Author Topic: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©  (Read 74164 times)

Offline Lawnmowerman

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #120 on: January 31, 2012, 04:18:40 pm »
That's an interesting theory. Could it be that Jack stopped because he reconciled with his wife Annie?

Love this thread Wooltonian, thanks for posting it!
Possibly. If theres a ten year gap between each census, they could of been on and off for those final few years between 1881 and 1891. In 1891 he's down as living alone, 3 years after the murders, so i doubt he stopped solely to get back with the wife, unless they got back together and had another break up round 1889, 1890. The wife needs some investigating.

Offline Mouth

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #121 on: January 31, 2012, 04:23:14 pm »
Facinating stuff Karl, should look at doing a book or something, if your theory stands up would be of interest to tv producers as well I'm sure.

Personally I dont believe the Ripper ever stopped, dont think he could, might have gone dormant for some reason and then been more careful about his activities when he resumed.
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Offline garumn

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #122 on: January 31, 2012, 04:39:32 pm »
I am not convinced that the name Ann or Annie is as important as suggested here though, especially considering that it is far from certain the 5 victims were in fact 5, and not 3, 4 or even 7, and none of the other possible victims has Ann(ie) in their names.

Offline Paragon

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity Revealed
« Reply #123 on: January 31, 2012, 05:02:25 pm »
He must have been known or seen often by someone in the area otherwise he wouldn't have been able to stalk his next victim.

How do you know he stalked his victims, Wooltonian?
Would be even more fun if you could stand up to a hook to the jaw for being a snidey bastard. But then that's reality! No one needs to 'swim or drown' in a coward's paradise.

Offline Welshred

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #124 on: January 31, 2012, 05:04:00 pm »
I am not convinced that the name Ann or Annie is as important as suggested here though, especially considering that it is far from certain the 5 victims were in fact 5, and not 3, 4 or even 7, and none of the other possible victims has Ann(ie) in their names.

That's the thing though, their nicknames may have been Annie but their real names something else? If indeed he did split up with his wife, Annie, then went on a rampage by murdering prostitutes called Annie then that's a real motive. Also, a reconciliation with his wife could also be a reason as to why he stopped his killing. We'll never know fully for sure but it's not something that can be dismissed totally in my opinion.

Offline Lawnmowerman

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #125 on: January 31, 2012, 05:08:35 pm »
Frequents watering holes, keeping an ear out for prostitutes that went by the name Annie or Anne

Offline garumn

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #126 on: January 31, 2012, 05:10:16 pm »
Also, a reconciliation with his wife could also be a reason as to why he stopped his killing. We'll never know fully for sure but it's not something that can be dismissed totally in my opinion.

I completely agree you can't discount anything in the case, not even the letters, everyone of which most experts say are hoaxes (with the possible exception of the Dear Boss letter). What makes this case so interesting that people like us are discussing it 120+ years after the fact is the amount of factors, hearsay, circumstantial evidence, hard evidence, not to mention the amount of suspects. It might not even be any of the people mentioned by the police, media, cold case investigators etc.

I still like Jacob Levy for it though, the one thing I am not sure of is that he would have the surgical know-how to remove a human organ such as a liver or uterus without damaging surrounding organs. Sounds like a tall order for a butcher to me, but you never know.

Offline Mouth

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #127 on: January 31, 2012, 05:22:57 pm »
How do you know he stalked his victims, Wooltonian?
Its a reasonable assumption going by what we now know about serial killer behaviour patterns.
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Offline Mother.F

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #128 on: January 31, 2012, 08:01:35 pm »
UPDATE

Interesting. And engrossing. You have me reading that whole casebook site.


Facinating stuff Karl, should look at doing a book or something, if your theory stands up would be of interest to tv producers as well I'm sure.


Yes. And Wooltonian, you should also think about protecting your ideas somehow, so that someone else doesn't nick them and then do a book.

Offline Wish Matrix

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #129 on: February 1, 2012, 02:03:03 am »
Aaaah. The suspense is killing me. :(
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Offline lachesis

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #130 on: February 1, 2012, 08:37:20 am »
Captured a bit of imagination this. I've read two books in the past three days on JTR.

Seems to be quite a lot of theories and suspects. I'm not harbouring towards any I've seen named yet but what do people think about the possibility of a fisherman? Not sure if there were fishmarkets etc. back in the day but the times would be ideal for boats landing with new stock for early morning freshness. They obviously use knives and hooks for filleting and gutting.

Not sure about fishing patterns either but with the last being in November, perhaps the killer had to move to follow the fish shoals?

As I say someone can probably disprove this simply just a  thought I had.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #131 on: February 1, 2012, 10:00:43 am »
I've always wondered why the Met never involved Sherlock Holmes. He was active throughout the period and solved many unusual cases at the time.

There is an urban legend that Joseph Bell was consulted.

Also fictionally, there is a long history of consulting Holmes.

http://www.sherlockian.net/england/ripper.html

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #132 on: February 1, 2012, 10:13:20 am »
How do you know he stalked his victims, Wooltonian?

Sorry perhaps I should have made that point a bit clearer.
I didn't mean Just stalking a person. I believe he must have noted 'likely areas' and Known 'Prostitute patches' also.

Facinating stuff Karl, should look at doing a book or something, if your theory stands up would be of interest to tv producers as well I'm sure.

Yes. And Wooltonian, you should also think about protecting your ideas somehow, so that someone else doesn't nick them and then do a book.

I thought about this for all of 2 minutes.
But I have never sought financial gain or notoriety for any of my stories or books.
I write for personal satisfaction and others enjoyment.
My hope in starting this, was only to add another suspect to the list. At the end of the day I will never be able to prove my theory to everyone’s satisfaction.

My idea is based on the most simple explanation.
As previously stated “the most simple answer is so obvious it stares you in the face”


If census information  or electoral roll registers would have been available to the Police in 1890 don’t you think the Police would have used it to check or rule out suspects ?
We take information like this for granted nowadays with search engines, but with 100 years data protection, the nearest census of the time only became available in 1992. And even then, to start a search you need both Name and location.

MEANS, MOTIVE and OPPORTUNITY have always been the cornerstones of any Police Enquiry.
Personally I would always add GEOGRAPHICAL PRESENCE.
A person living in Edinburgh  could have had (MMO) but he would be excluded on (GP).

I believe I have already offered ‘Means’  by him having access to Long Knives in his workplace at night.

I believe I have already offered ‘Opportunity’ as a Night worker in Whitechapel  who was in the position to slip out while work continued.

I believe I have already offered ‘Geographical Presence’ by him living and working in the area for at least 30 years.

‘Motive’ was and always is going to be the hardest to prove.
But being childless in an era of families having a child (yearly) in my mind suggests the possibility of sexual tension. Being a married couple without children in this era really was rare. In comparison my GG Grandmother had 17 children in this period.
I suspect being born in Germany could indicate Anti-Semitic tendencies.

Putting all the above information together, even in my mind is not enough to have him elected to ‘Suspect Status’
But I have a trump card up my sleeve.
The final clue, which together with above will leave you all ‘Gobsmacked’
A Final clue that was unavailable to anyone prior to 1992.


(to be continued)
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Offline Ycuzz

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #133 on: February 1, 2012, 10:35:54 am »
Well, go on then!!

:)

Good work Karl, thanks.
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Offline Mark Walters

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #134 on: February 1, 2012, 10:52:57 am »
I'm on the edge of my seat...!
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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - THE FINAL CLUE !
« Reply #135 on: February 1, 2012, 11:14:28 am »
I hereby offer into evidence, what got me started on this weird and wonderful journey.
The piece of evidence that started me trawling through the dusty archives of the 19th Century.
The piece of evidence that started my search of the 1881 & 1891 census which spans the "RIPPER Murders"

Unlike the other letters that informs us of events past.
This letter also predicts a "FUTURE Event" which is unique. "the clipping of the ears of the next victim"
But the 'bombshell', the biggest 'taunt' to the Police, IT ACTUALLY CONTAINS HIS NAME !

© Wooltonian
« Last Edit: February 1, 2012, 11:56:55 am by WOOLTONIAN »
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Offline Welshred

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #136 on: February 1, 2012, 11:27:48 am »
I can't for the life of me see another name in that letter...does anyone else?

Offline Sarah Deane

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #137 on: February 1, 2012, 11:32:02 am »
She's a crank. Her claim that it was Walter Sickert is garbage.

From memory, wasn't it the case that Sickert wasn't even in the country for three of the murders...? Simple facts, which render a whole book useless (and schoolgirl errors, at that).

Offline Ycuzz

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #138 on: February 1, 2012, 11:32:31 am »
Eh?

What, where, who?
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Offline lachesis

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #139 on: February 1, 2012, 11:32:58 am »
I can't for the life of me see another name in that letter...does anyone else?

Previous murder:
That joke about Leather Apron gave me real fits. I am down on whores and I shant quit ripping them till I do get buckled. Grand work the last job was. I gave the lady no time to squeal.

Future murder:
The next job I do I shall clip the ladys ears off and send to the police officers just for jolly wouldn't you.

Name of the killer:
Yours truly
Jack the Ripper

Dont mind me giving the trade name


That's how I interpreted it?

Offline Ycuzz

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #140 on: February 1, 2012, 11:34:31 am »
His real name was Jack?
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Offline Welshred

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #141 on: February 1, 2012, 11:35:10 am »
Previous murder:
That joke about Leather Apron gave me real fits. I am down on whores and I shant quit ripping them till I do get buckled. Grand work the last job was. I gave the lady no time to squeal.

Future murder:
The next job I do I shall clip the ladys ears off and send to the police officers just for jolly wouldn't you.

Name of the killer:
Yours truly
Jack the Ripper

Dont mind me giving the trade name


That's how I interpreted it?

Is it that simple that his name is Jack Ripper but he's just put the between the two?

Offline lachesis

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #142 on: February 1, 2012, 11:35:47 am »
I'm guessing Wooltonians theory is based on a bakery called something similar or a guy actually called Jack/John Ripper?

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #143 on: February 1, 2012, 11:35:51 am »
I can't for the life of me see another name in that letter...does anyone else?

Your not alone mate, people have been looking at that letter for 122 YEARS.
I reckon over a million pair have eyes have seen this letter, but NONE have seen what I have seen.
UNTIL NOW !
« Last Edit: February 1, 2012, 11:38:19 am by WOOLTONIAN »
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Offline Welshred

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #144 on: February 1, 2012, 11:38:25 am »
I'm guessing Wooltonians theory is based on a bakery called something similar or a guy actually called Jack/John Ripper?

Ah that's not a bad shout with the John Ripper bit there. It can't be that simple though can it?

Offline lachesis

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #145 on: February 1, 2012, 11:40:43 am »
Wooltonian is being a cocktease :P

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #146 on: February 1, 2012, 11:44:21 am »
Exerpts from the two Census

1881 Census
John RIPPER - Head - Married - Male - Age44 - born in Hess Caslel F, Germany Occupation Foreman Baker
Annie RIPPER Wife M Female 32 London Mile End , London, Middlesex, England
Dwelling 118 Rutland St , Mile End,
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341104
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0474 / 10 Page Number 13

1891 Census
ANN Ripper 41 Mile End Old Town, Mile End Old Town Western
John Ripper 54 Shoreditch, Hoxton New Town

I don't think anyone will dispute John = Jack

But who the bloody hell would have thought to look through the Census of the time for

Name : John / JACK RIPPER
Location : Whitechapel (EAST END)

Apart from me that is
© Wooltonian
I do have photocopies of the Original census before anyone doubts above. And as soon as I can get access to scanner I'll post actual copies.
« Last Edit: February 1, 2012, 12:05:43 pm by WOOLTONIAN »
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Offline Ycuzz

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #147 on: February 1, 2012, 11:45:43 am »
My spine. It's chilling..

Also,

[...] Wooltonian, you should also think about protecting your ideas somehow, so that someone else doesn't nick them and then do a book.

Yep.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #148 on: February 1, 2012, 11:45:52 am »
That is...wow. I don't think it's been proposed before.

So Jack the Ripper...is Jack Ripper.
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Offline Welshred

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed
« Reply #149 on: February 1, 2012, 11:47:33 am »
That is...wow. I don't think it's been proposed before.

So Jack the Ripper...is Jack Ripper.

Turns out it is that simple! If only they knew? haha

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #150 on: February 1, 2012, 12:04:19 pm »
Occam's razor, also known as Ockham's razor, and sometimes expressed in Latin as lex parsimoniae (the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness),

is a principle that generally recommends that, from among competing hypotheses, selecting the one that makes the fewest new assumptions usually provides the correct one, and that the simplest explanation will be the most plausible until evidence is presented to prove it false.

 :wave
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Offline Mark Walters

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #151 on: February 1, 2012, 12:09:23 pm »
So why did he stop killing? Especially if he was still alive and, as has been proved, serial killers continue in an ever-increasing frenzy until caught!

I just don't get it.  Especially as he was still living in the area.  Has his name cropped up as a suspect before?
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Offline Welshred

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #152 on: February 1, 2012, 12:15:01 pm »
So why did he stop killing? Especially if he was still alive and, as has been proved, serial killers continue in an ever-increasing frenzy until caught!

I just don't get it.  Especially as he was still living in the area.  Has his name cropped up as a suspect before?

Be interesting to hear Wooltonian's theory behind why he stopped killing but the only thing that I can really see from the evidence he's posted is that he may have killed while being estranged from his wife and then stopped after they reconciled? If the name Annie is of any significance then he may have killed prostitutes called Annie or nicknamed Annie.

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #153 on: February 1, 2012, 12:17:36 pm »
im confused, whats his name? :D

and dude, make a bloody book, get a manuscript typed up pronto!
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Offline kevindublin

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #154 on: February 1, 2012, 12:20:33 pm »
Fascinating reading.

Should defintely be published somewere though, some one is bound to steal all this info, and make a killing (pardon the pun)

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #155 on: February 1, 2012, 12:21:32 pm »
Fascinating. I wonder how common the last name Ripper was? Why didnt the coppers think of this?
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #156 on: February 1, 2012, 12:22:25 pm »
Occam's razor, also known as Ockham's razor, and sometimes expressed in Latin as lex parsimoniae (the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness),

is a principle that generally recommends that, from among competing hypotheses, selecting the one that makes the fewest new assumptions usually provides the correct one, and that the simplest explanation will be the most plausible until evidence is presented to prove it false.

 :wave

That always reminds me of the old Sherlock Holmes joke.

Sherlock Holmes and Watson went camping. After sharing a good meal and a bottle of wine, they retire to their tent for the night. At about 3 a.m. Holmes nudges Watson and asks, "Watson, look up into the sky and tell me what you see?" Watson said, "I see millions of stars." Holmes asks, "And, what does that tell you?" Watson then replies, "Astronomically, it tells me there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, it tells me that Saturn is in Leo. Theologically, it tells me that God is great and we are small and insignificant. Horologically, it tells me that it's about 3 AM. Meteorologically, it tells me that we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it tell you, Holmes?"Holmes retorts, "Someone has stolen our tent."
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #157 on: February 1, 2012, 12:22:39 pm »
thats brilliantly simple WOOL, havent seen that name amongst a suspect list and the information is really interesting, you should deffo copywrite this and write a book...

Fascinating

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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #158 on: February 1, 2012, 12:24:34 pm »
Can I ask why you think he signed it Jack THE Ripper? I don't understand why you'd put the in front of your name? And if it's a trade name wouldn't 'ripper' maybe just be related to his occupation (fish gutting or something similar?) and his first name is just Jack or John?
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Re: Jack the Ripper - Identity to be Revealed ©
« Reply #159 on: February 1, 2012, 12:27:55 pm »
Can I ask why you think he signed it Jack THE Ripper? I don't understand why you'd put the in front of your name? And if it's a trade name wouldn't 'ripper' maybe just be related to his occupation (fish gutting or something similar?) and his first name is just Jack or John?

IMO, it was a way to fool the police into searching for a mythical figure who was indeed real.

The 'the' between the first and surname has sent people searching for the true identity for years. By simply inserting 'the' between the names, it's both simple yet genius in the way that it hid his identity in plain view of the world.