Topic: The Tablet Computing Thread

[wacko]

I write books and the whole publishing industry is going gaga over this fucking thing. Traditional book sales are slumping and the only way publishers can flog copies is heavily discounted in supermarkets or in 3 for 2 deals - where they take the hit, not the bookseller. Stephanie Meyer's vampires, Dan Brown's hokum and Steig Larsson's pervy hack stories have triple-handedly kept things afloat, and midlist authors are getting cut right, left and centre as they pile money on sure things, or what they perceive as sure things, like recipe books from Michael McIntyre and stuff.

Ebooks sales are growing, but not quickly enough. The Kindle is a bit tinny, as well as undersupported over here, and the Sony Reader cumbersome and staid. A gadget that could do for a books what the IPod has achieved for music, or just a tenth of what it has done, is what the whole industry is crying out for. If people like the look and feel, and if it comes down in price, then it could take off. Then

Will people buy it? Who knows? But alot of people in publishing are down on their knees praying they will, and are happy to take the consequences, illegal downloads etc

There won't be much illegal downloading on it, same as there isn't on the iPhone. Apple have made the hurdles high enough and the barriers low enough that most people will just pay. That is, of course, assuming the publishing industry doesn't try to gouge them, like the music and film industries have tried to, and the publishing industry and/or Amazon currently are on the Kindle, specifically whoever decided to lock the books forever to the Kindle with DRM and to charge nearly the same price for something with a fraction of the value of a real book.

Like the App Store, the Book Store (or whatever) will attract casual readers much more than serious readers, so I think it'll be much more important to newspaper and magazine publishers than book publishers, unless they've had a real good think about their business model and the two App Stores.

As for the midlist authors, it seems the long tail did for them.

[wacko]

The innovation is in the software. You can't say the app store has been boring and lazy. The new device will allow more and different software for many things. It's just hardware yes, but it's an enabler.

It is awesome, but I'd be very surprised to see it out in the mass market in the next 18 months. Microsoft aren't very good at hardware, I know, I work with them everyday. Microsoft RoundTable (neat 360 video conferencing), couldn't handle it after 2-3 years of problems, outted it to Polycom (now CX 5000). Surface? Nice idea, where's the manufacturing and supply? There is none. Surface 2? Prototype. They can make a few good web cams and then they're behind in those stakes.

Xbox is the only thing they got right. There was a fucking huge market for it so they went for it, and still partly outsourced. If Apple stokes the market with the iPad, expect this thing to be 18 months behind. By then, if it's that cool, I'll gladly move back to a MSFT device for a tablet. I wouldn't hold my breath for Natal either.

If you want to see what MSFT are envisioning the future as, then look at this: http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090228/microsoft-office-labs-vision-2019-video/ 2nd video down (5 minute one). I was told by an exec at product in Redmond that 99% of the technology to do most of this exists today. Just it'll take a while to get around to it, due to manufacturing costs, product roadmaps and end user culture. They are relying heavily on the Generation Y/Millenials to come storming into the end of this decade and the beginning of the next.

That looks cool, but I have zero confidence in MS being able to bring to market something even half as cool as that demo. The Xbox was probably sheer luck, cos they fucked up the Xbox 360 royally. About 30% of them failed, which is particularly bad when you're losing money on every machine as it is...

It's a shame, really, because I'd love a Surface table.

[Zizou]

If I had money to burn I'd get one, as tech is a rewarding hobby..but sadly I'm skint..and if I had the money, I'd buy more RAM for my PC currently I think.

[wacko]

The problem with that Microsoft thing and proper tablets like the Fujitsu lifebooks is simply price. The lifebooks are absolutely amazing that I've used. Perfect to detatch and use as a tablet or dock with the provided keyboard.

Apple have basically stripped it down to make if affordable and stuck their logo on it. Acer could do the same but it probably wouldn't sell even a third of what Apple can shift with its brand. I think it lacks core fundamentals to be truly useful to anyone. If it can't multitask, does that mean you couldn't VPN to work then open an RDP session to a terminal server? I can't believe that it's even sellable if that's how severely limited it is.

Because it's aimed at people for whom an iPod Touch is too small, not at people who want or need a proper computer. Apple wants them to buy a MacBook.

The difference between an iPad (*shudders at the name*) and an Acer/Asus/another PC manufacturer's tablet is the same as the difference between an iPhone and other smartphones: the software. Everything else is just another Windows or Android tablet. They will all do more than the iPad, but they sure as shit won't be as easy to use, which is important for someone who sees it as a big iPod not a castrated computer, which is exactly how Apple will market it.

[neel2108]

I do envisage the iPad (what a shit fucking name) will look a lot better once OS 4.0 is released for it. It's at 3.2 and at a primitive stage right now.

 I think they might have rushed announcing it hoping that the familiarity of the OS would appeal to people looking to pick it up and just use it. In fact the opposite has happened in many ways, people were expecting something new, and got something that looks like a glorified iPod touch.

The UI is just too simplistic for a device like that at the moment. They needed to find the perfect medium between iPhone OS and OSX, and they didn't, or should I say they haven't yet.

I think engineering wise its a fantastic piece of hardware, but the software is the biggest let down.

[lachesis]

The difference between an iPad (*shudders at the name*) and an Acer/Asus/another PC manufacturer's tablet is the same as the difference between an iPhone and other smartphones: the software. Everything else is just another Windows or Android tablet. They will all do more than the iPad, but they sure as shit won't be as easy to use, which is important for someone who sees it as a big iPod not a castrated computer, which is exactly how Apple will market it.

So it's for mongs then, or people who use phones like this:



My honest opinion is that these devices were slightly too late for the blog explosion which quickly busted after its boom. It got a bit lucky with the popularity of a particular social networking site, and is scrabbling frantically trying to integrate the next big thing (throwing ebook readers on for example). The trouble is no-one know what it is going to be.

The all time top paid apps seem to be games, which tells me one thing - people are fucking bored and have nothing to do on them. The only thing that has wowed me about Apple the last few years has been the quality of their internet browser on portable devices.

[royhendo]

I'm sat having my tea in a restaurant on my own at the moment (sad bastard) and two of the groups around me are talking about the iPad. The third table has a bird who's pregnant but wants to dump her boyfriend. That's probably the only reason why nobody on that table is mentioning it. Meanwhile at work, everybody was talking about the iPad.

Apple have the genie trapped in an iBottle. 

[Garstonite]

It's utterly pointless.

When's it out?

[Barney_Rubble]

An electric breadboard with a clock.

[Garstonite]

An electric breadboard with a clock.

Worth £500 of anyone's money.

[wacko]

So it's for mongs then, or people who use phones like this:

No, it's just not for people who want a computer.

My honest opinion is that these devices were slightly too late for the blog explosion which quickly busted after its boom. It got a bit lucky with the popularity of a particular social networking site, and is scrabbling frantically trying to integrate the next big thing (throwing ebook readers on for example). The trouble is no-one know what it is going to be.

The all time top paid apps seem to be games, which tells me one thing - people are fucking bored and have nothing to do on them. The only thing that has wowed me about Apple the last few years has been the quality of their internet browser on portable devices.

On the other hand, the next big thing is likely targeting the iPhone as a core platform, anyway.

Mobile Safari was the standout application on the iPhone, but I thought the entire UI was very impressive.

I think the fact that games are no. 1 says rather that people like playing games more than, say, reading the news. I'm not sure it reflects negatively on the iPhone. After all, there are plenty of excellent educational and informational apps on the App Store, too.

[GBF]

That looks cool, but I have zero confidence in MS being able to bring to market something even half as cool as that demo. The Xbox was probably sheer luck, cos they fucked up the Xbox 360 royally. About 30% of them failed, which is particularly bad when you're losing money on every machine as it is...

It's a shame, really, because I'd love a Surface table.

xbox failed because its electronics went lead-free....PS3 as well suffered.   Lead-free related failures will occur more and more in vehicles and other medical devices from now on

regarding "surface table"...there was one guy on Dragon's den who designed one but they laughed at him

[wacko]

xbox failed because its electronics went lead-free....PS3 as well suffered.   Lead-free related failures will occur more and more in vehicles and other medical devices from now on

Sure, but they didn't have 30% failure rates. MS fucked up the 360 big time in their usual manner, i.e. business decisions overriding technical ones.

Some problems weren't solder:

They don't overheat due to PB Free. They over heat due to too much power dissipated in too small of an area, w/o a sufficient thermal management design to take the heat away from the junction of the transistors on the chips, the packages themselves, and the mobo.

Some were:

Manufacturers new to PB free tend to err on the low temp side thinking they are saving the parts reliability wise from a large thermal load. What they are really doing is not reflowing the PB free solder enough to make a good joint.

They didn't care:

Manufacturing processes at eall levels of suppliers were immature and not in control. Initial end to end yields were in the mid 30%. Low yields always indicate serious design and manufacturing defects. Management chose to continue to ship anyways, and keep the lines running while trying to solve problems and bring the yields up. Whenever something failed and there was a question about whether the test result was false, they would remove that test, retest and ship, or see if the unit would boot a game and run briefly and then ship.

[Kite]

I can't understand how anybody is impressed with Dom Joly version of the Iphone/Ipod touch.  Its shite. 

[GBF]

Sure, but they didn't have 30% failure rates. MS fucked up the 360 big time in their usual manner, i.e. business decisions overriding technical ones.

Some problems weren't solder:

Some were:

They didn't care:

true...the heat wasnt being dissipated well, I think they decided to make the ASIC in house for cost cutting (Microsoft & hardware = ) and they cock that up.  But now the ASIC is from their usual supplier so there is less problem.  But those level of heat would have been ok with leaded solder, I suppose they used leaded parameters in their simulations.  Thats the price you pay to get your product out first with numerous changes and challenges.

[Alf]

The cheapest one in  the US is $500 dollars no doubt it would be £500 over here.

[wacko]

Thats the price you pay to get your product out first with numerous changes and challenges.

I can see the logic behind that, but that's not the kind of company I want making my stuff...

[timiano]

That is the core target apple go after. And I agree with you.

tim, how can the MS one be 18 months behind the apple one if (going by the video) it's far superior? Or do you simply mean it's lost that time to get it;s place in the market, ie like the Zune?

Yes, I mean even if MSFT wanted to take on the iPad with that, it's going to be 18 months until they get something out to the masses. Maybe longer.

[GBF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTzhXMbOWHE&feature=player_embedded

[djphal]

wont be getting one, its just a big ipod!

[djphal]

The hybrid tablet/netbook from Lenovo sounds better.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-5DYuVN6nuY&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;fs=1&amp;hd=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-5DYuVN6nuY&amp;hl=en_GB&amp;fs=1&amp;hd=1</a>

that looks very impressive

[Alan_X]

The all time top paid apps seem to be games, which tells me one thing - people are fucking bored and have nothing to do on them. The only thing that has wowed me about Apple the last few years has been the quality of their internet browser on portable devices.

Or it could be that email, browsing, media playback and downloads, contact management, messaging, maps, calendar - in fact most of the  things I need for business - are all there from the off and nicely integrated. Of the apps I've paid for the most expensive is QuickOffice (5.99) which allows me to edit Microsoft Office documents a time manager for recording billable hours and Pastebot.

Ironically I had a Nokia smartphone before I got an iPhone and although it could multi-task, I hardly ever bothered and used to play patience on it because it was so unfriendly to work with. Getting software for it was a fucking nightmare and ther truth is it was actually a complete pain in the arse for anything other than making calls and very basic email. The iPhone has already radically improved the amount of useful time I have in a day - same for the my co-director.

The more I think about it the more I can see how this might be perfect for me - in addition to my laptop - not instead of it. I have a proper laptop and want to keep it. I don't see the point in going for a downsized laptop (netbook) when I would still want a full-sized laptop anyway, just because it's a little bit lighter and with longer battery life. I need a full-size screen for CAD, 3D modeling, Photoshop and other presentation work and also because I sometimes need a decent sized screen for presenting to clients.

I've just lugged the fucking laptop home again, as I do three or four nights a week, because I can't do everything I need to do on the iPhone. Not because I don't have the software on the iPhone but because the screen and keyboard are too small.

I don't know how much people charge their time at but if I got five extra minutes productivity per day it would pay for itself in three, maybe four months.

[Jimmy Conway]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTzhXMbOWHE&feature=player_embedded

Looks a bit laggy at times, with the touch. But defo better than the iTampon.

[Alan_X]

that looks very impressive

So twice as expensive - really laggy touchscreen (watch how slowly he had to turn it or drag his finger) and some half-arsed PC hybrid thing where it becomes a screen for a netbook PC?...

What's the market for that thing?... Basically it's saying "we have no idea what a tablet computer is meant to be so let's go back to the old safe model..." Just like all those ones with the twisty-turny screens that have been on the market for years and still haven't taken off. I remember one of the Design directors at Selfridges showing off with one in 2003... it lasted about a month before he fucked it off and that was only because he was too proud to admit it was a waste of space.

People have to understand what the fuck it is they are buying. That Lenovo thing isn't a tablet it's a netbook with a detachable screen. BUt then if you've got a lightweight netbook... err... why do you want to take the screen off and lose the benefit of the more powerful processor?


It's "better" because it has more "stuff" but what is that stuff for?

[Kiko Narváez]

not sure if it was posted earlier on here, but i found this on fail blog

[djphal]

So twice as expensive - really laggy touchscreen (watch how slowly he had to turn it or drag his finger) and some half-arsed PC hybrid thing where it becomes a screen for a netbook PC?...

What's the market for that thing?... Basically it's saying "we have no idea what a tablet computer is meant to be so let's go back to the old safe model..." Just like all those ones with the twisty-turny screens that have been on the market for years and still haven't taken off. I remember one of the Design directors at Selfridges showing off with one in 2003... it lasted about a month before he fucked it off and that was only because he was too proud to admit it was a waste of space.

People have to understand what the fuck it is they are buying. That Lenovo thing isn't a tablet it's a netbook with a detachable screen. BUt then if you've got a lightweight netbook... err... why do you want to take the screen off and lose the benefit of the more powerful processor?


It's "better" because it has more "stuff" but what is that stuff for?

why are you shouting at me?

I did think it looked a bit laggy to be honest, I wont be buying either though, I am happy with my ipod touch and my laptop

The more I think about it the more I can see how this might be perfect for me - in addition to my laptop - not instead of it. I have a proper laptop and want to keep it.

why would you want both? surely if Apple had put more effort into it you wouldnt need both?

im only asking Alan so please be nice to me, I dont like it when you shout at me

[lurganboy]

I don't know how much people charge their time at but if I got five extra minutes productivity per day it would pay for itself in three, maybe four months.

Alan mate, you would be a master of the universe of you didn't post on this site.

Personally I am foaming at the mouth for one of these things. It looks as if it would perfectly hone my own work/home digital requirements in one cool looking thing. At a decent price too. I've already registered for one, and I am not an 'early adopter'. More a luddite.

[Alan_X]

why are you shouting at me?

I did think it looked a bit laggy to be honest, I wont be buying either though, I am happy with my ipod touch and my laptop

why would you want both? surely if Apple had put more effort into it you wouldnt need both?

im only asking Alan so please be nice to me, I dont like it when you shout at me

Boo!... 

OK Why do I want both?...

I own and run an Architectural practice. As part of my work I need to be able to do complex cad drawings and also do a lot of detailed 3-D modelling and rendering. I do a lot of Photoshop work as well - both for presentation and image correction. For that I need a good processor and a decent sized screen - not just resolution but physical size - to prevent eyestrain.

I also regularly give presentations to developers, galleries and other clients when I don't want to, or can't use a projector. Again- I need a decent sized screen for that. I also need a computer that looks the part. If I'm pitching a £15 million development I don't want to be using a small net-book.

I could just use a desktop but I sometimes need to work at weekends for deadlines and then it's handy to be able to take the lap top home.

However there is a lot of stuff that I do such as dealing with emails, writing reports, preparing bid documents, financial planning putting together presentations, where I really don't need the full power of the laptop. I do a lot of that stuff in the mornings and evenings or on the train to and from work (about an hour a day). Not only do I not need the full power of the laptop - it's heavy and a pain in the arse to use if the train is really busy.

As I said, I'll always have a phone with me so I don't really care about built-in 3G - the WiFi model would do me fine. So a device about the size of an A4 piece of paper and half the weight of a netbook that can do all the things I need for less than £500 seems pretty decent to me. I won;t have to lug my laptop home in the evenings but will probably get more work done. And if I want to watch a movie, play a game or read a book, that's an added bonus.

I'm struggling to think what the downsides are...

No USB?... there's no floppy drive or DVD slot either...
No HDMI?... meh - what for? I've got computers and DVD players coming out of my ears at home.
No Flash?... possible problem if I didn't hate over-flashed websites with a vengeance.
It's not widescreen - duh!... you can play movies in widescreen if you want but if the thing was long and thin it would be unusable.
Virtual keyboard?... possible issue (I'd like to try one) but I'd probably get a keyboard for home anyway.
Tied in to appstore... well as I've only spent £10 on apps I really don't see it as an issue personally. I'd rather pay £5.99 for QuickOffice on an iPad which will do 99% of what I need than full price for MicroSoft Office on a netbook.
No camera? I've got a camera in my phone which I have at all times anyway. Never used video chat or calls so no loss.
Can't think of anything else...

How the processor compares to others or who made it?... no interest whatsoever as long as it works.

[The Jackal]

That's fair enough Alan - sounds like it would suit your needs perfectly, but I'm sure you'll admit that your specific needs are quite niche. I really can't see this device having massive market penetration like the iPhone or iPod.

[djphal]

I'm struggling to think what the downsides are...

No USB?...

USB would be an issue for me

its not really that it has big downsides its more the fact that its just like a big ipod! the fact it has no usb would mean id still have to use my laptop anyway so for me its not worthwhile

sounds like it would suit your needs though

[redchiz]

Memo to Alan_F: less time on here = more billables. 

[Alan_X]

Maybe - but that's just my reasons. I think there are a lot of people who will find their own uses for it. My wife uses the iMac at home but all she ever does is a bit of web surfing, Facebook, internet radio and that's about it. The truth is if it was easier to use she would get a lot more out of it than the over-powered but under-used processor warrants.


There are millions of people who really have little or no need for PC or laptop which when you analyze it is a device that is ultimately just a faster version of a multi-use business machine from the 1980s. 

[Alan_X]

Memo to Alan_F: less time on here = more billables. 

You should see what I bill RAWK per month...

[iSmiff]

alan, i think i know best what you need and you don't need one of these, trust me, i know best

[djphal]

alan, i think i know best what you need and you don't need one of these, trust me, i know best

id listen alan he is very clever

[Brian Blessed]

The fact that it has an accelerometer means they must be thinking alot of niche jobs can use this.

Also, Alan if you do want multi tasking on your iphone, jailbreak and there's as app for that. Probably on the ipad too, in due time.

[JLStretton]

Boo!... 

OK Why do I want both?...

I own and run an Architectural practice. As part of my work I need to be able to do complex cad drawings and also do a lot of detailed 3-D modelling and rendering. I do a lot of Photoshop work as well - both for presentation and image correction. For that I need a good processor and a decent sized screen - not just resolution but physical size - to prevent eyestrain.

I also regularly give presentations to developers, galleries and other clients when I don't want to, or can't use a projector. Again- I need a decent sized screen for that. I also need a computer that looks the part. If I'm pitching a £15 million development I don't want to be using a small net-book.

I could just use a desktop but I sometimes need to work at weekends for deadlines and then it's handy to be able to take the lap top home.

However there is a lot of stuff that I do such as dealing with emails, writing reports, preparing bid documents, financial planning putting together presentations, where I really don't need the full power of the laptop. I do a lot of that stuff in the mornings and evenings or on the train to and from work (about an hour a day). Not only do I not need the full power of the laptop - it's heavy and a pain in the arse to use if the train is really busy.

As I said, I'll always have a phone with me so I don't really care about built-in 3G - the WiFi model would do me fine. So a device about the size of an A4 piece of paper and half the weight of a netbook that can do all the things I need for less than £500 seems pretty decent to me. I won;t have to lug my laptop home in the evenings but will probably get more work done. And if I want to watch a movie, play a game or read a book, that's an added bonus.

I'm struggling to think what the downsides are...

No USB?... there's no floppy drive or DVD slot either...
No HDMI?... meh - what for? I've got computers and DVD players coming out of my ears at home.
No Flash?... possible problem if I didn't hate over-flashed websites with a vengeance.
It's not widescreen - duh!... you can play movies in widescreen if you want but if the thing was long and thin it would be unusable.
Virtual keyboard?... possible issue (I'd like to try one) but I'd probably get a keyboard for home anyway.
Tied in to appstore... well as I've only spent £10 on apps I really don't see it as an issue personally. I'd rather pay £5.99 for QuickOffice on an iPad which will do 99% of what I need than full price for MicroSoft Office on a netbook.
No camera? I've got a camera in my phone which I have at all times anyway. Never used video chat or calls so no loss.
Can't think of anything else...

How the processor compares to others or who made it?... no interest whatsoever as long as it works.

   

[J-Mc-]

For the people saying it has no USB, is that confirmed? because from the walkthrough pics on the apple site, it shows 3 slots on the side that look like USB slots

[Brian Blessed]

For the people saying it has no USB, is that confirmed? because from the walkthrough pics on the apple site, it shows 3 slots on the side that look like USB slots

They aren't, it's Apple trickery.

[J-Mc-]

They aren't, it's Apple trickery.

thats a real failure point from a marketing point of view IMO, would only be using this (if i got one) to watch movies from my external hard-drive, but that can't happen with no USB, the Microsoft tablet looks like a high tech Journal/Diary but does look more impressive from the videos.

Their a waste of money if you've already got a laptop by the looks of it.