Topic: AFCON/Copa America Draft - Round 1 Group A and B fixtures

[Hazell]

Hello and welcome to the Africa Cup of Nations and Copa America voting. With the two tournaments upon us, what better way to celebrate the close season than determining which of us knows more about world football? Which of us is Mohamed Salah and which is Kleberson? Who wants to have endless discussion about whether Bielsa's 3-3-1-3 was a genius formation or not? And who will be the first post the obligatory Anderson gif? And who will be crowned most knowledgable poster about these two summer tournaments?

Bear in mind a lot of teams have Liverpool players but leave your biases aside (or at least try!) and try to vote for which team is the best or at least the least worst.

The first to matches are from Groups A and B.

Group A:

Sheer Magnetism.   vs    Sir Pycho Sexy

    vs.   

Can't do a visual line up this time but it's a 4-2-3-1:

GK: Vincent Enyeama (NIG). AFCON winner, frequent Champions League player with Lille.

LB: Sergio Navarro (CHI). Captained Chile to 3rd in the 1962 World Cup, one of the innovators of the position with four at the back.

CB: Souleymane Diawara (SEN). Former Ligue 1 winner and team of the year member. A rock in central defence.

CB: Luis Amaranto Perea (COL). A central defender with the pace to play at right back, Perea won the Argentine Primera Division, and two Europa Leagues at Atletico Madrid, where he remains the club's longest serving foreign player.

RB: Maxi Pereira (URU). Copa America and multiple Primera League winner, and a world cup semi finalist, with the pace of a winger. Uruguay's most capped player.

MF: Naby Keita (GUI). An interception machine who can also carry the ball forward and distribute it quickly. You all know what he can do.

MF: Alex Song (CAM). Laid on 12 assists in Van Persie's golden season, people forget just how good he was at his peak. Together, that midfield has pace, strength, bite and technique.

AM: Kaka (BRA). Champions League, World Cup and Ballon d'Or winner. Quick, outrageously skillful and can slot in through balls as easily as he can finish.

LF: Diego Maradona (ARG). Perhaps the greatest player of all time and a serial winner.

RF: Ace Ntsoelengoe (SA). Reputedly the best player never able to compete in a major competition, due to South Africa's apartheid regime, Ace could do it all: go past player after player before hitting a defence-splitting pass. Incredible skill and vision with a striker's goal ratio.

CF: Hugo Sanchez (MEX). Incredible scoring ratio at the top level and the greatest bicycle kicker the world has ever known. The fourth highest scorer in La Liga history and a five-time La Liga winner.

Group B:

Max_Powers    vs    Lastrador

    vs.   [/b]

[Betty Blue]

Match 2 could easily be the final! Two great teams. Can't decide who to vote for here. I'll wait for a bit of discussion...

[deFacto please, you bastards]

This is tough, I may have to a flip a coin to decide

[PoetryInMotion]

I legitimately thought Match 2 could be a draw. Just went for fine margins there.

Match 1 was close too, but at least I could see a conclusion in 90 minutes.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Echoing what the lads have said --- this is tight in Match #2


Max P                      Toss Up              Lastrador

GK                             LB                        RB
Wide Attackers                                   CB Pairing
Attack Mid                                         CM Pairing   
                                                        Striker * by a skosh

Probably should be a draw.   

Initially, my first thought is Lastrador in pens --- mostly because of his Steven Appiah/Redondo picks
But one could make the case that Socrates and wide attackers could run roughshod over many a defense.

N'Kono is a much better Keeper than Bravo (imo), and this could go either way.

This is so hard.

Not going to vote yet, as it would be an injustice.  I invite both Max and Lastra to make their case for victory.

Will not offer much analysis of the other match since I am in their group.

Well out SPS and Sheer!!!

[Max_powers]

Echoing what the lads have said --- this is tight in Match #2


Max P                      Toss Up              Lastrador

GK                             LB                        RB
Wide Attackers                                   CB Pairing
Attack Mid                                         CM Pairing   
                                                        Striker * by a skosh

Probably should be a draw.   

Initially, my first thought is Lastrador in pens --- mostly because of his Steven Appiah/Redondo picks
But one could make the case that Socrates and wide attackers could run roughshod over many a defense.

N'Kono is a much better Keeper than Bravo (imo), and this could go either way.

This is so hard.

Not going to vote yet, as it would be an injustice.  I invite both Max and Lastra to make their case for victory.

Will not offer much analysis of the other match since I am in their group.

Well out SPS and Sheer!!!

So here is why  I believe that my team will end up winning.  I will give you three reasons.

Goalscorers all over the Pitch

Lastador has Ronaldo who is an all time great and Kanoute was a pretty decent striker himself. However, his wingers don't contribute a lot when it comes to goals. There are also no genuine goal scoring threat in his midfield.

In contrast my team has plently of goals. Falcao is one of the best finishers of modern era, before his injuries he was scoring almost a goal a game in European football. Even afterwards he has scored at better than a goal every other game. Mane just won the golden boot in premier league and scores more goals than most CF's. Kalou likewise has scored more than 10 goals in 11 seasons over his career. Then I can rely on long-range shooting and powerful runs from Socrates to provide another attacking threat.

The variety and quantity of players that can put the ball in the back of the net will make it difficult for any team to focus on one player.

Midfield Balance

My midfield consists of three players. Kieta can play the role of ball-winner and can break forward if needed. Pizzaro can dictate the tempo from the deep. Socrates can make runs into the box or drop deeper to link up play between the attack and my double pivot.

In Lastador's team he is playing a two-man midfield. And even though Redondo is amazing, his midfield would struggle to cope with three midfielders on my team. Which could mean that Kanoute or Ronaldo would have to often drop deep into midfield which is not ideal. 


Wide play

Both my full backs possess pace and good work rate and are known for making over-lapping runs. Mane and Kalou typically cut in from wide position and operate more narrowly which allows the fullbacks to progress up the pitch.

Lastador's best full back(Lauren) is playing behind Cuadrado who also made his name as a right wing back and likes to stay wide. So its likely that Lauren and Cuadrado will end up running into each other's way a lot.

[Betty Blue]

Just realised I'm in Group B with these two! Is Hazell trying to knock out his competition 

[Hazell]

Just realised I'm in Group B with these two! Is Hazell trying to knock out his competition 

Hey, when you've got Serge Aurier at right back, you need all the help you can get.

[Sheer Magnetism]

It was incredibly close but I went for Max. That front four just looks too strong.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Disappointed I'm losing but Maradona and kaka in the front line is sexy so cant complain

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Disappointed I'm losing but Maradona and kaka in the front line is sexy so cant complain

Your midfield edged it over for me

[mikey_LFC]

So here is why  I believe that my team will end up winning.  I will give you three reasons.

Goalscorers all over the Pitch

Lastador has Ronaldo who is an all time great and Kanoute was a pretty decent striker himself. However, his wingers don't contribute a lot when it comes to goals. There are also no genuine goal scoring threat in his midfield.

In contrast my team has plently of goals. Falcao is one of the best finishers of modern era, before his injuries he was scoring almost a goal a game in European football. Even afterwards he has scored at better than a goal every other game. Mane just won the golden boot in premier league and scores more goals than most CF's. Kalou likewise has scored more than 10 goals in 11 seasons over his career. Then I can rely on long-range shooting and powerful runs from Socrates to provide another attacking threat.

The variety and quantity of players that can put the ball in the back of the net will make it difficult for any team to focus on one player.

Midfield Balance

My midfield consists of three players. Kieta can play the role of ball-winner and can break forward if needed. Pizzaro can dictate the tempo from the deep. Socrates can make runs into the box or drop deeper to link up play between the attack and my double pivot.

In Lastador's team he is playing a two-man midfield. And even though Redondo is amazing, his midfield would struggle to cope with three midfielders on my team. Which could mean that Kanoute or Ronaldo would have to often drop deep into midfield which is not ideal. 


Wide play

Both my full backs possess pace and good work rate and are known for making over-lapping runs. Mane and Kalou typically cut in from wide position and operate more narrowly which allows the fullbacks to progress up the pitch.

Lastador's best full back(Lauren) is playing behind Cuadrado who also made his name as a right wing back and likes to stay wide. So its likely that Lauren and Cuadrado will end up running into each other's way a lot.

Ended up going for you for a lot of the same reasons as you bring up.

Disappointed I'm losing but Maradona and kaka in the front line is sexy so cant complain

That’s what edged it for me. Incredibly close calls though. Some very good sides, but all have their weaknesses too. Which makes the draft even better!

[Lastrador]

Echoing what the lads have said --- this is tight in Match #2


Max P                      Toss Up              Lastrador

GK                             LB                        RB
Wide Attackers                                   CB Pairing
Attack Mid                                         CM Pairing   
                                                        Striker * by a skosh

Probably should be a draw.   

Initially, my first thought is Lastrador in pens --- mostly because of his Steven Appiah/Redondo picks
But one could make the case that Socrates and wide attackers could run roughshod over many a defense.

N'Kono is a much better Keeper than Bravo (imo), and this could go either way.

This is so hard.

Not going to vote yet, as it would be an injustice.  I invite both Max and Lastra to make their case for victory.

Will not offer much analysis of the other match since I am in their group.

Well out SPS and Sheer!!!

I think you have it pretty much right on mate, except for the goalkeeper situation. While N'Kono is a legend of African football I don't he ever played at the level that Bravo has. Two times winner of the Copa with Chile, winning the golden globe on both competitions. Two ligas and two Copas del Rey with Barcelona, while having the less goals scored against in 2014–15 and being part of the liga's best 11 that year too. I think his recent spell with City has clouded people's mind about his real value, he truly was a world class goalkeeper, while I don't think N'Kono ever was.

My superiority in midfield, with Redondo and Appiah against Pizarro and Keita, means Socrates will have to get down to help them out, leaving him too far from his forwards and cutting his principal source of play making. That means his creativity will have to come from the wings as Falcao isn't known as a creative forward who could drop deep and help in this regard a la Bobby. In the wings Mane will come up against Lauren, one of the few fullbacks who could live with his raw pace and physicality. In the other side Kalou will come against my weak link Bokha, I can live with Max winning this battle as I don't rate Kalou very highly. In the middle of the defense I have one of the best center backs in the history of football in Santamaría and one half of the best defensive partnership in international football between the mid 90's and early 00's in Celso Ayala, who will shut down an excellent but isolated Falcao.

It is true that Max has more goals spread all over the pitch but I don't think that's a problem when you have the best and more lethal number 9 in the history of football (who can basically create on his own) and another excellent player in Kanoute, who was in my opinion one of the best passing and more unselfish strikers of his time (who thrived at playing with a more direct striker in Luis Fabiano), basically a perfect fit; And they are coming against a DM converted to CB in Obdulio Varela (as an Uruguayan this was the first thing that caught my eye) and a very good playmaking CB but not a true world class stopper in Rafa Marquez. The lack of a true DM in Max's side, who could slot in and help out, also doesn't help his case.

While it's true my wingers aren't prolific scorers I don't need them to be, they are world class dribblers, technically excellent, with great speed and delivery. Hadj will be especially dangerous cutting from the wing, having the rapid and skillful Bokha supporting him against an isolated Zabaleta. While Cuadrado will have to go against the underrated Kwawdo Asamoah with little support from Lauren who will be too busy with Mane. Still his dribbling and explosiveness coupled with excellent delivery means he can have some success. 

In short, I think Max team is excellent and it will be a very close battle, but superior partnerships in key positions (Santamaría-Ayala, Redondo-Appiah and Ronaldo-Kanoute) and an overall more solid side, means my team just edges it.

Edit: Besides, my team is much prettier with all those colors. 

[Crosby Nick]

First game was tough. ID say Sir Psycho has the edge in midfield but I’m easily led and was swayed by Sheer’s attackers.

Second game was also tight for me but just plumped for Lastrador.

Voted for both before I read any of the other comments so can’t easily use the excuse of being easily led.

[Lastrador]

First game was tough. ID say Sir Psycho has the edge in midfield but I’m easily led and was swayed by Sheer’s attackers.

Second game was also tight for me but just plumped for Lastrador.

Voted for both before I read any of the other comments so can’t easily use the excuse of being easily led.

You really like Papa Roach don’t you? 

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Some good points all the way around.

Agree with both Max and Lastra on most things -

First, I do think the way to evaluate a keeper is different than a typical player (the level is less of a concern for me, especially since African keepers (much the like black US football quaterbacks or head coaches in many sports) do not get the recognition they deserve due to some bias (either league, historical patterns or out/out lack of name recognition/racial preferences from Western clubs/media).

That said, I am not a Claudio Bravo expert either.  Small sample size of games for club(s) and country.

But I have seen, noticed and admired Thomas NKono for years.  For me there are four areas of the game to evaluate

Tactical
Technical
Psychological
Physical/Athleticism

He has amazing hands (punch, catch, hold) technically.  His diving, 1 v 1 play and instincts for the game are rare.  He seemed pretty composed in my past estimation and reading about him, was more of the same.  Composed, calm ready when you need him - no plays off.  Reminds me of someone

However, what makes him a cut above Bravo (imo) is his athleticism.  He got to everything around him (high, low, east, west, up/down, again, double-triple attempts).  The best keeper in Africa has got to be one of the best keepers in the world, or we really elevate our middle to good European keepers to the point of exaggeration (imo).

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/tgsdBOwgpWw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/tgsdBOwgpWw</a>


The midfield & CB pairings are what swayed me along with Nkono.  Ronaldo best player on the pitch, but the attacking combination potential of Max's top 4 is mouth watering.

Lastra got my vote in the end in the tightest battle I've voted on!

[Djozer]

Sheer Mag and Lastrador, but only just in each. Apologies to the guys I didn't vote for and had you caught me on a different day I might have voted the other way - ridiculously tight matchups, as I think all will be throughout the competition. Proper hard to judge teams like these, with two to three world class players and then some really good ones, a couple of journeymen, and then a couple of players most of us won't have heard of before last week who may or may not have been brilliant.

[Crosby Nick]

You really like Papa Roach don’t you? 

Haha God no!

[PoetryInMotion]

Disappointed I'm losing but Maradona and kaka in the front line is sexy so cant complain

In a way, it would've helped to take advantage of the opposition's defense if you had Forlan deeper (and not as the Central Striker like you have) and another strong ST ahead of him. Forlan was a more complete forward who would often come deep & impact his team more, take part in moves, so it would've helped to have another proper ST, & him behind. Forlan coming deep from ST position is not ideal imo. If you had sorted out your attack, you had other things going for you.

[Djozer]

In a way, it would've helped to take advantage of the opposition's defense if you had Forlan deeper (and not as the Central Striker like you have) and another strong ST ahead of him. Forlan was a more complete forward who would often come deep & impact his team more, take part in moves, so it would've helped to have another proper ST, & him behind. Forlan coming deep from ST position is not ideal imo. If you had sorted out your attack, you had other things going for you.

Aye, Sir Psycho has one of the strongest midfields in the draft, perhaps the strongest, and a pretty solid defence. Unfortunately attacks are often what people seem to look for in these competitions, or so it seems from my limited drafting experience anyway.

[Hazell]

Next set of fixtures up:

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=343143.new#new

[vivabobbygraham]

These are two examples of how tight these games are going to be. Took me ages. Just came down on Psycho side because of Essien and YaYa being able to handle Diego....just. Both defences would need cover and those two would provide it. Was a big fan of the two of them so that swayed it, personally but, as I said, really close.

Sadio and Socrates were tempting and Falcao was a great player but Ronaldo would strike fear into max' defence and the Ayala, Santamaria partnership would be resolute and a fit Redondo was a hell of a player to screen in front so Lastrador just shades it. Again, down to personal choice as Santamaria and Ronaldo are personal favourites.

[Max_powers]

The midfield & CB pairings are what swayed me along with Nkono. 

I hope people realize that he has Celso Ayala in as CB not Roberto. I have a lad that won 4 La Liga titles and 2 Champions leagues along with a world cup winning captain for my CB's.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Sorry for not putting up more details in regards to my choices lads, I've got my hands full with work over the weekend.