Author Topic: Jürgen Klopp  (Read 957614 times)

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #960 on: January 27, 2020, 10:34:16 am »
I think the main takeaway from this, is that if they’re going to have a winter break (which in theory was agreed by the PL FA and EFL), they should have planned it properly.
No chance of replays falling within the break and ideally it shouldn’t have been staggered either (ie all teams should be off the same 2 weeks)

What we’ve ended up with is a dogs dinner of a winter break which is not the fault of Jürgen Klopp, and whatever decisions are made around it should be respected, and if they don’t like it (whoever they be - supporters, media etc) their ire should be directed at the authorities who have caused this by not doing it properly.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #961 on: January 27, 2020, 10:34:55 am »
Totally agree with Klopp.

We've been shafted by the League (2 games, 2 days) and we've been shafted by the FA (arranging a game in a break that they agreed themselves)

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #962 on: January 27, 2020, 10:35:42 am »
I absolutely agree with Klopp's point. This is clearly a mess made by the FA and the Premier League. However, I do think Klopp should take charge of the team, whichever team he chooses to play the game. The FA Cup is not a U23-tournament, whether we choose to play the U23s or not. It is the first team that has entered the tournament, and Klopp is the first team manager. He should take charge of the game.

Did you say that about the league cup game too?

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #963 on: January 27, 2020, 10:35:58 am »
We will back him, as we backed Rafa, but all the noise from a hostile media does the make the job tougher. Ask Jeremy Corbyn. Klopp has largely had the media eating out of his hand thus far


Wait. What? You don't seem to appreciate just how much the average Liverpool fan dislikes the media and just how much we don't trust them?

Siding with the media over the manager?

Really?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #964 on: January 27, 2020, 10:46:59 am »
Klopp's sending a message here.  If we start to compromise the winter "break" by playing matches during it, then we softly decay the concept of a break, rather than reinforce it.  So imagine the first year of a winter break Liverpool have a match in the middle of it.   Klopp knows the approach to winter breaks well from Germany.  He knows the benefits of it and also the challenges of it.  So he is bringing a very strong and clear decision.  We need to keep a winter break as just that, a break.  This year and every year.
The FA cup has also been diluted since Premier League started, Champions League got bigger and more sponsored etc.  Again looking at Germany, their FA cup (Pokal) is a nice tournament to win, but doesn't sit with Domestic League and CL at all.  The FA cup is still a nice day out in the final, but when I was young (many moons ago) it was a big big event.  One of the few live games on TV in those days, so it isn't what it was back then.  The landscape of the game has changed. 
When FSG give Klopp his priorities for the year, You kind of know the FA cup isn't in the primary goals for the year conversation.  Times have changed. 

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #965 on: January 27, 2020, 10:48:03 am »
We will back him, as we backed Rafa, but all the noise from a hostile media does the make the job tougher. Ask Jeremy Corbyn. Klopp has largely had the media eating out of his hand thus far

I always wanted to find out an equivalence in disrespecting the FA Cup and now I have it. Anti-Semitism.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #966 on: January 27, 2020, 10:51:14 am »
If we go deep into the CL i dont think fans will care about this.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #967 on: January 27, 2020, 10:54:25 am »
I always wanted to find out an equivalence in disrespecting the FA Cup and now I have it. Anti-Semitism.

He brought up Suarez and Evra while talking about it in the other thread too

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #968 on: January 27, 2020, 10:56:18 am »
Klopp is doing the right thing for the players - and therefore the club, as he has every single day since he got here. It's a pity, but this is the right call. I hope the kids get through anyway and shut up all the critics.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #969 on: January 27, 2020, 10:56:44 am »
Personally I like the FA Cup, the first trophy I remember us winning and some great memories over the years.

But considering our position in the league and what’s at stake, I wouldn’t care less if Klopp put out the U14’s in the home game.

There should have been enough experience on the pitch yesterday to get a result but too many of them didn’t perform well enough.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #970 on: January 27, 2020, 10:58:02 am »
Klopp (rightly) doesn't think the league is over and wants to finish the season strongly. Manè has broken down with a hamstring. Too many games. A season break was arranged and we are going to honor that and not move the goal posts because of a reply.
As far as I'm concerned, Klopp can do what he likes.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #971 on: January 27, 2020, 11:00:50 am »
But considering our position in the league and what’s at stake, I wouldn’t care less if Klopp put out the U14’s in the home game.

I feel like people have got this the wrong way around ... back when we were fighting tooth and nail for top four I was a big advocate on here for sacking the cups off while a lot of people were losing their heads desperate for a trophy.

We are in a position of strength now to hoover up as many trophies as we can. We have the squad
(albeit still not quite where it should be imo), the confidence and belief, and most importantly the points gap at the top of the league. Playing a similar team to yesterday +/- one or two wouldn't jeopardise a thing; if anything it may improve our chances by getting games into key squad players' legs.

This comes down to the big picture and if Klopp thinks sacrificing a trophy is worth it for that then fair enough, I just don't see why it should be us losing out on it.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 11:03:24 am by LallanaInPyjamas »

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #972 on: January 27, 2020, 11:00:55 am »
Personally I like the FA Cup, the first trophy I remember us winning and some great memories over the years.

But considering our position in the league and what’s at stake, I wouldn’t care less if Klopp put out the U14’s in the home game.

There should have been enough experience on the pitch yesterday to get a result but too many of them didn’t perform well enough.

My first football memory of any kind was watching the 1986 FA cup final on TV. I'm fine with Klopp's approach.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #973 on: January 27, 2020, 11:08:04 am »
Can’t believe what I’m reading. The man who has transformed this club and is on course to give us our first ever Premier League title is being questioned about not being present for an FA Cup replay vs Shrewbury?? What next, he gets criticized for not wearing the right shape of glasses? He could send his cat out to manage us and I’d be fine with it, assuming he has a cat. Although it would be good to win, the FA Cup this year is NOT a priority. The rest of the country hate us anyway, he gives a fuck what they think. Klopp deserves a break to get his mind refreshed and come up with some fresh plays and tactics for the most important couple of weeks in our history.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #974 on: January 27, 2020, 11:14:09 am »
Did you say that about the league cup game too?

I didn't, since that was a completely different situation. Klopp and the first team was actually in another part of the world when that game were to take place. It was literally impossible.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #975 on: January 27, 2020, 11:22:22 am »
Of course we all believe in Klopp but we've all got to be honest and admit that he doesn't care much for this competition.

We can trust in him but it's plain that playing the 'kids' and not even turning up himself (I believe he won;t be there) says it all.

I'd like us to take it more seriously so it's a personal thing as a fan - not a stab at Klopp.

He would care if the FA and the premier league and the EFL got it's shit together and stopped creating these mad fixture pile-ups during the season.

He took the German cup seriously, it's not a disdain of cup competitions, it's a frustration of how the league and associations here do things.  Probably made worse as he came from a league where they have their cup competition organisation down to a fine art.

He does what he feels is right for his team, it's really that simple, he cares for them, the media don't.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #976 on: January 27, 2020, 11:24:02 am »
Completely see Klopp's point, but we have a number of first teamers who need a game far more than they need a break. Feels like a nose is being cut off to spite a face here. Fine if Critchley gets the dugout for this one, but at least give him a fighting chance with a few senior players who need to shake off some rust.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #977 on: January 27, 2020, 11:25:30 am »
I feel like people have got this the wrong way around ... back when we were fighting tooth and nail for top four I was a big advocate on here for sacking the cups off while a lot of people were losing their heads desperate for a trophy.

We are in a position of strength now to hoover up as many trophies as we can. We have the squad
(albeit still not quite where it should be imo), the confidence and belief, and most importantly the points gap at the top of the league. Playing a similar team to yesterday +/- one or two wouldn't jeopardise a thing; if anything it may improve our chances by getting games into key squad players' legs.

This comes down to the big picture and if Klopp thinks sacrificing a trophy is worth it for that then fair enough, I just don't see why it should be us losing out on it.
How can we have the squad to compete on all fronts when a team with half first teamers and half U23 players couldn't get the job done yesterday?

For me, our first League Championship for 30-years is the most important trophy, anything else is just background noise. I'd happily sacrifice the League Cup, FA Cup and Champions League to achieve that. In reality we'll want to defend the Champions League so the other two are collateral damage.   
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #978 on: January 27, 2020, 11:31:36 am »
I'll be gobsmacked if Jurgen is able to go on holiday for a week and not look at anything football related.

It will be good for him to take a break but I'm sure he'll have his laptop with him.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #979 on: January 27, 2020, 11:33:11 am »
I feel like people have got this the wrong way around ... back when we were fighting tooth and nail for top four I was a big advocate on here for sacking the cups off while a lot of people were losing their heads desperate for a trophy.

We are in a position of strength now to hoover up as many trophies as we can. We have the squad
(albeit still not quite where it should be imo), the confidence and belief, and most importantly the points gap at the top of the league. Playing a similar team to yesterday +/- one or two wouldn't jeopardise a thing; if anything it may improve our chances by getting games into key squad players' legs.

This comes down to the big picture and if Klopp thinks sacrificing a trophy is worth it for that then fair enough, I just don't see why it should be us losing out on it.

I'd like to see us make 2 or 3 big signings this summer from a position of strength. Then with the title monkey hopefully off our backs go all out on all fronts like City do (with the squad to do it).

We didn't spend last summer and are too short in some areas, or relying on injury prone players. Mane injury a wake up call given Origi's performance yesterday.

The decision not to bother with the domestic Cups was made in the summer by not strengthening. If we win the league then it's the right call.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 11:39:08 am by Fromola »
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #980 on: January 27, 2020, 11:40:49 am »
Delighted the outrage i'm hearing from the usual sources talkshite etc... Hope we field the under 23's and Klopp is put up at halftime on the big screen live form Miami on the sunbed getting a tan and drinking a cocktail. Fuck the FA the twats.  :wave
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Offline gkmacca

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #981 on: January 27, 2020, 11:41:21 am »
I couldn't believe that idiot Andy Holt at Accrington having a pop: 'Liverpool need censuring and fining heavily. It is not their football, it’s ours'. Well if it's your football, mate, get on with it and keep your snout out of our football! Klopp's 100% right to point out the shambolic lack of co-ordination between the PL and the FA. If there's a break, there has to be a break.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #982 on: January 27, 2020, 11:41:27 am »
If we go deep into the CL i dont think fans will care about this.

What if we get to the European Cup Final again? There'll be a nasty fortnight of doing nothing before we play in Istanbul. In Kiev it was a problem apparently. I think even Klopp said so. Two weeks without a proper match and the intensity lowered. The players were knackered in the second half of the final. Last season, a week before we took on Spurs in Madrid, Klopp organised an indoors match against a Portuguese team and paid them to play at high intensity. It kept the players on their mettle.

Well...if you're with me so far, what better way to prepare for another European Cup Final than have an FA Cup Final a week before?

Which brings me round to this winter's break we're having. I wonder if we'll return a bit jaded? Three weeks ago Jurgen explained away our tepid performance against Spurs by saying that the players had lost their rhythm. Why? Apparently because they'd been used to playing twice a week and had suffered in only playing once that week. Counter-intuitive, I thought. But there you go. We weren't playing enough football. That doesn't bode well for the winter break.

Here's a solution. Let seven or so of the first team squad play against Shrewsbury in the replay. I'm thinking of the seven who have hardly played any football this year (2020) and would be grateful for the minutes (Keita, Fabinho, Minamino, Lallana, Matip, Lovren, Jones etc). That way they don't get even more match-unfit cooling their heels on a winter's break. That way we get through to the next round of the FA Cup. That way we keep open the possibility that we get to play at Wembley in May as a training exercise for the big one in Istanbul.

Even if you despise the FA, and think the FA Cup is a Mickey Mouse trophy, I'd have thought that this strategy might appeal to you.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #983 on: January 27, 2020, 11:43:04 am »
Can’t believe what I’m reading. The man who has transformed this club and is on course to give us our first ever Premier League title is being questioned about not being present for an FA Cup replay vs Shrewbury??
Question is are we grown up here enough to see that certain decisions aren't necessarily right and continue to adore Klopp at the same time? It doesn't seems to me, regardless of how successful the manager is throwing away competitions in this club should never be applauded - it doesn't take away from the fact that Klopp is definitely the best thing that ever happened to us in our modern history, we all understand that.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #984 on: January 27, 2020, 11:44:37 am »
What are the odds that some of the fringe 1st team players or those coming back from injury and are a bit rusty actually ask to play in the match? I think there is a reasonable chance and it again being a mixture of kids and more experienced players.

Think Klopp's message is 100% on the button though and very much something the FA needs to take heed of.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #985 on: January 27, 2020, 11:46:26 am »
He is completely in the right. Not only is he following the guidelines from the FA, but he is also honoring the promise obviously given to the players.

Also, why are people talking as if we are deliberately giving up on the cup? I believe the kids will win this.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #986 on: January 27, 2020, 11:47:39 am »
I'm perfectly fine with Klopp's approach.

But then again, if Klopp had said afterwards that his plan for the replay was to start by burning down my house, I'd think 'well, he's probably thought this through properly so I guess that makes sense' and start buying a few jerry cans for him.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #987 on: January 27, 2020, 11:47:59 am »
What if we get to the European Cup Final again? There'll be a nasty fortnight of doing nothing before we play in Istanbul. In Kiev it was a problem apparently. I think even Klopp said so. Two weeks without a proper match and the intensity lowered. The players were knackered in the second half of the final. Last season, a week before we took on Spurs in Madrid, Klopp organised an indoors match against a Portuguese team and paid them to play at high intensity. It kept the players on their mettle.

Well...if you're with me so far, what better way to prepare for another European Cup Final than have an FA Cup Final a week before?

Which brings me round to this winter's break we're having. I wonder if we'll return a bit jaded? Three weeks ago Jurgen explained away our tepid performance against Spurs by saying that the players had lost their rhythm. Why? Apparently because they'd been used to playing twice a week and had suffered in only playing once that week. Counter-intuitive, I thought. But there you go. We weren't playing enough football. That doesn't bode well for the winter break.

Here's a solution. Let seven or so of the first team squad play against Shrewsbury in the replay. I'm thinking of the seven who have hardly played any football this year (2020) and would be grateful for the minutes (Keita, Fabinho, Minamino, Lallana, Matip, Lovren, Jones etc). That way they don't get even more match-unfit cooling their heels on a winter's break. That way we get through to the next round of the FA Cup. That way we keep open the possibility that we get to play at Wembley in May as a training exercise for the big one in Istanbul.

Even if you despise the FA, and think the FA Cup is a Mickey Mouse trophy, I'd have thought that this strategy might appeal to you.

Pretty much my view. If the strategy is to make a very important point about the winter break then I am not sure this is the way to do it. I don`t get not playing players who, for at least some of them, haven't played in a few months. They need game time and this seems like a good opportunity.

None of this means that I am not 100% behind the best thing that has happened to our club for a long time. It is just trying to understand the logic of the decision.

Of course I still think we will win the replay.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #988 on: January 27, 2020, 11:48:58 am »
He is completely in the right. Not only is he following the guidelines from the FA, but he is also honoring the promise obviously given to the players.

Also, why are people talking as if we are deliberately giving up on the cup? I believe the kids will win this.

I think the kids will get battered. It will literally be Men against boys.

Offline DelTrotter

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #989 on: January 27, 2020, 11:51:28 am »
I think the kids will get battered.

 ;D There’s a shock!

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #990 on: January 27, 2020, 11:55:09 am »
I couldn't believe that idiot Andy Holt at Accrington having a pop: 'Liverpool need censuring and fining heavily. It is not their football, it’s ours'. Well if it's your football, mate, get on with it and keep your snout out of our football! Klopp's 100% right to point out the shambolic lack of co-ordination between the PL and the FA. If there's a break, there has to be a break.

Replays have always been a big part of the Fa Cup tbf. But Klopp can field the team he wants. That's our choice so as you say he should keep his nose out on return.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #991 on: January 27, 2020, 11:56:05 am »
;D There’s a shock!

Just being realistic. Klopp knows full well playing the under 21s (not a single senior) even against a league one side is effectively giving Shrewsbury a free pass into the next round but the league has to be the priority.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #992 on: January 27, 2020, 11:56:11 am »
What I’m reading into this is that we are still holding a grudge against the FA after the way they ‘organised’ things in the League Cup. We could probably play this game and get enough rest, but really it’s about them setting the rules then forcing us to break them, about them lauding the standards of football yet doing nothing to protect the players. We’ve had enough and rightfully so.

Value of domestic cups has been eroded dramatically but not because clubs like Liverpool field a second lineup - the blame lies with the FA and we are pointing the finger at them for all to see.
I don't think it we're holding a grudge against FA - this goes much deeper. It's just a consequence of the fact that there are way too many games, and that the importance of the domestic cups has dropped steadily over several decades. Liverpool and Klopp have to prioritize, and that's why we're playing kids and sending the rest off on holidays.

FA has done nothing to reduce the number of games or make the cups more attractive. I mean, the whole concept of replays is bizarre.

Offline jepovic

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #993 on: January 27, 2020, 11:57:54 am »
I absolutely agree with Klopp's point. This is clearly a mess made by the FA and the Premier League. However, I do think Klopp should take charge of the team, whichever team he chooses to play the game. The FA Cup is not a U23-tournament, whether we choose to play the U23s or not. It is the first team that has entered the tournament, and Klopp is the first team manager. He should take charge of the game.
In reality it is. None of the major clubs are using their first 11.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #994 on: January 27, 2020, 11:59:43 am »
I don't think it we're holding a grudge against FA - this goes much deeper. It's just a consequence of the fact that there are way too many games, and that the importance of the domestic cups has dropped steadily over several decades. Liverpool and Klopp have to prioritize, and that's why we're playing kids and sending the rest off on holidays.

FA has done nothing to reduce the number of games or make the cups more attractive. I mean, the whole concept of replays is bizarre.

Replays allow lower league clubs to earn extra money on gate receipts.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #995 on: January 27, 2020, 11:59:54 am »
Question is are we grown up here enough to see that certain decisions aren't necessarily right and continue to adore Klopp at the same time? It doesn't seems to me, regardless of how successful the manager is throwing away competitions in this club should never be applauded - it doesn't take away from the fact that Klopp is definitely the best thing that ever happened to us in our modern history, we all understand that.

I'm for being all grown up and that (occassionally  ;D ), but what I'd love more than anything, is if there where more focus on WHY he is doing this, it's ridiculous that this league has bumbled along so gormlessly for years allowing different organisations to get in the way of each other as it arranges the fixtures (and now this daft timing of a half arsed winter break).

But of coruse, the focus is on why this loud giant German has come in and is not taking it's beloved cup competition seriously.  Because that is what the media (and other fans, and it seems some LFC fans) want to focus on, cos it's far more fun than focusing on the reasons.

1. Scrap the league cup for PL teams in Europe.
2. Scrap cup replays.
3. Make the FA cup seeded in the first round where the PL sides come in, so smaller sides get a better chance at a primo tie.
4. Have the lower league side as the home team in the first round the PL sides come in (and even in later rounds if they are in a league below the Championship).

And then guess what - the loud giant German will stop complaining, and will take the cup seriously.


Offline Fromola

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #996 on: January 27, 2020, 12:00:04 pm »
What are the odds that some of the fringe 1st team players or those coming back from injury and are a bit rusty actually ask to play in the match? I think there is a reasonable chance and it again being a mixture of kids and more experienced players.

Think Klopp's message is 100% on the button though and very much something the FA needs to take heed of.

Hopefully the FA see sense and put the replay back a week. Maybe that's what Klopp is hoping.  This will make a complete mockery of their competition.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline RichardM

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #997 on: January 27, 2020, 12:00:07 pm »
I absolutely agree with Klopp's point. This is clearly a mess made by the FA and the Premier League. However, I do think Klopp should take charge of the team, whichever team he chooses to play the game. The FA Cup is not a U23-tournament, whether we choose to play the U23s or not. It is the first team that has entered the tournament, and Klopp is the first team manager. He should take charge of the game.

Completely agree, this is the point I made in another thread. I have no issues with the senior players not being involved, but ultimately this a senior squad fixture, and Klopp should be on the sideline. Even if he feels it's more appropriate for Neil Critchley to lead the team, Klopp should still be there. Personally (don't lynch me) I think it' a sign of disrespect to the players that DO play. Klopp leads the club, not the first 11.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #998 on: January 27, 2020, 12:01:06 pm »
Without question Klopp has been fantastic, and it's more questioning this decision not him per say. I get that the league and CL is a priority. I just don't get this decision. It smacks of elitism and arrogance.

Why does the manager need to jet off for a holiday as well. Priorities change, we have a game now and one the club should respect by at least trying. Not greed at all in wanting a treble, but more so at least try for the competitions that we've entered for. Slowly but surely so many of football's traditions are going one by one. This can only result in no more replays. We have fans wanting to abolish this and that. Lower league teams not having chance to play the big teams. Money talks in this game.

Question also is why did the winter break come about anyway. Yes, to help the national teams.

With the squads these days a winter break was not needed at such a crucial time of the season.

Offline Andypandimonium

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #999 on: January 27, 2020, 12:01:10 pm »
West Ham match preview required pronto!

Up the reds  :champ :scarf :scarf :champ :scarf :scarf