Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)

[Suareznumber7]

How can you control a game when the keeper hoofs 26 times, Lovren 11 times - whether it was a game plan or not. We never even tried to pass out from the back so not only have hoofed non stop we also have a DM who doesn't want to do anything with the ball unless he's in oceans of space to receive it in.

Phil was level above everyone on the pitch quality wise, we never even tried to use him properly.

It’s really hard to play out of the back when you don’t have players in the most important positions who are comfortable with the ball under pressure. 

[SerbianScouser]

It’s really hard to play out of the back when you don’t have players in the most important positions who are comfortable with the ball under pressure. 

Yes it's a problem but between Karius, Matip, Lallana, Gini and Phil we have enough technical ability to go to a place like Sevilla and make mockery out of their pressing with good coaching. Pep for example would have a field day with this group when it comes to passing out from the back.

[killer-heels]

How can you control a game when the keeper hoofs 26 times, Lovren 11 times - whether it was a game plan or not. We never even tried to pass out from the back so not only have hoofed non stop we also have a DM who doesn't want to do anything with the ball unless he's in oceans of space to receive it in.

Phil was level above everyone on the pitch quality wise, we never even tried to use him properly.

What was his pass success rate.

[slaphead]

It’s really hard to play out of the back when you don’t have players in the most important positions who are comfortable with the ball under pressure. 

That's Gini's game though. Get and give, especially in tight areas, which is why he always seems to impress against the big teams if the game is tight.  He never holds on to the ball or dictates the tempo of a game though, I dont think he has that in him. So you need someone alongside him that can. Someone with Stevie's engine, Xabi's ability to control a game, Mascherano's street wise skills and Craig Bellamy's mentality. Then we'd be sucking diesel

[Jookie]

How can you control a game when the keeper hoofs 26 times, Lovren 11 times - whether it was a game plan or not. We never even tried to pass out from the back so not only have hoofed non stop we also have a DM who doesn't want to do anything with the ball unless he's in oceans of space to receive it in.

Phil was level above everyone on the pitch quality wise, we never even tried to use him properly.

For me that was part of the game plan from Seville in the 2nd half.

Stop them playing it out from the back and press high. Make Karius plus the 2 CB's and Henderson go long when under pressure.

It's a high risk strategy since you need to play a high defensive line against Mane and Salah. However, it works if you can dominate the battle when the ball goes long. That's what Seville's defenders did in the 2nd half. They won virtually every long ball and they could keep us penned back. At that point, all of Coutinho's strengths within midfield are negated and his weaknesses exposed. I'm not blaming him for the draw but that's how I saw it.

At the start of the season I think we'd have tried to play it out from the back a bit more than last night. However, the last few weeks (since Spurs) have seen a more pragmatic approach to defending all round. That entails going a bit more direct when pressed high. I don't think our front 3 offered anywhere near enough in the 2nd half last night. Conversely you could argue that they were fed scraps. The truth is somewhere in between. Defenders and Henderson should have been more progressive, the front 3 should have done better given they were playing against a very high line.

To be honest, Seville did to us in the 2nd half what we try and do to other teams. Press high, create mistakes high up the pitch and if the opposition go long try and dominate 2nd balls and keep the opposition pushed back. We've seen multiple time last season how that can fall down when the likes of Llorente or Dicko dominated our centre backs and gave the opposition an out ball. Last night, 2nd half we didn't have an out ball. Was the same in the Europa League final a few years ago.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I think in an ideal situation we'd have a proper defensive mid as an alternative. It could have given us a bit more defensive cover and killed off the game. I don't think the Henderson no.6 experiment has failed, I just think it's not a blanket solution for every situation. There is a place for Henderson as a no.6 in some games IMO and a place for him to play beside a more defensive option give us a more solid midfield.

Why would you want this incarnation of Jordan Henderson - i.e. post-injury - alongside someone more defensive though? It's a complete waste of a spot in the side. Were we to sign a 'proper defensive mid' next summer we'd then have Keita, Lallana and even Wijnaldum for that role next to them who are significantly better footballers.

I agree he's better suited to that role than he is the sole holder, but I really don't think he'd offer enough at this level for that box-to-box role anymore, hence Klopp moving him deeper to a position where he felt he might. It worked initially during his purple patch in the early months of last season but rarely has since.

[fowlermagic]

Hats off to Sevilla for a massive comeback last night as they really gave it their all after a shocking 1st half. Jurgen looked like he had pulled a few clumps of hair out of his head after and will need a few questions answered as the season goes on.

Against the better teams we will have challenges and so far this season we have struggled pretty much against any team that is Top 6 quality or any side that just gets at our center / gives it a lash Jack. A wee bit of levelheadedness is required in the key areas of midfield / defence. Keita coming in will help link the play between the attack and midfield but I dont see him helping link midfield and defence as much. Also with him coming in that means Gini is more under threat than Henderson and to be honest Henderson's role needs the upgrading not Gini. Anyway other posters will dissect our tactics much better than I can but so far this season our attack is really keeping the rest of the team in it. How we are within reach of the next round / Top 4 is 80% down to our attack and when they struggle as they did last night in the 2nd half it peels away the paint that hides the cracks in the team.

[Suareznumber7]

Yes it's a problem but between Karius, Matip, Lallana, Gini and Phil we have enough technical ability to go to a place like Sevilla and make mockery out of their pressing with good coaching. Pep for example would have a field day with this group when it comes to passing out from the back.

I agree that we should be able to play around their press but we really aren't set up to and when you add a few players into the mix who aren't comfortable with the ball at their feet it's a recipe for long ball after long ball from the back. 

[fowlermagic]

How could our defenders not be comfortable when under pressure? In every training session we do they have to contend with Mane, Salah & Co pressing them. We are one of the best geggenpressing teams in Europe so surely that has to rub off our midfield / backline via the various training drills in how to handle said press.

[El Denzel Pepito]

Would love to see Henderson run with the ball for once. He was actually fairly good at that at one point, during his early year, but I fear Klopp's view of our defence is that it always has to be protected no matter what situation we're in on the pitch, means that he just stays back and looks for passes rather than being inventive with it, maybe even brave. We were penned in for so much of the game last night, and whilst our midfield pretty much disappeared (30% possession), the least we could have done is run with the ball and exploit the space once we got the ball. But instead Henderson (and Wijnaldum, and others) just looked to play it through as soon as possible to one of Salah and Mane. How about run and drive into the space a bit, rather than looking to get rid?

Just stinks of bad game management at times, gifting the ball back rather than putting their body in the way and running, maybe looking for a foul but atleast being threatening. We just kept giving them the ball back and another attack would start, rinse and repeat.

[El Denzel Pepito]

How could our defenders not be comfortable when under pressure? In every training session we do they have to contend with Mane, Salah & Co pressing them. We are one of the best geggenpressing teams in Europe so surely that has to rub off our midfield / backline via the various training drills in how to handle said press.

I've always thought this too. Somehow never quite seems to translate. I'd be shocked if we were as stupid as this in training. I'd imagine he'd have got rid of a lot more players at the back by now in that case.

[fowlermagic]

I've always thought this too. Somehow never quite seems to translate. I'd be shocked if we were as stupid as this in training. I'd imagine he'd have got rid of a lot more players at the back by now in that case.

I dont have a clue as I hope Klopp is not blind to our issues. Based on the players we are linked to I dont think he is as a Mascherano and VVD would add solidity to a soft center. Funny how for quite a while we were been told a DM is not in Jurgens formation plans but my god it be nice to have that option. Even a Lucas coming on last night would have helped at 3-1  but anyhoo thats water under the bridge...time to address it will come.

[rscanderlech]

I dont have a clue as I hope Klopp is not blind to our issues. Based on the players we are linked to I dont think he is as a Mascherano and VVD would add solidity to a soft center. Funny how for quite a while we were been told a DM is not in Jurgens formation plans but my god it be nice to have that option. Even a Lucas coming on last night would have helped at 3-1  but anyhoo thats water under the bridge...time to address it will come.

Good teams often have a DM as an option, even if he isn’t usually a regular in the first team. But you can at least have someone like Matic in your side...

I think we all realise that these weaknesses of ours, namely, controlling a game through possession, controlling a game through space (ie controlling a game full stop!), showing leadership, desire, confidence and character, defending set pieces, and defending in general, have a lot to do with our having a substandard squad. Apart from the attack, which itself doesn’t contain a single world class player in reality, our midfield and defence are simply not top 4 level.

For years people have complained of the goalkeeper’s quality, the left back, the centre backs, the central midfield. The truth is that we never address any of these problem areas very well. In Matip, Moreno, Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner, Can, Mignolet, Karius, Klavan, we simply have players who are really unexceptional. The crime, in my eyes, was to have blown our chance this sunmer, when we were in the top 4 and purportedly had £150m+ to spend, yet only signed Mo Salah as a serious addition to the squad. No midfielders (though Keita is coming), and, most incredibly of all, no defender except a 23-year-old reserve left back (which itself is insane)s and no goalkeepers.

And all this with the knowledge that we would be back in Europe and needed a bigger squad as well as a better one.

Salah has masked over in our minds the sheer stupidity and incompetence of our recruitment this summer, which resulted in us hardly improving our squad at all, when we had one golden opportunity to do so.

So if our squad is the same as it was last season more or less—especially in defence and midfield where it is exactly the same, plus Robertson—then how should we expect massive improvement in our defending or game management? If anything, with the increase in fixture load, we should expect a slight decline. That decline might get balanced out by our young squad getting a little older and spending more time together, so then we should expect to do well to simply perform like last season.

[joekim87]

I don't know if I'm being overly positive but the season doesn't end in December but May. We still have January to fix our problems. If we don't upgrade in January, I'd be worried then but at the moment, we seem to be doing okay. I doubt VVD or whoever would have made us better than City and with positions 2nd to 4th are still up for grabs (with us just outside) I don't think our Summer was all that bad.

Plus, how much more exciting is this final game in the group stage. I'll probably sh*t my pants for 90 minutes unless we're up 5 goals with 2 minutes to go but exciting nonetheless.

[Adeemo]

I don't know if I'm being overly positive but the season doesn't end in December but May. We still have January to fix our problems. If we don't upgrade in January, I'd be worried then but at the moment, we seem to be doing okay.

We won't upgrade in January, we never do anymore.

[Jookie]

snip

Not that I necessarily disagree with your comments but what value is there going on and on and on about the summer transfer window. What you said above is literally what's been repeated ad nauseam for the last 3 to 4 months on these boards. In my opinion it adds little value to a topic about Klopp's tactics.

The summer transfer window closed nearly 3 months ago. Let's concentrate on the players we have and how we can improve going forward. There's a shit load of things to still play for this season so let's look forward rather than backwards.

[BabuYagu]

Henderson:

56% pass percentage
0 aerial duels won
0 tackles
0 clearances
0 blocks 1 block
3 interceptions
1 yellow card

Wijnaldum:

75% pass percentage
1 aerial duel won
1 tackle2 tackles
1 clearance3 clearances
0 blocks
0 interceptions

Can (27 minutes):

63% pass percentage
3 aerial duels won
1 tackle
1 clearance
1 block2 blocks
0 interceptions
1 yellow card

Not sure where you get your stats from, but some of them appear to be wrong.

Also it excludes a few other important numbers for a CM under pressure.

Dribbles = Gini 1, Hendo 0, Can 0
Loss of Possession = Gini 0, Hendo 1, Can 0
Assists = Gini 1, Hendo 0, Can 0
Shots = Gini 1, Hendo 0, Can 0

[rscanderlech]

Not that I necessarily disagree with your comments but what value is there going on and on and on about the summer transfer window. What you said above is literally what's been repeated ad nauseam for the last 3 to 4 months on these boards. In my opinion it adds little value to a topic about Klopp's tactics.

The summer transfer window closed nearly 3 months ago. Let's concentrate on the players we have and how we can improve going forward. There's a shit load of things to still play for this season so let's look forward rather than backwards.

My reason for doing so is that, if people are bewildered by our problems persisting year after year, they should remember that we didn’t address any of them in our summer recruitment, meaning that we are still trying to implement a style of play with some of the wrong players.

So it’s not a new mystery that needs solving. (I do apologise if it’s been said a lot already. To be honest, I haven’t been on here very regularly in the past months.)

That’s not to say that there is no tactical analysis to be done, nor anything for Klopp to do to improve the situation. But comments here might take into account that sometimes the tactics are perfectly executable, but the personnel are wrong, and that solutions will therefore not come easily until transfers are done.

[KingKolo]

My reason for doing so is that, if people are bewildered by our problems persisting year after year, they should remember that we didn’t address any of them in our summer recruitment, meaning that we are still trying to implement a style of play with some of the wrong players.

So it’s not a new mystery that needs solving. (I do apologise if it’s been said a lot already. To be honest, I haven’t been on here very regularly in the past months.)

That’s not to say that there is no tactical analysis to be done, nor anything for Klopp to do to improve the situation. But comments here might take into account that sometimes the tactics are perfectly executable, but the personnel are wrong, and that solutions will therefore not come easily until transfers are done.

Sorry, but you're dreaming mate.

Our manager is the reason we have this tendency to let leads slip. It didn't happen nearly so often under Rodgers, Dalglish, Benitez and so on.
Signing a few more players isn't going to change it.
The overall character of a team stems from the manager.

When we collapsed in Basel, Klopp was focussed on encouraging the crowd to get behind the team, rather than making a tactical switch to rescue the game. There was a period of 18 minutes between their first goal and their second goal. The opportunity was there to stick an extra man in midfield and look to regroup, but instead he was yelling at the fans.

Can you imagine Benitez behaving like that?

Last night was the same. Even fucking Steve McManaman could see that someone, fucking anyone needed to be deployed to man-mark Banega. But could Klopp see it? No.

He's just not that good tactically, and we should get used to it.

Signing Van Dijk or whoever might help a bit, but it's not going to have as big an impact as our manager's philosophy.
And for each summer that we sign a Van Dijk and a Keita, City and Utd will massively outspend us making reinforcements of their own.

None of that changes the fact that Klopp is a brilliant man-manager, we play thrilling football with him in charge, we've made some absolutely fantastic signings each summer since he arrived. Overall we're progressing as a team with him in charge, and he's a top guy. I really hope he sees out his current long-term contract, and that fans are patient with him.

[SerbianScouser]

There was a period of 18 minutes between their first goal and their second goal. The opportunity was there to stick an extra man in midfield and look to regroup, but instead he was yelling at the fans.

Very bad case of revisionism this.

After the second goal Milner and Can came on and the last half hour we were quite comfortable until the last seconds when Klavan failed to connect with the ball properly. If he had connected properly we'd be now talking about manager addressing the situation on the pitch correctly and winning us points.

This is a manager who had an outstanding record against the top teams in this country losing only one single game in 21. Managers who are not outstanding tactically don't achieve this kind of records. (yes it deteriorated this season but only because it was unsustainable) He also reached a European cup final with a team that couldn't beat mighty Carlise over 120 mins of football.

The notion that he's not good tactically is absolute bollocks.

[KingKolo]

Very bad case of revisionism this.

After the second goal Milner and Can came on and the last half hour we were quite comfortable until the last seconds when Klavan failed to connect with the ball properly. If he had connected properly we'd be now talking about manager addressing the situation on the pitch correctly and winning us points.

This is a manager who had an outstanding record against the top teams in this country losing only one single game in 21. Managers who are not outstanding tactically don't achieve this kind of records. (yes it deteriorated this season but only because it was unsustainable) He also reached a European cup final with a team that couldn't beat mighty Carlise over 120 mins of football.

The notion that he's not good tactically is absolute bollocks.

You do realise I'm talking about the Europa Final, right? Not the other night.

Nah it's not mate. He has a really poor record in finals.

I'm not knocking him overall as our manager. I'd be absolutely gutted if he left. Reckon he's definitely the best we can do right now.
But compared to someone like Benitez, he's not in the same league tactically.

[lionel_messias]

You do realise I'm talking about the Europa Final, right? Not the other night.

Nah it's not mate. He has a really poor record in finals.

I'm not knocking him overall as our manager. I'd be absolutely gutted if he left. Reckon he's definitely the best we can do right now.
But compared to someone like Benitez, he's not in the same league tactically.

Hmm, yet both sit on Two League title wins each in their native leagues.

We can agree though that Rafa is exceptionally good at preparing a game-plan for one off Cup Finals and cup games.

Perhaps we can venture Klopp was unlucky against Man City in the League Cup Final and well beaten against a good Seville side in the Europa.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Henderson is worrying me ... It's possible we go into next season with a new starting midfield 3

[Klippity Klopp]

Henderson is worrying me ... It's possible we go into next season with a new starting midfield 3

Watch the game last weekend where he was boss.

More singling out of Henderson from mid week, in a game where the whole team were poor in that 2nd half.

Also re: These Henderson stats, they appear to be meaningless and not accurate:

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Watch the game last weekend where he was boss.

More singling out of Henderson from mid week, in a game where the whole team were poor in that 2nd half.

Also re: These Henderson stats, they appear to be meaningless and not accurate:

This makes more sense. As previously stated I believe it's not possible that a player at that level could make no tackles in a game.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Watch the game last weekend where he was boss.

More singling out of Henderson from mid week, in a game where the whole team were poor in that 2nd half.

Also re: These Henderson stats, they appear to be meaningless and not accurate:

The way the whole 'tackles won' stat is defined is confusing and obscure. Most only count a successful tackle, which means when a tackle is made and possession is regained. So if you tackle someone and it goes out for a throw in or corner it's not defined as successful.

You could make a great tackle on someone clean through on goal and the ball flies halfway down the pitch to an opposition defender and out of danger but it wouldn't count as a successful tackle.

OPTA defines it as;

A tackle is defined as where a player connects with the ball in ground challenge where he successfully takes the ball away from the man in possession. All tackles are really a successful event.

A Tackle Won is deemed to be where the tackler or one of his team-mates regains possession as a result of the challenge, or that the ball goes out of play and is "safe".

A Tackle Lost is where a tackle is made but the ball goes to an opposition player.

[sinnermichael]

The way the whole 'tackles won' stat is defined is confusing and obscure. Most only count a successful tackle, which means when a tackle is made and possession is regained. So if you tackle someone and it goes out for a throw in or corner it's not defined as successful.

You could make a great tackle on someone clean through on goal and the ball flies halfway down the pitch to an opposition defender and out of danger but it wouldn't count as a successful tackle.

OPTA defines it as;

Also, the best defensive midfielders might not have to make a tackle because they read the game so well.

[Gerry Attrick]

Also, the best defensive midfielders might not have to make a tackle because they read the game so well.

Fair point, but Henderson had one interception in the second half on Tuesday night. Not nearly good enough when we were under the cosh for most of it.

[Klippity Klopp]

Fair point, but Henderson had one interception in the second half on Tuesday night. Not nearly good enough when we were under the cosh for most of it.

I don't think anyone has said his performance was good enough.

But the stats being bounded around are just not fair (or accurate & seem very misleading) on him and nor was he alone in not being good enough.

The whole performance in that second half was poor.  Front front, to back.  In terms of our approach & our application.

[Gerry Attrick]

I don't think anyone has said his performance was good enough.

But the stats being bounded around are just not fair (or accurate & seem very misleading) on him and nor was he alone in not being good enough.

The whole performance in that second half was poor.  Front front, to back.  In terms of our approach & our application.

Absolutely agree, I made some posts in the full-time thread about our other starting midfielders too. Coutinho completed 9 passes in the game. 9 in just over an hour! Wijnaldum's pass percentage was the highest of our starting trio and he completed just 75% and that was well above Henderson and Coutinho. They were all very, very poor the other night to put it mildly.

[Klippity Klopp]

Absolutely agree, I made some posts in the full-time thread about our other starting midfielders too. Coutinho completed 9 passes in the game. 9 in just over an hour! Wijnaldum's pass percentage was the highest of our starting trio and he completed just 75% and that was well above Henderson and Coutinho. They were all very, very poor the other night to put it mildly.

I think a few times our midfield were trying to look for that 'hollywood pass' to Salah or Mane on the counter attack to kill the game.

Or a few times Henderson tried to put the ball into the space behind the opposition full back for Salah to chase. 

But the execution was poor.

We could have had Xabi Alonso in the team instead of Henderson.  He'd have kept the ball much better, maybe got more tackles or interceptions.  But he wouldn't have made the rest of the team keep the ball better.

I think it was a team problem, showing a lack of composure and 'know how' to deal with the highly aggressive bombardment from Seville.  Rather than any one or two individuals.

[princeoftherocks]

shitting yourself when we concede a goal doesn't help. i.e. taking off attacking players for defensive ones.    It just turns the game into defence v attack.....   and we're better at attacking, so it doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Coolie High]

I think a few times our midfield were trying to look for that 'hollywood pass' to Salah or Mane on the counter attack to kill the game.

Or a few times Henderson tried to put the ball into the space behind the opposition full back for Salah to chase. 

But the execution was poor.

We could have had Xabi Alonso in the team instead of Henderson.  He'd have kept the ball much better, maybe got more tackles or interceptions.  But he wouldn't have made the rest of the team keep the ball better.

I think it was a team problem, showing a lack of composure and 'know how' to deal with the highly aggressive bombardment from Seville.  Rather than any one or two individuals.

You don't think so? I think his passing and composure would influence the whole team.

[Klippity Klopp]

You don't think so? I think his passing and composure would influence the whole team.

I think it would help.

But he can't make the others have composure too.

Wasn't just Henderson who lacked some composure, the whole midfield did, actually the whole team did!

It's a team game and I don' think one player would suddenly make our whole team suddenly keep the ball better. 

[SA800]

You do realise I'm talking about the Europa Final, right? Not the other night.

Nah it's not mate. He has a really poor record in finals.

I'm not knocking him overall as our manager. I'd be absolutely gutted if he left. Reckon he's definitely the best we can do right now.
But compared to someone like Benitez, he's not in the same league tactically.

Nonsense, he is one of the most astute managers in the game.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

I've been impressed with Robertson everytime he got the chance. Moreno is a liability - he has that self-destruction red button in him, and you never know when he's going to activate it. No matter of his good form in some of previous games, i refuse to get carried away. Play Robertson and stop messing around.

[Curtisinho]

I've been impressed with Robertson everytime he got the chance. Moreno is a liability - he has that self-destruction red button in him, and you never know when he's going to activate it. No matter of his good form in some of previous games, i refuse to get carried away. Play Robertson and stop messing around.

Yep.

Even Moreno's 'improvement' has been largely overstated. He looks a lot better compared to the dumpster fire he was in previous seasons but Robertson has still looked better, and more assured, in every appearance he's had for us (admittedly small sample). Moreno is not good enough, and when he goes off the rails he costs us games. It's madness to me that guys like Robertson and Ox haven't had more looks after some of their impressive displays, but what do I know?

[shader]

The move by Klopp to bring on Can and Milner saved us.  It almost won us the game until the old last minute corner reared it’s ugly head again. 

[rawcusk8]

Pretty damning article on TIA, not sure I agree with all of it but some parts even the staunchest of our fans will admit to. Heres the link if anyone is interested in giving it a read -
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/11/liverpool-fc-worrying-acceptance-mediocrity/

[Giono]

Watch the game last weekend where he was boss.

More singling out of Henderson from mid week, in a game where the whole team were poor in that 2nd half.

Also re: These Henderson stats, they appear to be meaningless and not accurate:

Mid point last season it was all about his stats. Now they are to be ignored?