Topic: Anfield Road Redevelopment

[BaZ87]

Didn't we expect £30m more in matchday revenue? why only £12m

Because the previous season was bloated by the fact we played 31 home games due to League Cup and Europa League runs. Last season we played just 24 home games. Assuming we make it past Porto we'll play at least 27.

[CraigDS]

As the Echo article linked earlier points out, we earned around £2m a game in the previous accounts, and this has now risen to just over £3m a game.

[BaZ87]

As the Echo article linked earlier points out, we earned around £2m a game in the previous accounts, and this has now risen to just over £3m a game.

As with the total revenue, those figures will be distorted by Cup runs. General admission tickets for League Cup and Europa League will have been priced cheaper (particularly the earlier rounds) than League games which would have brought the average down for 15/16 and of course corporate tickets (at least the high end packages) are often sold seasonally so will increase the average income per game in seasons where you play less games (16/17).

Based on 27 home games this season, a very rough estimate, I'd say matchday income will be £80m with the average per game dropping just below £3m.

[Fromola]

It's vital the Anfield Road End is expanded and the extra capacity is used to get the next generation into the ground.

It might not make a big return on the investment like the Main Stand but it's equally important. If Everton are building a new stadium on the docks in the region of 60k then they'll be offering all kinds of cheap deals to get kids in the ground. We can't lose a generation of support to them.

[CraigDS]

If Everton are building a new stadium on the docks in the region of 60k then they'll be offering all kinds of cheap deals to get kids in the ground. We can't lose a generation of support to them.

The numbers don't add up for them to be able to fund a stadium of that cost and size at increased ticket prices from what they are charging now, so they certainly won't be able to offer all kinds of cheap deals.

[Fromola]

Didn't we expect £30m more in matchday revenue? why only £12m

It's about an extra million a home game, so that's anything from 19 to 30 games depending on cups.

[Fromola]

The numbers don't add up for them to be able to fund a stadium of that cost and size at increased ticket prices from what they are charging now, so they certainly won't be able to offer all kinds of cheap deals.

Which is why Big Joe has the taxpayers funding it.

[Roady]

It's vital the Anfield Road End is expanded and the extra capacity is used to get the next generation into the ground.

It might not make a big return on the investment like the Main Stand but it's equally important. If Everton are building a new stadium on the docks in the region of 60k then they'll be offering all kinds of cheap deals to get kids in the ground. We can't lose a generation of support to them.

Behave! Everton can’t fill their ground now as it is! Apart from two games a season us and Manchester United. The cost of their new stadium they won’t be able to offer cheap seats and even if they do they won’t fill it.

[CraigDS]

Which is why Big Joe has the taxpayers funding it.

They aren't funding it, they are loaning the money, which needs repaying. It'll save Everton some money in interest but they still need to make yearly repayments.

And they are only loaning about £300m of it, they still need to find funding for £200m+ of it.

[Macred]

Didn't we expect £30m more in matchday revenue? why only £12m

At the outset they indicated that the new main stand would generate about £20m per season extra - my understanding is that the figure was based on 25 home games. They also thought they would get a naming rights partner at £5m, but at one point a deal was suggested at £9m per season but this failed to materialise, and seems like wishful thinking now.

But if the new Main stand is generating in the region of £1m extra per home game, which appears the case then the 24 homes generated £24m, had it been open the season before, then ball park £31m (31 games) Not allowing for splitting matchday revenue for domestic cup games etc. Either way, it seems to have significantly exceeded the £20m projected income.

Additionally, I dont think the main stand was fully operational until this season while completion of internal fit out was completed, so perhaps more to come from that maybe in this current year not withstanding extra games.

[Alan_X]

Which is why Big Joe has the taxpayers funding it.

He doesn't. The council are lending the money to build the stadium not funding it, which means Everton will have to pay a premium to the council over and above the interest payments.

Everton won't be offering loads of cheap seats if they're paying off half a billion at commercial rates of interest plus a premium to the council.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I think this will be the problem though.
Many blues seem to think that they will just "have" a big stadium that they can then offer generous ticket prices for in order to fill it. Ignoring the fact that the bigger you build it, the higher the cost per seat. They see latent demand, but at Goodison prices, which would barely cover the repayments on a 500m stadium. The demand arguably would not be there at higher prices.

Have also seen a few mention that by having a better stadium they will automatically sell lots more hospitality. They may well do that because the current numbers aren't huge and the prices far lower than ours. But surely if there was extra demand, they would be testing it by offering more offsite packages at Goodison - something we did prior to the Main Stand.

I just don't see the numbers adding up at 500m. 300m to the council at 3% is 9m a year interest only. Then there's the other 200m which at say 4% is another 8m interest only. Stadium excluding corps only earned 14.5m. Commercial including corps is about 25m.
To come anywhere near servicing that loan they really have to go some in both commercial terms as well as corporates and GA.
Finally, sponsors won't just line up to chuck bundles of cash at Everton because they have a new stadium. They'll want hard evidence on how associating with Everton will help them grow their businesses and reach new customers. Which is difficult when they've spent the last 20 years marketing the fact that they're a local club for local people.

Unless Moshiri or someone else writes a big cheque, it's not happening. Even City's owners didn't spring for an entire stadium.

Sorry, bit longer than intended and possibly should be in the other thread.

[CraigDS]

That's not even including the fact the council are mouthing off about making £7m a year on the deal.

[Peter McGurk]

I think this will be the problem though.
Many blues seem to think that they will just "have" a big stadium that they can then offer generous ticket prices for in order to fill it. Ignoring the fact that the bigger you build it, the higher the cost per seat. They see latent demand, but at Goodison prices, which would barely cover the repayments on a 500m stadium. The demand arguably would not be there at higher prices.

Have also seen a few mention that by having a better stadium they will automatically sell lots more hospitality. They may well do that because the current numbers aren't huge and the prices far lower than ours. But surely if there was extra demand, they would be testing it by offering more offsite packages at Goodison - something we did prior to the Main Stand.

I just don't see the numbers adding up at 500m. 300m to the council at 3% is 9m a year interest only. Then there's the other 200m which at say 4% is another 8m interest only. Stadium excluding corps only earned 14.5m. Commercial including corps is about 25m.
To come anywhere near servicing that loan they really have to go some in both commercial terms as well as corporates and GA.
Finally, sponsors won't just line up to chuck bundles of cash at Everton because they have a new stadium. They'll want hard evidence on how associating with Everton will help them grow their businesses and reach new customers. Which is difficult when they've spent the last 20 years marketing the fact that they're a local club for local people.

Unless Moshiri or someone else writes a big cheque, it's not happening. Even City's owners didn't spring for an entire stadium.

Sorry, bit longer than intended and possibly should be in the other thread.

There has to be a deal that stacks up in there somewhere otherwise it wouldn't even be talked about but it's pretty unlikely to include cheap seats unless it's intended to just pay for itself and that's it. No growth. No team development?

I guess the reason they've gone to council for funding is they couldn't get it elsewhere. They have always had an issue with guarantees - again, unless the new owners are guaranteeing it.

[sminp]

There has to be a deal that stacks up in there somewhere otherwise it wouldn't even be talked about

I don't believe there is a deal in there that stacks up for Everton, it's the new owners taking the fans for a ride like Hicks and Gillett did with us. As far as the council goes Fat Joe can't see what's going on as he is being blinded by his desire for a new Everton ground and also the thought of making a few quid out of it.

[rob1966]

It's vital the Anfield Road End is expanded and the extra capacity is used to get the next generation into the ground.

It might not make a big return on the investment like the Main Stand but it's equally important. If Everton are building a new stadium on the docks in the region of 60k then they'll be offering all kinds of cheap deals to get kids in the ground. We can't lose a generation of support to them.

Even with a 60k stadium, they'll still play shit footy. The only way kids will convert to them, is if they start winning things. Kids round ours are still being brought up as Utd fans as most of their Dads or Mums are (mine of course are Liverpool), City supporters are still in the minority.

[Kop Kenny]

I'm still expecting a legal challenge to the blue shite's grand plan of using council tax payers cash to build a new stadium even if blue nose Anderson is trying to push it through. Their estimated cost of £300- 350 million is not even close to what it would actually cost either.

[CraigDS]

I'm still expecting a legal challenge to the blue shite's grand plan of using council tax payers cash to build a new stadium even if blue nose Anderson is trying to push it through. Their estimated cost of £300- 350 million is not even close to what it would actually cost either.

Our club won’t make any legal challenge, nor should they.

And the council aren’t providing 100% of the cash, it’s £300m of a £500m cost - although it would, if it ever got built which it won’t, no doubt be more than that.

Not really a thread about their non-existent stadium though.

[Kop Kenny]

I don't expect our club to make a legal challenge but someone from the local council tax paying public is far more likely to, and I'm well aware the council are not providing 100% of the funding.

They will never be able to fill a 60K stadium even if they did get it built nor would they be able to repay the cost of building it, which I would estimate at nearer £600+ million but you are correct, it is not a thread about their non existent stadium, I mention it only in response to the point that they could potentially capture the youth of Merseyside as fans by offering cheaper seats than we are to fill it.

[BaZ87]

Unless I've missed something then tax payers cash isn't funding any of their proposed stadium. From what I understand, the idea is for the council to loan the money on their behalf with Everton paying the council a premium on top of whatever the interest is charged on that loan.

[Jonny-B]

Unless I've missed something then tax payers cash isn't funding any of their proposed stadium. From what I understand, the idea is for the council to loan the money on their behalf with Everton paying the council a premium on top of whatever the interest is charged on that loan.

That's correct.

[Alan_X]

That's correct.

Never let facts get in the way of a good moan.

[CraigDS]

Although, presumably, tax payers cash will be securing the loan.

[BaZ87]

Although, presumably, tax payers cash will be securing the loan.

Probably. I think this debate is a bit pointless anyway as I can't see how this project stacks up for Everton. The demand for tickets isn't there and while slashing ticket prices may get bums on seats, it won't help increase revenue (by enough) to cover the costs of financing the stadium. And on the subject of financing, it's reported as part of the deal between them and the council that Everton's PL tv money and season ticket money will be used as security - if Everton are so hard up that they need the council to secure them a half decent interest rate, with tv and season ticket money already accounted for, how on earth are they going to find funding for the other £200m odd?

[Alan_X]

...it's reported as part of the deal between them and the council that Everton's PL tv money and season ticket money will be used as security...

Someone should remind them of what happened to Leeds. It was for players rather than a ground but Leeds used ticket sales and hospitality as security.

[Macred]

Unless I've missed something then tax payers cash isn't funding any of their proposed stadium. From what I understand, the idea is for the council to loan the money on their behalf with Everton paying the council a premium on top of whatever the interest is charged on that loan.

and then if they cannot afford the repayments? Who pays then? Moshiri?

The head of the council, out on police bail on fraud charges? The chief finance officer resigns, who was also dismissed from a previous role, with a gagging order and a cloud hanging over her at the same time as an independent report into this financing is released, apparently finding issues, but which is can not be divulged... hmmm... when you can smell a rat... there is usually a rat about.

Time to start an "Imaginary Stadium" thread?

[rob1966]

Time to start an "Imaginary Stadium" thread?

Just change the colour to blue and superimpose over a pic of the mersey and the docks.

[BaZ87]

and then if they cannot afford the repayments? Who pays then? Moshiri?

The head of the council, out on police bail on fraud charges? The chief finance officer resigns, who was also dismissed from a previous role, with a gagging order and a cloud hanging over her at the same time as an independent report into this financing is released, apparently finding issues, but which is can not be divulged... hmmm... when you can smell a rat... there is usually a rat about.

Time to start an "Imaginary Stadium" thread?

As I mentioned in my next post, Everton's tv and season ticket money will reportedly be used as security so the council would have first dibs on that. I agree that it'll probably never happen though. The costs have got too high to make it financially feasible. Their match day revenue for last season was just £14m - to finance a £400m+ stadium is going to cost upwards of £30m per year. They'll have to more than treble their match day income to be in the same position.

[gazzam1963]

As I mentioned in my next post, Everton's tv and season ticket money will reportedly be used as security so the council would have first dibs on that. I agree that it'll probably never happen though. The costs have got too high to make it financially feasible. Their match day revenue for last season was just £14m - to finance a £400m+ stadium is going to cost upwards of £30m per year. They'll have to more than treble their match day income to be in the same position.

And with a lot of duds to unload , players over 30 to replace and not a real big player ala lukaku or stones to bring big cash in . An Interesting few years ahead for them especially if moshila suddenly realises how much money he can hoemarrage being an owner and wants out like lerner .

[Alan_X]

And with a lot of duds to unload , players over 30 to replace and not a real big player ala lukaku or stones to bring big cash in . An Interesting few years ahead for them especially if moshila suddenly realises how much money he can hoemarrage being an owner and wants out like lerner .

It's also a massive gamble to try and break into the group at the top of the Premiere League. At the moment there are six teams vying for 4 Champions League places.

United have a 75,000 seater and a massive commercial operation. Chelsea are already way ahead of Everton because they are in West London and are planning to move to a 60,000 seater. Spurs will be in a 60,000 seat ground next season, Arsenal already have a 60,000 seat stadium and even though they are in crisis and not always filling the ground they have paid off the loans and have a huge income. Liverpool are now at 54,000 with a relatively cheap option to increase capacity up to 60,000. Man City won't fill their stadium but are bankrolled by a country.

Where would Everton fit in with their new 60,000 seat stadium?

[andyw79]

It could cripple them!

[CraigDS]

It could cripple them!

It will cripple them. How we that's why it won't happen as the numbers just don't add up and no responsible lender and/or council will get involved in it.

[RedorRed]

Just change the colour to blue and superimpose over a pic of the mersey and the docks.

I loved that design...... it was the only thing H&G did that was good....... the design I mean.
Was so different to anything else... especially the parry bowl type designs

[The Lord Admiral]

I loved that design...... it was the only thing H&G did that was good....... the design I mean.
Was so different to anything else... especially the parry bowl type designs

One of the forum elders will be along shortly to school you in why although it looked great from the outside, it was a terrible terrible design for watching football on the inside. Like you I thought it was great til I read the nitty gritty.  I can't remember the details but they were very comprehensive!

[RedorRed]

One of the forum elders will be along shortly to school you in why although it looked great from the outside, it was a terrible terrible design for watching football on the inside. Like you I thought it was great til I read the nitty gritty.  I can't remember the details but they were very comprehensive!

Yeah all the sight lines were terrible etc...... but that could be worked on during the final drafting. But it just looked imposing!!!

[Alan_X]

One of the forum elders will be along shortly to school you in why although it looked great from the outside, it was a terrible terrible design for watching football on the inside. Like you I thought it was great til I read the nitty gritty.  I can't remember the details but they were very comprehensive!

Here you are:

I loved that design...... it was the only thing H&G did that was good....... the design I mean.
Was so different to anything else... especially the parry bowl type designs

It was shite. It was an NFL stadium. Shite views, open concourses, a half built away end, glass walls to the Kop. Different is easy. A ham sandwich with a turd in it is ‘different’.

[poopscoop]

Here you are:

It was shite. It was an NFL stadium. Shite views, open concourses, a half built away end, glass walls to the Kop. Different is easy. A ham sandwich with a turd in it is ‘different’.

Hahaha, nice one.

[Macred]

Here you are:

It was shite. It was an NFL stadium. Shite views, open concourses, a half built away end, glass walls to the Kop. Different is easy. A ham sandwich with a turd in it is ‘different’.

So new White Hart Lane then...

[Alan_X]

So new White Hart Lane then...

White Hart Lane is a version of the Emirates with a modified seating bowl.

[Brain Potter]

White Hart Lane is a version of the Emirates with a modified seating bowl.

In regards of the Emirates Stadium I read somewhere once that the capacity could be increased to 70,000 simply by installing normal sized seats. At present the seats are very big.