Topic: Jürgen Klopp

[SpionBob]

This mid season break is scheduled to give the players a chance to recharge their physical and mental energy. If Klopp believes all his first team squad should be rested then we should not question him on this as he knows how much his players need a break. We have already lost Mane for some games, do we want to risk losing other key players? Quite simply Klopp has earned my 100% support and I'm amazed there are sensible people questioning him.

[KurtVerbose]

This has nothing to do with giving recovered players game time. It's about the FA and the PL putting clubs like us in an impossible position. Jurgen has stood up to them and we should back him.

[Yorkykopite]

Yep too right. The F.A. Cup has naturally diminished first of all because of United's action in their doomed attempt to become World Club Champions.

I've never understood this argument, although you hear it a lot.

It seems to imply that Man United are somehow bigger than the Cup and therefore feels designed to inflate their own stupid self-image.

Man Utd bowing out for one season didn't affect my perception of the competition at all - nor reduce my desire for the Reds to win it. In fact Man Utd not showing up added a bit of lustre to the old competition I thought.

[DonkeyWan]

Just a reminder that we have just comne through a period where we were down to two fit centre backs and had lost Fabinho to injury. Keita, Ox, Shaquiri have had injuries and Robinson and Salah were playing through ankle injuries. Mane is out for a while as well.

We haven't won that treble (although we've won others) yet we're still the most successful team in England and currently European Champions,  World Champions and league Champions elect.

This is all true. I don't think anyone is questioning Klopp at all (not least because he is the last word, but not the sole arbitrator in this) I do think that just about everyone has accepted the vast bulk of the arguments;

1. Players need a rest - Yep
2. Klopp needs a break - Yep
3. This is a function of bad planning by authorities - Yep
4. Liverpool must not be complacent - Yep

The only querstion that needs resolving (and is being asked in a variety of forms here, in a fairly even handed way I think) is;

1. Why can't some of the players who haven't played much stick around and train/play?

So far the answers offered are;

1. Its all or not at all - This is the strongest argument for me, but I still need some convincing on this point, as players are always treated differently and train differently, so being asked to play in a  week off may not be as jarring as  some think.
2. Everyone else has it off - Yes, but not everyone else is having a replay
3. The cup is less important and it would be unfair on players to make them play while others are on holiday - Not convinced by that argument at all, players want to come to the premiership and win things, they know they need to make sacrifices
4. It may derail other competitions - this is obviously crucial, but the question for some on here is why wouldn't some senior players benefit from the minutes?

However, as I said before, I suspect there will be some volunteers who stick around to help younger players in the game.

Strange season where Liverpool are being undone by scheduling more than anything else.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Angry at Klopp wanting a break?

Anyone annoyed by him not wanting to be there should be careful what they wish for. Things like this will increase likelyhood of him wanting to leave 2024 or earlier. Let him have his winter break.

Exactly...

If you look at his face, every once in awhile during a presser, he looks haggard.  This job is a non-stop, insanely demanding gig of giving of himself (to players, staff, Melwood staff, execs, journos, locals, other managers, and the entire world of football)

Unifying around his ideas as a club fan base can bring him some energy --- no doubt.   

Whenever he decides to leave, Fowler forbid, let it not be because of shite like this.

[Rush 82]

I agree this is big picture stuff and on one hand I applaud Klopp for taking a stance.

On the other hand, though, the replay isn't smack bang in the middle of the break. It's three or four days after Southampton. Those involved would still probably have a whole week off between the replay and getting back into training ahead of Norwich away, and they'd have gained invaluable minutes to build them back up ahead of the rest of the season.

‘Hey Dejan, you can have 7 days instead of the 12 you planned on with your family since the beginning of the season and if you complain remember it’s your own fault for letting that 2nd goal in’

[wige]

I agree this is big picture stuff and on one hand I applaud Klopp for taking a stance.

On the other hand, though, the replay isn't smack bang in the middle of the break. It's three or four days after Southampton. Those involved would still probably have a whole week off between the replay and getting back into training ahead of Norwich away, and they'd have gained invaluable minutes to build them back up ahead of the rest of the season.

Honestly, I have no idea whether the players would be better off getting minutes, or having a complete break from everything football (and to them - work related). I do know that last year I managed to get my first proper week away from everything in about 2.5 years. Just laid by a pool for a week, ate what I wanted, slept in, chilled, forgot about everything. It was ridiculous the positive effect it had on my productivity - engagement, mindset - everything - when I returned. Now, I don't expect the players to eat whatever they want and neglect their fitness - but I do think that a proper week off could be hugely beneficial, especially with the intensity, pressure and worldwide focus they'll be under when they get back.

Again though, I don't think this is about that. This is about Klopp leading a fight he strongly, passionately believes is right. Englands first ever winter break. English FA? Yep - FA cup replay week. That's clearly bollocks. What I'd like to see is Mourinho come out and say - you know what, Jurgen is right - we won't be there either. Then Hassenhutl to do the same - every manager involved. The guy currently top of the tree is taking the stance. If others stood by him, we might, just might, get a buy in from those that matter - the Premier League, FA, League Cup organisers. The club/football rivalry that always keeps people divided would be irrelevant and a collective stance *could* force them into taking a second to properly plan a football season. Unfortunately - as said before, not everyone is in the position of strength Klopp is in - either in terms of relationship and buy-in from supporters or competition-wise.

It's 100% bigger picture to him, and I think we all need to recognise that and support him - because it's extremely unlikely he'll get support from outside the club. If it means we go out of the cup - so be it. If it means we're a bit below par for a couple of weeks - so be it. These players, not just ours, are getting run into the ground. Sadio Mane had about 3 days off this summer if I recall correctly? Firmino and Alisson - a week, Mo the same? Henderson, Virg, Gini etc etc etc. *You* can see Klopp making the same arguments in multiple pressers since start of the season. If he doesn't do it now, then when and where can he? The cycle just goes on.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Well this took a turn.

For the record I don't think any 1st teamers should be forced to play but one or two of them would benefit from playing.I just find it strange that the boss won't be on the touchline,even if he just flew in for the day,the youngsters would find just that little bit extra seeing those beautiful gnashers on the touchline.

I accept that isn't going to happen and I'm good with that as I only really care about the one trophy this year.

[keyop]

I love the guy to death but he should be at the FA Cup replay,he is the manager so he should manage the side we put out.

You only have to look at Guardiola and City to realise how much the intense seasons and high standards take out of you. Guardiola looks about 65 and is clearly struggling this season. Klopp has repeatedly campaigned for a winter break, and has us performing at record-breaking levels not seen before in Europe.

If he wants a family holiday then he's earned it 10 times over in my view, and will come back refreshed for a defining period in our history. Managers already make family sacrifices as part of their job, and its things like this that might just keep him with us for even longer, as he gets the work/life balance he needs and may delay a sabbatical or an easier life at the end of his contract.

It's not like we're playing a premier league side with our 1st team and he's decided to go off on a jolly - this is a strategic decision for the greater good of the club and I'm all for it.

[Suareznumber7]

The players are only getting 7 days off.  They'll be back at Melwood training for the next match after that short break.  If they play in the FA Cup game they have to come in the following day for a recovery session/treatment so their break is 3 days at best.  That's not a break at all. 

[Zoomers]

Has there been any shouts to sack Klopp yet?

[CraigDS]

Has there been any shouts to sack Klopp yet?

And give that fucker a break?

[SpionBob]

Has there been any shouts to sack Klopp yet?

Only from fans of rival clubs

[WhereAngelsPlay]

You only have to look at Guardiola and City

I'd rather not mate 

[killer-heels]

I get arguments about wanting to win the FA Cup. Its a trophy and if fans are unhappy about not giving ourselves the best chance then I completely understand that. I disagree, but I understand that.

Worrying about the press fume is mad though. That is a massive bonus. Who doesnt want to create fume in the Brexit press?

[Rush 82]

And give that fucker a break?

[Chakan]

Far as i'm concerned he can do whatever he wants with the team, he's earned it. The fixture list this season has been crazy so much so that we actually had to field 2 different teams almost at the same time in 2 different countries.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Anybody here think Allison, Trent, Robbo, Virg, Gomez, Hendo, Gini, Bobby, Salah, Mane, Oxlade should play in the replay?

No one I suspect.

Anybody here absolutely insist that Jurgen doesn't take a break either? Or that Critchley can't fill in for the replay?

Maybe one or two. But most of us would accept Jurgen gets his break.

Right. Let's get down to the meat. Anyone reckon Fabinho, Matip, Lovren, Keita, Minamino, Lallana, Jones, Williams, Adrian, Origi need a winter's break? Anyone reckon it might be damaging to have them available for Critchley for the replay? Anyone reckon that LFC's title challenge might be ENHANCED by them getting more minutes in the Cup?

That's the real question. Everything else is just noise.

I was shocked by how un match-fit some of our returning lads were last night. And I'm not convinced that having even more time off will make them match-fitter. Though I'd love to be persuaded.

I agree. And should any of those players go to Klopp and tell him they'd rather play, and the sports science people agree, I'd be amazed if Klopp were to say no. But it does have to come from them, surely? Or he's denying some players a pre-agreed break.

[Caligula?]

We'll probably get a massive fine and get made an example of. But who cares.

[jepovic]

I've never understood this argument, although you hear it a lot.

It seems to imply that Man United are somehow bigger than the Cup and therefore feels designed to inflate their own stupid self-image.

Man Utd bowing out for one season didn't affect my perception of the competition at all - nor reduce my desire for the Reds to win it. In fact Man Utd not showing up added a bit of lustre to the old competition I thought.

They are bigger than the FA cup though, and so are we. FA lost that battle decades ago. It's not elitistic to state this, just an observation.

The next battle is about the PL itself. There's a very real risk that the biggest clubs start their own international league within the next decade. There's more TV and sponsor money in playing Barcelona than playing Burnley.

Not saying I like this development, but the power balance between FA and the biggest clubs has shifted enormously.

[FlashGordon]

If any of those players want to stay and train and play then so be it.

You can’t say ‘Hendo you get a break with your family, Oxlade you get a break with your family, Fabinho sorry you don’t get a break because you got injured. Hard luck.’

It genuinely flabbergasts me that intelligent posters are essentially going ‘yeah I know it’s a mid season break for the first team players and squad...but let’s use these first teamers’. It’s surely either all or none, otherwise how do you even justify it? If you’ve played more than this amount of minutes you qualify for a holiday?

This should be the end of it. Nothing else needed to be said.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Agree with above. The absolute best thing about what Klopp is doing is seeing and hearing the incoming fume from the press and little englanders alike. When Jordan Henderson is dancing on the spot about to lift number 7 after securing number our first league title in 30 years nobody is going to give a sh it about the FA Cup. 

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

The only way Klopp could have played this was to say that all his players get the break, especially as that's what had been promised.

If that promise hadn't been made, it's very easy to imagine a scenario where some of the squad play this game, because as people have said, there's a fair few players that for different reasons haven't played much football.

It really wouldn't surprise me if one or two seniors decided to volunteer to play. A good example is Milner. Not played too many minutes, gets the first week of International breaks off anyway, recently injured, maybe starting to look at options for when he stops playing.

If Klopp's seen to be upholding his promise and players volunteer, I could see it happening. I could also see a scenario in which Klopp is so pissed off with the FA etc that he makes all his players have a break whether they want it or not.

[KurtVerbose]

I really question why hasn't the PFA stepped in?

Why can't they introduce some simple rules, based on sports science. E.g.

A minimum gap between games of 72 hours.
A maximum number of games per year.
A fortnightly break over the winter.
A three week break in the summer.

[Ghost Town]

Here's my take on it for what it's worth. I love the FA Cup. I think it's still a cup worth winning and I regard the arguments such as ''it got devalued when Man Utd pulled out'' and other such stuff to be utterly asinine. Look at that Champion's Wall and the numbers on it and the pride you feel; all those numbers had to be achieved by graft and endeavour and it's that graft and effort which makes the wins worthwhile. And winning trophies is the only reason the club exists.

I also like the concept of replays, not just because they give you another chance to win in a way more representative of what football is about than penalties, but also because of the way they can allow smaller sides to get lucrative fixtures at a massive stadium, as well as the benefit of playing in their own ground.

If it were up to me I would do my best to win it every season. So no part of my position comes from the idea that ''who cares, it's only the FA Cup'' as I regard that as an inane position to hold.

However, there seem to be other battles going on here - about the disorganised and non-integrated nature of football governance and different organisations pulling in different ways, and about the club both requiring the powers-that-be to be consistent and the club taking a stand to highlight the inconsistencies and idiocies of what's going on, and adding these to the equation do change the complexion somewhat.

In that regard I trust the club and the manager to be doing the right thing and to have a much better idea of what needs to be done, than I have.

Above all, I trust and back Jurgen Klopp 100% in his decisions, and this is not a statement made lightly. It's easy to claim that you back a manager when he's winning every week and all is rosy. Your claimed 'support' and 'backing'  only really has its mettle tested in times of adversity or difficulty, or when the manager is making a decision or taking a stand that, ostensibly at least, is different to your own.

That's when support/backing really means something and that's why, despite his position on this being a bit different to what mine might have been, Klopp has my 100% support.

[Thepooloflife]

Snip -

1. Why can't some of the players who haven't played much stick around and train/play?

So far the answers offered are;

1. Its all or not at all - This is the strongest argument for me, but I still need some convincing on this point, as players are always treated differently and train differently, so being asked to play in a  week off may not be as jarring as  some think.

Made some good points in your full post - but, I think on the point above, my argument would be Liverpool have been asked to respect the winter break by not playing competitive games during it, to protect players welfare. To go against that by playing some of the first team players would undermine the principle of the winter break and Klopp's support and his previous requests for it, notwithstanding the fact we'd still have to play the game......but that's the FA's doing.

[Mister Flip Flop]

They are bigger than the FA cup though, and so are we. FA lost that battle decades ago. It's not elitistic to state this, just an observation.

The next battle is about the PL itself. There's a very real risk that the biggest clubs start their own international league within the next decade. There's more TV and sponsor money in playing Barcelona than playing Burnley.

Not saying I like this development, but the power balance between FA and the biggest clubs has shifted enormously.

Well the FA are just shooting themselves in the foot by having replays then. The tie could have been sorted yesterday either way but it was in fact greed from the FA that has us in this situation.

I actually think the FA Cup could survive in some format if they binned the Caraboo/league cup for good.

[jillcwhomever]

Here's my take on it for what it's worth. I love the FA Cup. I think it's still a cup worth winning and I regard the arguments such as ''it got devalued when Man Utd pulled out'' and other such stuff to be utterly asinine. Look at that Champion's Wall and the numbers on it and the pride you feel; all those numbers had to be achieved by graft and endeavour and it's that graft and effort which makes the wins worthwhile. And winning trophies is the only reason the club exists.

If it were up to me I would do my best to win it every season. So no part of my position comes from the idea that ''who cares, it's only the FA Cup'' as I regard that as an inane position to hold.

However, there seem to be other battles going on here - about the disorganised and non-integrated nature of football governance and different organisations pulling in different ways, and about the club both requiring the powers-that-be to be consistent and the club taking a stand to highlight the inconsistencies and idiocies of what's going on, and adding these to the equation do change the complexion somewhat.

In that regard I trust the club and the manager to be doing the right thing and to have a much better idea of what needs to be done, than I have.

Above all, I trust and back Jurgen Klopp 100% in his decisions, and this is not a statement made lightly. It's easy to claim that you back a manager when he's winning every week and all is rosy. Your claimed 'support' and 'backing'  only really has its mettle tested in times of adversity or difficulty, or when the manager is making a decision or taking a stand that, ostensibly at least, is different to your own.

That's when support/backing really means something and that's why, despite his position on this being a bit different to what mine might have been, Klopp has my 100% support.

Good post.

[Fromola]

I really question why hasn't the PFA stepped in?

Why can't they introduce some simple rules, based on sports science. E.g.

A minimum gap between games of 72 hours.
A maximum number of games per year.
A fortnightly break over the winter.
A three week break in the summer.

Maximum number of 55 club games (including official pre-season games) and 10 international games in a calendar year for each player.

[Ray K]

Thank goodness we fucked off the league cup. Can you imagine what our fixture list would be like if we had put a full team out against Villa and now were in the middle of a two-legged semi as well as the FA Cup replay?

Jurgen must be quite thankful that we weren't drawn against Everton in the quarters, basically.

[Mister Flip Flop]

I really question why hasn't the PFA stepped in?

Why can't they introduce some simple rules, based on sports science. E.g.

A minimum gap between games of 72 hours.
A maximum number of games per year.
A fortnightly break over the winter.
A three week break in the summer.

I think if United, Spurs, City, Arsenal etc..where in the exact same situation we are in now you'd see the PFA make a statement.

The whole thing is coming to a head anyway sooner rather than later. Premier league, champions league, FA Cup, league cup, super cup, world club championship plus internationals world cup, euros, world cup qualification, euro qualification, African cup of nations, South American qualifiers, euro league, international friendlies etc... players are being treated like donkeys, yeah they get paid well for it but all that money won't stop you pulling a hamstring from not getting proper rest or suffering burnout.

Klopp could i suppose take advice from Ole at Old Trafford and just play our players injured (ala Rashford) and finish 6th and to hell with their welfare.

[rojo para la vida]

Here's my take on it for what it's worth............

That's when support/backing really means something and that's why, despite his position on this being a bit different to what mine might have been, Klopp has my 100% support.

Loved your post. I was harsh on what the FA Cup meant in an earlier post, basically saying that it's nostalgic nonsense but that was probably said in anger at the way our manager has been blasted by elements of the media, as many of us predicted last night and it's obvious that the competition still means a lot to many people. In reality I probably should include myself, I've been to more FA Cup ties than I can remember. Your words about what it means adding another number on the Champion's Wall also resounded with me.

However I still stick with Klopp's position on this and my remarks that if he played the game with a few first team lads and they got injured, or if we had a sequence of bad results when games resume after the break, there would be certain elements of our fan base slating him. The fact is there are priorities and the FA Cup isn't first or second. In my fragile mind, I want nothing to stop us winning the league and I have tunnel vision towards that task.
Klopp is focused, he's got his eye on the main prize but he's sensible because it's not over until it's over, nothing should get in the way that doesn't need to.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Really not understanding the criticism towards Klopp in regards to this. It's clear that he's beyond frustrated that the FA is causing problems with fixtures every year making it more difficult, and that all of the feedback from him and other managers falls on deaf ears. I hope he is sitting on a nice sandy beach somewhere on the day we play the replay.

[Rainbow Laces]

They are bigger than the FA cup though, and so are we. FA lost that battle decades ago. It's not elitistic to state this, just an observation.

The next battle is about the PL itself. There's a very real risk that the biggest clubs start their own international league within the next decade. There's more TV and sponsor money in playing Barcelona than playing Burnley.

Not saying I like this development, but the power balance between FA and the biggest clubs has shifted enormously.

A socialist city like Liverpool churning out such thought? Whatever next! It feels a bit 'bourgeois' to talk like this. We are effectively the 1% in football terms. There are hundreds and hundreds of clubs around the country, and thousands of adults and children that adore the FA cup, as it is the closest most of them will ever get to the dreamy heights that come our way. And of course, that's why it's down the pecking order for us and some of the Prem big boys, but that's not how it is for most out there; we perhaps shouldn't forget that. I still love the FA cup; my first memory of us was in the FA cup, but I understand us prioritizing things on a physical level this season due to what could be done. Maybe in coming seasons with more squad depth we'll genuinely see it as something else to win rather than a hindrance that could potentially get in the way of us winning other things.

As for the other stuff, I reckon that'll be the end of my affinity with the game if it happens. I still appreciate a good physical battling display on a worn pitch as much as I appreciate silky football and slick passing. Football needs reining in, if anything.

Now, where's my pipe and slippers...

[Dim Glas]

Klopp (rightly) doesn't think the league is over and wants to finish the season strongly. Manè has broken down with a hamstring. Too many games. A season break was arranged and we are going to honor that and not move the goal posts because of a reply.
As far as I'm concerned, Klopp can do what he likes.

this, ad nauseam.

End of fucking story quite frankly.

[KurtVerbose]

Klopp could i suppose take advice from Ole at Old Trafford and just play our players injured (ala Rashford) and finish 6th and to hell with their welfare.

Looking at the careers of Redknapp, Owen and Fowler, they were played too young, too often and while injured and really suffered as a result.

I don't understand the money angle. It has nothing to do with the money they're paid. Being paid a fortune doesn't make you recover sooner.

[catinthebag]

Think about it from the kids' point of view: I am training towards that match. I am almost guaranteed a role in it, at Anfield. I get to right the wrongs in a match we should have won.

I think there will be a lot more focus on the training ground for the kids. They will want to prove their mettle. (And I include Curtis Jones in this. Not sure whether this "is he a first teamer or isn't he" argument is relevant to the talent that gets too few minutes anyway. They would not want a break I suspect.)

[Bolrick]

what klopp wants klopp gets.

Just support him

[kaesarsosei]

I do think Klopp should (and will, after internal discussion) be on the sidelines but I think the prep for it should be handled completely by Lijnders.

Also I think Klopp should ask the senior players to be completely honest and if they want to be available, then select them. By honest, I don't mean guys who really want the break saying they will play, but actually guys who really want to play not saying they'll take the break. And again, that comes back to the 4 senior outfield players who started yesterday - they badly need the game time IMO. I wouldn't include Lallana or AOC in that category. And obviously Adrian deserves as many games as he can get.

Hopefully common-sense will prevail. I'd love Klopp to come out and literally say this schedule is terrible but we are only going to use it to our advantage for the aforementioned players, and not at all for the integrity of the cup.

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

Anybody here think Allison, Trent, Robbo, Virg, Gomez, Hendo, Gini, Bobby, Salah, Mane, Oxlade should play in the replay?

No one I suspect.

Anybody here absolutely insist that Jurgen doesn't take a break either? Or that Critchley can't fill in for the replay?

Maybe one or two. But most of us would accept Jurgen gets his break.

Right. Let's get down to the meat. Anyone reckon Fabinho, Matip, Lovren, Keita, Minamino, Lallana, Jones, Williams, Adrian, Origi need a winter's break? Anyone reckon it might be damaging to have them available for Critchley for the replay? Anyone reckon that LFC's title challenge might be ENHANCED by them getting more minutes in the Cup?

That's the real question. Everything else is just noise.

I was shocked by how un match-fit some of our returning lads were last night. And I'm not convinced that having even more time off will make them match-fitter. Though I'd love to be persuaded.

Agree with this all wholeheartedly.

Also, I think we need to consider the fact that Klopp is trying to make a point here too. He has been the one advocating for a winter break in England, he has heavily criticised the scheduling over Christmas/New Year and been warning the FA about player burnout during national tournaments. I think he has made his point, got a winter break (off the back of multiple reasons - not just because Klopp was vocal) and he should use that fully.

He needs a break too. And his staff. They have a PL title to win and a CL to defend - this is the last break the senior players will get this season.

I do kind of wonder if the decision should be put into the hands of some of the players. If Lovren, Matip, Fabinho, Milner, Adrian, Keita, Origi, Lallana, Minamino etc want to be involved then perhaps they should be involved. What disruption would that bring? Would their mid to long term training schedules change, assuming this break has been built into any training programmes? Obviously the risk of injury might be the key thing.

I do think Jones, Williams, Elliot etc.. will be involved. They all play for the U23s regularly. A few senior heads in there would be nice but I am not sure it will happen, judging by Klopp's comments. And his decision should be final.