Topic: General political discussion Part II

[classycarra]

I so hope Jess Philips loses the trigger ballots tomorrow sadly I think she won't to many people fall for her phony bullshit.

For me it would just take being reminded of one of her Tweets she did let alone all the me me me bullshit she does in the Murdoch press.

Taking the piss out of all the people that campaign for her for free and door knock for her in all weathers.

She is a c*nt.

She really does trigger hate in Corbynfans doesn't she?

That's a properly weird tweet to call her a c*nt for. Ironic that you call her that quoting a tweet where she's appealing for mutual respect from an ostensible labour supporter.

[Jiminy Cricket]

As much I despise Corbyn, this is a desperate situation and it calls for desperate solution. I think the LibDems should state that they will vote in favour of Corbyn to be PM to lead a GoNU, but with the understanding that if he fails to get enough votes, he will back an alternative candidate (with genuine cross-party support). Further, the LibDems should also state that they accept that the alternative could well be another Labour MP.

Unfortunately, I doubt this will work. I am 99.9% certain that Corbyn relishes a No-Deal Breixit, just so long as he can reasonably pin the blame on someone else. Still, I think we (and the LibDems) should attempt to expose him for what he is.


PS @Trada Get a grip, mate.

[BrandoLFC]

No, am sure the opposite is true. many younger people new to politics believed Corbyns popularity would grow bigger and he would sweep to power.  older people who had refused to vote Labour joined the party as Corbyn held similar views, it wasn't all about wining a GE, it was also about running the Labour party they way they want it. taking control. they have achieved this so Corbyn is not a failure in their eyes.
Corbyn will not stand down, he has a chance of becoming PM. he has faced harsh criticism all his life, water off a ducks back.
Would a better MP give Labour more of a chance of winning a GE.
Back to my first point, no MP would stand a chance no matter how good they are.
If it came to a head to head debate then Corbyn would be cheered and clapped no matter what he said. the last leadership debates between Smith +Corbyn are still on you tube, have a look if you have time.see who made the best arguments on Brexit etc.

This is my point.  You have a historically unpopular party leader from what I can tell.  Why wouldn't a Labour leader that the general populace is at least is indifferent about not lead to a probable GE win?  Right now the Tories are projected to win but not a majority.  Isn't that just a massive failure of the opposition that a morally bankrupt and corrupt party is probably going to not suffer in the polls for it?  But yet the Labour party is fine with where they are at?  Might be time for both parties to go away then as that's ridiculous.

[Sangria]

This is my point.  You have a historically unpopular party leader from what I can tell.  Why wouldn't a Labour leader that the general populace is at least is indifferent about not lead to a probable GE win?  Right now the Tories are projected to win but not a majority.  Isn't that just a massive failure of the opposition that a morally bankrupt and corrupt party is probably going to not suffer in the polls for it?  But yet the Labour party is fine with where they are at?  Might be time for both parties to go away then as that's ridiculous.

The people currently in control of the Labour party are less concerned with government of the country than they are with cementing their control of the Labour party so the party will never be controlled by centrists again. See the continuing efforts to expel centrists who aren't wholehearted enough in their deference to Corbyn and his cabal.

[BrandoLFC]

The people currently in control of the Labour party are less concerned with government of the country than they are with cementing their control of the Labour party so the party will never be controlled by centrists again. See the continuing efforts to expel centrists who aren't wholehearted enough in their deference to Corbyn and his cabal.

I'm not aware of most of this.  I just was reading something about potential and expected Brexit impacts vis-a-vis the PL and LFC in particular and there's no silver lining.  So how can this be avoided?  By a party that doesn't want Brexit to win right?  I don't understand how there isn't a strong opposition party to this and it seems to me there isn't as the main opposition leader is just as hated as the former and current PM.  Maybe I should look into this more even though I'll never have a vote for it?  But for now I could fashion almost every response as Corbyn hates the UK as there's almost no imperceptible difference.

[Zeb]

Think of it more as ambivalence towards EU membership which dates back 40 years to joining in the first place. The membership of Labour are overwhelmingly in favour of either membership or leaving on the softest of possible terms (single market + customs union) whereas the leadership is currently people who've spent those 40 years voting against the EU.

Changing leader would help Labour a lot. It's probably the single most effective way for them to change their political fortunes before heading into an election. It's also not happening because the current membership of the party has projected a lot onto an elderly protest marcher and don't seem to yet recognise the failure of 'the project'. "Is it the voters who are wrong or is it me? It's the voters" kind of analysis.

So it's the third parties who are hoovering up voters who are opposed to Brexit. Liberal Democrats and nationalists. With our system of voting we have to look something like a century back to see a similar sort of election should current polling be accurate and voters not shift back to red team vs blue team binary choices. Last time it happened, it was the Liberals who played Labour's part. Labour headed into government and replaced them as one of the big two. Voters can cause big shifts if they're not feeling represented... On a smaller scale, Scotland used to be very, very Labour. Currently, it's primarily represented by the Scottish National Party.

[BrandoLFC]

Think of it more as ambivalence towards EU membership which dates back 40 years to joining in the first place. The membership of Labour are overwhelmingly in favour of either membership or leaving on the softest of possible terms (single market + customs union) whereas the leadership is currently people who've spent those 40 years voting against the EU.

Changing leader would help Labour a lot. It's probably the single most effective way for them to change their political fortunes before heading into an election. It's also not happening because the current membership of the party has projected a lot onto an elderly protest marcher and don't seem to yet recognise the failure of 'the project'. "Is it the voters who are wrong or is it me? It's the voters" kind of analysis.

So it's the third parties who are hoovering up voters who are opposed to Brexit. Liberal Democrats and nationalists. With our system of voting we have to look something like a century back to see a similar sort of election should current polling be accurate and voters not shift back to red team vs blue team binary choices. Last time it happened, it was the Liberals who played Labour's part. Labour headed into government and replaced them as one of the big two. Voters can cause big shifts if they're not feeling represented... On a smaller scale, Scotland used to be very, very Labour. Currently, it's primarily represented by the Scottish National Party.

Which again gets me back to the "worst Labour leader" in a century or more talk.  If you love the country how can you not realize you're going to make things worse for the people you want to help if you stay in charge?  For Trump everybody knows he loves himself more than the country, same with Johnson I would assume?  What is Corbyn's excuse?

[Alan_X]

Corbyn's popularity doesn't matter as much in the UK as it would in a presidential election in the US, though. The US president is elected by the people, while in the UK people vote for their local MPs. Corbyn's popularity obviously impacts those votes to an extent, but as long as enough Labour MPs are elected, Corbyn, as party leader, can become PM regardless of how unpopular he is. He could even become PM in a coalition government despite other parties having massive reservations about him - again, as Labour leader, they can't form a government without him. Here's a sensible non-Corbynite voice in the Observer today arguing much the same:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/06/only-one-route-out-of-brexit-maze-jeremy-corbyn-must-lead-way

That Hutton piece highlights why Corbyn's stance on Brexit has been such a disaster and also why the whole 'referendum first but don't commit to Remain' is bullshit.

Hutton is spot on that an election won't solve the issue - but an election first is exactly what Corbyn's Labour have been arguing for for years. And he's spot on that no-deal is disastrous, but also spot on that any Brexit is worse for the country than staying in- another issue where Corbyn's stance was consistently against the national interest and against the interests of ordinary people.   

He highlights the anti-semitism and any number of reasons why Corbyn and his chums are unfit for the job. His only reason for saying it has to be Corbyn is that Corbyn is the prick holding the pencil at this particular moment.

That's not an argument for Corbyn to lead. It's an argument for Corbyn to do the decent thing and stand aside for a unifying figure who can unite the opposition parties to prevent no-deal, campaign for a referendum and then allow Labour Party to campaign in the referendum on a clear Remain position.

[Zeb]

Which again gets me back to the "worst Labour leader" in a century or more talk.  If you love the country how can you not realize you're going to make things worse for the people you want to help if you stay in charge?  For Trump everybody knows he loves himself more than the country, same with Johnson I would assume?  What is Corbyn's excuse?

Need to mode shift from political cost/benefit analysis to that performed by the hard left. I always find it more a religious mode of thinking than anything else, but I appreciate how some would think the comparison pejorative.

To give you an idea of the thinking, prior to election day in 2017 Corbyn's top advisors met to discuss their response to different outcomes. They concluded that Labour being on the receiving end of a Tory landslide would probably mean Corbyn would have to resign. Any other scenario? Carry on plugging away - long march to victory, Tories will (eventually) self-combust handing Corbyn's Labour victory, if 'the project' fails now then the hard left won't get another chance of running the Labour party when only they have the *true* answers to people's problems.

So starting point is pretty different if you believe that only a 'Corbyn-led Labour party' offers answers to the *real* problems  (ie not Brexit) facing the country.

[So… Howard Philips]

She really does trigger hate in Corbynfans doesn't she?

That's a properly weird tweet to call her a c*nt for. Ironic that you call her that quoting a tweet where she's appealing for mutual respect from an ostensible labour supporter.

Is there an official list of MPs the Corbyn supporters hate or is it just made up as they go along?

[filopastry]

That Hutton piece highlights why Corbyn's stance on Brexit has been such a disaster and also why the whole 'referendum first but don't commit to Remain' is bullshit.

Hutton is spot on that an election won't solve the issue - but an election first is exactly what Corbyn's Labour have been arguing for for years. And he's spot on that no-deal is disastrous, but also spot on that any Brexit is worse for the country than staying in- another issue where Corbyn's stance was consistently against the national interest and against the interests of ordinary people.   

He highlights the anti-semitism and any number of reasons why Corbyn and his chums are unfit for the job. His only reason for saying it has to be Corbyn is that Corbyn is the prick holding the pencil at this particular moment.

That's not an argument for Corbyn to lead. It's an argument for Corbyn to do the decent thing and stand aside for a unifying figure who can unite the opposition parties to prevent no-deal, campaign for a referendum and then allow Labour Party to campaign in the referendum on a clear Remain position.

Certainly it seems to me that what Labour are proposing (and seemingly the only option they are willing to countenance) isn't a GoNU at all, it is a Labour minority govt.

On a separate note, there is an interesting piece on the prospects for a 2017 style Labour recovery in the polls, although I would like to see them talk a bit more about the wildly varying polling being produced by various providers because false recall is clearly on part of the story there (yesterday's Survation numbers seem to be based on a sample that is very Brexiter heavy)

https://publicpolicypast.blogspot.com/2019/10/can-labour-surge-again.html

[Sangria]

Is there an official list of MPs the Corbyn supporters hate or is it just made up as they go along?

There was a shit list compiled after the 2015 leadership election with MPs divided into categories of trustworthiness. 1 was friends of Corbyn, 2 was on the fence, not to be trusted, 3 was enemies of Corbyn. Jess Philips was in 1. Jo Cox was in 3 (IIRC). Most of the heavyweights were in 3.

[KillieRed]

She really does trigger hate in Corbynfans doesn't she?

That's a properly weird tweet to call her a c*nt for. Ironic that you call her that quoting a tweet where she's appealing for mutual respect from an ostensible labour supporter.

It`s weird.

Why am i reminded of the Stalin-Trotsky schism?

Surrounded on all sides by enemies, needing as many friends as possible under our democratic system, the Corbynistas prefer to hide from reality and look for enemies in their own party. I`ve said it before, and I`ll say it again; how does Labour expect to win an election when it (the leadership and their cronies) go out of their way to alienate allies? They don`t have the numbers.

[killer-heels]

I hate that Piers Moron show but Boris’ bit on the side had an ‘interesting’ interview this morning on there which increases the pressure on the baffoon .

[filopastry]

From Robert Peston on twitter.

So believe it or not, the 21 Tory MPs expelled from the parliamentary Conservative party, plus Rudd who quit, today refused to support opposition MPs who wanted to put down an SO24 motion that would have allowed MPs to seize control of parliament’s business on any day between now and Brexit day on 31 October.

Labour and SNP had ordered all their MPs to London to support the motion. But now it won’t be put on the order paper till next Tuesday, if at all.

The point of the motion was to give MPs the power to pass whatever legislation they thought they need to stop a no-deal Brexit on 31 October. But the Tory rebels apparently now buy the Johnson and Cummings argument that MPs flexing their collective muscles to stop a no-deal Brexit is undermining their chances of getting a deal. But as I reported earlier, there is next to no chance of the EU accepting Johnson’s offer anyway (see https://itv.com/news/2019-10-07/johnson-s-brexit-offer-contains-too-much-uncertainty-writes-robert-peston/).

So Cummings and Johnson will be chortling into their coffees as we speak. And business in the Commons today will be of magnificent unimportance.

And these are the people Labour is apparently confident will support Corbyn for PM ....

[TepidT2O]

I so hope Jess Philips loses the trigger ballots tomorrow sadly I think she won't to many people fall for her phony bullshit.

For me it would just take being reminded of one of her Tweets she did let alone all the me me me bullshit she does in the Murdoch press.

Taking the piss out of all the people that campaign for her for free and door knock for her in all weathers.

She is a c*nt.

She’s a hugely impressive person.

I don’t agree with everything she says, but the tremendous difference she has made to the lives of women who have suffered from abuse and violence is remarkable.

For that alone you should be applauding her.

MPs generally want the job to make a difference. She hasn’t just talked the talk, she’s walked the walk. That you haven’t noticed this does you a discredit.

[oldfordie]

This is my point.  You have a historically unpopular party leader from what I can tell.  Why wouldn't a Labour leader that the general populace is at least is indifferent about not lead to a probable GE win?  Right now the Tories are projected to win but not a majority.  Isn't that just a massive failure of the opposition that a morally bankrupt and corrupt party is probably going to not suffer in the polls for it?  But yet the Labour party is fine with where they are at?  Might be time for both parties to go away then as that's ridiculous.

I very much doubt Labour MPs are happy, they tried to get rid of Corbyn in 2016, the membership voted to keep Corbyn as leader. a few MPs walked away from the Labour party to try and form their own party when public support demanded a new party. the public deserted them.
The article below is worth reading if you want to understand how a MP who spent the previous 30yrs sitting on the backbenches in oblivion took full control over the Labour party.
https://www.businessinsider.com/momentum-the-inside-story-of-how-jeremy-corbyn-took-control-of-the-labour-party-2016-2?r=UK

[filopastry]

I very much doubt Labour MPs are happy, they tried to get rid of Corbyn in 2016, the membership voted to keep Corbyn as leader. a few MPs walked away from the Labour party to try and form their own party when public support demanded a new party. the public deserted them.
The article below is worth reading if you want to understand how a MP who spent the previous 30yrs sitting on the backbenches in oblivion took full control over the Labour party.
https://www.businessinsider.com/momentum-the-inside-story-of-how-jeremy-corbyn-took-control-of-the-labour-party-2016-2?r=UK

Change may have stood a chance but the messaging/branding etc. was ridiculously amateurish and there was a certain amount of bad luck that the LD revival started shortly afterwards

[filopastry]

Stephen Hepburn MP (LAB, Jarrow) has been suspended from the Labour party following sexual harassment allegations.

The 2 main parties have absolutely haemorraged MPs during this Parliament.

[sms1986]

The 2 main parties have absolutely haemorraged MPs during this Parliament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Commons_of_the_United_Kingdom#Current_composition shows all the changes in a table.

[oldfordie]

Change may have stood a chance but the messaging/branding etc. was ridiculously amateurish and there was a certain amount of bad luck that the LD revival started shortly afterwards

I was willing to give them a break as something more important was at stake. it's what they stood for that mattered. if the public who demanded this new party had got behind them then other MPS would have followed and they could then start to challenge the 2 party system that's let this country down so badly over the last few yrs. we all know the score, most of us only have 2 real choices Tory or Labour. if the Tories are awful then you have no option but to vote Labour to kick them out. well that's the theory anyway.

[Trada]

Its strange when they have been following the Thomas Cook workers saying things like some have had to go to food banks already and they hate signing on because its like begging for money.

I bet it's something that never even crossed their minds about the people whos had to do it all around them and I bet a lot voted Tory and now they have to face the realities of what a Tory government really means.

And nothing should be taken for granted and one day you or someone in your family may have to full back on the services that have been cut by the Tories.

[filopastry]

@BMG_Research poll for @Independent, 1-4 Oct

Con 31% ±0
Lab 26% -1
Lib Dem 20% +1
Brexit 11% -2
Green 7% +1
Online survey of 1,514 GB adults; changes since 3-6 Sep

[Alan_X]

...I bet a lot voted Tory and now they have to face the realities of what a Tory government really means...

Solidarity with the workers eh?

Seriously mate you need to wind your neck in. "Jess Phillips is a c*nt..."  "Thomas Cook workers are probably Tories..."

[BrandoLFC]

So the long and short answer seems to be Corbyn's a wannabe dictator that wants to purge the party of any dissent but is fine with friends even if they are anti-semetics?

[classycarra]

Solidarity with the workers eh?

Seriously mate you need to wind your neck in. "Jess Phillips is a c*nt..."  "Thomas Cook workers are probably Tories..."

So much hatred and spite.

Their crimes? A) Not staying silent while a labour supporter makes things up and treats them disrespectfully. And B) being laid off and talking about it on the news.

Distinct lack of empathy in these recent thoughts.

[Trada]

Tories seems to think Food Banks are part of the welfare system now in a properly run welfare system there should be hardly any use for them.

Tory DWP chief welcomes move to offer food bank vouchers to ex-Thomas Cook staff

Therese Coffey said she welcomes 'the support that's given to help people in this difficult time' as she spoke out on the collapse in the Commons

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-dwp-chief-welcomes-move-20531725?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

[classycarra]

Tories seems to think Food Banks are part of the welfare system now in a properly run welfare system there should be hardly any use for them.

Tory DWP chief welcomes move to offer food bank vouchers to ex-Thomas Cook staff

Therese Coffey said she welcomes 'the support that's given to help people in this difficult time' as she spoke out on the collapse in the Commons

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-dwp-chief-welcomes-move-20531725?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

As loathe as I am to want to defend the government, your lack of interest in truth makes it difficult not to comment.

You've posted an article where they are on record trying to get people to get started on their claims ASAP so that the welfare system can work. If people don't identify themselves then the welfare system will obviously struggle to pick them up. In the quotes you've posted they're actually trying to make sure these recently laid off people don't need food banks because they are receiving support, and you've dramatically twisted it to say they are saying the newly laid off people should use food banks instead of access the welfare state.

"It is important and we've seen that with Thomas Cook ex-employees that they have got [a] Universal [Credit] claim - or some of them have - quickly so they can get the support that they need.

"I welcome, actually, the support that's given through the Trussell Trust in order to help people in this difficult time.

"But as soon as we can encourage people to come into the Jobcentre Plus and start claiming Universal Credit the sooner we can help."

[JackBauer]

Its strange when they have been following the Thomas Cook workers saying things like some have had to go to food banks already and they hate signing on because its like begging for money.

I bet it's something that never even crossed their minds about the people whos had to do it all around them and I bet a lot voted Tory and now they have to face the realities of what a Tory government really means.

And nothing should be taken for granted and one day you or someone in your family may have to full back on the services that have been cut by the Tories.

How is it the fault of the Tories that Thomas Cook collapsed under the weight of its own unsustainable debt?

[ShakaHislop]

Labour plunged into race row after Sikh candidate suspended hours before crunch meeting

Labour has been plunged into a race row after a frontrunner to become the candidate in a safe seat was suspended just hours before a crunch selection meeting.

Party bosses were accused of a "political stitch-up" after disciplinary action was taken against Jas Athwal.

Mr Athwal, the leader of Redbridge Council, had been seen as the favourite to win the nomination to stand for Labour in Ilford South at the next general election.

It is understood that a sexual harassment complaint was made about him nearly two months ago, but no action was taken until just after 6pm on Friday.

His suspension meant he was banned from taking part in a hustings event due to take place on Saturday morning.

Sources said his removal from the race meant that rival candidate Sam Tarry, an ally of Jeremy Corbyn, was now the favourite to claim the nomination.

Councillor Athwal's supporters said the selection process should have been postponed until the disciplinary process is fully complete.

In a statement, the Sikhs for Labour group said: "Does Labour still have a space for Sikhs?"

And the Black and Minority Ethnic group of Labour MPs said: "We are very concerned that as a candidate in the Ilford South selections he was placed on administrative suspension at 18.06pm the day before the selection meeting.

"The partry were aware of the complaint against Jas many months ago and despite that decided to allow the selection process to continue. We request the Labour party to suspend the process until Jas has had an opportunity to respond to the complaint."

At the selection meeting, Kat Fletcher, Labour's deputy director in London, said Mr Corbyn "would like to ensure members have the opportunity to fully participate in the democratic process".

The meeting then agreed to reopen applications for the seat to allow other candidates to throw their names into the ring.

In a statement, Mr Athwal said: "Untrue allegations were made against me on 13 August. I responded in detail to the Labour Party on 20th August, with supporting evidence including witness statements, proving the allegations were untrue. No reply was received from the Labour Party.

"Nothing was heard until late yesterday, my solicitor was emailed at 11 pm, advising that I was suspended from the Labour Party.

"This is not a fair process. It is contrary to natural justice. All I seek is a fair hearing and due process.

"The Labour Party has had every opportunity to deal with this matter properly and fairly in the past seven weeks and chose only to act late yesterday by suspending me when I have no time to challenge that decision. This is why people are so upset."

Wes Streeting, the Labour MP for neighbouring Ilford North, said: "The Labour Party must suspend the selection process in Ilford South immediately. Proceeding under these circumstances will only confirm for many our suspicion that the suspension of the local frontrunner, councillor as Athwal, just 15 hours before the vote is politically-motivated and biased in order to stitch up the selection.

"While it is right for the Labour party to take all complaints seriously, the selection process must be suspended until this matter is fully investigated and resolved so that every candidate is given a fair chance and every member of Ilford South Labour Party is given a real choice.

"Many of us have been calling for an independent complaints procedure for some time because of our fears that the process can be manipulated for political reasons.

"Suspending the leader of Redbridge Council on the eve of a selection on the basis of a complaint that the Labour party has sat on for months underlines our concerns."

A supporter of Mr Athwal said: "They are doing to Jas Athwal what they tried to do to Tom Watson at Labour conference. If they cannot win fair and square they seek to remove their opposition."

But a source close to the Labour leadership said: "Anyone claiming this is a stitch up is dismissing extremely serious allegations against this individual.

"This decision was taken by a panel following a report from an independent investigator from an a specialist organisation. The case was anonymised so the panel did not know who the individual was.

"The timing has nothing to do with the selection process. Yesterday was the earliest opportunity for the case to be reviewed following the independent investigator’s report."

A Labour spokesperson said: "National executive committee officers have decided to reopen the applications to allow for other candidates to put their names forward.

"The meeting has supported this course of action."

Following the meeting, Sam Tarry tweeted: "I am gutted that the selection process in Ilford South has been suspended today, but it's absolutely the right thing to do.

"I am proud to have run a positive, people-powered campaign with hundreds of local supporters. I look forward to winning the vote when it comes back."

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/107054/labour-plunged-race-row-after-sikh-candidate

[ShakaHislop]

Labour candidate in key general election seat suspended by the party

A Labour candidate in a key election battleground has been suspended by the party.

Steven Saxby had been expected to stand in the Tory-held Cities of London and Westminster.

Conservative MP Mark Field has held the seat since 2001, and retained it at the 2017 election after seeing off the challenge of Labour's İbrahim Doğuş with a majority of 3,148.

It is also being heavily targeted by the Lib Dems, whose candidate at the next election will be former Labour MP Chuka Umunna.

The decision to suspend Mr Saxby was taken by Labour officials on Friday night and is thought to related to an accusation of sexual harassment.

In a statement, Mr Saxby told LabourList: "A complaint has been made against me, which I strongly refute. I believe all complaints must be investigated properly.

"I am hoping for a speedy outcome of the complaint process and for the suspension from the Labour party to be lifted as soon as possible so that I can get back to campaigning."

A Labour spokesperson said: "The Labour party takes all complaints extremely seriously, which are investigated and any appropriate disciplinary action taken in line with the party’s rules and procedures. We can’t comment on individual cases."

It is understood that Mr Saxby’s case has been referred to the party's National Constitutional Committee and that he has been suspended pending that process.

The case was heard by the same panel that suspended Jas Athwal, who was in the running to be Labour's candidate in Ilford South. That prompted an angry backlash from his supporters.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/107055/labour-candidate-key-general-election-seat

[ShakaHislop]

Helen Jones MP: We must acknowledge the culture of contempt towards women in the Labour Party

The targeted bullying and harrassment of women MPs in the Labour Party is an attempt to silence us and keep us out of the public sphere, writes Helen Jones MP.

It’s no surprise to anyone that the first two Labour MPs to face trigger ballots are women nor is anyone really shocked that this has happened to women who are highly regarded in Westminster.

For the truth my Party ignores is that women Labour MPs, however well-respected they are, often face bullying and harassment in their constituency parties and many of us feared that the new re-selection process would be used by some to try to get rid of women MPs.

We have long put up with behaviour which would not be tolerated in any workplace. After I was selected in 1997, a person I had never met went on “Election Call” to complain, threats of legal action were made in the local papers and false stories were planted in the press.  Many of my election leaflets were dumped at the side of a motorway.

After my election, council officers were told not to bother responding to my letters as I would “only be a one-term MP”.

That was followed over the years by a “Wanted Dead or Alive “ poster through my door, poison pen letters sent to me and others, including one circulated to council leaders when I was part of the local government team, a councillor writing critical letters to the press under a false name and yet more untrue stories.

There were continual threats of deselection as well as a bombardment of abusive texts and emails from one individual.  I have a whole file of them.

These incidents are not unique or even the worst examples of what some women have to put up with.  There are plenty of examples of male council leaders who will work with male MPs in the borough but exclude a woman MP. I know of one who would not even speak to a woman MP when they were in the same station waiting room.

Then there is the bullying.

One woman was bawled at during a meeting simply for making a suggestion.  Apparently this was “a threat”. Another was shouted at for “writing too many letters” to the council, otherwise known as doing her job.

I have one colleague who has been bullied unmercifully by the men who run her constituency who shout at her in meetings, undermine her campaigning and refuse to contribute to funding the General Election.

When she did a mobile surgery in an area where very little work had been done, the local councillor rang her office and said, without preamble, “Tell that f*****g b***h to keep out of my ward”.  Of course no action was taken against him.

Sometimes families are targeted.

Relatives have been sacked by the local council on some spurious pretext and complaints made against members of the family who happen to be members of the Labour Party.  When these complaints are found to be groundless nothing is done. Often there is a stream of complaints about the MP too, just to keep her ground down.

It’s all part of an effort to silence women and to keep us out of the public sphere.

Submitting a bullying and harassment complaint leads nowhere. I put in a complaint against one man in 2016 and it was mysteriously “lost”.  I re-submitted it and am still waiting.

I have a friend with a long-standing complaint which has never been dealt with. Instead, the Party triggered her re-selection procedure, to be presided over by the same bullies.

In echoes of Gilead women are often asked what they have done to provoke such behaviour or else they are asked to sit down with the bullies for “conciliation”. Yet the Party should not be neutral between the bullies and the person being bullied.

It’s time to call out this culture of contempt for women and for the Party to start by acknowledging it exists.

If not, there will be more attempts at de-selection, fewer women wanting to stand and our attempts to achieve equality will fail.

Helen Jones is Labour MP for Warrington North.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/opinion/house-commons/107016/helen-jones-mp-we-must

[ShakaHislop]

Urgent Labour meeting over future of MP Louise Ellman to be held tonight

Executive committee to meet after number of no confidence motions launched by ward branches

An emergency Labour Party meeting has been called to discuss the future of Liverpool Riverside MP Dame Louise Ellman.

Tonight, members of Riverside's Executive Committee will gather to discuss the submission of a number of no confidence motions submitted against the MP by ward branches in her constituency.

The ECHO has seen a note from Liverpool Riverside Constituency Labour Party Secretary Robin Altwarg, which states:

"As a majority of EC (executive committee) members have requested it I am calling an emergency Executive Committee meeting to be held to discuss the recent submission of votes of no confidence in the MP."

The ECHO understands that three separate Riverside wards - St Michaels, Princes Park and Greenbank - have all submitted no confidence motions.

But under current Labour party rules, such motions cannot be used to force MPs out of their positions.

The party has a system of trigger-ballots, which MPs must get through to continue to be the party's candidate for their constituency.

The Jewish Chronicle has today reported on a note sent out by Ruth Knox, the secretary of the St Michaels Ward Branch, explaining that the motion from that branch had now been removed from the agenda for a forthcoming meeting, because it could 'prejudice the outcome of a trigger ballot'.

The message states: "With regards to the agenda for the upcoming branch meeting on Tuesday 8 October 2019, we have received the following advice from the North West Region:

"As you know, we have started the trigger ballots for MPs in the North West. Discussing a motion calling on the Member of Parliament to resign could prejudice the outcome of a trigger ballot in Liverpool Riverside CLP.

"Therefore the Branch are not permitted to discuss this motion."

The emergency meeting of the Riverside CLP Executive Committee will take place from 7pm this evening.

The ECHO has approached Louise Ellman MP for comment.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/urgent-labour-meeting-over-future-17045990

[classycarra]

Labour candidate in key general election seat suspended by the party

A Labour candidate in a key election battleground has been suspended by the party.

Steven Saxby had been expected to stand in the Tory-held Cities of London and Westminster.

Conservative MP Mark Field has held the seat since 2001, and retained it at the 2017 election after seeing off the challenge of Labour's İbrahim Doğuş with a majority of 3,148.

It is also being heavily targeted by the Lib Dems, whose candidate at the next election will be former Labour MP Chuka Umunna.

The decision to suspend Mr Saxby was taken by Labour officials on Friday night and is thought to related to an accusation of sexual harassment.

In a statement, Mr Saxby told LabourList: "A complaint has been made against me, which I strongly refute. I believe all complaints must be investigated properly.

"I am hoping for a speedy outcome of the complaint process and for the suspension from the Labour party to be lifted as soon as possible so that I can get back to campaigning."

A Labour spokesperson said: "The Labour party takes all complaints extremely seriously, which are investigated and any appropriate disciplinary action taken in line with the party’s rules and procedures. We can’t comment on individual cases."

It is understood that Mr Saxby’s case has been referred to the party's National Constitutional Committee and that he has been suspended pending that process.

The case was heard by the same panel that suspended Jas Athwal, who was in the running to be Labour's candidate in Ilford South. That prompted an angry backlash from his supporters.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/107055/labour-candidate-key-general-election-seat

It's no wonder the leadership's cabal has been disastrous the last few years. Seumus can't even keep their lies consistent for a day.

But a source close to the Labour leadership said: "Anyone claiming this is a stitch up is dismissing extremely serious allegations against this individual.

"This decision was taken by a panel following a report from an independent investigator from an a specialist organisation. The case was anonymised so the panel did not know who the individual was.

"The timing has nothing to do with the selection process. Yesterday was the earliest opportunity for the case to be reviewed following the independent investigator’s report."
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/107054/labour-plunged-race-row-after-sikh-candidate

[ShakaHislop]

It's no wonder the leadership's cabal has been disastrous the last few years. Seumus can't even keep their lies consistent for a day.

Stephen Hepburn MP (LAB, Jarrow) has been suspended from the Labour party following sexual harassment allegations.

The 2 main parties have absolutely haemorraged MPs during this Parliament.

MP Stephen Hepburn Suspended From Labour Party Over Sexual Harassment Allegation

MP Stephen Hepburn has been suspended from the Labour party while a complaint of sexual harassment is investigated.

HuffPost UK revealed in March that the 59-year-old Jarrow MP is alleged to have targeted a female party member in her 20s back in 2005.

A panel has met and referred the case to the party’s National Constitution Committee, which will investigate further.

The complaint was first lodged with the party two years ago but was dropped. It was later reopened when a fellow MP said to be present at the alleged incident submitted evidence to an internal investigation.

Hepburn is said to have cornered the young woman after a night out and wanted to join her in a taxi home, it is claimed. 

The MP giving evidence writes that Hepburn was allowing the woman “little or no freedom of movement” and that he can recall the incident, alleged to have taken place at a curry restaurant 14 years ago, “quite vividly, because it was so unpleasant”.

The complaint was reopened in light of the MP’s evidence.

“During the course of the meal, Stephen made laddish ‘banter’ and the atmosphere was rather awkward,” the MP wrote in a statement.

The young woman grew tired after the meal and wanted to go home in a taxi, he said.

“The indication was entirely clear that he wanted to take her back in the taxi,” the MP’s evidence continued.

“His actions crossed the line between tactile and aggressive. He was saying ‘come on’ and standing between her and the wall allowing her little or no freedom of movement.

“[The woman] was very upset.”

It was at that point that the MP “interposed” himself between Hepburn and the woman and she was able to leave. 

The politician wrote: “I am sure he would not have treated a man in the same way. His whole attitude was predatory. He was a little drunk – loose tongued and jovial. However, he was speaking coherently and certainly was not drunk enough to fall down.”

It is understood that the panel acted on advice from an independent barrister.

A party spokesman said: “The Labour party takes all complaints of sexual harassment extremely seriously, which are fully investigated and any appropriate disciplinary action taken in line with the party’s rules and procedures.

“We are determined to challenge and overturn sexual harassment and misogyny within politics and across society as a whole. We cannot comment on individual complaints.”

HuffPost UK has contacted Hepburn for comment.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/mp-stephen-hepburn-suspended-from-labour-over-sex-harassment-allegation_uk_5d9b0e40e4b03b475f9c7972

I wonder if this decision was made by the same panel as referred to in the reports regarding Ilford South and the Cities of London and Westminister, and whether this case was anonymised. It would also be interesting to know whether the Jarrow selection process has already taken place or not.

The Labour MP for Hartlepool was suspended for alleged sexual harassment last month too.

Mike Hill: Sex harassment claim investigated by Labour

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-49795248

[Robinred]

A cynic might have started to believe that so many suspensions, with similar sexual harassment overtones, of these candidates, smacks of too much coincidence, and fits the pattern of timeworn communist purges.

Of course it may simply be that. Coincidence.

[stevo7]

As I live in Riverside - If Ellman is deselected i'm defo voting LibDem. I think a lot of South Liverpool think the same. Or for Ellman as an Independent.

[ShakaHislop]

Heidi Allen has joined the Lib Dems.

[Zeb]

Helen Jones MP: We must acknowledge the culture of contempt towards women in the Labour Party

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/opinion/house-commons/107016/helen-jones-mp-we-must

Heidi Allen has joined the Lib Dems.

These two things are not unrelated. Nor is the reason why likes of Allen have crossed the floor in the first place because it's not just the hard left who have a problem with such things.

[filopastry]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 33% (+6)
LAB: 27% (-)
LDEM: 19% (-1)
BREX: 13% (-4)

via
@ComRes

Chgs. w/ 24 Sep