Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!

[Nobby Reserve]

Labour is utterly broken. Their strategy is that they need to be more like The Tories to get elected. The might be right, but so much for principles & leading instead of following the public.

It's depressing.

The Left seems incapable of weaving a cohesive narrative around their core principles of a redistributive ethos founded on strong and wide-ranging free public services paid for through predominantly direct taxation, along with strong workers' rights.

Elements of the Labour Party long ago abandoned this principle, and instead embraced a lighter form of Tory policy that sought to mitigate the worst impacts of corporate-capitalism. But this just hands the initiative to the right-wing to set the socio-economic agenda.

 

[KillieRed]

It's some one party state when a majority of local councils are run by other parties....

And co-alitions are formed by ‘natural enemies’ to thwart that ruling party. The SNP need to get their ducks in a row.

[KillieRed]

It's depressing.

The Left seems incapable of weaving a cohesive narrative around their core principles of a redistributive ethos founded on strong and wide-ranging free public services paid for through predominantly direct taxation, along with strong workers' rights.

Elements of the Labour Party long ago abandoned this principle, and instead embraced a lighter form of Tory policy that sought to mitigate the worst impacts of corporate-capitalism. But this just hands the initiative to the right-wing to set the socio-economic agenda.

Indeed, that is depressing.

[Elmo!]

And co-alitions are formed by ‘natural enemies’ to thwart that ruling party. The SNP need to get their ducks in a row.

Ah my local council, the Labour/Tory coalition. Th eone where the Labour councillors have been suspended by the party for 4 years without a final decision on their status after forming the coalition.

[Red-Soldier]

It's hardly surprising that the SNP dominate nationa Scottish politics.  Look at the absolute showers that are Scottish Labour/Tories.

[Nobby Reserve]

It's hardly surprising that the SNP dominate nationa Scottish politics.  Look at the absolute showers that are Scottish Labour/Tories.

The migration of votes from Scottish Labour to SNP began well before Scottish Labour crumbled into disarray.

It's also true that a substantial proportion of people who switched votes from Labour to SNP aren't died in the wool nationalists, either. Many switched due to a combination of the SNP offering a more progressive/left-leaning programme of policy, coupled with the sense that the SNP fight for what's best for Scotland and Scottish people, rather than a more UK-centric focus.

[Snail]

All a bit strange / comical:

Sienna Rodgers
@siennamarla
NEW: Labour's Liverpool mayor selection is being reopened

Labour spox: "After careful consideration, Labour is re-opening the selection for Liverpool Mayor."

"We are committed to ensuring members are able to choose the right candidate to stand up against the Conservatives, lead Liverpool out of the coronavirus crisis and fight for the resources that the city desperately needs."

Understand that no previous candidate will be invited to apply. New nominations must by in by 12pm on 25 February. The ballots will be distributed from 8 March and must be returned by 12pm on 29 March.

Thread: https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1364201262133219329?s=20

[KillieRed]

The migration of votes from Scottish Labour to SNP began well before Scottish Labour crumbled into disarray.

It's also true that a substantial proportion of people who switched votes from Labour to SNP aren't died in the wool nationalists, either. Many switched due to a combination of the SNP offering a more progressive/left-leaning programme of policy, coupled with the sense that the SNP fight for what's best for Scotland and Scottish people, rather than a more UK-centric focus.

I think you just described me. The SNP are just the best vehicle for independence at the moment. Let’s see what happens to our parliament after that. The common notion is that Scotland abandoned Labour, whereas it’s the other way round.

[Cpt_Reina]

All a bit strange / comical:

Thread: https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1364201262133219329?s=20

What's going on here?

Labour were unhappy with the candidate which looked like winning the selection so have engineered a way to exclude them?

[gazzalfc]

This is the closest we've been in my lifetime for a non labour candidate to win in Liverpool.

Only takes one of the current candidate list to run as an independent to split the votes

[Snail]

What's going on here?

Labour were unhappy with the candidate which looked like winning the selection so have engineered a way to exclude them?

My guess is the party didn't want to face awkward questions by singling out a black socialist, so they binned all three candidates instead.

Edit: Just under 48 hours to get the new nominations in. Doesn't seem too feasible... unless, of course, the party already have someone lined up.

[Snail]

This is the closest we've been in my lifetime for a non labour candidate to win in Liverpool.

Only takes one of the current candidate list to run as an independent to split the votes

Hope that's exactly what Rothery does.

[Cpt_Reina]

All sounds very undemocratic from the sensible adults in the room.

[Snail]

All sounds very undemocratic from the sensible adults in the room.

Just the party taking the piss out of the city as per.

[12C]

My guess is the party didn't want to face awkward questions by singling out a black socialist, so they binned all three candidates instead.

Edit: Just under 48 hours to get the new nominations in. Doesn't seem too feasible... unless, of course, the party already have someone lined up.

I heard that there were questions raised about this (apologies for it being the echo)

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/revealed-finances-liverpool-everton-match-15476762


Edit. I know it’s squawkbox but I presume they have basis for printing

https://skwawkbox.org/2021/02/06/exclusive-liverpool-mayoral-hopeful-fails-to-answer-serious-concerns-over-links-to-companys-cash-and-loan-transactions-and-to-right-wing-councillors-involved/

[Zeb]

Does look like a way to sidestep future scandal rather than factional shens. Or they'd not have been shortlisted in first place. Probably not a good idea to be close to Uncle Len's fun bus for the forseeable.

[Snail]

I heard that there were questions raised about this (apologies for it being the echo)

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/revealed-finances-liverpool-everton-match-15476762


Edit. I know it’s squawkbox but I presume they have basis for printing

https://skwawkbox.org/2021/02/06/exclusive-liverpool-mayoral-hopeful-fails-to-answer-serious-concerns-over-links-to-companys-cash-and-loan-transactions-and-to-right-wing-councillors-involved/

Hopefully the party will come out with their reasoning soon, then, and if they could also explain why they've only allowed 48 hours to get new nominations in that'd be great. Just need a bit of transparency, please.

[12C]

Hopefully the party will come out with their reasoning soon, then, and if they could also explain why they've only allowed 48 hours to get new nominations in that'd be great. Just need a bit of transparency, please.

Sending out an email to members, apparently before informing the prospective candidates, according to reports, is bloody disgraceful, and incredibly offensive.
Three local women candidates effectively barred from running. No reason given.
It leaves a real unproven cloud over their fitness for public office, which is a terrible thing to do without being able to give reasons.
I hope to goodness they haven’t got a paratrooper lined up to jump in, because of the short notice.

[Snail]

I hope to goodness they haven’t got a paratrooper lined up to jump in, because of the short notice.

I'd put money on it.

[TepidT2O]

A couple of things here...

If they are unfit for office, it’s not necessarily easy to give them that reason as it may lead to a legal challenge etc etc...  they may win on a technicality and you end up with someone if it for public office.  If this were a reason, I don’t have a problem with it.  There maybe stuff that can’t be said, or they may just be hideous to work with.

If it is because they want someone who better fits the image of the party then what’s the problem? Under corbyn they wanted more left wing people, of course they did, it was perfectly reasonable that the leadership (then as now) gave direction to this.... 

[Robinred]

I think you just described me. The SNP are just the best vehicle for independence at the moment. Let’s see what happens to our parliament after that. The common notion is that Scotland abandoned Labour, whereas it’s the other way round.

I have good friends in Fountainhall and Pitlochry who were lifelong Labour supporters. They now support SNP, despite grave misgivings, because their priority nowadays is simply to sever connections with England and the Tories. The folk I’m referring to incidentally are involved in trying to protect Atlantic salmon, and they are extremely critical of SNP’s cosy relationship with Norwegian owned - in the main - closed cage salmon farming practices. The roles of Fergus Ewing and Rosanna Cunningham in it all are shall we say, fishy, to say the least.

[12C]

Does look like a way to sidestep future scandal rather than factional shens. Or they'd not have been shortlisted in first place. Probably not a good idea to be close to Uncle Len's fun bus for the forseeable.

The fact that all three have effectively been barred from running means that unless a local Councillor throws their hat into the ring (because Labour have pledged to scrap the role and return to cabinet format something the candidates support, I can’t see a local MP standing) it looks like an outsider may be selected.
That may be necessary for a variety of reasons to do with scandals, but it looks pretty shit.
Are the Labour Party saying that the local party in the city is too corrupt? If so who allowed them to put forward candidates, and who did the interviewing in both the original and the latest round.

[Snail]

The fact that all three have effectively been barred from running means that unless a local Councillor throws their hat into the ring (because Labour have pledged to scrap the role and return to cabinet format something the candidates support, I can’t see a local MP standing) it looks like an outsider may be selected.
That may be necessary for a variety of reasons to do with scandals, but it looks pretty shit.
Are the Labour Party saying that the local party in the city is too corrupt? If so who allowed them to put forward candidates, and who did the interviewing in both the original and the latest round.

And, of course, one of the three candidates has been standing in as Mayor for quite some time now.

[Elmo!]

Had a similar issue for the Edinburgh Central constituency for the SNP ahead of the elections in May.

Three big names going for the seat (Angus Robertson, Joanna Cherry and Marco Biagi), and the SNP stood in to basically block Cherry from standing (aside from any other reason, she had only been re-elected for a new term in Westminster a few months earlier). It pissed off all the Cherry fans a lot.

I don't know anything about the Liverpool mayor situation but sometimes the central party have valid reasons to step in.

[TepidT2O]

What’s happening with Salmon?


Seems a total mess?

[12C]

A couple of things here...

If they are unfit for office, it’s not necessarily easy to give them that reason as it may lead to a legal challenge etc etc...  they may win on a technicality and you end up with someone if it for public office.  If this were a reason, I don’t have a problem with it.  There maybe stuff that can’t be said, or they may just be hideous to work with.

If it is because they want someone who better fits the image of the party then what’s the problem? Under corbyn they wanted more left wing people, of course they did, it was perfectly reasonable that the leadership (then as now) gave direction to this....

Image of the party?

Mmm. What’s Chuka up to these days.
He wears nice suits.

[Elmo!]

What’s happening with Salmon?


Seems a total mess?

Given Robinred's comments, I'm genuinely not sure if you are referring to Salmon or meant Salmond...? 

[TepidT2O]

Given Robinred's comments, I'm genuinely not sure if you are referring to Salmon or meant Salmond...? 

Oh shit...  !

[TepidT2O]

Image of the party?

Mmm. What’s Chuka up to these days.
He wears nice suits.

Political image...

I’ve never really had a problem with the central party picking candidates.... of course they want to ...

On the other hand, Id probably  be annoyed if it happened in my area...(given that it’s about as Tory as thatchers gusset here, there little chance of it making any difference).

[Zeb]

The fact that all three have effectively been barred from running means that unless a local Councillor throws their hat into the ring (because Labour have pledged to scrap the role and return to cabinet format something the candidates support, I can’t see a local MP standing) it looks like an outsider may be selected.
That may be necessary for a variety of reasons to do with scandals, but it looks pretty shit.
Are the Labour Party saying that the local party in the city is too corrupt? If so who allowed them to put forward candidates, and who did the interviewing in both the original and the latest round.

Subtext I'm taking from it is, yeah, corrupt, incompetent, or happy to look away from something the party is now aware could be a major issue. Pass on the rest. One way out might be to bring someone in who is definitely outside it. Better than Tories setting Liverpool's budgets direct from Westminster, I guess? Messy.

[Elmo!]

Oh shit...  !

Well I'm still not sure. 

The farmed salmon industry is just an environmental/ecological disaster. I saw a farm up close when I was in Ullapool last summer and it was horrific.

The Salmond thing is a long story, don't know where to start. Basically Salmond wanted to submit evidence to the inquiry and the Spectator has a copy, but the Crown Office and Rape Crisis Scotland argued it shouldn't be made public as there is a chance it could reveal the names of the accusers in Salmonds trial. There is a court order that is supposed to stop it being published but there has been a lot of back and forth, with different groups calling for different things. It got published by the Scottish Parliament yesterday, and to be honest didn't seem to have any of the bombshell evidence that it had been hyped up to be. Now it has been taken down again I think.

Salmond is supposed to be appearing at the inquiry tomorrow but it has been delayed multiple times already and he says he won't appear if this evidence isn't published beforehand.

[TepidT2O]

As I understand it, it was released heavily redacted, but was released as a full version last night and then withdrawn?

It seems to be a Salmond Sturgeon power battle...  I’m not sure I trust Salmond to tell the truth (but that’s just my impression)

[Elmo!]

As I understand it, it was released heavily redacted, but was released as a full version last night and then withdrawn?

It seems to be a Salmond Sturgeon power battle...  I’m not sure I trust Salmond to tell the truth (but that’s just my impression)

I don't trust him either. He also doesn't seem to have noticed the polling showing he is less popular in Scotland than Boris these days.... he isn't going to win any battle against Sturgeon.

[Snail]

Sienna Rodgers
@siennamarla

NEW: Understand that Anna Rothery intends to seek an injunction if the decision to reopen the Liverpool selection process without the previously shortlisted candidates is not reversed. "If the decision stands, then I will be left with no choice but to challenge it legally."

https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1364248836575739906?s=20

[Cpt_Reina]

Chaotic the key word.

[Snail]

Chaotic the key word.

Certainly seems like an interesting strategy for the party to be taking in the run-up to May's local elections. Never mind, Scottish Northern Liverpudlian voters have nowhere else to go.

[TepidT2O]

I don't trust him either. He also doesn't seem to have noticed the polling showing he is less popular in Scotland than Boris these days.... he isn't going to win any battle against Sturgeon.

When I say trust, I mean I don’t think I would feel personally safe in the same room as him.  I feel the same about a George Galloway.

Something of the psychopathic tendency about both of them in my opinion.

[Elmo!]

When I say trust, I mean I don’t think I would feel personally safe in the same room as him.  I feel the same about a George Galloway.

Something of the psychopathic tendency about both of them in my opinion.

Oh I agree with you there...

[John C]

There was an interesting discussion on todays The Bunker with Ayesha Hhazarika who gave some really valid reasons why Starmer shouldn't have demanded Hancock's resignation and later in the show David Blunkett joined and agreed with her entirely.

[Cpt_Reina]

Tweet from @BritainElects: Westminster voting intention:

CON: 43% (+2)
LAB: 37% (-1)
LDEM: 7% (-1)
GRN: 5% (-)
REFUK: 3% (+1)

via @RedfieldWilton, 22 Feb
Chgs. w/ 15 Feb
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/gb-voting-intention-22-february-2021/