Topic: How FSG have handled the leaving of Dalglish.

[Hinesy]

I think there are two types of supporter hereabouts. Those who believe in short termist, modern day football club ownership which goes along the lines of several business models: You get a year and a bit to do your thing, or you're off. Real Madrid did it for a long time, then again Aston Villa do it... This approach says, no room for sentiment, or the 'way' in which a club is steeped in its culture. If it works, hire it, if not, sack it. FSG claims Kenny was to get Liverpool into the top four. He didn't and coupled with quite a few terrible results, off he goes.

Then again there are those that think Liverpool owners should own in a Liverpool manner. All that Shanks wrote about cheque books and so forth. Especially when it comes to legends like Dalglish. Long term dynasties, not short term tea parties.

Irrespective of whether Dalglish should've been sacked or not, there are fair arguments on both sides, the sticking point I have is the manner in which he went. And the seeming lack of strategy emanating from Boston. Of course you could argue we want things kept in house, but then complain when we're kept in the dark...


So my question to the scribes, all of yers is this:

How do you view so far the handling of the sacking of Kenny Dalglish?

It's not about if but how?


This is the day after Kenny went. I'll update the thread and thoughts as the days go on, if we can add to it as each drip of info seeps out..

[Vulmea]

Well in part it depends on when they made the decision.

It may have been made as early as last summer or as late as last week but personally I think they finalised their decision and Kenny knew it back in March when the wind went out of our sails to a ridiculous extent.

That would mean they allowed him to play out the rest of the season.

Comolli et al went before the cup final I can't see much which would have made them revise their thinking since then, maybe if we'd have won it would have made the decision politically harder but I dont think it would have changed much in their thinking.

What comes next is spin, spin and more spin. The signing were good or bad depending on whether whoever comes in likes them, dressing room unrest depending on whether whoever comes in likes them etc etc.

[SP]

The whole point of having a Director of Football is continuity. Removing the Manager with no Director of Football in place negates the whole point of having that system in place. I suspect that the FSG plan may well have been to appoint the DOF and then change the manager to someone more media friendly. It was widely reported that FSG wanted the review to take place in Liverpool in a couple of weeks. Were FSG, fully cognisant of the transfer window opening, looking to appoint the DOF fairly soon? Of course that raises the question, if not, why not? In this scenario, FSG could have eased Kenny out once the new man was in place.

If this supposition is correct, Kenny's insistence that the meeting be brought forward, and essentially saying "Back me or sack me" precipitated this crisis. I am sure FSG did not want to be in this position, and have been forced by circumstances into this. In their scenarios Kenny would have accepted another role, and would have added some much needed football experience to the club. 

Who is the footballing brain at the club? The only person with lots of experience at a football club at board level is Ian Ayre. But he is a commercial man, not a football man. And he was a member of the board that appointed Hodgson and DC. There does not seem to be anyone qualified to judge the performance of a manager, or to assess potential candidates. They are consulting somebody, or winging it. I hope it is the former, but if it is, who is advising them? The one thing that unites all of the factions of the fanbase is that the manager appointment is key. And at the moment nothing FSG have said publicly inspires confidence that they have the expertise to make the right appointment. 

[Cassiel]

Handled it badly? They've handled it. Is there any other way to handle a sacking of a club legend who the fans adore and who doesn't want to leave? Give me an example of such a case where it has been done 'well' and I'll be surprised. There is no way this is handled well. It is merely handled.

I think it's a bad decision. Purely because Kenny deserved and should have got more time. However, Kenny himself has gone out of his way to praise them. Now we all know he's a true gentleman who cares more about the club than anyone, and he's not the sort to strop off. But neither do I think he would lie or speak with fork tongued. He'll be upset and devastated - as those who love the man are, for him and for ourselves, for what has been lost - but I don't think he'd lie. If he thought they were a bunch of shithouses he either would have said nothing, or chosen his words more carefully to indicate his ill-feeling. Maybe I missed that. It's hard to parse text with tears in your eyes.

But do you know something equally as corrosive as bad decisions? Turning anger and bile on people who don't deserve it. It is fair enough to criticise FSG for what they have done, or haven't done, the decision's they have made to fail to make, for their distance, their smooth PR, their lack of  substance, and all manner of ways they operate. Let's debate it all. But to label them as greedy, clueless morons on a par with Hicks and Gillett is wrong and wrong-headed. They are not in the same renovated, re-upholstered ballpark as those two twats. They almost ruined us. Inexplicable football decisions, or callously taken ones, were the least of our worries. Under FSG we might not be heading in the right direction, but nor are we laden with debt and heading for insolvency. The manager is not being told told to shut up and manage the team. He is being allowed to manage. Money is being invested and not taken out. All of this does not excuse the decision to sack Kenny. To mix my metaphors, we're heading into dangerous waters when we reach for the pitchforks and tar this lot with the same brush.

[No666]

Bile?

In short, we have been left in a situation where the club has no CEO, no Director of Communications, no Senior Press Liaison, no Commercial Director, no Head of Sports Science, no DoF and no Manager. That's not 'handling' a situation. That's dropping a lead ball on your right foot just after you'd willingly taken a sharp knife your left.

[royhendo]

People may snort at this suggestion as revisionist, but several people guessed at this, some in January, and more and more as things unfolded since that time. The notion was that Dalglish was a dead man walking, and when that idea takes root, well, either those who pay the piper step in and confirm his authority, or they leave him hanging out to dry.

Of course, they left him hanging out to dry, and in the most toe-curling way imaginable. Apologies apologies apologies. Standard Chartered. Apologies everyone.

There were of course plenty of rumours, but with glaring issues to address no funds were released in January with reputed interest in players at that time as usual, and Kenny trying to give us a 'nothing to see here' message while explosions went off behind him, Frank Drebin style.

From that perspective, and if you subscribe like I do to the notion that no manager in any walk of life can do his job without genuine (and clearly delineated) authority and empowerment, his departure from that point on was a fait accomplis. Anyone who felt he should get that backing became increasingly marginalised - just look at Rob Guttman's sturdy attempts to bail out the Titanic with a tea strainer over the last few months on The Anfield Wrap.

The rub is that people, in spite of our recent experiences and of lessons learned in similar contexts, look at football matters as simple issues of selection and tactics. Of coaching and Plans A and B. Of gross and net transfer spends. And they're right to do that of course. But they tend to neglect the underlying context.

Read a football manager's biography - almost any example will do. In it you'll find at least one passage related to how the man felt his backers helped or hindered his work in terms of either bolstering or undermining his authority. Mourinho, Benitez, Ferguson, Stein, Shankly... Christ - Ranieri even titled his book on that theme.

Undermine a manager's authority, let alone when he's managing a group of 'plutocratic neds' (as Pat Kane so nicely put it recently), and he's on a sticky wicket. His coat's on a shoogly peg. He's walking a tightrope. And other cliches.

Looking back at it, it was inevitable. But here's the problem we face now, as No666 says. Without any kind of administrative or executive support in place at the club, and with a Managing Director who, frankly, shouldn't be there, what chance for a successful long-term tenure does any incoming incumbent have? It'll only repeat itself.

FSG have a far bigger task at hand than recruiting a new football manager. And that's not even bringing the stadium issue into play.

[Corkboy]

Bile?

In short, we have been left in a situation where the club has no CEO, no Director of Communications, no Senior Press Liaison, no Commercial Director, no Head of Sports Science, no DoF and no Manager. That's not 'handling' a situation. That's dropping a lead ball on your right foot just after you'd willingly taken a sharp knife your left.

I don't agree. If it was January, I might. They obviously decided to clear out, and in a football club there is no great time to do that, but the start of the summer break is a better time than any.

Our season was awful. Worst league position in decades, worst home record in half a century. The second half of our season was the worst set of results I have seen in my lifetime as a Liverpool supporter. The one trophy we won, we did so only after 120 minutes and penalties against a lower league side. So for Kenny to say that he "wouldn't swap [the League Cup] for anything as I know how much it meant to our fans", well I fucking well would. In fact, I would swap it for a Europa Cup, or an FA Cup, or Champions League qualification, much less winning the League.

When you come down to it, the supporters who disagree with Kenny's firing do so on the basis of who he is and what he had done quite a while ago. As a manager, he has to take responsibility for the team's position, and he doesn't get to mitigate that responsibility by pointing to his record from two decades ago (not that he did, to be fair, but a lot of fans did). Nor has he the excuse that Rafa Benitez had, of being hamstrung by corporate hijackers. FSG said they would clear the debt and they did. They said they would make funds available for players, and they did, in spades.

What they got in return was an annus horribilis of pitiful PR and appalling results. I think they had to act, and now was probably the time to do it. I feel for Kenny but to be brutally honest, the Kenny I heard talking over the last six months, and especially in the last month, wasn't the Kenny I remembered.

And this idea that The Liverpool Way has somehow had its death knell sounded by FSG is utter bollocks. Where was the Liverpool Way when Souness was driving the club into the ground? Or when Houllier was parachuted into Roy Evans' lap? Believe me, if The Liverpool Way could survive the Hicks and Gillette all hat and no boots show, it can survive anything. There is only one constant in a proper football club and that's the supporters. In twenty years' time, Henry and Werner will be gone, as well as a succession of managers and players but I will hopefully still be supporting and probably my kid too, and maybe even his kid.

It would have been nice if Kenny was given another year but football isn't always nice. These FSG boys are in it to win. There's a very good reason for that, too. If we get winning, we get more support and more income, and that breeds more winning and more support and more income and on it goes. People may not like that but a quick glance up at the Etihad shows you what you need to win things in football these days.

To sum up, FSG gave Comolli and Kenny a bunch of money and waited to see how they fared. Not very well, is the answer. You can understand them cutting their losses now and giving someone else a go.

[Jake]

You lot are buggers you know, I've done fairly well staying away from the shite spewed in the main forum and concentrating on revision and then along you come with your interesting debate, how dare you!

I think the situation has been handled wrongly for sure. I won't go into why I believe he shouldn't have been sacked in the first place, its neither the time nor the place, but the way it has happened has increased the pain and distaste without a doubt.

Firstly, if there is still a Liverpool Way, then that means everything must be done in house. How did I find out about Kenny getting sacked? Well a RAWKite I know (AnfieldIron) text me saying he had gone. So then I checked twitter and saw the timeline flooded with various 2 bit journalist's opinions and WUMS/Mancs saying "lol I told u so guyz". Suffice to say there was a fair few unfollowed that day.

I then turned on the radio and bbc sport when I got home and low and behold everyone from Collymore to Henry Winter and every knob in between had some shpiel or an article on Kenny's 'downfall' and why he had been sacked.

I checked the Liverpool FC website, the official source of Liverpool news. Nada. Just on why Hodgson was taking Andy Carroll to the Euros.

5pm came and news broke on .tv. It wasn't the 'thanks but no thanks' given to Roy but a sort of patronising, saccharine tribute which read more like an autistic obituary. It wasn't even an iota of what Kenny Dalglish deserved, a man who has given his entire life to this football club. For the businessmen had decided they were not going to make as much profit with the man who made the people happy in charge.

The immidiate aftermath was fractured at best, a cobbled together thank you from JWH and TW, an almost genuine thank you from Ian 'good with money bad with PR' Ayre and many of Kenny's allies coming out to the press with their understandable outrage. If one thing comforted me that this was different from the dispicable ousting of Rafa, at least Kenny had vocal support.

So what now? No manager, no CEO, no DoF (not that we need one), no real ownership presence in the UK, I honestly do not know what direction we are heading. Perhaps the decision to remove KK was right, perhaps the next big thing will come along, unearth some gems, charm us off our feet and stay and build. But I'm more than worried we're going to get in some flavour of the month mid table supremo who will sign Clint Dempsey and John Ruddy, then we're just gonna have this same thread in a years time when you bastards are putting me off revising for my next lot of studies.

[Cassiel]

Bile?

In short, we have been left in a situation where the club has no CEO, no Director of Communications, no Senior Press Liaison, no Commercial Director, no Head of Sports Science, no DoF and no Manager. That's not 'handling' a situation. That's dropping a lead ball on your right foot just after you'd willingly taken a sharp knife your left.

The question wasn't how they have handled running the club so far. That it has left alot to be desired is an understatement. The question was how they handled Kenny's leaving. My argument is that there is no way to handle something of that magnitude well, given Kenny's status. That he himself came out and said they had acted honourably and with dignity tells me it went as well as it could have done. As for the fact there's very few standing, I think they've simply taken the decision that very few of the people they originally appointed, or who they inherited, are up to the job they want them to do. It would make less sense to keep hold of a manager they didn't want simply because they had fired everyone else. Rather, as Corky says, sweep out the ashes in the morning and set about building a new fire.

And yes, bile. I see posters i respect on here calling the owners all the c*nts under the sun, hinting at, actually scratch that, saying that they are no better than Hicks and co, and inisnuating they're on some weird mission to make as much cash as quickly and as destructively as they can. Which is barmy. Maybe they've just done a shit job so far, have recognised where they've gone wrong and are seeking to put that right. They may not put it right. There's every chance they don't have the answers, never will find them, and their reign may end up being a failure and, as David Conn suggested, they might have bitten off more than they can chew and whole transatlantic running of two massive sports teams is unworkable. But they won't leave us in the shitter, halfway to insolvency and on the verge of extinction.

[No666]

Today we have the Independent confirming in print (the previous non-printable rumour) that alternative managers were approached some weeks before Kenny was sacked. That to me suggests that the matter was badly handled. It suggests they made up their mind some time ago but were going to progress through a farcical end-of-season review in the hope that at the end of this face to face they would finesse the man upstairs. He refused. We are, today, the weaker for that, given that we are lacking the DoF who should have guaranteed continuity and strength at times of managerial crisis.

Let's put it this way: I am struggling to think of one aspect of managing this club they have handled really excellently. (And I would really like to. There's only so much worry and anger I can do.)

[SP]

If the clear out was decided in January, why did Comolli hang on so long? It would have been prudent to clear him out so his successor was in place for the end of the season, and before Kenny was pushed.

[E2K]

I’ve been trying to get my head around this since yesterday without knowing very much of anything beyond rumours and speculation. The one thing that I’m certain about now, more than ever, is that football has changed irreversibly. It’s an obvious point and that change can probably be defined in hundreds of ways, but it has changed.  And since yesterday, all I’ve been thinking is that I and people like me were stupid to ever hold onto the naïve, almost certainly delusional notion that this change hadn’t really affected us, not really, not as much as other clubs. We were still Liverpool. Once Kenny returned to the dugout in January 2011, everything was going to be ok. Why wouldn’t it? This is a man you trust. I wasn’t happy with some of the results this season either, but he still believed that he could build on it and it’s bloody difficult to doubt Kenny Dalglish.

Now he’s been essentially thrown on the scrapheap like some obsolete piece of equipment, and you know, maybe he is obsolete. Maybe Directors of Football and profit margins and performance indicators and all the rest of that big business stuff was double-Dutch to a football man like him. Maybe it was never going to work on that basis, but it’s hard not to feel a bit obsolete yourself when you realise that someone who has given so much to this club and is held in such esteem by its supporters is so easily expendable. I mean, we’re all expendable now, aren’t we? Money is money, wherever it comes from. I probably have no right to say this because I’m not from Liverpool, but I’ll say it anyway: there are people this very second in far-flung corners of the world who are hearing the name Liverpool F.C. for the first time and – just like that – they are now of equal importance to lifelong Reds who have spent every spare penny sustaining a football club so that one day a group of foreign businessmen might go, hmmm, that seems like an interesting investment.  To some, Kenny had to go because of results, but he seems to represent the passing of something far deeper than that and, all pragmatism aside, forgive me if I don’t embrace that passing with open arms, not right now at least.

So how have they handled it? About as well as they could have. How do you tell a child that there’s no Santa Claus? The bells and whistles were necessary, they might not have been able to show their faces around Anfield ever again had they not officially recognised the man’s contribution to the club. And maybe when it’s all said and done, they’ll be proven right. A few years down the line, Liverpool might have a new stadium and a few Premier League trophies in the cabinet, perhaps a Champions League or two as well. Maybe FSG will be viewed as the paragon of good ownership and the decision taken yesterday will be seen as a pivotal moment in the history of the club. But if all that does come to pass, I can’t help but wonder how much it will really mean to the likes of me. And if it doesn’t, which has to be more likely at this point, then the question must be asked: what exactly will we have left?

[Hinesy]

Posted this up for intelligent debate. Please don't wreck it with shite

[steveeastend]

Nobody prevented the people at the club, Ayre f.e., to advise them properly on how things like this usually are done in european football at big clubs.

But a lot of people at the club are small time, they were around when Rafa was underminded, when the fans were made believe Torres handed in a transfer request two hours before the closing of the window, when Suarez was left exposed...

NESV are business people, american investers and they know nothing about football. Maybe they are after money, for sure they don´t wanna loose some.

But for sure they didn´t prevent us from getting things right in the house and for sure it´s a difficult job to fix a non existing structure, leadership when the people within the club seems to be all about shooting themselves in the foot and all about intrigues P.R...

Rafa was underminded not only by Purslow, no way this happend because of one person and I cannot see a well working structure, hierachy since then, but the P.R. in this matter, Kenny, only a consequence out of this.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

No other way it could have been handled IMHO.

The choice was to see if Kenny could turn things around - but as I said on another thread, even staunch Kennyites were saying give him another season to see if he could do it.

Once the decision was made the ideal thing would be for Kenny to win the cup, resign and move upstairs - I emphasise again - once the decision had been made. The actual result of the cup would have no bearing on our assessment of league performance.

Failing that, if promotion / resignation was refused you want a swift clean break as soon as our league campaign was over ideally with someone in place ready to come in.

Of course the disastrous thing would be for the manager to know he was going with someone publically lined up to take his place so there's a fine balance between keeping things behind closed doors and being able to approach potential candidates.

If FSG move in a successor quickly they have handled things in the best way possible - I doubt AVB for example would take the job without some time to research things, contemplate which resources were available to him and and so on. It must be incredibly hard to do that quietly in today's world of facebook, twitter etc. Everyone is know interconnected to everyone else - an uncle working at the hotel they meet at, a cousin dropping one of the parties off in a black cab and so on.

What has made things much easier for FSG however is the fact they are dealing with Kenny, a man of unimpeachable integrity and class.

[yslee]

I suppose I'll post the opinion of a wool.

The thing about the sacking, in my opinion, is only half of the move. The other half will come in on who is appointed, and I'm afraid we can sit here and debate on all the points, but no real conclusions can be drawn till a year or two later when we can look back and see if this is the start of something good (both on and off the field) or the point we enter a long terminal decline.

Dalglish leaving hurts, and I still remember him as a little boy watching Liverpool conquer all. Could it have been better handled? Again, I can't say. I just know it's depressing and relieving at the same time.

[lachesis]

I suspect Kenny knew the position when Comolli left the club. I think a compromise was reached whereby he was in last chance saloon. When he was doing the lap of honour at Anfield there was no fight or endurance for next season in those claps I thought.

As long as Kenny knew, and he has expressed his opinion that everything has been handled well (he could have have just remained silent on that aspect) we have to trust him on his word really.

We always knew he was going to have a season debrief about the disastrous league form. The owners were also due to meet with Clarke and Comolli at the end of the season as well and give their opinion on what went so wrong.

The owners would have watched us over the next few games and scrutinsed if they believed he was the man to take us forward. I think this is why no successor has been appointed yet, because they didn't have solid belief Kenny would have been manager still.

So, I think he's flew out there to get it all done and dusted before he went on his holidays, he's probably had to give his reasons on this seasons form and then some sort of ideology or philosophy over the next couple of years whereby he could get more out the squad and how he would attempt to address the problems. He basically had to become a salesman for himself and it hasn't impressed the owners sadly.

On another note, I think the reaction on the internet in general (not just RAWK) has been way too much. I speak to real life LFC supporters of many backgrounds and type. Some who live in the shadow of the ground and some who live at the other end of the country. There wasn't one of them who felt Kenny would automatically get another season and were braced for this, myself included. The only thing I'll add to that is that just before the announcement I thought the delay indicated that Kenny was going to get another season, so it was a bit of a shock in that respect but as an overall decision I can't say it was like the ones that greeted Houllier or Rafa.

I'm happy that Kenny can leave the club and his entry in most records and books will be along the lines of '...quickly stabilised the club and results after being stuck near the relegation zone and made two domestic cup finals the following season, one of which he won.'

Based on this, I don't think FSG could have done anythign differently, perhaps made the announcement/final decision a bit sooner?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Too little information on the details to be able to react to it properly.

We don't know the exact reasons why he travelled, what was said, if offers were made or if other things were said from either party.

[Skrtelonparole]

There's no easy way to sack a legend like Kenny and there was always going to be hurt feelings and misty eyes if it came to this. We all knew that 18 months ago, and it was a risk we were willing to take.

As for how it was done: Face to face after a review of the season. That's as good a way as anyone can ask for. The whole, "dragging him over the atlantic just to sack him" argument, which is prevalent in so many other threads, beggars belief. Should they have done it over the phone? Sent a text? Twitter?
As for handling the publicity: Yes, it is unfortunate that it wasn't announced on the official website first. We know that Carra got the call from Kenny about "is it Kenny or Gaffer?" when Kenny was leaving the states. Implications are if Carra knew it a day before, it's reasonable to assume a few others found out the same time. One of them apparently couldn't keep his mouth shut for another day.
One can say that FSG should have known this and prepared for it. but what were the options then? Release the news when Kenny was on the plane back home? I think it was right to let Kenny take it in, inform the key players, and come to terms with it before going public.. Letting him land if you so will..  Bottom line is, FSG probably handled this messy affair as good as they could have and they chose the least bad time to do it. if nothing else, I'll take Kenny's own words for it.


As for the bigger picture: Was it the right choice to pull the trigger? It's a tough call, as was highlighted in the last Anfield Wrap. to be honest, i would have done it too, despite loving Kenny to bits. Yes, performances were good early season and we all thought results would follow eventually. That wasn't the case. With every missed penalty and the woodwork conspiring, the belief, the confidence, left the players. And anyone in todays game know the important of the 'right mentality', no?

What FSG is doing now is clearing out the entire top floor of the club and allow for a complete restart. They might not know football, but they know how to run a business, and I expect the next month will see us take significant strides in filling the vacant positions at the club. I'd love to see Rafa back at the club, and I'm sure Montse would have a new watch within a couple of seasons, but which way FSG are now moving foward is anyones guess.

[redbyrdz]

I don't get why he had to fly over to America and back if they already knew they'd sack him. I think this was coming since the day they came over and sacked Comolli, as well as some random other staff. And Kenny knew.

The sacking of Comolli was a bit classless, especially if the stories are true that they never mentioned anything until after lunch. And if they were that unhappy with how things were going, would it have really hurt them to keep everyone in place until after the season? Why did they sack one and came out with the dreaded 'vote of confidence' for the other that just makes them look like liars now?

If the whole structure wasn't to their liking, surely the time to change it was last summer? Instead of giving Kenny a three-year contract. Kenny would've took whatever they gave him, even a rolling monthly contract until a new manager was found. They could've announced plans for a structure and go hunting for the right people and left nobody unsure about being in an interim period. Instead they made it look like they were happy with the structure, adjusted some job titles, and didn't bring anyone else in.


So far, FSG haven't really delivered much of their 'vision'. Kenny was the only appointment they made, outside of promoting some people, and he (and everybody else) absolutely begged them to take him on. I'm quite suspicious of what they will do now, how fast, and if it will be any good.

[rafathegaffa83]

Handled it badly? They've handled it. Is there any other way to handle a sacking of a club legend who the fans adore and who doesn't want to leave? Give me an example of such a case where it has been done 'well' and I'll be surprised. There is no way this is handled well. It is merely handled.

I think it's a bad decision. Purely because Kenny deserved and should have got more time. However, Kenny himself has gone out of his way to praise them. Now we all know he's a true gentleman who cares more about the club than anyone, and he's not the sort to strop off. But neither do I think he would lie or speak with fork tongued. He'll be upset and devastated - as those who love the man are, for him and for ourselves, for what has been lost - but I don't think he'd lie. If he thought they were a bunch of shithouses he either would have said nothing, or chosen his words more carefully to indicate his ill-feeling. Maybe I missed that. It's hard to parse text with tears in your eyes.

But do you know something equally as corrosive as bad decisions? Turning anger and bile on people who don't deserve it. It is fair enough to criticise FSG for what they have done, or haven't done, the decision's they have made to fail to make, for their distance, their smooth PR, their lack of  substance, and all manner of ways they operate. Let's debate it all. But to label them as greedy, clueless morons on a par with Hicks and Gillett is wrong and wrong-headed. They are not in the same renovated, re-upholstered ballpark as those two twats. They almost ruined us. Inexplicable football decisions, or callously taken ones, were the least of our worries. Under FSG we might not be heading in the right direction, but nor are we laden with debt and heading for insolvency. The manager is not being told told to shut up and manage the team. He is being allowed to manage. Money is being invested and not taken out. All of this does not excuse the decision to sack Kenny. To mix my metaphors, we're heading into dangerous waters when we reach for the pitchforks and tar this lot with the same brush.

Great post

[Redwhiteandnotblue]

From the horse's mouth: Dalglish said his departure had been handled in an "honourable, respectful and dignified way".

[kkjellquist]

Didn't Kenny choose to fly to Boston instead of waiting for FSG to arrive at a later date? 

[Alf]

The gist of Monday's TAW was that anything the club did going forward was going to be a gamble.

However with no DOF or Manager are we in any better a position now than when we were when FSG bought the club 19 months ago. I said towards the end of 2010/11 season we should have given Kenny a 1 year contract because we wasn't in any danger of him going elsewhere having paid Rafa & Roy a packet to sling their hook. However if Kenny has to live by the sword then so do they. I've read this decision was planned for months which astounds me because if we'd won at Wembley a fortnight back then with 2 trophies to show for his full season should have been enough for him to have got another year to turn things around in the league.

We've seen at Newcastle with the right signings you don't need to spend a packet to challenge the top 4 as we've also seen at Arsenal over the last 15 years. If the new manager gets us back in the top 4 next season they'll see this as the right decision but I'll take some convincing. Rafa Benitez finished 37 points behind Chelsea in  04/05 and we also finished behind Everton we cut that to 7 the following season, who's to say Kenny couldn't have done the same. Fenway Sports Group John Henry & Tom Werner are not Football people they are business people while Moores & Parry were incompetent & G & H were on the make these 2 could be just as bad for us long term.

[KevLFC]

From the horse's mouth: Dalglish said his departure had been handled in an "honourable, respectful and dignified way".

Of course he will say that. Maybe he should had been given more time but I cant help think that the owners had no options but to dismiss him after all they want top 4 and we came nowhere near

[Golyo]

There is something fishy. FSG allow us to think they are unprofessional. But maybe they want to protect the new DoF from the supporters' bile. What if we already have a new DoF for the last month or so?
I was really angry about the way they fired Kenny. Summoning him to Boston etc. But putting together the puzzle, and knowing that our new owners are not stupid, I feel we are being misled for a while now.

[thejbs]

You can talk about rudeness or mishandling of the sacking in that they sounded out other managers beforehand but to me that's actually prudent and best for the club.  Would you rather that we were like Wolves?  Sack your manager and then realise that no one that you wanted as a replacement was in any way interested? My only annoyance with this regard is that they don't appear to have at least spoken to Rafa.

I'm happy to know that they've at least sounded a number of managers before sacking Kenny.  I also think (as someone above posted) that it wasn't the intention to sack him but rather move him into a different role but he refused.

[steveeastend]

There is something fishy. FSG allow us to think they are unprofessional. But maybe they want to protect the new DoF from the supporters' bile. What if we already have a new DoF for the last month or so?
I was really angry about the way they fired Kenny. Summoning him to Boston etc. But putting together the puzzle, and knowing that our new owners are not stupid, I feel we are being misled for a while now.

In todays football, anything is possible. It could well be the case that they even have the manager in line already and all those talks are just a show in order to give it some time after Kennys sacking... it happend before.

[Lusty]

It's a difficult question to answer, because we don't really know how they handled it, do we?  Who made the decision, and what makes them qualified to make it?  What were their reasons?  There's arguments for and against the sacking, the league form wasn't good enough, but the cup form was and there are some serious mitigating factors.  It's not easy.  I don't think there's anyone at the club who is qualified to make a judgement on Kenny's style of play and football/coaching philosophy and whether it is the correct way forward.

From a PR point of view, there really is no right way to handle the sacking of a legend like Kenny.  We've seen the club be too harsh (the campaign to undermine Rafa started before the results went downhill) and too soft (opting for a joint manager rather than sacking Evans).  What would be the right way to deal with it?

I think we'll know a lot more at the end of the Summer depending on who/what is in place.  There's a lot of appointments to make and a stadium to get started on.  If they convince me that they had a solid plan, and Kenny just didn't fit into it, that's one thing.  If this is a panic sacking and we get another HodgePodge appointment, that's something else entirely...

[Free Kuyt]

It feels to me like we're still feeling the aftershocks of the earthquake which Hicks and Gillett caused.

FSG inhererited the disaster that was Roy Hodson and, new to the club and the game, were very fortunate to have a club legend like Kenny around to step in and begin to sort out that mess. He did a brilliant job for six months, more than fulfilling his remit.

This season, though, has been underwhelming - not just in terms of results, but in the sense that it was almost impossible to see anything being built. A style, a blueprint, a vision, a progression. I couldn't see it. Maybe that's me, or maybe it wasn't there to be seen.

So how do I feel about Kenny leaving and the manner in which it has been handled? Honestly, saddened, but less gutted and angry than when Rafa was sacked. I thought that was a cretinous decision which set us back years. This one was a marginal decision which seems to have been handled about as well as sacking a club legend can be. Kenny did his job for the club when it mattered and now he's out of the firing line.

As for FSG, well, they're still a bit of an unknown quantity. I don't think a club achieves anything, at least not long-term, without a solid board making quality decisions. So I think we've just hit the point where we find out if FSG are as serious and competent as they initially appeared, and the clock is ticking. I'm inclined to believe they are, but I tend to try and see the best in people.

[soxfan]

FSG claims Kenny was to get Liverpool into the top four. He didn't and coupled with quite a few terrible results, off he goes.

You are molding the phrase to suit your agenda to make it look like FSG would have fired Kenny if he had finished one point out of fifth. We weren't even remotely close. One of our worst league seasons in decades. If we had ended up fifth or sixth within 6 or 8 points of fourth, Kenny would still probably be here.  (For the record, I wanted Kenny to stay.    But I certainly can see the logic for the opposite point of view that they took.)

the sticking point I have is the manner in which he went. And the seeming lack of strategy emanating from Boston. Of course you could argue we want things kept in house, but then complain when we're kept in the dark...

That's just it...it's all in-house, which is what everyone on RAWK was asking for when FSG took over. 

We don't know anything about how he went. Perhaps they were going to go to Liverpool this weekend to speak with Kenny, but Kenny said "I'm going on vacation, so can I fly to Boston to discuss my future now?" The club has said kind words about Kenny as he left, and he has been kind in return. So can we please take these men at their word and assume they disagreed about our progress, parted ways, and shook hands as gentlemen? Or is it mandatory for fans to call the owners c***s because they fired a man who had us mired in 8th place, legend though he is?

Lack of strategy you say? How do you know? I'll take an educated guess that John Henry, a billionaire stock trader, and Tom Werner, a near-billionaire TV executive, who won 2 World Series titles after buying another sports club that had won zero titles for the 86 years prior, probably have put together a plan on how to grow a successful business. Just guessing though...   

[Holwing Fantod]

You are molding the phrase to suit your agenda to make it look like FSG would have fired Kenny if he had finished one point out of fifth. We weren't even remotely close. One of our worst league seasons in decades. If we had ended up fifth or sixth within 6 or 8 points of fourth, Kenny would still probably be here.  (For the record, I wanted Kenny to stay.    But I certainly can see the logic for the opposite point of view that they took.)That's just it...it's all in-house, which is what everyone on RAWK was asking for when FSG took over. 

We don't know anything about how he went. Perhaps they were going to go to Liverpool this weekend to speak with Kenny, but Kenny said "I'm going on vacation, so can I fly to Boston to discuss my future now?" The club has said kind words about Kenny as he left, and he has been kind in return. So can we please take these men at their word and assume they disagreed about our progress, parted ways, and shook hands as gentlemen? Or is it mandatory for fans to call the owners c***s because they fired a man who had us mired in 8th place, legend though he is?

Lack of strategy you say? How do you know? I'll take an educated guess that John Henry, a billionaire stock trader, and Tom Werner, a near-billionaire TV executive, who won 2 World Series titles after buying another sports club that had won zero titles for the 86 years prior, probably have put together a plan on how to grow a successful business. Just guessing though... 

Excellent post. 

[Garcepticon]

People may snort at this suggestion as revisionist, but several people guessed at this, some in January, and more and more as things unfolded since that time. The notion was that Dalglish was a dead man walking, and when that idea takes root, well, either those who pay the piper step in and confirm his authority, or they leave him hanging out to dry.

"TOM Werner, Liverpool chairman, has said that manager Kenny Dalglish has the "full support" of the board following the news that Damien Comolli, the club's director of football, has been sacked."

Soure: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/liverpool-chairman-tom-werner-has-great-confidence-in-kenny-dalglish-following-damien-comollis-sacking-3079586.html

Is that not enough confirmation of authority? Are you suggesting that visit from John Henry involved an undermining of authority?

Lack of strategy you say? How do you know? I'll take an educated guess that John Henry, a billionaire stock trader, and Tom Werner, a near-billionaire TV executive, who won 2 World Series titles after buying another sports club that had won zero titles for the 86 years prior, probably have put together a plan on how to grow a successful business. Just guessing though... 

Successful in a completely different sport, which informed them for their choice of DOF. I'm not sure how their success in Boston translates to footballl because they had no knowledge of football and the methods of successful clubs, at the moment we have to rely upon their judgement of advisers. Their record so far on that count hasn't been spectacular, has it?

One of the things that is pissing me off is this 'Kenny wasn't their man'. Why would that matter? Surely knowing nothing about football would mean they aren't qualified to choose 'their man'? Werner and Henry said they wanted a young manager post -Hodgson and if Kenny has been sacked because he is too old, and that prejudice against older managers was formed when they knew nothing about football then that is quite worrying. From it I infer that what they desire is to put their own vision of how LFC should be run onto the club, when that vision was already decided when they were just beginning to learn about football. Strikes me as bold, but ultimately stupid.

It shouldn't have mattered if he was 'their man', and if he wasn't and that counted against him then I'm honestly a bit fucking pissed off.

[DyingAtheist]

One day I'll understand how people honestly believe that FSG don't have any idea about what they're doing, from a hiring POV at least.
The fact is I'll be extremely surprised if there haven't been interviews conducted for every single open position the club currently has. People keep saying they're not football people, FSG, well sure maybe they're not, but that's hardly relevant.
They're extremely successful businessmen, so while they may have handled the sacking of Dalglish poorly, a decision most of us condemn anyway, I have full faith that in terms of hiring new recruits and admins that they know full well what they're doing.

People have to realise that FSG bought LFC to make money (that's okay) and that the club is huge for anyone who owns it, the owners aren't about to let it die on its feet.

[PanchDeBurca]

But how do you handle the sacking of a club legend?  There is no easy way to do it from what i can see - especially a man of the stature of King Kenny. 

I don't think they have done anything necessarily wrong such as approaching the likes of Klinsman behind his back or anything like this. Certainly not from the bits i have read

What could that have done better given the decision they had made? There is no easy option

[tea_tree]

It's a difficult question to answer, because we don't really know how they handled it, do we?  Who made the decision, and what makes them qualified to make it?  What were their reasons?  There's arguments for and against the sacking, the league form wasn't good enough, but the cup form was and there are some serious mitigating factors.  It's not easy.  I don't think there's anyone at the club who is qualified to make a judgement on Kenny's style of play and football/coaching philosophy and whether it is the correct way forward.

From a PR point of view, there really is no right way to handle the sacking of a legend like Kenny.  We've seen the club be too harsh (the campaign to undermine Rafa started before the results went downhill) and too soft (opting for a joint manager rather than sacking Evans).  What would be the right way to deal with it?

I think we'll know a lot more at the end of the Summer depending on who/what is in place.  There's a lot of appointments to make and a stadium to get started on.  If they convince me that they had a solid plan, and Kenny just didn't fit into it, that's one thing.  If this is a panic sacking and we get another HodgePodge appointment, that's something else entirely...

Out of interest what are the serious mitigating circumstances?

I agree with the rest of your post btw, well said.

[redbyrdz]

"TOM Werner, Liverpool chairman, has said that manager Kenny Dalglish has the "full support" of the board following the news that Damien Comolli, the club's director of football, has been sacked."

Soure: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/liverpool-chairman-tom-werner-has-great-confidence-in-kenny-dalglish-following-damien-comollis-sacking-3079586.html

Is that not enough confirmation of authority? Are you suggesting that visit from John Henry involved an undermining of authority?

That's not confirmation, it's the opposite - the "Vote of Confidence". Usually means the person in question gets the sack very soon. Watch out for it, you'll see it a lot.

[Garcepticon]

That's not confirmation, it's the opposite - the "Vote of Confidence". Usually means the person in question gets the sack very soon. Watch out for it, you'll see it a lot.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/891735/dave-whelan-gives-vote-of-confidence-to-roberto-martinez?cc=5739

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/876006-arsene-wenger-handed-vote-of-confidence-by-arsenal-ceo-ivan-gazidis

Not always. What else is a board supposed to do?

[Vulmea]

Lack of strategy you say? How do you know? I'll take an educated guess that John Henry, a billionaire stock trader, and Tom Werner, a near-billionaire TV executive, who won 2 World Series titles after buying another sports club that had won zero titles for the 86 years prior, probably have put together a plan on how to grow a successful business. Just guessing though...   

Don't really have a problem with much of this post except we have two baseball fans sacking a club legend without any understanding of the game or the club. Now they may feel they have an understanding after 18 months but they don't. It isn't something written down, you can't really read all about it especially when 80% of your time is spent watching baseball and 95% in the good 'ol US of A. They may even have asked expert advice - but the one expert they hired they had already sacked - so its unclear who that has been from - is there anybody out there who knows LFC better than Kenny?

So sure they may have a plan but the question would be whether its worth the software its written on.

The previous 'encumbants' (pardon pun) sought out Jurgen Klinsamn to advise them a nice lad by all accounts but clueless about managing in the premiership, and clueless about LFC.

We currently have a club with no structure, no comms, no DoF, no manager and we are just about to enter the transfer window having undertaken a massive restructure in the last and with no real understanding of whether another is required in this one.

Exactly who will advise them of who to hire?

Keeping things behind closed doors is relatively easy when no ones inside them I guess.

[Pure Blood Red]

Let's face it there was never going to be a right way to handle letting Dalglish go,me myself am devastated,I'd championed the return of kenny for years and always thought he should have been brought back after souness or Evans,I'm only 29 so I've basically spent the best part of twenty year's wanting kenny back,giv or take a few good years under houllier and Rafa.We've played better football for the last eighteen months than what we had done in the eighteen months prior to that,there was clear progress,two cup finals and a manager who more than just fits&understands us.so I conclude that fsg have handled this extremely badly because ther never should have been anything to handle,at least not after another half decent transfer kitty and a season to tweek the wee problems,8th place does not give credit to the season we've had and the squad that was being assembled,I just hope that gag get it right and prove me wrong  so my kids don't grow up supporting a mid table team.