Topic: Paris

[TeddyTime33]

can I just add that our group were split over 2 hotels in different areas.

We had nothing but apologies from the people who worked in the hotels and owners of nearby restaurants etc. The response in the morning was well received. It would be a shame if people didn't go back to this city because of what happened to us.

they can apologize 100 times over and over I won't be back

[Jm55]

can I just add that our group were split over 2 hotels in different areas.

We had nothing but apologies from the people who worked in the hotels and owners of nearby restaurants etc. The response in the morning was well received. It would be a shame if people didn't go back to this city because of what happened to us.

I’d agree with this.

Everyone stating Paris is a shithole - it isn’t, I wasn’t there at the weekend but I have been recently and actual central Paris is absolutely fine, it’s the surrounding areas which are a shithole.

That said, if I’d experienced what so many did on Saturday I can’t say I’d be in a rush to return, whether that’s a logical or fair approach or not.

[Red-Soldier]

The only plausible explanation for it is that UEFA have had enough of British clubs dominating Europe and fancy a lengthy ban to even up the playing fields.

I’m not saying that’s what happened, I’d like to think it was down to incompetence (which is still fucking awful considering what could have happened) but at least better than it being deliberate, but if it was intentional, then I can’t see past that being the intent.

I actually think it was intentional.

How can the treatment of two sets of football fans be so different........?

[MH41]

It is.

What's the agenda though? Am I missing something here?

Surely the the French authorities, UEFA, all concerned with the City of Paris itself etc would have benefited from a well organized event that passed off well and reflected well on them?

Thing is, it actually looks like there were deliberate attempts to sabotage the entire event by those hosting it. Why? I just don't get it. What am I missing?

I felt immediately on Saturday evening that something just wasn't right.
What's the agenda? I'm not sure.... Liverpool FC becoming too strong. Oil money in Paris. Club set up, and inconvenienced in every way? - fans, pitch, team bus etc
Liverpool being punished for being anti establishment? Recent criticism of the Tory party and the booing of the anthem? I know it was in France, but....
I'm having to stop myself, but I believe this may have been staged..

[Jm55]

I actually think it was intentional.

How can the treatment of two sets of football fans be so different........?

Could quite easily be down to nationalities, English supporters acting like absolute animals at Euro 2016 won’t have helped. Obviously that’s no justification for treating our fans like that (or any fans) but it may explain it.

[TeddyTime33]

I actually think it was intentional.

How can the treatment of two sets of football fans be so different........?

Madrid fans had similar problems on a smaller scale but the riot police at the end was a clear establishment photo opportunity that it was Liverpool fans to blame

[Fromola]

Could quite easily be down to nationalities, English supporters acting like absolute animals at Euro 2016 won’t have helped. Obviously that’s no justification for treating our fans like that (or any fans) but it may explain it.

The police were looking for trouble, we know that much.

Security failures around the stadium possibly complacency/lack of proper planning as Paris were only given the final at late notice due to the war in Ukraine. The FA/authorities messed up enough over Wembley at the Euros final, so perhaps a legacy of the pandemic that crowd control measures are too rusty and not thought through.

Cover up is all about saving face as we know only too well.

[TeddyTime33]

I was sad, upset and distressed on Saturday now I'm absolutely seething after seeing that response from the French government

[oldfordie]

The only plausible explanation for it is that UEFA have had enough of British clubs dominating Europe and fancy a lengthy ban to even up the playing fields.

I’m not saying that’s what happened, I’d like to think it was down to incompetence (which is still fucking awful considering what could have happened) but at least better than it being deliberate, but if it was intentional, then I can’t see past that being the intent.

I have visions of UEFA officials sat in luxery hospitality suites in the ground being pampered. same people sat on their arses asking why the games delayed rather than intervening to see for themselves. same people reacting in the same pridictable way. supporting a cover up by blaming others to deflect blame from themselves to cover up there own lazy corrupt incompetence. 

[Millie]

Lack of time to plan properly is a rubbish excuse.  Just look at our own city yesterday with an estimated 500,000 on the streets, all managed fine.

[davidsteventon]

By ticketless fans do they mean at the stadium or the city?
Obviously lots were in the city.
Need to be careful with how that’s worded as very different outcomes and scenarios.

You can’t have 20k (or whatever number they are saying) just randomly standing around at the stadium.
Either the thousands got in, or were chucked out.
So either in or out.
But it’s neither is it.

As someone else said. How was it so bad. They had nothing to gain from it being a balls up.

That walk back to the metro will stay with me for a long time.
Glad I got out early but not too early to be at the front.
All the police there in all the wrong places.

I’m just so confused by it all. Apparently we played a football game as well at some point.

[MH41]

I felt immediately on Saturday evening that something just wasn't right.
What's the agenda? I'm not sure.... Liverpool FC becoming too strong. Oil money in Paris. Club set up, and inconvenienced in every way? - fans, pitch, team bus etc
Liverpool being punished for being anti establishment? Recent criticism of the Tory party and the booing of the anthem? I know it was in France, but....
I'm having to stop myself, but I believe this may have been staged..

Not to mention the completely bizarre TV footage. I'm not watching the game back, but it may as well have been real Madrid TV.
I'm now actually remembering that we were shown more footage of Marcelo during the entire game, than Klopp!!!
What's going on here?
Would also like to hear what the thiago issue was... information to him, with the purpose of unsettling him?

[jonnypb]

Paris is a shit hole.

French police are twats.

UEFA is a corrupt organisation that couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

The French sports minister knows they fucked up and is desperately trying to push the blame elsewhere, or their handling of the event was premeditated and they wanted this to happen to a team from England.

What I don't understand is if the security staff/police saw all of these 'fake' tickets then where are those tickets now?  Surely if anyone is found out for having a fake ticket then the ticket is confiscated when they're checked by staff?  You wouldn't tell that fan to go away and leave them with the ticket as they would then just go and try in another queue.

Another thing that I'm not sure on, were mardrid fans also funneled through a space only big enough for one person at a time?  Plus how many turnstiles did they have open?  Hopefully this information is out there somewhere.

[nycjon]

I don't think it was intentional I think it was incompetence. Seems to me they sold the security off to lowest bidder. People at checkpoint overwhelmed with equipment that didn't function properly. Then once check point is not functioning the local gangs get in and around the stadium causing issues, overwhelming people at the gate who then shut the gates making the situation worse. Then riot police come in and start tear gassing.

[Fromola]

Lack of time to plan properly is a rubbish excuse.  Just look at our own city yesterday with an estimated 500,000 on the streets, all managed fine.

Of course it's a shit excuse but these events (even our parade) are organised a long time in advance. CL finals are usually awarded 2-3 years before they take place rather than 2-3 months. If you look at the security operation for Euro 2016 final compared to Saturday it's night and day. There was massive complacency/lack of planning.

[Red-Soldier]

Not to mention the completely bizarre TV footage. I'm not watching the game back, but it may as well have been real Madrid TV.
I'm now actually remembering that we were shown more footage of Marcelo during the entire game, than Klopp!!!
What's going on here?
Would also like to hear what the thiago issue was... information to him, with the purpose of unsettling him?

They had a real fetish for the Madrid VIPs 

[disgraced cake]

Just came across this video on twitter. It's from the French Cup final in the Stade de France a few weeks back. Seemed there was big problems outside the stadium with people struggling to get in

https://twitter.com/ojbsports/status/1523023041227530240

Bloody Liverpool fans though!!!

[Fromola]

@MiguelDelaney
1h
The major cause on Sat was French authorities failure to adapt to a strike, which meant a main train station closed. So, rather than 16 corridors open for LFC fans, only four were. It created a huge bottleneck hours before, with everything coming from that

This helps explain why the French government are now lying through their teeth.

[jillcwhomever]

I actually think it was intentional.

How can the treatment of two sets of football fans be so different........?

The bloke from Sky has just said he was sprayed at the Madrid end. Some of their fans were also late into the ground. RM fans have said they had locals bunking into the ground and that they were also attacked afterwards. This is something that’s happened to both sets of fans and more Spanish fans are coming out and saying that now. It’s why both clubs should tackle this together so they have more power.

[Ray K]

they are loving a victim blame in all this. The club now at fault for what - not somehow supplying a few hundred busses in a city the size of Paris? It was Klopp at fault a bit ago for telling LFC fans to go to Paris.

Never mind that the authorities completely failed to account for the RER strike which closed the major station close to the ground.

[rafathegaffa83]

I don't think it was intentional I think it was incompetence. Seems to me they sold the security off to lowest bidder. People at checkpoint overwhelmed with equipment that didn't function properly. Then once check point is not functioning the local gangs get in and around the stadium causing issues, overwhelming people at the gate who then shut the gates making the situation worse. Then riot police come in and start tear gassing.

This

[Craig S]

I’d agree with this.

Everyone stating Paris is a shithole - it isn’t, I wasn’t there at the weekend but I have been recently and actual central Paris is absolutely fine, it’s the surrounding areas which are a shithole.

That said, if I’d experienced what so many did on Saturday I can’t say I’d be in a rush to return, whether that’s a logical or fair approach or not.

We witnessed a car jacking on Friday afternoon, on Boulevard de Madeliene. As we walked from Montmartre area down to the river. I have never seen anything like that before.
A friend got attacked and mugged in the centre.

I have never felt as unsafe, needing to check over my shoulder, in any major city as I did over there. That's without anything that went on around the match.

[disgraced cake]

The French ministers in the press conference effectively saying 'it's in the nature of Liverpool fans' just leaves you sick to the stomach. I really feel for everyone who's already been through this before after the past tragedies. Just grim.

[Circa1892]

At this stage it should be a conversation between Government Ministers.

Even knowing how our establishment treat us, surely they’re not going to let the French slander their own people.

[rafathegaffa83]

It’s why both clubs should tackle this together so they have more power.

Absolutely

[Circa1892]

No10 spokesman seems to have pretty much called the French authorities liars. That fraud Macron will love that.

[Nick110581]

Shouldn’t tickets all be mobile nowadays ?

Then Clubs send souvenir tickets to fans.

[El Lobo]

Bizarre that a supposed progressive country thinks you can get away with just outright lying in this day and age. Its not like 1989 where newspapers are the only place to read 'news'. Pretty much every fan there would have had a camera phone, all of the bullshit lies can be debunked in about two minutes

[oldfordie]

Have UEFA thought this response out properly?
If they are laying the blame at Liverpool fans then they will have to impose a punishment on Liverpools FC. do that and they will face a shit storm.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Bizarre that a supposed progressive country thinks you can get away with just outright lying in this day and age. Its not like 1989 where newspapers are the only place to read 'news'. Pretty much every fan there would have had a camera phone, all of the bullshit lies can be debunked in about two minutes

They clearly panicked and didn't think it through.

At least it showed us what kind of people they are

[Jm55]

Bizarre that a supposed progressive country thinks you can get away with just outright lying in this day and age. Its not like 1989 where newspapers are the only place to read 'news'. Pretty much every fan there would have had a camera phone, all of the bullshit lies can be debunked in about two minutes

Trump has largely written the playbook on this bulllshit.

[Kitch83]

I don't think there's any doubt that fake tickets were one of the root causes of the problem.

Many, if not most, holders may not have been aware, or had invalidated tickets, but without a system to shunt them without stopping the flow it's just feeding the chaos.

Our lot needs to start chanting "Back Up!" from the front next time a crush comes.  This is another tragic accident waiting to happen and being the best supported Club in the World, you know what's gonna happen next time.

With respect, this is the biggest crock of shit I have read in a while. And the fact you even think of a 'next time', is more reason not to speculate on lies that you are being fed.

[Schmarn]

It’s actually remarkable that our fans stood there for hours, kettled, tear gassed, pepper sprayed and abused, and there isn’t a single reported instance of Liverpool fans resorting to violence. Imagine if that was England fans. We are fortunate that journos were caught up in it otherwise it would be another stick to beat us with.

As for the fake tickets excuse, even if it is true that there were a lot in circulation, whose decision was it to put 35,000 tickets in the hands of people who aren’t members of either club? UEFA actively created a huge tout market and it was inevitable that criminals would try to get in on the action. The only lesson for proper fans is not ever to buy from touts, not only because they are vermin but because you run the risk of getting ripped off.

I actually think the issue was a combination of poor policing and turnstiles failing. Lots of stories of tickets being rejected but working later on. That is technologically impossible unless the fault is with the turnstile as opposed to the ticket.

[redmark]

Have UEFA thought this response out properly?
If they are laying the blame at Liverpool fans then they will have to impose a punishment on Liverpools FC. do that and they will face a shit storm.

This isn't a UEFA response, it's the French government (and there are some complex political issues involved for them - which shouldn't be our problem, but we're an easy target: we don't have a vote). There are things to hold UEFA to account for, and ultimately they're responsible for the hosting of the CL Final, but much/most of the issues on the ground seem to be the fault of local authorities and the police. Suggestions in the various threads suggest UEFA aren't thrilled at the tarnishing of their pinnacle event.

[johnybarnes]

"If there were thousands and thousands of fake tickets, we would've known about it, we were on the concourse."

@SkyKaveh gives his first-hand account of what happened outside the Stade de France vs the statement from the French Interior Minister

https://twitter.com/footballdaily/status/1531247866190217217

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I don't think there's any doubt that fake tickets were one of the root causes of the problem.

Many, if not most, holders may not have been aware, or had invalidated tickets, but without a system to shunt them without stopping the flow it's just feeding the chaos.

Our lot needs to start chanting "Back Up!" from the front next time a crush comes.  This is another tragic accident waiting to happen and being the best supported Club in the World, you know what's gonna happen next time.

Poor that.

[redmark]

I actually think the issue was a combination of poor policing and turnstiles failing. Lots of stories of tickets being rejected but working later on. That is technologically impossible unless the fault is with the turnstile as opposed to the ticket.

Given the state of the organisation and direction, as others have said, that could just be tickets being rejected because they were presented at the wrong gate.

[Koplass]

Christ! This is harrowing.

Sounds like the police may be, at best, unable to control the local gangs and, at worst, openly in cahoots with them. What has happened to France?

[skipper757]

The French authorities don't have control at sporting events anymore for football.  It's sad what happened in Paris.

If you look at Ligue 1 and all the craziness around it, Marseille have had multiple matches abandoned.  Pitch invasions and crowd problems everywhere.

For the Coupe de France final, Nice ultras were clashing with police amidst trouble from some PSG ultras also.  Saint Etienne supporters invading the pitch to attack their own players after relegation.  Lyon-Marseille abandoned.

These are some of the biggest names and games in French football (not some some provincial games), and it's just chaos.

So when our supporters get to Paris, the riot police have no interest in engaging or helping.  They just assume the worst and start treating the supporters with contempt, and it's a disgrace.  When the local gangs and such come up and cause problems, particularly after the match (see what Kitch posted and what Jim Beglin tweeted), the police don't do anything, probably just assuming the same "fights" they see in Ligue 1.  And they just don't really care about foreign supporters getting home.

The French have lost all control at football matches and have resorted to heavy-handed tactics.  But when non-French supporters arrive and behave well, they don't adjust and react the same way, even though the supporters are innocent.  Now that they've screwed up, they'll blame the fans, as authorities do.

Some posters on here have referenced Hillsborough parallels.  You see it with how the French are handling things.  They've blamed fans for a result of their own failures.  And these failures of French government and society go far beyond just today.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/aug/23/nice-marseille-chaos-fans-shame-ligue-1

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/nov/21/lyon-marseille-abandoned-after-dimitri-payet-hit-by-bottle-from-crowd

https://www.france24.com/en/sport/20220530-riot-police-clash-with-pitch-invading-fans-as-saint-%C3%A9tienne-relegated-from-ligue-1

[Red-Soldier]

I don't think there's any doubt that fake tickets were one of the root causes of the problem.

Many, if not most, holders may not have been aware, or had invalidated tickets, but without a system to shunt them without stopping the flow it's just feeding the chaos.

Our lot needs to start chanting "Back Up!" from the front next time a crush comes.  This is another tragic accident waiting to happen and being the best supported Club in the World, you know what's gonna happen next time.

Think you need to take a sit down mate.