lovett, Sweeney Todd's known accomplice who was indeed a baker.

...Or her husband.

hahahaha I like it mate.
Sadly, My Suspects wife ANNIE's maiden name I believe was 'Holland' and Daughter of a Jewish Jeweller.
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Offline Lawnmowerman

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #111 on: January 31, 2012, 12:53:28 pm »
Lived to 81. Did he die of natural causes? Think he could of kept those murders all to himself? Thought it was odd for psycho murderers who craved notoriety to take their deeds to the grave without recognition for them

Offline J-Mc-

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #112 on: January 31, 2012, 12:54:00 pm »
hahahaha I like it mate.
Sadly, My Suspects wife ANNIE's maiden name I believe was 'Holland' and Daughter of a Jewish Jeweller.

You could have let me feel smart for a bit longer mate! ;D

Really intriguing this mate, all credit to yourself for putting this amount of effort and research in for what looks to be a fascinating theory :thumbup

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #113 on: January 31, 2012, 01:24:31 pm »
How can someone turn on serial murder and then turn it off on a dime? Each murder was bloodier than the last, which suggests an ever-increasing bloodlust. Serial killers haven't been known to stop their march towards a bloody crescendo unless caught or killed.

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #114 on: January 31, 2012, 01:29:04 pm »
Lived to 81. Did he die of natural causes? Think he could of kept those murders all to himself? Thought it was odd for psycho murderers who craved notoriety to take their deeds to the grave without recognition for them

I must admit to being surprised myself.
When I initially found him in Hoxton 1891 I was hoping I would find him in Hoxton Lunatic Asylum, an infamous den of iniquity of the 19th century, but alas he wasn't.
He was however seperated from his wife at this time, who was still present in Mile End.
Curious seperation but I cannot find any reason why he would live 'close' but not with her.
By the 1901 census they are back together.

How can someone turn on serial murder and then turn it off on a dime? Each murder was bloodier than the last, which suggests an ever-increasing bloodlust. Serial killers haven't been known to stop their march towards a bloody crescendo unless caught or killed.

But as we all know, he was never caught and there is no record of him being killed.
I have always thought he must have been either Jailed (for another crime), institutionalised or moved away.
But There are so many unsolved crimes on the books (cold cases) it makes you wonder not only why they stopped or even why they started.
I do believe however that any blood lust Jack had certainly reached its crescendo in Mary Kelly(Last Victim), she was butchered beyond any recognition.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 01:36:43 pm by WOOLTONIAN »
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #115 on: January 31, 2012, 02:04:55 pm »
so are we there yet? :D god this is better than a book!
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #116 on: January 31, 2012, 02:18:46 pm »
When were those census' taken? Hardly yearly would it, every decade is it? He could of been split up from the wife at the time of the murders, and just went on a mad one. Weird coincidence his wifes name is Annie alright

On the 'dear boss' thing. Would boss have been a term used frequently back then, used by londoners and other english folk?

I remember when i first started working doing gardens, on of the customers was an elderly German lady. Lovely woman, she moved to Dublin after the war and married a local. She'd been living in Dublin for decades but she still had a bit of the german accent. One word she was very,very fond of was 'boss'.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 02:21:50 pm by Lawnmowerman »

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #117 on: January 31, 2012, 02:21:41 pm »
I've always wondered why the Met never involved Sherlock Holmes. He was active throughout the period and solved many unusual cases at the time.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #118 on: January 31, 2012, 03:46:57 pm »
I think you have two suspects mixed here

Tumblty was the man who fled to USA killing more women .

I was under the impression James Kelly was the man who fled to USA killing more women, he was never listed as an official suspect in the time of the investigation though.

Being a bit interested in the subject, but admittedly an amateur who has not spent too much time I always fancied Jacob Levy. A poor butcher driven insane by syphilis (and getting syphilis from a prostitute would certainly give him motive - revenge) who admitted he felt the urge to do deeds his conscious could not deal well with. Just before he got removed from the street the murders happened. There is also quite a lot of circumstantial evidence  such as a witness recognizing someone with Mary Jane Kelly just before the murder who also thought he had seen this same person in Levy's home street. There's more to it than that, but nothing conclusive in any way obviously. Everything I've read about him has pointed towards him being connected to the murders though.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 04:15:23 pm by garumn »

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #119 on: January 31, 2012, 04:06:28 pm »
When were those census' taken? Hardly yearly would it, every decade is it? He could of been split up from the wife at the time of the murders, and just went on a mad one. Weird coincidence his wifes name is Annie alright


That's an interesting theory. Could it be that Jack stopped because he reconciled with his wife Annie?

Love this thread Wooltonian, thanks for posting it!