Topic: Adam Lallana

[ScottScott]

What is the alternative for Klopp? He's not going to come out and say any player isn't good enough. And who would he play in Lallana's place at the moment? Allen, who is essentially just a smaller, slower, weaker, less technically gifted, even less efficient attacking player? Ibe, the 20 year old in the midst of what can only be described as a horror season? Ojo? Teixeira?

I don't think Lallana is good enough to be a regular starter for a side with title (or even top 4) aspirations, but I don't think anyone has a problem with him starting at this point, given the lack of alternatives. Ultimately he will be replaced. He's too slow and too wasteful not to be replaced. But until then, I don't think Klopp playing him is an indication of anything other than a lack of real quality in our squad at the position he occupies.

He could play a number of players, 3 who you've listed there. Milner, Allen, Ojo, Ibe, Origi, Tex could have all played there this season (some of these players people have laughably wanted in place of Lallana). I don't understand what people want from him? He works harder than anyone in the front 4 and still puts up decent numbers whilst doing so. He could have a couple more goals and assists, like anyone of them could, but what he does is more than that. I think people might be disappointed come next season when we bring Gotze or someone in and Lallana still plays most games. In a pressing system do you not want someone who constantly presses from the front (something that Sturridge and Coutinho don't do (Coutinho does press but has lapses))?

[Yorkykopite]

I am not mystified nor irritated with Klopp`s faith in Lallana. My gripe is not about Lallana being picked but with the area of the field he`s been asked to play in. My theory is that Lallana would be much better suited to a midfield 3 - a Iniesta role if you will - because his superior technique can give us the edge in any one game, I`d love to see him in that area knitting the play and connecting our CM with our final third.

I feel slightly uncomfortable seeing Lallana or even Allen for that matter spending too much time in opposition box and getting on the end of chances because I don`t think finishing comes natural to them nor do I think they can reach the level of ruthlessness you`d like to see from Liverpool players in the final third.

I think this conversation will be more apt this time next season once Klopp had the chance to bring the likes of Gotze or whoever he plans to bring in and if he still keeps picking Lallana in that front 4 then we better be much better placed than 8th as Lallana is not producing nearly enough in terms of numbers to other 3 guys in our front 4 right now.

Fair enough. My guess is that Lallana will remain a key player for Klopp regardless of who he brings in next season. It's the combination of high technique, ferocious running and sense of responsibility (he always wants the ball) that the coach finds attractive. He could score more I agree. Indeed he could shoot more.  But he's a devil to mark and carves out space for others high up the field better than anyone else in the team.

Made a few changes especially for you Yorky? We know for almost certain the answer to 1/ is 'yes' as the evidence is well documented inside the walls of this very forum. So the answer to 2/ must be...

Of course I'm vulnerable to that charge. But I wasn't mystified by Rafa's selection of Kuyt. I understood it - eventually at least - to be the sign of a coach who feared going full throttle. He's the obverse of Klopp in that sense. Klopp thinks positively. Can you imagine Rafa playing Coutinho, Lallana, and Firmino in the same side (or even two of them in the same side?). I don't think so.

[Weytske]

Fair enough. My guess is that Lallana will remain a key player for Klopp regardless of who he brings in next season. It's the combination of high technique, ferocious running and sense of responsibility (he always wants the ball) that the coach finds attractive. He could score more I agree. Indeed he could shoot more.  But he's a devil to mark and carves out space for others high up the field better than anyone else in the team.

Of course I'm vulnerable to that charge. But I wasn't mystified by Rafa's selection of Kuyt. I understood it - eventually at least - to be the sign of a coach who feared going full throttle. He's the obverse of Klopp in that sense. Klopp thinks positively. Can you imagine Rafa playing Coutinho, Lallana, and Firmino in the same side (or even two of them in the same side?). I don't think so.

Actually I'm really intrigued about what Klopp's decisions will be next year. Lallana indeed fits right into Klopp's pressing game but still lacks a bit of output in terms of goals and assists I think. On the other hand you have a player like Sturridge who doesn't really press as well and creates space for others but does offer a killer instinct in front of goal.

To extend the Kuyt comparison, I think Lallana doesn't even have to up his goal tally really but if he just knocks them in on crucial times like Dirk could, that'll do for me.

[plura]

Actually I'm really intrigued about what Klopp's decisions will be next year. Lallana indeed fits right into Klopp's pressing game but still lacks a bit of output in terms of goals and assists I think. On the other hand you have a player like Sturridge who doesn't really press as well and creates space for others but does offer a killer instinct in front of goal.

To extend the Kuyt comparison, I think Lallana doesn't even have to up his goal tally really but if he just knocks them in on crucial times like Dirk could, that'll do for me.

Lallana will be our Gotze tonight, well his winning goal tonight will just sealed our historic win!

[Schmidt]

Why is Kuyt the go to comparison when talking about hardworking players who don't quite score enough? He got into double figures nearly every season, despite spending at least a few seasons playing out wide and doing a lot of defending every game. Players like Lallana don't have anything like the goal-scoring nous that Kuyt had.

[SerbianScouser]

I don't understand what people want from him?

He can`t give us more, he`s doing a great job however if we win tonight we better start thinking of potentially improving and reaching the next level in order to compete better with those teams.

My personal preference would be having somebody instead of Lallana who can really strike fear into opposition full-backs/defenders and improve our fear factor. The profile of the player I`m thinking of is for example - a peak Robben/Ben Arfa - profile of the players who would address the lack of balance in our front 4 because right now we desperately need a good dribbler who can beat people and create space that way. If we were to get that kind of player there would probably be discussions on who`d get benched and I have to admit I find it adorable that people would think it would be one of the two brazilians.

[ScottScott]

He can`t give us more, he`s doing a great job however if we win tonight we better start thinking of potentially improving and reaching the next level in order to compete better with those teams.

My personal preference would be having somebody instead of Lallana who can really strike fear into opposition full-backs/defenders and improve our fear factor. The profile of the player I`m thinking of is for example - a peak Robben/Ben Arfa - profile of the players who would address the lack of balance in our front 4 because right now we desperately need a good dribbler who can beat people and create space that way. If we were to get that kind of player there would probably be discussions on who`d get benched and I have to admit I find it adorable that people would think it would be one of the two brazilians.

No offence but I'm going to stop listening to you now 

[-HH-]

Why is Kuyt the go to comparison when talking about hardworking players who don't quite score enough? He got into double figures nearly every season, despite spending at least a few seasons playing out wide and doing a lot of defending every game. Players like Lallana don't have anything like the goal-scoring nous that Kuyt had.

He's not, he's the go to comparison for people trying to wind Yorky up.

[thisyearisouryear]

He can`t give us more, he`s doing a great job however if we win tonight we better start thinking of potentially improving and reaching the next level in order to compete better with those teams.

My personal preference would be having somebody instead of Lallana who can really strike fear into opposition full-backs/defenders and improve our fear factor. The profile of the player I`m thinking of is for example - a peak Robben/Ben Arfa - profile of the players who would address the lack of balance in our front 4 because right now we desperately need a good dribbler who can beat people and create space that way. If we were to get that kind of player there would probably be discussions on who`d get benched and I have to admit I find it adorable that people would think it would be one of the two brazilians.

I am sorry but I thought those two are especially Lallana's strength. Good ball control/dribble and movement to create space for others. It is the end product in terms of actual assists and goals that is lacking.

[Funky_Gibbons]

I am sorry but I thought those two are especially Lallana's strength. Good ball control/dribble and movement to create space for others. It is the end product in terms of actual assists and goals that is lacking.

Since the turn of the year when our form has really picked up under Klopp and we've been leading scorers, Lallana has contributed quite well:

So Lallana hasn’t contributed to the better attacking form since January but Milner, Origi, Firmino, Coutinho and Sturridge have? How did you work that out then?

Since January 1st

        Goals   assists   total
Firmino            9          4        13
Coutinho          3          2         5
Origi                 4          1         5
Milner               3          8        11
Sturridge          6          1         7
Lallana             4          3         7

Lallana just created a clear-cut chance for Sturridge - he's created 8 in the PL this season, only Firmino & Coutinho (9) have more for LFC

[thisyearisouryear]

Since the turn of the year when our form has really picked up under Klopp and we've been leading scorers, Lallana has contributed quite well:

So there you go. Even that is not an issues now 

[gerrardisgod]

Gonna be his night, always back him first goal. But I really fancy him tonight, first goal or not.

[lgvkarlos]

If Lallana could score he would be a £50n player,  he really has everything apart from that. He really has improved under Klopp.

[Easy]

If Lallana could score he would be a £50n player,  he really has everything apart from that. He really has improved under Klopp.

...and if my uncle had a fanny he'd be my aunt.

[lgvkarlos]

...and if my uncle had a fanny he'd be my aunt.

He's got the technique it must be a mental thing.
I think Klopp will work with him. 

[Ken-Obi]

Another strange notion that - improved under Klopp - like he was only marginally better than Lovren. He has always been a player at that level but massively underrated here because of the transfer fee and one other factor the would infuriate some on here if mentioned. If anything Klopp gave him the focus and freedom to express himself in accordance to that focus.

[Lodo-Vicus]

He kinda reminds me of Beardsley for some reason, if only he could score and assist more. Good work ethic so hopefully he can get better but I think Klopp has established Lallana's current position as one of the weak links in the team hence Mane rumors.

[Yiannis]

His qualities are there to see. He hasn't made me change my opinion of him as much as Lovren did but he has done good or very good at times. Of course when you play in such position(s) you need your attacker to score some and he doesn't and this will always leave a 'what if' feeling.

[gray19lfc]

Good player but doesn't have the output of a very good attacking midfielder unfortunately.  He's 28 too, I always think people assume he's a lot younger.  This is probably as good as he's ever going to be.

[CraigDS]

If he could just put that round thing between those white things a little more often...

Has a lovely touch though, and his all round game is pretty good, very good even.

[lessthanmatt]

Lots of good stuff from him yesterday and fantastic work rate. I'm surprised to see so many people slating him on social media and so on. I guess those are the people who already made their mind up before the game was played

[BeautifulGame91]

For an attacking midfielder his goal scoring record is woeful .And keeps missing easy chances as well.

Not really a surprise if people are disappointed with him

[deFacto please, you bastards]

He's lovely on the ball and I thought he would do a lot better here than he did [end product wise]. He has to score more.

[...]

He was a class above in that first half last night, phenomenal. Sure, he doesn't score a lot but he's not that kind of player, he makes up for it with his workrate and ability on the ball.

[jets red 44]

Thought he played a very good game yesterday....very good...wish he had a bit more help rather than Kane and Sterling who i thought played dreadful....

[AaronSingh25]

His improvement from that first miserable season he had with us, is there for all to see. Better work rate, more direct, and getting into scoring positions - rather than making a nice pass then stroking his hair in admiration for a minute.

He'd make a good squad player next season, but with us not having an open cheque book - if a big offer came in for him (and looking at his age, how much is he going to improve, etc) the club might be tempted to cash in and look for a massive trade up.

[DerbyKopite]

Good squad option but he's not a traditional front 3 player for me. A lad playing right side of a 3 needs to be scoring 15-20 goals a season, and he simply doesn't have the numbers. He's a midfielder, not a forward. Almost reminds me of Iniesta but just not with the same class.

[Lone Star Red]

Good squad option but he's not a traditional front 3 player for me. A lad playing right side of a 3 needs to be scoring 15-20 goals a season, and he simply doesn't have the numbers. He's a midfielder, not a forward. Almost reminds me of Iniesta but just not with the same class.

Just curious, how many right forwards in the PL scored 15-20 goals last season?

[AaronSingh25]

Just curious, how many right forwards in the PL scored 15-20 goals last season?

But if you look at wide forwards - and the goals you need, you can't possiby defend Lallana's goal return. If you look at wide/forwards and their contributions (2015/16 Premier league only games) :

Mahrez 17 goals.
André Ayew 12 goals.
Sadio Mané 11 goals.
Anthony Martial 11 goals.
Gylfi Sigurdsson 11 goal
Dimitri Payet 10 goals.


Lallana only has 4 goals. Now agreed, his game isn't just about scoring, but rather creating goals (his assists ratio isn't up there either) but you can't deny his goal scoring return from a wide/foward are very poor. Sadio Mane, a player we are rumoured to be after has 25 goals in 75 Southampton - 1 in 3. That's the type of ratio you ideally want.

[CraigDS]

Good squad option but he's not a traditional front 3 player for me. A lad playing right side of a 3 needs to be scoring 15-20 goals a season, and he simply doesn't have the numbers. He's a midfielder, not a forward. Almost reminds me of Iniesta but just not with the same class.

15-20 is massively pushing it, but he needs to score more than he does.

[DerbyKopite]

15-20 is massively pushing it, but he needs to score more than he does.

It depends how you look at the team.

Lets say we play 4231 or 433. You want 20-25 from your striker and then about 15-20 from the lad playing behind - think Gerrard/Torres, or Lampard/Drogba.

If you're not getting goals from you midfield, lets face it Can & Henderson don't score. If Lallana is predominantly playing as a Forward, he needs more numbers. I'm not saying he's shit, he's actually a very very good player, he's just not a forward. Imagine a scenario when Lallana has the ball, with 3 lads ahead of him, I'd like that. The problem is, he is often our furthest man forward.

[CraigDS]

It depends how you look at the team.

Lets say we play 4231 or 433. You want 20-25 from your striker and then about 15-20 from the lad playing behind - think Gerrard/Torres, or Lampard/Drogba.

If you're not getting goals from you midfield, lets face it Can & Henderson don't score. If Lallana is predominantly playing as a Forward, he needs more numbers. I'm not saying he's shit, he's actually a very very good player, he's just not a forward. Imagine a scenario when Lallana has the ball, with 3 lads ahead of him, I'd like that. The problem is, he is often our furthest man forward.

If you look at City and Spurs, the two highest scoring sides in the league last year...

Spurs had Kane scoring 25, then the next highest scorer was one 10, then the 3rd on 6.

City had Aguero on 24, then Iheanacho on 8 and De Bruyne on 7.


I think it's massively unrealistic to expect anyone who is not an out and out striker to score 15+ goals.

[killer-heels]

He has done ok for us but even last season i was expecting more of the stuff he produced at Southampton. Decent squad player but not one you wouldnt fight to keep.

[DerbyKopite]

If you look at City and Spurs, the two highest scoring sides in the league last year...

Spurs had Kane scoring 25, then the next highest scorer was one 10, then the 3rd on 6.

City had Aguero on 24, then Iheanacho on 8 and De Bruyne on 7.


I think it's massively unrealistic to expect anyone who is not an out and out striker to score 15+ goals.

Spurs built their title run based on their defence not their attack.

Manchester City a few years ago had Aguero & Dzeko both scoring 20 +

We had Sturridge & Suarez scoring 20 +

Chelsea with Hazard & Costa

Leicester with Vardy & Mahrez.

If you're playing a system with 3 lads up front, don't expect to finish any higher than 8th if two of your 3 attackers can't score more than 15 goals in all comps.

Coutinho & lallana aren't fowards, they're midfielders. That's the point I'm making. Lallana is a good option, but he shouldn't be in our front 3. He's got good control, retains it well, but he doesn't score often enough to justify starting there.

Put Sturridge up front, with Origi one side, and a lad with numbers the other and we'll be in business.

[AaronSingh25]

If you look at City and Spurs, the two highest scoring sides in the league last year...

Spurs had Kane scoring 25, then the next highest scorer was one 10, then the 3rd on 6.

City had Aguero on 24, then Iheanacho on 8 and De Bruyne on 7.


I think it's massively unrealistic to expect anyone who is not an out and out striker to score 15+ goals.

That's one of the reason why neither won the league. Leicester did ... and Mahrez scored 17 goals from out wide to accompany Vardy's goals. The season before that Chelsea won with Hazard scoring 14 goals to accompany Costa's goals.

If you are happy with mid table positions, then you are quite content to say 4 goals is okay enough for a right sided forward. If you have higher aspirations, ie go for the league, you need more.

[lgvkarlos]

His ability to win the ball back high up the pitch is up there with the best, his first touch control and distribution are also a strength. He really is a Klopp type of player, I bet he's  hoping he could get him to be more productive on the goal front. Seems to have a good attitude and be a nice guy. Would love to see him succeed for us.

[CraigDS]

If you are happy with mid table positions, then you are quite content to say 4 goals is okay enough for a right sided forward. If you have higher aspirations, ie go for the league, you need more.

15-20 is massively pushing it, but he needs to score more than he does.

[Xabi Gerrard]

That's one of the reason why neither won the league. Leicester did ... and Mahrez scored 17 goals from out wide to accompany Vardy's goals. The season before that Chelsea won with Hazard scoring 14 goals to accompany Costa's goals.

If you are happy with mid table positions, then you are quite content to say 4 goals is okay enough for a right sided forward. If you have higher aspirations, ie go for the league, you need more.

Nonsense. Plenty of title winning teams have low scoring attackers;

Okazaki scored 5 league goals from centre forward last season.

Willian got 2 and Oscar got 6 playing in similar positions to Lallana when Chelsea won in 14/15.

Even Bergkamp only managed 4 when Arsenal went the season unbeaten.

We definitely need more goals across the team, but to suggest that a right sided forward scoring only 4 goals means you'll finish midtable is just wrong. As long as the player is fulfilling the job required for the team to be successful (as all the aforementioned examples did) then they're good enough.

[wemmick]

I hope England go out of the Euros quickly so Lallana can have a long preseason with Klopp. If Klopp can help him learn to control his positioning and the timing of his runs with the ball a bit more, so he doesn't dribble into blind alleys, or doesn't let the defense reset while he twists and turns on the touchline, or doesn't miss the early pass because he is not in favorable position to make it, I think his production and consistency will improve dramatically. Watching Kuba yesterday reminded me of just how good Klopp-trained wingers are at being in the right place at the right time, whether they are traditional wingers or not.

I think Coutinho is in the same place, too. Better positioning and timing will help him iron out the inconsistencies in is wing play. So glad he will get something close to a full preseason with Klopp.     

[markmywords]

Nonsense. Plenty of title winning teams have low scoring attackers;

Okazaki scored 5 league goals from centre forward last season.

Willian got 2 and Oscar got 6 playing in similar positions to Lallana when Chelsea won in 14/15.

Even Bergkamp only managed 4 when Arsenal went the season unbeaten.

We definitely need more goals across the team, but to suggest that a right sided forward scoring only 4 goals means you'll finish midtable is just wrong. As long as the player is fulfilling the job required for the team to be successful (as all the aforementioned examples did) then they're good enough.

Good point

Problem is Pires and henry got 40+ PL gls that year, as did Costa and Hazard and vardy and mahrez

IF we have about 2 players that can get 40+ between them, then we can afford a lallana 'doing his job'

If we don't have 2 prolific players in the 11 (and I don't think we do), then we need everyone chipping in properly