Author Topic: Sexual Abuser Donald Trump Indicted  (Read 375155 times)

Online John C

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2760 on: August 9, 2022, 09:58:56 am »
It's the rant of a crazed idiot devoid of reality. Projectionism at its finest.

Lock him up.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2761 on: August 9, 2022, 10:38:58 am »
So that would be the same FBI that is headed by Christopher A Wray who Trump nominated to replace Comey.

Trump doesn’t really get people who take their oathes of office seriously & just want to do their jobs. He thinks everyone lies & cheats & is corrupt to the core. That’s why he idolises the likes of Putin.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2762 on: August 9, 2022, 10:44:18 am »
So reporters saying they left with very little. I assume that if the FBI raids somewhere they are certain what they are after is there are the time, you don't get a judge to sign off on something on the vague hope something incriminating turns up. The guy would have been under surveillance for a while and they would know 100% that what they needed was in that safe at that time.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2763 on: August 9, 2022, 11:47:22 am »
You don't just get a warrant unless you can convince a judge; especially, I imagine, if it involves a former president. That's unprecedented.

Trump's people aren't smart enough to bait the FBI into searching for something that isn't there, so they either got what they're after or someone effed up big time. Although, as Glenn Kirschner points out, Giuliani's devices were seized 18 months ago and he's not been charged over anything relating to that.

I think Trump's away from Mar A-Lago for the summer, so I'd be interested in knowing if that influenced the timing. I'm also curious to see if this spooks Trump into declaring himself for 2024.
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Offline Linudden

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2764 on: August 9, 2022, 12:35:13 pm »
People ignore his blatantly transparent lies because they want to believe. The world will be a better place when he`s gone. Unfortunately there will be a new batch of more competent fascists like De Santis, Hawley etc. waiting in the wings.

De Santis literally cancelled government responses to covid because he didn't believe that government had anyting to do with a pandemic response. You could call him a lot of things like an anarcho-capitalist, religious right et cetera but the F-word ain't one of them based on his actual governance. It literally makes no sense. It's on par with cooks calling the corporate liberal Obama a 'socialist'.

Either way, the FBI better have found something at that clown's residence or they have screwed up their reputation to insane levels.
« Last Edit: August 9, 2022, 12:38:59 pm by Linudden »
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2765 on: August 9, 2022, 12:39:46 pm »
De Santis literally cancelled government responses to covid because he didn't believe that government had anyting to do with a pandemic response. You could call him a lot of things like an anarcho-capitalist, religious right et cetera but the F-word ain't one of them based on his actual governance. It literally makes no sense. It's on par with cooks calling Obama a 'socialist'.

Either way, the FBI better have found something at that clown's residence or they have screwed up their reputation to insane levels.

Tell that to Disney, school boards, librarians & anyone wanting what was previously a legal abortion.
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Offline Linudden

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2766 on: August 9, 2022, 12:40:26 pm »
Abortion is not illegal in Florida. De Santis has not called for it to be banned either. It's a red-leaning swing state so it would make no sense.

You can call him religious right but the guy who literally had the least government in the world around 2020-21 isn't exactly fitting the junta general template really. Pinochet would've had a ten-year lockdown if covid had shown up during his tenure for crying out loud. That really would've stifled descent.
« Last Edit: August 9, 2022, 12:49:48 pm by Linudden »
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2767 on: August 9, 2022, 12:41:12 pm »
Yet…what about the rest?

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Offline Linudden

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2768 on: August 9, 2022, 12:43:36 pm »
Yet…what about the rest?

It's the usual suspects of US politicians being shite. I'd not vote for any of them. They only serve the military and corporations regardless of letter behind the name.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2769 on: August 9, 2022, 12:45:12 pm »
Either way, the FBI better have found something at that clown's residence or they have screwed up their reputation to insane levels.

So Marjorie Taylor Greene is now calling for to 'Defund The FBI' which is funny considering she was a major voice in the 'Back The Blue' movement which was to counter the 'Defund The Police' calls which came out of the George Floyd protests.
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Offline Linudden

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2770 on: August 9, 2022, 12:46:07 pm »
MTG is clinically insane. With friends like her, the Republicans don't need enemies.

Either way, the whole political system over there by nature is tilting towards the F-route if you go by the literal definition of the word: the merger between corporate and government bodies to benefit a small oligarchy. In other words people owning military stocks and Fortune 100 companies who are able to effortlessly use government to expand their wealth at the expense of the poor. Obviously the United States is a much freer country in a civic sense, but the economic system both under Dems and GOP has worrying resemblances of doctrinary far-right tendencies.
« Last Edit: August 9, 2022, 12:59:03 pm by Linudden »
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2771 on: August 9, 2022, 02:16:42 pm »
The best way to scare a Tory is to read and get rich” - Idles.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2772 on: August 9, 2022, 02:34:21 pm »
It's the usual suspects of US politicians being shite. I'd not vote for any of them. They only serve the military and corporations regardless of letter behind the name.
You have to accept how things are rather than how you want them to be, the US is to the right so the Democrats have to move to the right to survive.
Refusing to vote for the most left wing politicians only forces them to move to the right even further, your lucky, you don't have to live with the consequences of this.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2773 on: August 9, 2022, 03:43:25 pm »
I'm really tired of the "all politicians are as bad as each other, self serving" etc etc perspective.

You can label it whatever you like - fascist, communist, etc - but the fact is there is a political movement in the United States of America that is looking to establish a dictatorship. They are looking to serve the interests of the few, not the many, and looking to impose laws and lifestyles that the majority of people in the country oppose.

Whatever else they might be guilty of, either through action or inaction, that political movement is NOT the Democrats.

This is not a simplistic interpretation. Those behind this have made little secret of their intentions. They want power for the sake of having power, because they know best, and damn anyone who disagrees with them.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2774 on: August 9, 2022, 03:54:11 pm »


Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2775 on: August 9, 2022, 04:12:57 pm »
So Marjorie Taylor Greene is now calling for to 'Defund The FBI' which is funny considering she was a major voice in the 'Back The Blue' movement which was to counter the 'Defund The Police' calls which came out of the George Floyd protests.

"There go my people. I must find out where they are going so I can lead them"

She's like Madame La Farge has leapt out of the book into real life..
« Last Edit: August 9, 2022, 04:14:57 pm by Gili Gulu »
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2776 on: August 9, 2022, 04:52:14 pm »
Abortion is not illegal in Florida. De Santis has not called for it to be banned either. It's a red-leaning swing state so it would make no sense.

You can call him religious right but the guy who literally had the least government in the world around 2020-21 isn't exactly fitting the junta general template really. Pinochet would've had a ten-year lockdown if covid had shown up during his tenure for crying out loud. That really would've stifled descent.

WTF you on about,he just sacked an official because they wouldn't enact his abortion laws.
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Offline Linudden

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2778 on: August 9, 2022, 08:07:13 pm »
WTF you on about,he just sacked an official because they wouldn't enact his abortion laws.

Wrong. Do you even read the news? He suspended someone for a hypothetical that the official wouldn't enforce a hypothetical law that hasn't been passed. I think it's wrong to do so pre-emptively, but I'm neither a Republican, governor nor a Floridian or American so I don't really have any say, now do I?

Either way, it kind of makes sense to have a functioning governance that a person in a position to enforce the law actually does so even if they don't agree with it or else that's called anarchy. Floridians have a chance to elect a new governor, senate and state house in three months time if they disagree with what they have in store. The Florida Dems would definitely legalize late-term abortions of eight-month babies so if that's what the voters want, they'll get it. As a matter of fact being a swing state, Florida is a lot more likely to enact a 15-week ban similar to most of Europe than go down the Alabama and Mississippi route. It's not that they wouldn't want to as Republican politicians, it's that Florida isn't that kind of state. Broward County is too populous for FL to be a one-party state (for now).

Personally I think a 15-week limit is perfectly reasonable. Anything after that it's very sketchy with regards to the baby feeling pain to say the least. I'll never apologize for thinking late term elective abortions are plain wrong. That's not women's rights, that's just bad mojo. Not to mention the other side of the women's rights coin -  thousands of baby girls (and boys) who could survive in an incubator are just terminated. That's another part of the extremes of America. One party likes to allow aborting babies that would survive outside of the womb and the other thinks contraception is bad and that teachers should be armed :butt Clown place. Glad I'm not living there.

One thing is clear though, there's nothing DeSantis has done to this point that in any way shape or form would be classified as fascism according to any credible definitions.
« Last Edit: August 9, 2022, 08:22:29 pm by Linudden »
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Offline TSC

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2779 on: August 9, 2022, 09:00:31 pm »
Wrong. Do you even read the news? He suspended someone for a hypothetical that the official wouldn't enforce a hypothetical law that hasn't been passed. I think it's wrong to do so pre-emptively, but I'm neither a Republican, governor nor a Floridian or American so I don't really have any say, now do I?

Either way, it kind of makes sense to have a functioning governance that a person in a position to enforce the law actually does so even if they don't agree with it or else that's called anarchy. Floridians have a chance to elect a new governor, senate and state house in three months time if they disagree with what they have in store. The Florida Dems would definitely legalize late-term abortions of eight-month babies so if that's what the voters want, they'll get it. As a matter of fact being a swing state, Florida is a lot more likely to enact a 15-week ban similar to most of Europe than go down the Alabama and Mississippi route. It's not that they wouldn't want to as Republican politicians, it's that Florida isn't that kind of state. Broward County is too populous for FL to be a one-party state (for now).

Personally I think a 15-week limit is perfectly reasonable. Anything after that it's very sketchy with regards to the baby feeling pain to say the least. I'll never apologize for thinking late term elective abortions are plain wrong. That's not women's rights, that's just bad mojo. Not to mention the other side of the women's rights coin -  thousands of baby girls (and boys) who could survive in an incubator are just terminated. That's another part of the extremes of America. One party likes to allow aborting babies that would survive outside of the womb and the other thinks contraception is bad and that teachers should be armed :butt Clown place. Glad I'm not living there.

One thing is clear though, there's nothing DeSantis has done to this point that in any way shape or form would be classified as fascism according to any credible definitions.

8 month baby abortions ffs? As for the rest, at least think before hitting ‘post’.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2780 on: August 10, 2022, 09:30:41 am »


One thing is clear though, there's nothing DeSantis has done to this point that in any way shape or form would be classified as fascism according to any credible definitions.

You say potato, i say Fascist. Ok, he doesn`t go around grasping a little bunch of sticks or wear a military uniform. Perhaps my view is out-with your undergraduate definitions, but i know i fascist when i see one the same way i know a total fud when i see one.

https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/2021/06/florida-goes-full-fascist-ron-desantis-sparks-furious-backlash-with-authoritarian-campus-political-surveys/

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/02/03/oklh-f03.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/desantis-is-very-dangerous-individual-without-trumps-drama-expert-2022-6?r=US&IR=T

DeSantis has recently signed controversial bills like Florida's "Don't Say Gay" bill — which limits teachers' curriculum around sexual orientation and gender identity in grades Kindergarten through third — and the
Stop WOKE Act, which restricts how race is discussed in workplaces, schools, and colleges. He also implemented an Office of Election Crimes and Security, rankling voting rights advocates.


As for you pushing your little right-wing propaganda piece about Democrats advocating 8 month abortions, it`s absolute garbage.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/24/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-u-s-2/

"When during pregnancy do most abortions occur?

The vast majority of abortions – around nine-in-ten – occur during the first trimester of a pregnancy. In 2019, 93% of abortions occurred during the first trimester – that is, at or before 13 weeks of gestation, according to the CDC. An additional 6% occurred between 14 and 20 weeks of pregnancy, and 1% were performed at 21 weeks or more of gestation. These CDC figures include data from 42 states and New York City (but not the rest of New York)."

If you think that the Democratic Party want 8 month abortions available as a matter of choice, rather than medical necessity you have lost your mind. Perhaps you have personal or religious beliefs regarding abortion, but don`t push the lies of bad faith (no pun intended) actors and opportunistic politicians. I`m done with reading your crap in every thread.
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2781 on: August 10, 2022, 09:59:45 am »
This decision could prove consequentional

POLITICO@politico
After calling for Hillary Clinton to be jailed, in 2018 Trump signed a law that stiffened the penalty for the unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents from one year to five years, turning it into a felony offense


Offline Jshooters

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2782 on: August 10, 2022, 10:25:42 am »
So reporters saying they left with very little. I assume that if the FBI raids somewhere they are certain what they are after is there are the time, you don't get a judge to sign off on something on the vague hope something incriminating turns up. The guy would have been under surveillance for a while and they would know 100% that what they needed was in that safe at that time.

10 boxes according to this:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/fbi-search-trump-maralago-evidence-b2141907.html

Quote
The FBI seized about 10 boxes of material from Donald Trump’s home at his Mar-a-Lago club in Florida, the Wall Street Journal reports, citing unnamed sources familiar with the matter.

The search on Monday was part of the Justice Department’s investigation into how the former president handled sensitive documents at the end of his administration.

It is unrelated to DOJ’s separate inquiry into the January 6 riots at the US Capitol, a probe that is reportedly also focusing in part on the former president.....
Believer

Offline classycarra

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2783 on: August 10, 2022, 10:31:08 am »
One thing is clear though, there's nothing DeSantis has done to this point that in any way shape or form would be classified as fascism according to any credible definitions.

To be honest, quite surprisingly for an academic political scientist, you seem to have been the one to struggle with credible definitions here.

Fascist was being proposed as a label for that politician, and you brought up junta generals and Pinochet as a justification for why he wasn't a fascist. Wasn't sure if it was an accidental conflation, or if you really believe that only uniform wearing dictators can legitimately be labelled fascists?!

One of the things I liked about Politics when I chose it as the subject for my first degree was that I could learn history and learn social science methods, but luckily the workload for appraising sources was a lot lighter. Still, I always knew it was a vital part of it (and after a few years of thinking I'd never get much use out of learning those skills, it's eventually been given a good workout in my professional life too).

I'm wondering if - given you've been fooled by some republican/christian right leaning propaganda - about late term abortions/'allowing children that could survive to die', and subsequently spread that disinformation here, you might want to reflect on your ability to appraise sources. Killie's provided some good sources to dig into. Feeling like you have expert knowledge on a lot of disparate topics, even in spite of some not infrequent disagreements from people who actually know the various fields, feels like a disparity that could actually provide a health kind of warning that noone knows it all. Taking that on the chin, accepting what you know and what you don't know, might be something you perceive as undesirable as it might feel like a weakness. On the contrary, that level of awareness is a strength - and that can really focus and reenergise that desire to learn in a very productive way.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 10:33:25 am by Classycara »

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2784 on: August 10, 2022, 11:23:10 am »
10 boxes according to this:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/fbi-search-trump-maralago-evidence-b2141907.html

If nothing comes of this it's going to be petrol to the fire of those on the right. He's already using it to raise money and his fans are liking the current US political situation to the like of Venezuela and China.
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Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2785 on: August 10, 2022, 11:37:20 am »
I'm allowing myself to get a little hopeful that there will be some legal consequences for Republicans' treason.

There must have been a pretty convincing level of supporting intelligence provided to the magistrate judge who approved the warrant. He's married to a District Judge appointed by a Republican governor, and was elected into his position by a panel of Judges who I'd assume were also Republican appointees.

The mobile phone of a House Representative has now been seized, Scott Perry of Pennsylvania.
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2786 on: August 10, 2022, 12:13:22 pm »
Hugh Hewitt`s Right Wing opinion on the Mar-a-Lago raid:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/08/09/trump-search-warrant-make-public/


Opinion  Trump should make the search warrant public

By Hugh Hewitt
Contributing columnist
August 9, 2022 at 6:11 p.m. EDT

Authorities stand outside Mar-a-Lago, the residence of former president Donald Trump, amid reports of the FBI executing a search warrant as a part of a document investigation, in Palm Beach, Fla., on Aug. 9. (Cristobal Herrera-Ulashkevich/EPA-EFE/Shutterstock)




There is little doubt that the residence and offices of a former president can be subjected to lawful searches and seizures. Anyone doubting this should read the opinion of Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. in 2020’s Trump v. Vance as well as the concurrence by Justices Neil M. Gorsuch and Brett M. Kavanaugh.

In that case, a New York state grand jury subpoena had been served on the president’s longtime accounting firm for the president’s papers. The Vance opinions review all the relevant precedents involving Thomas Jefferson, Richard M. Nixon and Bill Clinton. The justices, including the dissenters, agreed that not all criminal subpoenas of a sitting president were barred. “On that point the Court is unanimous,” the chief justice concluded.

If a sitting president is in some circumstances subject to criminal subpoenas from state officials, a former president can most certainly be subjected to criminal process by federal agents. This has never happened before, but as with all things Trump, the past is no guide to the present.


Still, the American public needs to see the warrant — all of it. The former president has a copy; he should make it public. It likely lists the items to be seized and the laws allegedly violated. The affidavit supporting the warrant is probably sealed, former prosecutors say, and Attorney General Merrick Garland can seek to unseal it.


Citizens need to know whether this a reasonable search based on probable cause of some crime by someone with access to Mar-a-Lago — as a judge has clearly decided there is probable cause to conclude — or yet another unmerited strike at the 45th president by the latest in the long line of former federal officials who have tried to take Donald Trump down a peg, or behind bars, and failed.

The questions are: What is the Justice Department looking for, and was this necessary?


So far, it is clearly a search that causes paroxysms of joy and rage on both left and right and is sure to dominate conversation both inside and outside the Beltway for weeks. I head to Wyoming over the weekend to interview GOP candidates ahead of the primary there next week. The onstage conversations will be about inflation and the Democrats enacting a massive expansion of the IRS over the next decade. The hallways, meanwhile, will be full of “Trump got raided” chatter.

Most Republicans rightly believe that Trump has been unfairly targeted by civil servants motivated by partisanship going back years, long before his stunning election in 2016 and certainly thereafter. The “Steele dossier,” now thoroughly discredited, the charges of collusion with Russia debunked by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, and the allegations of obstruction of justice dismissed as insubstantial by Attorney General William P. Barr all helped create an automatic suspicion on the right of this latest search.


“We are a nation of laws, nobody’s above the law, that’s for darn sure,” Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) told me Monday night. “But the politics around getting Trump have been going on so long and so often that we’re talking about constitutional principles here. This is a dangerous moment for the American Constitution. We’ll see how this plays out.”


All reports of the search at Mar-a-Lago state that the matter turned on the former president’s handling of classified information. It is important to know exactly what was taken and who has custody of it. Even though Justice Department prosecutors sought this warrant, it is received wisdom on the right that the government has been willing to bend its own rules in the past to put Trump under unfair scrutiny.

Graham, in our conversation, seemed to draw a distinction between Trump’s comments in the hours before the Jan. 6 riot in Washington and what news reports, including those by The Post, said was the latest search for missing classified documents.

“I’d hate to have to prove that Donald Trump conspired with anybody about anything,” he said. “That means you’ve got to have a plan and stick with it. Good luck,” he joked. “That’s not his strong suit. So, he was a good president, but that’s not his strong suit.”



Even Republicans who might oppose another presidential run by Trump are aware that this search could compel him to run sooner and harder than he might have otherwise planned. Another attempted takedown of the most investigated president in history could leave the former president stronger politically with his base than before — and personally angry enough to run again even if he had been toying with not doing so.

“You know,” Graham warned, “just be careful what you wish for … this guy, he’s been the most blessed person in the world in terms of his enemies.” Be careful what you wish for indeed.

If the investigation misses and sputters out in another fruitless witch hunt in the endless movie of “Get Trump,” the Trump-haters will have missed — again. And 45 will start planning on being 47.



Opinion by Hugh Hewitt
Hugh Hewitt is a nationally syndicated radio host on the Salem Radio Network. He is also a professor at Chapman University School of Law, where he has taught constitutional law since 1996.  Twitter



Not sure any of these things (bolded) are true, Hugh.

It would be interesting to see the warrant though.
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2787 on: August 10, 2022, 03:53:16 pm »
Trump plead the 5th during his deposition.

Offline Chakan

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2788 on: August 10, 2022, 03:53:34 pm »
Trump plead the 5th during his deposition.

I'd be surprised if he did anything else.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2789 on: August 10, 2022, 03:57:10 pm »
https://mobile.twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/989275369843937281

That's video of him asking why you would take the fifth if you're innocent. Enjoy.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2790 on: August 10, 2022, 03:59:10 pm »
Trump plead the 5th during his deposition.

Also Donald Trump in 2016

Quote
You see the mob takes the Fifth,” he said. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”

Offline Riquende

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2791 on: August 10, 2022, 04:00:03 pm »
https://mobile.twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/989275369843937281

That's video of him asking why you would take the fifth if you're innocent. Enjoy.

He clearly didn't write his official statement, but it does look to head off that criticism.

Quote from: Donald J Toddler
I once asked, “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?” Now I know the answer to that question. When your family, your company, and all the people in your orbit have become the targets of an unfounded, politically motivated Witch Hunt supported by lawyers, prosecutors, and the Fake News Media, you have no choice. If there was any question in my mind, the raid of my home, Mar-a-Lago, on Monday by the FBI, just two days prior to this deposition, wiped out any uncertainty. I have absolutely no choice because the current Administration and many prosecutors in this Country have lost all moral and ethical bounds of decency.

Accordingly, under the advice of my counsel and for all of the above reasons, I declined to answer the questions under the rights and privileges afforded to every citizen under the United States Constitution.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2792 on: August 10, 2022, 04:41:38 pm »
One thing is clear though, there's nothing DeSantis has done to this point that in any way shape or form would be classified as fascism according to any credible definitions.
V V V
Wrong. Do you even read the news?
Seeing though you made that statements as a weird definitive fact, can you substantiate this line which you also claim as a definite fact, please?
The Florida Dems would definitely legalize late-term abortions of eight-month babies.

Offline macca007

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2793 on: August 10, 2022, 05:48:30 pm »

Personally I think a 15-week limit is perfectly reasonable. Anything after that it's very sketchy with regards to the baby feeling pain to say the least. I'll never apologize for thinking late term elective abortions are plain wrong. That's not women's rights, that's just bad mojo. Not to mention the other side of the women's rights coin -  thousands of baby girls (and boys) who could survive in an incubator are just terminated. That's another part of the extremes of America. One party likes to allow aborting babies that would survive outside of the womb and the other thinks contraception is bad and that teachers should be armed :butt Clown place. Glad I'm not living there.


Am I reading this correct in that you think any abortion after 15 weeks should be banned?

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2794 on: August 10, 2022, 08:15:35 pm »
Hopefully Trump will be the Republican nominee as there is hundreds of gaffs he said and made during his first term that can be used by the Democrats to entice the public out to vote. There was approx 100m adults in the States that didn't even bother to cast their votes in the last election. Surely a few ads on national TV showing Trump as the clown he is should be sufficient reason to get 10m of those voters off their fat asses and into the ballot boxes.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2795 on: August 10, 2022, 08:45:44 pm »
Polls on Trump running again have been conflicted. Republican lawmakers behind closed doors certainly don't want him running again, and the Jan 6th hearings seem to have tanked the idea, even amongst ardent MAGA fans. They still love him, but I think more a case of what he was rather than what he is - they love the idea of Trump, if you will.

That said, if he runs again, he'll almost certainly walk the nomination unless someone has the backbone to run against him, and actually publicly attack him. That just seems to be unthinkable for 99.5% of Republicans right now.

On the flip side, I think Biden should announce after the midterms that he won't seek a second term. It clears the field and clears the political air. He's had a good week, and there's some semblance of hope now that the midterms won't be the electoral bloodbath for the Democrats that we all feared it might become. He should take that opportunity to go out on a high.  I don't think Biden has it in him for another campaign, either against Trump or someone younger, slicker, and quicker on their verbal feet.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2796 on: August 10, 2022, 09:47:18 pm »
Am I reading this correct in that you think any abortion after 15 weeks should be banned?

Unless there's a danger for the mothers' life or really extreme circumstances like a pregnancy resulted by sexual assault being discovered late (for a few more weeks on that one), yes. If I recally correctly 97 % of abortions are before week 12 which I'm totally cool with so there's just no reason arbitrarily extending it for cases where the baby is likely to feel pain.

15 weeks is quite a standard number in Europe, not strange at all. It's called a moderate pro-choice position.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2797 on: August 10, 2022, 10:00:20 pm »
So an abused child should be forced to give birth if they have managed to keep it quiet (the assault because they might not know they are pregnant) for a few (?) weeks more than 15wks.

That isn't pro-choice,that's called forced birth mate.
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Offline Circa1892

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2798 on: August 10, 2022, 10:12:05 pm »
Polls on Trump running again have been conflicted. Republican lawmakers behind closed doors certainly don't want him running again, and the Jan 6th hearings seem to have tanked the idea, even amongst ardent MAGA fans. They still love him, but I think more a case of what he was rather than what he is - they love the idea of Trump, if you will.

That said, if he runs again, he'll almost certainly walk the nomination unless someone has the backbone to run against him, and actually publicly attack him. That just seems to be unthinkable for 99.5% of Republicans right now.

On the flip side, I think Biden should announce after the midterms that he won't seek a second term. It clears the field and clears the political air. He's had a good week, and there's some semblance of hope now that the midterms won't be the electoral bloodbath for the Democrats that we all feared it might become. He should take that opportunity to go out on a high.  I don't think Biden has it in him for another campaign, either against Trump or someone younger, slicker, and quicker on their verbal feet.

I think the problem for 24 would be the same as in 20. Biden is possibly the only one who can beat Trump (but the worst to go up against someone else).

Biden carried respect as a former VP, someone around forever, great relationships with former grandees in the Republican Party. He had that “part of the furniture” vibe that encouraged enough Republicans to either give him a vote or at the very least not be that arsed and stay home. He’ll get millions less votes in the progressive coastal states, but they’re worth diddly squat…

Offline skipper757

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #2799 on: August 10, 2022, 10:25:38 pm »
The 2024 landscape can be very different, so it's hard to tell.  There's a lot of positive momentum among Democrats, and Trump's legal troubles (and the subsequent reaction by the right) are a reminder of the "quality" of the opposition.  In addition, the Dobbs decision has fueled more support on the left.  The Dems might be able to hold the Senate (though the House is a long shot).  The issue is then Biden essentially becomes a lame duck in terms of legislation for 2024 (if the Dems lose the House).  But, the overall environment could still look good going into 2024 (it'd be somewhat similar to Obama's first term), and against Trump, you'd probably back Biden.  Biden announcing that he's not running could take away the incumbent advantage, and it could get nasty with party in-fighting.  However, if the environment looks bad for 2024, you might get a really weak slate of candidates.  It's hard to tell right now.

Trump's legal woes provide an opening for any Democratic candidate for president in 2024 though.

Kamala Harris' relative lack of spotlight and popularity is a big issue.  If Biden were to step aside, she'd almost certainly vie for the nomination, but of all those who want Biden to step aside, I doubt Kamala is at the top of the list for them.  That's a recipe for a what could be a tough primary for everyone.  If Harris was well-liked, the nomination is a no-brainer.
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