Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023 - archived discussions about what’s offensive

[Fromola]

It’s got nothing to do with the owners. Klopp is the one who decides not to buy people or “push them out”.

I made the point that if it was purely about numbers then Klopp should have made sure 1 or 2 moved on in the summer and said so at the time.

But if he's operating on mostly a sell to buy policy then we didn't really have none-first choice midfielders who'd fetch a big fee in the summer. It would have been a case of not-renewing Milner, just cutting Ox loose or getting whatever we could for Keita. That hardly brings in a big fee to then replace them if that was required. But then it Tchouameni was the main target then if we did get him it forces us to move someone on if was just about numbers.

[Fromola]

Yeah I think we’re facing the consequences for not been ruthless enough, which is easier for us fans to say and call for here. It’s part of what makes Klopp such a great man manager afterall.

I was very happy, like all Liverpool fans, that we’ve kept the group together but I was expecting more succession planning in the midfield like we have done in defence and attack.

I’d also argue Ox, Keita and possibly Milner still been here isn’t a lack of ruthlessness but too far the other way on the loyalty spectrum.

Klopp has been content in letting players run their contracts down and go for nothing when they're purely back up options. Moreno, Clyne, Sturridge, Lallana, Origi. But then they weren't replaced either. We didn't sign a left back when Moreno left and Robbo was left as our only natural LB. We didn't sign an attacker in 2019 when Sturridge left either. We didn't sign another RB when Clyne left. That was despite a lot of wages saved. We signed one striker this summer but 3 first team forwards left. Lovren was another one who we sold last year of contract but then the money wasn't there to replace him with disastrous consequences.

Just because a player leaves doesn't mean we'll replace them. Gini another example.

[No666]

It's frustrating that we just targeted Tchouameni. It must have been obvious early on that Madrid were his favoured destination and we were gambling on them not having the funds to bring him in if they completed on Mbappe. It was stupid, given that PSG were always in a position to trump salary. Guimarães was available last summer, as well.

[Chris~]

You don't need to replace every player as a 1 in 1 out system. And even though we've not done that we're now hitting a first team squad of nearly 30. Usually those players who's contracts are running down and going on a free are contributing so little because they've already been replaced. Trent took over Clyne, Milner had already replaced Moreno when he went an entire season as first choice over him. Jones was already beginning to take over Lallana's very reduced role.

We've signed 3/4 forwards in the 12 months now, did we really need to spend more to replace Origi's 300ish league minutes over the last two seasons?

[rossipersempre]

Klopp has been content in letting players run their contracts down and go for nothing when they're purely back up options. Moreno, Clyne, Sturridge, Lallana, Origi. But then they weren't replaced either. We didn't sign a left back when Moreno left and Robbo was left as our only natural LB. We didn't sign an attacker in 2019 when Sturridge left either. We didn't sign another RB when Clyne left. That was despite a lot of wages saved. We signed one striker this summer but 3 first team forwards left. Lovren was another one who we sold last year of contract but then the money wasn't there to replace him with disastrous consequences.

Just because a player leaves doesn't mean we'll replace them. Gini another example.

Another example? He's the prime example and it's astonishing and infuriating we've not signed a replacement or even a similar player since he was allowed to leave 18 months ago, directly leading to the current midfield crisis.

[Phineus]

^ yeah I agree it’s not always been directly linear but we have rebuilt parts of the squad. Jota, Diaz and Gakpo now in attack, Tsimikas, Konate and Ramsay in defence.

It just makes the midfield lack of signings, bar Thiago who was not our typical age profile in a signing, just very bizarre and it’s not through a lack of funds.

[hide5seek]

Regardless, still think it will be an amazing signing. From what I have seen of him he is a really good player and absolutely someone who would walk into our side.

I'd walk into our side and I'm 58 and 2 and a half stone over weight and like most of our midfield can't run
Its absolutely criminal how our midfield has been allowed to get so old injury prone and knackered.

[Syntexity]

It's frustrating that we just targeted Tchouameni. It must have been obvious early on that Madrid were his favoured destination and we were gambling on them not having the funds to bring him in if they completed on Mbappe. It was stupid, given that PSG were always in a position to trump salary. Guimarães was available last summer, as well.

Guimaraes went to Newcastle last january, no? He would have been a great addition really and for a really good price in todays market, but feel we need someone more physical, a proper ball winner who will cover enough ground to make up for Thiago and help out Fab. And we need one now, what we have is not enough as our midfield gets passed by most games now.

[fowlermagic]

We have been crying out for at least one midfielder since Gini left us and 18 months later we are now begging for two even. Those that are here have all question marks over them as either injury prone, aging, a tad too young perhaps or just collecting their final big weekly cheques.

Fabinho is the only top class option under the age of 30, Thiago will be 32 next season, Henderson 33 so our midfield engine is becoming a vintage model that looks great on the odd Sunday run but will probably struggle to last a whole season if starting even once a week.

We have fallen asleep at the wheel in regards to the midfield requirements especially when compared to forward line's need for freshening up. We must have spent close to 200m including potential add ons to improve our attack. Well the same may have to be spent on midfield as we are creaking at the seams to contain midtable teams right now. Getting completely overrun allowing the opposition to have three or four attackers get at our back line who often have only two players holding the line.

It's amazing we went through three transfer windows without spending a few million on a midfielder. This is the fourth so let's see if we are doing the impression of sn ostrich. No additions again this window and we will probably miss out on the Top 4

[MD1990]

To be honest, I wouldn't mind if Benfica/Porto and Ajax/PSV become our new Southampton ...

I would be very careful about targetting Eredivisie players.
Look at how Ajax have sold players for far too much.

Wait & see how Gakpo adapts.

[royhendo]

It’s not an imposed “sell to buy”. The manager has players and he refuses to “push them out” because he says that’s not how he wants to work. So if you only push out when it’s a Sahko type situation and you only buy if “it’s the right player”, you end up repeatedly in these situations under this manager. It’s not a lack of funds. It’s the cost of having this utterly wonderful manager. The upside is that we fix it big when we end up fixing it, but arguably another approach wins us the European Cup in Madrid and lets us put in a meaningful title defence.

[Fromola]

It's frustrating that we just targeted Tchouameni. It must have been obvious early on that Madrid were his favoured destination and we were gambling on them not having the funds to bring him in if they completed on Mbappe. It was stupid, given that PSG were always in a position to trump salary. Guimarães was available last summer, as well.

We knew in May Tchouameni was going to Madrid, even before the CL final. Mbappe confirmed he was staying at PSG on 21st May and Madrid straight away acted decisively on Tchouameni.

Bellingham was a no-go last summer and we were reluctant to sign anyone else until well into August when we'd realised what a miscalculation we'd made.

[Fromola]

You don't need to replace every player as a 1 in 1 out system. And even though we've not done that we're now hitting a first team squad of nearly 30. Usually those players who's contracts are running down and going on a free are contributing so little because they've already been replaced. Trent took over Clyne, Milner had already replaced Moreno when he went an entire season as first choice over him. Jones was already beginning to take over Lallana's very reduced role.

We've signed 3/4 forwards in the 12 months now, did we really need to spend more to replace Origi's 300ish league minutes over the last two seasons?

Clyne and Moreno were purely back ups as they ran their contracts down but they were on first XI wages. When they left they should have been replaced. Tsimikas came a year later (at the expense of a Lovren replacement) and Trent has been our only natural RB in recent seasons as we haven't signed one until Ramsey. The point was we didn't have the other options there and just shoving Milner there has got less appealing each year.

We were light up front in depth when Sturridge left (and when he was here as he wasn't offering much in his last seasons). He wasn't replaced though, we didn't sign an outfield player at all in 2019.

We were left a bit light in attack this season by losing 3 and gaining 1, which we've had to rectify in January rather than sorting the midfield out (yet).

The numbers are too high because we haven't moved the likes of Ox and Nat Phillips on.

[Passmaster Molby]

Our fan base is full of looney tunes to be honest. Some fans last week are praising FSG for pulling the Gakpo deal off and saying how well they have done, then Paul Joyce does a tweet about no further signings and those same fans are now berating FSG for not getting a midfielder.

I too would love us to get an energetic all action midfielder as it’s exactly what we need, but if Klopp doesn’t see the right one being available now then we will just have to be patient and wait.

Toddlers, toys and prams spring to mind.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Our transfers under Ward of Gakpo, Diaz and Nunez all came out of nowhere in that the deal was done quietly and quickly so that just tells us that we will hear no news until we are close to announcing someone. It wont be in the United style of chasing Gakpo or Chelsea signing every player in the world.

I fully believe we have another player to come in January.

Our deals come from nowhere but our targets tend to be known. Which makes me think if a midfield signing comes from nowhere, it’ll be for someone we know we like - maybe Caicedo, maybe Kone.

[PeterTheRed ...]

I would be very careful about targetting Eredivisie players.
Look at how Ajax have sold players for far too much.

Wait & see how Gakpo adapts.

I am not that worried. Players from the Eredivisie come well developed technically and tactically, and Jurgen and his staff will do the rest. Holland and Portugal have been the stepping stone for overseas players for ages, and you just need to scout the players properly, something that we are good at.

I am deliberately avoiding to comment on Gakpo, even though I have seen quite a bit of him. Many people will be pleasantly surprised, once he settles with us ...

[rossipersempre]

I too would love us to get an energetic all action midfielder as it’s exactly what we need, but if Klopp doesn’t see the right one being available now then we will just have to be patient and wait.

Toddlers, toys and prams spring to mind.

Do you honestly believe that to be valid, after what would be FOUR transfer windows?

[Fromola]

Our fan base is full of looney tunes to be honest. Some fans last week are praising FSG for pulling the Gakpo deal off and saying how well they have done, then Paul Joyce does a tweet about no further signings and those same fans are now berating FSG for not getting a midfielder.

I too would love us to get an energetic all action midfielder as it’s exactly what we need, but if Klopp doesn’t see the right one being available now then we will just have to be patient and wait.

Toddlers, toys and prams spring to mind.

We are where we are this season because we've neglected the midfield (whether you blame Klopp, the recruitment team or the owners or it be general complacency).

When you're resorting to giving a physically done Ox a run in attack then you know you need reinforcements there (after losing 3 in the summer) but the midfield are physically done as well. People will be pissed off with the situation until the club do something about it and were last summer despite the fact we'd just nearly won the lot because we could see what was going to happen this season, albeit not to the extent it has. And if we'd replaced Gini the summer before it could have made the extra difference last season and instead we ran the likes of Fabinho into the ground.

The concern in the summer was neglecting the midfield would cost us the title. Early into the season and it became clear that it could actually cost us top 4 and we wouldn't be in a title race. The club didn't really factor that in over the summer but they surely will now.

[Chris~]

Clyne and Moreno were purely back ups as they ran their contracts down but they were on first XI wages. When they left they should have been replaced. Tsimikas came a year later (at the expense of a Lovren replacement) and Trent has been our only natural RB in recent seasons as we haven't signed one until Ramsey. The point was we didn't have the other options there and just shoving Milner there has got less appealing each year.

We were light up front in depth when Sturridge left (and when he was here as he wasn't offering much in his last seasons). He wasn't replaced though, we didn't sign an outfield player at all in 2019.

We were left a bit light in attack this season by losing 3 and gaining 1, which we've had to rectify in January rather than sorting the midfield out (yet).

The numbers are too high because we haven't moved the likes of Ox and Nat Phillips on.

Ox has already started more league games than Origi last season, Phillips same as Clyne in his last. These are the players like Sturridge, Moreno, Lallana who do not need replacing. They were back ups because they got replaced by better, more trusted players minutes wise, not because they ran their contracts down.

[PeterTheRed ...]

It’s not an imposed “sell to buy”. The manager has players and he refuses to “push them out” because he says that’s not how he wants to work. So if you only push out when it’s a Sahko type situation and you only buy if “it’s the right player”, you end up repeatedly in these situations under this manager. It’s not a lack of funds. It’s the cost of having this utterly wonderful manager. The upside is that we fix it big when we end up fixing it, but arguably another approach wins us the European Cup in Madrid and lets us put in a meaningful title defence.

Jurgen's loyalty to his players can sometimes be frustrating, but on the other side it is one of the reasons why players love playing under him. We've seen players joining us despite being offered higher was elsewhere. In my opinion, the positives of his approach are much bigger than the negatives ...

[naYoRHa2b]

I think if we played a game a week then it would be much different in terms of how our midfield performs but the reality is that through injury and age profile the demands of the game are too much for this midfield.

I'd be quite happy for hendo to play the 8 once a week, same with Thiago, despite their age but we can't, especially with the intensity we need to play at. These players should be squad rotation because of there age and general decline in stamina and athleticism which is only compounded by the amount of games we play.

Gini Wijnaldum wasn't the best midfielder in the world, he popped up with a goal now and then, rarely assisted but he was perfect for what we did. We need to get back to that, we don't need the best player in the world in that position but we need one that's right for us, or two in this case.

[JackWard33]

Why are posts being written as if Klopp is making all the purchasing and contract decisions… did I miss a memo?

[Clint Eastwood]

For me if you’re Curtis and Bajcetic you have to grab it.

No idea what's going on with Jones' fitness, but he's easily our most athletic midfielder and I think there's a big opportunity for him when he's back. Could be make or break.

[Chris~]

Why is it being posted Klopp is making all the purchasing and contract decisions… did I miss a memo?

Joyce etc. saying he's had a lot more say in the last 12 months in a few of their articles

Klopp’s decision to extend his contract in April until 2026 does provide Liverpool with stability and he has been increasingly central in determining the club’s transfer policy over the past year.
It was Klopp and his backroom staff who pushed for the signing of Luis Díaz from Porto in January to prevent him going to Tottenham Hotspur. Klopp also “fell in love” with Darwin Núñez when Liverpool faced Benfica in the Champions League last season.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liverpool-sporting-director-julian-ward-to-leave-at-end-of-season-swz3jhpgx

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Clyne and Moreno were purely back ups as they ran their contracts down but they were on first XI wages. When they left they should have been replaced. Tsimikas came a year later (at the expense of a Lovren replacement) and Trent has been our only natural RB in recent seasons as we haven't signed one until Ramsey. The point was we didn't have the other options there and just shoving Milner there has got less appealing each year.

We were light up front in depth when Sturridge left (and when he was here as he wasn't offering much in his last seasons). He wasn't replaced though, we didn't sign an outfield player at all in 2019.

We were left a bit light in attack this season by losing 3 and gaining 1, which we've had to rectify in January rather than sorting the midfield out (yet).

The numbers are too high because we haven't moved the likes of Ox and Nat Phillips on.

You can't just talk about us not replacing certain players without referencing the times when we've signed players that aren't replacements. Perfect example, you talk about losing three attackers in the summer and only signing one replacement whilst ignoring the signing of Diaz 6 months earlier (and also ignoring Carvalho but that's a different story). Similarly, we signed Thiago as an additional midfielder, no doubt in the knowledge that Wijnaldum was soon to be leaving.

You're also ignoring youngsters coming through. Elliott must have replaced someone. Brewster was supposed to be Sturridge's replacement. Jones wasn't around a few seasons ago.

[Redman78]

Yep. We’ve bought at the top end of the market before. Why can’t we now, when we’re far richer? Nothing about Klopp’s comments here are reassuring.

That money was always recouped, or generated through sales first though..

[royhendo]

In Kiev, not Madrid, sorry

[Fromola]

I think if we played a game a week then it would be much different in terms of how our midfield performs but the reality is that through injury and age profile the demands of the game are too much for this midfield.

I'd be quite happy for hendo to play the 8 once a week, same with Thiago, despite their age but we can't, especially with the intensity we need to play at. These players should be squad rotation because of there age and general decline in stamina and athleticism which is only compounded by the amount of games we play.

Agree with the once a week but even then they haven't really got a solid 90 minutes in them but more 60-70. I'd only be starting one of Henderson or Thiago most of the time but then you're relying on Keita/Jones/Arthur to actually be available and performing.

We always start both halves so slow and I don't know if it's down to having to pace our way through games now.

[El Lobo]

Do you honestly believe that to be valid, after what would be FOUR transfer windows?

I mean, considering since our last CM signing (Thiago) we’ve signed four (4) left sided attackers (Jota, Diaz, Nunez, Gakpo) for even conservatively £200 million odd then yeah….I think the whole ‘FSG are being stingy’ line should probably be binned off

[killer-heels]

Joyce etc. saying he's had a lot more say in the last 12 months in a few of their articles

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liverpool-sporting-director-julian-ward-to-leave-at-end-of-season-swz3jhpgx

Well thats good because if left to our transfer nerds, we would have not signed anybody.

[King Kenny 7]

I know lots of folk like shiny continental plays but are we missing out by not looking closer to home.

The way prices are starting to get silly would someone like James Ward-Prowse not be an option.


I know Southampton are in trouble but could we not sort a deal now as he will leave if they go down and it likely they will.
He could add a fair bit to our team.

Would 40mil get it sorted?

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I know lots of folk like shiny continental plays but are we missing out by not looking closer to home.

The way prices are starting to get silly would someone like James Ward-Prowse not be an option.


I know Southampton are in trouble but could we not sort a deal now as he will leave if they go down and it likely they will.
He could add a fair bit to our team.

Would 40mil get it sorted?

What's with recommending really slow midfielders to solve our lack of pace issues in midfield?

[Tobelius]

Some rumours about Juve looking to offload Rabiot and Mckennie,anyone think either of those would work for us?

[MonsLibpool]

I know lots of folk like shiny continental plays but are we missing out by not looking closer to home.

The way prices are starting to get silly would someone like James Ward-Prowse not be an option.


I know Southampton are in trouble but could we not sort a deal now as he will leave if they go down and it likely they will.
He could add a fair bit to our team.

Would 40mil get it sorted?

His mileage is high. He has been playing top flight football since he was 17.

[PeterTheRed ...]

I think if we played a game a week then it would be much different in terms of how our midfield performs but the reality is that through injury and age profile the demands of the game are too much for this midfield.

I'd be quite happy for hendo to play the 8 once a week, same with Thiago, despite their age but we can't, especially with the intensity we need to play at. These players should be squad rotation because of there age and general decline in stamina and athleticism which is only compounded by the amount of games we play.

Gini Wijnaldum wasn't the best midfielder in the world, he popped up with a goal now and then, rarely assisted but he was perfect for what we did. We need to get back to that, we don't need the best player in the world in that position but we need one that's right for us, or two in this case.

Most of our troubles came from the bad luck with the injuries. Keita, Ox, Jones and Arthur have barely played before the World Cup, putting too much workload on Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson and Elliot. If we don't sign another midfielder in January, I can see Keita, Jones, Ox, Arthur, Carvalho, Milner and Bajcetic getting most of the playing time in the FA Cup, and even some playing time in the PL and the CL, resting Fabinho, Thiago and Henderson. Going out of the League Cup could also be a blessing in disguise, since it will mean 4 games less ...

[Stockholm Syndrome]

I know lots of folk like shiny continental plays but are we missing out by not looking closer to home.

The way prices are starting to get silly would someone like James Ward-Prowse not be an option.


I know Southampton are in trouble but could we not sort a deal now as he will leave if they go down and it likely they will.
He could add a fair bit to our team.

Would 40mil get it sorted?

Just because they are a "Brexit" midfielder doesn't mean they are going to be a Milner/Henderson/Gini.

He's just not good enough; he has one trick (set pieces) which we don't really have an issue with, and he just isn't good enough or provide what we need otherwise.

I'd rather a McGinn or Dewsbury-Hall than Ward-Prowse, and I wouldn't pay more than 20 for either of them because they're really crap as well.

[MonsLibpool]

Just because they are a "Brexit" midfielder doesn't mean they are going to be a Milner/Henderson/Gini.

He's just not good enough; he has one trick (set pieces) which we don't really have an issue with, and he just isn't good enough or provide what we need otherwise.

I'd rather a McGinn or Dewsbury-Hall than Ward-Prowse, and I wouldn't pay more than 20 for either of them because they're really crap as well.

We don't tend to win many freekicks in central positions anyway.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Some rumours about Juve looking to offload Rabiot and Mckennie,anyone think either of those would work for us?

Rabiot is FUCKING SHITE and his agent/mother is a fucking nutter, Mckennie I don't know enough about to say

[Hazell]

Rabiot is FUCKING SHITE and his agent/mother is a fucking nutter

True, we've been burned once with Paul Konchesky in that respect.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Some rumours about Juve looking to offload Rabiot and Mckennie,anyone think either of those would work for us?

Rabiot brings too much baggage with him, so I'd stay clear. McKennie could be interesting player on loan, with an option to buy in the summer ...