Author Topic: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent  (Read 340253 times)

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2840 on: April 12, 2012, 11:34:54 pm »
Cruijff will never become a DoF anywhere anymore.

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2841 on: April 12, 2012, 11:35:01 pm »
Not for me.

I'm a big fan of DoF's, but they fall into different categories. I think we need a Sporting Director. My perception may be way off here, but my perception of Cruyff is that his role is more a "Guardian of the philosophy" type role (to really make it sound dramatic), and that's fine. That's great really, because to Barcelona and Ajax he is a legend, arguably their best player and one of their best managers. If anyone knows what made those clubs successful in the past then it's Johan Cruyff.

He has no connection to Liverpool though. There's one living man that embodies all that Cruyff does for Ajax and Barcelona for Liverpool, and he's already the manager at the club. If you want the Director of Football to be that - if you want a figurehead, the personification of a clubs philosophy and identity then you can only choose Kenny Dalglish, and he's the current manager.

Cruyff doesn't do any of the football administration side, or the scouting I don't think. He'd be there to be guardian of a philosophy at a club where he has no connection.

By all means get a DoF, but get one who is essentially a Sporting Director, who has the same brief as Comolli had. Cruyff would seem as far removed from Comolli as you could imagine whilst having the same job title.
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Offline Stevie93

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2842 on: April 12, 2012, 11:35:35 pm »
He'd be the biggest name at the club. Would be huge.

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2843 on: April 12, 2012, 11:36:35 pm »
He'd be the biggest name at the club. Would be huge.

That's all he would be though. A big name.

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2844 on: April 12, 2012, 11:36:57 pm »
Why do we need a DOF ?  The majority of the world's biggest clubs manage without one

Actually, they don't. The majority of clubs outside of the UK have one. They help ensure a level of continuity regardless of a turnover in coaching and technical staff. If done properly, they can help bring in players according to a specific philosophy as part of a long-term vision, rather than having the costly short-term notion of new managers constantly needing to refresh the playing squad with players who fit their personal vision and taste

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2845 on: April 12, 2012, 11:37:06 pm »
That's all he would be though. A big name.

Which surely has its uses.

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2846 on: April 12, 2012, 11:37:13 pm »
Why do we need a DOF ?  The majority of the world's biggest clubs manage without one

No they don't.

Plenty of English clubs do, but when you're thinking of successful English clubs you're thinking of United and Arsenal, and Wenger and Ferguson have such power and influence in those clubs that they're virtual directors of footbal anyways.

Chelsea have had equivilent to a DOF and I think Brian Marwood holds the role at City in all but the name.
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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2847 on: April 12, 2012, 11:37:45 pm »
That's all he would be though. A big name.
No it isn't...not if he was 100% into it.....


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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2848 on: April 12, 2012, 11:38:18 pm »
From that article on the BBC site Txiki Begiristain would be my choice.
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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2849 on: April 12, 2012, 11:38:30 pm »
Why do we need a DOF ?  The majority of the world's biggest clubs manage without one, previous managers coped fine.  In my opinion all it does is clouds who has ultimate responsibility.
Most of the biggest teams in Europe all have an equivalent to the DOF.
Like Branca at Inter, or Zubizarreta at Barca

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2850 on: April 12, 2012, 11:39:03 pm »
Not for me.

True. He would be in essence a progressive figurehead, more an advisor than anything else who would most likely provide insight into technical and youth development. He's a football visionary more than a true Director of Football candidate.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 11:40:45 pm by rafathegaffa83 »

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2851 on: April 12, 2012, 11:40:20 pm »
Can't see it happening. More chance of Maradona being our DOF...... now that would be good, just to see him at Anfield taking pot shots with his air rifle at Bacon face when the Mancs play us.


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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2852 on: April 12, 2012, 11:42:39 pm »
From that article on the BBC site Txiki Begiristain would be my choice.

Same for me, going off the limited idea we all get of the all encompassing work that a DOF provides.

He held the position for possibly Barcelona's most successful period in history, which included two seperate managers, a huge overhaul of players and a clear philosophy that saw them bring through youngsters into their team. Whether that was by design on his part or luck I'm not sure, but his job description at Barcelona sounds far more akin to what Comolli was doing at Liverpool, rather that what Cryuff is doing at Ajax, which to me sounds a lot closer to what Pep Segura does at the club.
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Offline rob1408

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2853 on: April 12, 2012, 11:43:15 pm »
Most of the biggest teams in Europe all have an equivalent to the DOF.
Like Branca at Inter, or Zubizarreta at Barca

Fair enough, I didn't know about the one at Barca, the one at Inter seems to be working miracles.  I don't really understand the role that much, like I said it clouds responsibility and could only really work when there's 100% cohesion between coach and 'DOF'.  It seems like some sort of buffer between coach and board, in my unqualified opinion it all seems more trouble than it's worth.

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2854 on: April 12, 2012, 11:45:14 pm »
Sources close to Comolli indicated that he had been stunned by his sudden dismissal, having been informed by Henry and chairman Tom Werner late on Tuesday night. The Liverpool players were then told at a hastily arranged meeting at the Melwood training ground the next morning.

Clearly he did not left the club by mutual consent.

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2855 on: April 12, 2012, 11:46:02 pm »
Sources close to Comolli indicated that he had been stunned by his sudden dismissal, having been informed by Henry and chairman Tom Werner late on Tuesday night. The Liverpool players were then told at a hastily arranged meeting at the Melwood training ground the next morning.

Clearly he did not left the club by mutual consent.

 :butt
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2856 on: April 12, 2012, 11:46:16 pm »
Sources close to Comolli indicated that he had been stunned by his sudden dismissal, having been informed by Henry and chairman Tom Werner late on Tuesday night. The Liverpool players were then told at a hastily arranged meeting at the Melwood training ground the next morning.

Clearly he did not left the club by mutual consent.
Nonsense.... Are you suggesting the press release want correct?


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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2857 on: April 12, 2012, 11:46:27 pm »
Clearly he did not left the club by mutual consent.

That has been established i think.

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2858 on: April 12, 2012, 11:46:36 pm »
Fair enough, I didn't know about the one at Barca, the one at Inter seems to be working miracles.  I don't really understand the role that much, like I said it clouds responsibility and could only really work when there's 100% cohesion between coach and 'DOF'.  It seems like some sort of buffer between coach and board, in my unqualified opinion it all seems more trouble than it's worth.
A DOF is a very valid role. A football coach should no way be dealing with things such as negotiating prices or scouting players. It's too much work and responsibility.

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2859 on: April 12, 2012, 11:48:00 pm »
No doubting whatsoever that Cruyffs a legend. However, its my understanding that he's also something of a total a-hole whose more or less destroyed the famous Ajax system on ego alone.

Now I get that from a Canadian guy whose heavily involved in youth soccer in Canada, who gets it from people in and around Winter and De Clerk, (Toronto head and associate coaches) who the story goes couldn't bail out of Ajax fast enough when TFC came calling, based on Cruyff, his head games, and the poor future prospects of the club, which they blame on Johann. Therefore, he is not suitable for purpose.

Hey! im an ITK. Waaahaoo. With a source! I was right there on the train when this was discussed just last week!     This may never happen again.  Anytime you guys need reliable fourth hand info on Dutch management teams from canadian sources, i  know a guy who knows a guy.  :) Pm me. My people will twitter your people.
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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2860 on: April 12, 2012, 11:49:48 pm »
I've no idea how it would work out to be honest.

Can anyone tell me why we need one?

Our greatest achievements were overseen by fantastic managers, players and fans with the backing of the board, why the necessity for a DOF?

Yep

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2861 on: April 12, 2012, 11:50:40 pm »
Not for me.

I'm a big fan of DoF's, but they fall into different categories. I think we need a Sporting Director. My perception may be way off here, but my perception of Cruyff is that his role is more a "Guardian of the philosophy" type role (to really make it sound dramatic), and that's fine. That's great really, because to Barcelona and Ajax he is a legend, arguably their best player and one of their best managers. If anyone knows what made those clubs successful in the past then it's Johan Cruyff.

He has no connection to Liverpool though. There's one living man that embodies all that Cruyff does for Ajax and Barcelona for Liverpool, and he's already the manager at the club. If you want the Director of Football to be that - if you want a figurehead, the personification of a clubs philosophy and identity then you can only choose Kenny Dalglish, and he's the current manager.

Cruyff doesn't do any of the football administration side, or the scouting I don't think. He'd be there to be guardian of a philosophy at a club where he has no connection.

By all means get a DoF, but get one who is essentially a Sporting Director, who has the same brief as Comolli had. Cruyff would seem as far removed from Comolli as you could imagine whilst having the same job title.

Agree. If that's the type DoF we want, Kenny is the man. If we want Comolli's replacement, Cruyff is the wrong man.

So for now, a Sporting Director and then, when Kenny decides to call it a day, we have our DoF.

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2862 on: April 12, 2012, 11:51:31 pm »
Cruyff the player was a legend. Cruyff the manager was a legend. (See my signature from day 1). Cruyff the man is a pr1ck. As few have eluded to his ego issue, if that can be kept in check, fine, otherwise, please no!
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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2863 on: April 12, 2012, 11:51:55 pm »
True. He would be in essence a progressive figurehead, more an advisor than anything else who would most likely provide insight into technical and youth development. He's a football visionary more than a true Director of Football candidate.
sorry if I may be being dumb here... but isnt that what you want from a Director of Football strategy???

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2864 on: April 12, 2012, 11:51:57 pm »
Cruyff?

Naa. He doesn't like shit on a stick.  ;)

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2865 on: April 12, 2012, 11:53:36 pm »
Would prefer that Cheeky chappy over Cruyff. Sounds more suited to what the role actually is. Plus I think there's only room for one football legend in a high position at the club, and that's Kenny.

If we're not bringing in a CEO, we need a DoF to do the day-to-day operations Comolli did. Would Cruyff fit that bill?

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2866 on: April 12, 2012, 11:55:31 pm »
Most of the biggest teams in Europe all have an equivalent to the DOF.
Like Branca at Inter, or Zubizarreta at Barca

But Cryuff is bigger.

Pros & Cons lads?
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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2867 on: April 12, 2012, 11:56:35 pm »
I've been out all day. Coaches/Physios going? Cryuff?

What on earth has happened since 10am? Anyone who can give me a round up of what has happened, I would appreciate it loads.

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2868 on: April 13, 2012, 12:00:06 am »
But Cryuff is bigger.

Pros & Cons lads?
The pros are many - he's a winner, both as a player and a manager. People like him can be counted on one hand. Great connections at two of the best youth systems in the world (Ajax and Barca). Integral part of Total Football history (pass and move will fit in well).

The cons... one - his ego is bigger than Earth. Keeps the Pros in the balance...

I'm on the proverbial fence and by looking at other posts, it's crowded in here on top of it...
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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2869 on: April 13, 2012, 12:00:09 am »
It's clear FSG are going to press ahead with a DOF, as they believe it's the right approach for a club of Liverpool's size.

I'm sure they'll be prepared to pay top dollar to get the very best, something Comolli could never claim to be.

They need to nail this appointment, but I wasn't a fan of Comolli and see this as a positive step forward.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 12:02:43 am by Carlito Roberto »

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2870 on: April 13, 2012, 12:00:11 am »
Reopened to allow people to post speculation that Cruyff is a target.

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2871 on: April 13, 2012, 12:02:18 am »
From that article on the BBC site Txiki Begiristain would be my choice.

You made that name up surely?
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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2872 on: April 13, 2012, 12:04:10 am »
Same for me, going off the limited idea we all get of the all encompassing work that a DOF provides.

He held the position for possibly Barcelona's most successful period in history, which included two seperate managers, a huge overhaul of players and a clear philosophy that saw them bring through youngsters into their team. Whether that was by design on his part or luck I'm not sure, but his job description at Barcelona sounds far more akin to what Comolli was doing at Liverpool, rather that what Cryuff is doing at Ajax, which to me sounds a lot closer to what Pep Segura does at the club.

Exactly, and that's why Txiki is a dream candidate, to my mind.  Barca were going through a rough patch, brought in Laporta as president and Begiristain to do the deals, and he oversaw them bringing in Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Alves ... basically, the players that brought them right back up to the top.  Think he is the perfect candidate if we're looking for someone to come and do the same for us.
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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2873 on: April 13, 2012, 12:04:31 am »
Sources close to Comolli indicated that he had been stunned by his sudden dismissal, having been informed by Henry and chairman Tom Werner late on Tuesday night. The Liverpool players were then told at a hastily arranged meeting at the Melwood training ground the next morning.

Clearly he did not left the club by mutual consent.

Do you understand what mutual consent actually means?
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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2874 on: April 13, 2012, 12:04:56 am »
I've been out all day. Coaches/Physios going? Cryuff?

What on earth has happened since 10am? Anyone who can give me a round up of what has happened, I would appreciate it loads.


in short, comolli got sacked as he wasnt doing his job well enough, bruckner much the same i think, werner said there will be a new DoF and that they have full confidence in kenny,
there seems to be talk of cryuff for this role, apparently van gaal has said he is interested if approached,

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2875 on: April 13, 2012, 12:05:16 am »
sorry if I may be being dumb here... but isnt that what you want from a Director of Football strategy???

Quote
"It covers pretty much all of the football side," added Comolli. "It's basically a day-to-day relationship with the manager and his coaching staff, it's also medical and sports science, performance analysis, player liaison, team travel, scouting and negotiating transfer contracts. A big part of it is the academy."

That's how Comolli described the role he's just left.

Quote
As I said, it's being involved in everything which is related to football, whether it's here at Chapel Street or at the training ground at Melwood or at Kirkby. Having a daily involvement with Roy - we've been talking on a daily basis, sometimes having small meetings twice a day or three times a day - obviously working with the sports science team and the doctor, working with the video analysts, working with the academy, working with the scouts, that's the area I will cover.

So your role covers a wide basis then...

Yes it is, because that's what football clubs are now. It's massive. You wake up in the morning and you get an email from a scout who has been somewhere in South America or someone else and he's sending you a report saying 'I really like this player'. It's definitely 24/7.

That's what he had to say of his old role as Director of Football Strategy.

Both roles see far more wide ranging than determining how the club should play and develop their players. A lot of Comolli's job appeared to be angled towards scouting (at a young age and upwards) and expanding the scouting network. I'm not sure where Cruyff could help there as I don't think he has any connections to any scouts. Similarly Comolli had a law degree and I'm pretty sure he was responsible for drawing up contracts, renegotiating contracts, the first team wage bill, the reserves wage bill etc.

Again, all that seems far out of line with anything Cruyff (or arguably Van Gaal) would provide. At Ajax his job seems to be to ensure they stay true to their philosophy of developing players, and revamping it if needs be.

We've already got someone who does a job very similar to that at the club. Pep Segura is the technical director at the academy who designs the clubs training regimes from the U8s upwards, unless I've missed something. He's the one who ensures all our youngsters play to a certain system and all that jazz.

Both of Comolli's roles (if they were every any different) seem far more in line with what the likes of Branca, Monchi, Corvino etc are responsible for at their respective clubs, rather than being the figurehead for how the teams should play. There seems to be far more 'football administration' in Comolli's job than is involved in Cruyff's.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 01:10:37 am by Juan Loco »
"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

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Online Alan_X

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2876 on: April 13, 2012, 12:08:52 am »

in short, comolli got sacked as he wasnt doing his job well enough, bruckner much the same i think, werner said there will be a new DoF and that they have full confidence in kenny,
there seems to be talk of cryuff for this role, apparently van gaal has said he is interested if approached,

Bruckner is completely different by all accounts. The job he's done is good and the person he put in place is moving up to take over. Comolli as gone. Bruckner is leaving at the end of the season.
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09/03/2011 08:04
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Offline .Mike

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Re: Cruyff for DOF anyone?
« Reply #2877 on: April 13, 2012, 12:09:44 am »
in short, comolli got sacked as he wasnt doing his job well enough, bruckner much the same i think, werner said there will be a new DoF and that they have full confidence in kenny,
there seems to be talk of cryuff for this role, apparently van gaal has said he is interested if approached,
I knew the Comolli news, didn't know about Bruckner. The PR team has had a revamp too hasn't it?

+ also will there be a CEO? I know David Dein has been spotted at the last two home games.

Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2878 on: April 13, 2012, 12:10:34 am »
first in, first out.

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent
« Reply #2879 on: April 13, 2012, 12:12:14 am »
Exactly, and that's why Txiki is a dream candidate, to my mind.  Barca were going through a rough patch, brought in Laporta as president and Begiristain to do the deals, and he oversaw them bringing in Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Alves ... basically, the players that brought them right back up to the top.  Think he is the perfect candidate if we're looking for someone to come and do the same for us.

To be fair though, it would be hypocritical of me not to mention it, because I love to point out just how fucking wasteful and bankrolled Barcelona are, Bergiristain would've been responsible for Hleb, Ibrahimovic, Henrique, Keirrison, Zambrotta, Quaresma, Caceras, Chygrynskiy et al. That's a lot of money wasted that Barcelona could afford to get away with. Although except for Quaresma and Zambrotta, I think all might have been Guardiola's targets? Either way. It's a lot of money up the wall, but you can't argue with the appointments made during that time, nor the timing of them as royhendo's quote from Graham Hunter's book points out. There's also plenty of quality signings in the same time as well. And fuck me they were successful.
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