Poll

Are Vegans

Good at sport
13 (48.1%)
Not good at sport
14 (51.9%)

Total Members Voted: 27

Voting closed: July 13, 2021, 02:58:23 pm

Author Topic: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say  (Read 13356 times)

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #280 on: September 15, 2021, 10:52:54 am »
I to and fro with vegetarianism/veganism, or even being a flexiterian.

At the moment I eat meat every single day - sometimes it's just chicken on a sandwich, other days it could be a full English, then more meat later. The reality is, I view myself as environmentally conscious, but can I continue to eat as much meat as I do and be concerned about the environment? Probably not.

I've moved to my parents' gaff to save a few bob before buying my first home. Moving out next month and then I'll have far more control over my diet, hoping from then I'll make some conscious changes (also cutting down drastically on beer). The main thing would be cutting down on processed food like bred, sausages, etc.

I don't think it's about giving up X or Y, it's about having it less and making more sustainable choices. However, I'm not sure I'd be able to cut out milk - I drink too much tea. Any decent milk alternatives out there for tea?
We've had all kinds of milk substitutes over the last couple of years. Oat milk, Almond milk. My daughter likes them, but I think they're shite, have quite a few negative environmental impacts, and are cynically marketed at Gen Z and looking to ride the vegan wave.
A cup ot tea with oatmilk looks like one with powdered milk added. Try tea with lemon, or try mint tea. Alternatively just have your tea as you like it, because I'm not sure the alternatives are better ethically and environmentally.

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #281 on: September 15, 2021, 10:53:48 am »
All milk alternatives taste like shite IMO. My gf drinks soy milk quite often so tried it plenty and it’s just rank.
You beat me to it  ;D

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #282 on: September 15, 2021, 10:56:03 am »
What about UHT milk? Is there a demand for that?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Online Elmo!

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #283 on: September 15, 2021, 10:59:38 am »
But you can't force your beliefs on other people like far too many vegans try to do.

I'm all for eating less meat and having those animals that are eaten treated better, free range rather than battery, but I'll never go the whole not use anything animal based. I do genuinely wonder about this, say we all went vegan, then we are going to need the land that animals graze on to grow the food, so what do we do with the animals? Vegans won't kill them/control them but if allowed to breed unchecked then before you know it you are overrun with them, they are eating all the crops (Australia and the rabbits for example) or they have to be culled (Belgium and Wild Boar and swine fever). Pigs, cattle, sheep, chickens, we won't need them, so do we just exterminate them all?

That's a completely ifferent argument and irrelevant to what I said though.

I think there is also a lot of confirmation bias with this "vegans telling you they are vegan thing".

The thing about vegans that don't tell you is... that they don't tell you so you don't know.

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #284 on: September 15, 2021, 10:59:47 am »
What about UHT milk? Is there a demand for that?

Not sure there are any ethical benefits to that over normal milk.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #285 on: September 15, 2021, 11:00:26 am »
That's a completely ifferent argument and irrelevant to what I said though.

I think there is also a lot of confirmation bias with this "vegans telling you they are vegan thing".

The thing about vegans that don't tell you is... that they don't tell you so you don't know.

Until you invite them round and offer them a lovely juicy burger on the bbq though...

Online Elmo!

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #286 on: September 15, 2021, 11:00:56 am »
Until you invite them round and offer them a lovely juicy burger on the bbq though...

Well they're a bit stupid if they don't tell you then.  ;D

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #287 on: September 15, 2021, 11:01:08 am »
We've had all kinds of milk substitutes over the last couple of years. Oat milk, Almond milk. My daughter likes them, but I think they're shite, have quite a few negative environmental impacts, and are cynically marketed at Gen Z and looking to ride the vegan wave.
A cup ot tea with oatmilk looks like one with powdered milk added. Try tea with lemon, or try mint tea. Alternatively just have your tea as you like it, because I'm not sure the alternatives are better ethically and environmentally.




Climate change: Which vegan milk is best?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 11:06:37 am by Red-Soldier »

Online BarryCrocker

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #288 on: September 15, 2021, 11:05:23 am »



Climate change: Which vegan milk is best?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042

Just drink black coffee. Milk is for cheese.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #289 on: September 15, 2021, 11:38:53 am »
All milk alternatives taste like shite IMO. My gf drinks soy milk quite often so tried it plenty and it’s just rank.

Put oat milk in my coffee this morning and its rank - might as well drink it black. The Oat milk in porridge is ok ish
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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #290 on: September 15, 2021, 11:46:32 am »
A simple question for vegans - if the best way of feeding the planet included insect protein and high-yield GMO cereals would you abandon veganism?

Insects are high in protein and contain B12 and other nutrients meaning artificial supplements wouldn't be needed.

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Online Elmo!

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #291 on: September 15, 2021, 11:56:21 am »
A simple question for vegans - if the best way of feeding the planet included insect protein and high-yield GMO cereals would you abandon veganism?

Insects are high in protein and contain B12 and other nutrients meaning artificial supplements wouldn't be needed.

That's going to really depend on the reason for being vegan, but you could ask the exact same question of meat eaters - would you abandon traditional meat sources in this scenario?

NOt a vegan myself so can't answer your question directly.

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #292 on: September 15, 2021, 12:14:31 pm »



Climate change: Which vegan milk is best?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042
I'd like to see the methodology and assumptions for that and who was behind the research.
I'm not going to argue the point that cows produce methane, but I'd like to see what is included in the Co2 calcs for the alternatives.
Land use is presented as a negative, but UK dairy herds are often moved around fields to fit around crop rotation, so there's not an obvious opportunity cost to having cattle on the land. It's not as if grazing land can be used for too many other things either. I'd like to know more about the water calcs too. There must be a difference between water use in countries like the UK and drier areas.
There's lot's of money in milk alternatives. I know Oatly is looking at an IPO with valuations of around £10bn being bandied about so there's plenty of incentive to have research done the anti dairy argument.

Overall, there's no doubt in my mind that we need to eat less meat and by extension rear fewer animals. I also believe we should not be transporting food over huge distances.

If we follow the money and ignore the ethical arguments for a sec, the alternative milk industry could be described as a disruptor to the dairy industry because there's plenty of money to be made by persuading people that dairy bad, alternatives good.

It's never as simple as that, besides as someone touched on above, you don't get cheese from oatmilk  :D

Offline Komic

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #293 on: September 15, 2021, 12:49:05 pm »
Put oat milk in my coffee this morning and its rank - might as well drink it black. The Oat milk in porridge is ok ish

You can get barista oat milk now, i know normal cow milk drinkers who prefer oat milk in their coffee now. Dont drink coffee so cant say but when Ive had oat milk in cereal its the best of the vegan milks.

Online Red-Soldier

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #294 on: September 15, 2021, 12:53:54 pm »
I'd like to see the methodology and assumptions for that and who was behind the research.
I'm not going to argue the point that cows produce methane, but I'd like to see what is included in the Co2 calcs for the alternatives.
Land use is presented as a negative, but UK dairy herds are often moved around fields to fit around crop rotation, so there's not an obvious opportunity cost to having cattle on the land. It's not as if grazing land can be used for too many other things either. I'd like to know more about the water calcs too. There must be a difference between water use in countries like the UK and drier areas.
There's lot's of money in milk alternatives. I know Oatly is looking at an IPO with valuations of around £10bn being bandied about so there's plenty of incentive to have research done the anti dairy argument.

Overall, there's no doubt in my mind that we need to eat less meat and by extension rear fewer animals. I also believe we should not be transporting food over huge distances.

If we follow the money and ignore the ethical arguments for a sec, the alternative milk industry could be described as a disruptor to the dairy industry because there's plenty of money to be made by persuading people that dairy bad, alternatives good.

It's never as simple as that, besides as someone touched on above, you don't get cheese from oatmilk  :D

Wow!!!!  Where to begin????  So much wrong with this post!!  To paraphrase your words: "Meat/Dairy industry good and plant-based sector bad."  You don't really have a good understanding of what you're talking about.

Have you any idea how rich and powerful the meat/dairy industry is, and how much they lobby governments??  As you say, "if you follow the money", you'll find out.....

Who do you think is responsible for most of the deforestation in the Amazon?

You might be happy to ignore the ethics, but I am not.


Paper where the BBC figure was taken from:

https://josephpoore.com/Science%20360%206392%20987%20-%20Accepted%20Manuscript.pdf



Here's some information on water usage:


The hidden water resource use behind meat and dairy

    "The consumption of animal products contributes to more than one-quarter of the water footprint of humanity. The water needed to produce feed is the major factor behind the water footprint of animal products. Reviewing feed composition and the origin of feed ingredients is essential to find ways to reduce the water footprint of meat and dairy.

    The water footprint of any animal product is larger than the water footprint of a wisely chosen crop product with equivalent nutritional value.

    In industrialized countries, moving toward a vegetarian diet can reduce the food-related water footprint of people by 36%.

    Reducing the water footprint of meat and dairy requires an international approach and product transparency along the full supply chain of animal products."

"The global water footprint of animal production amounts to 2,422 billion m3/year (87% green, 6% blue, 7% gray). One-third of this total is related to beef cattle, and another 19% is related to dairy cattle (Mekonnen and Hoekstra, 2010). The largest fraction (98%) of the water footprint of animal products refers to the water footprint of the feed for the animals. Drinking water for the animals, service water, and feed mixing water account for 1.1, 0.8, and 0.03%, respectively"


https://academic.oup.com/af/article/2/2/3/4638610?login=true
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 01:28:14 pm by Red-Soldier »

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #295 on: September 15, 2021, 01:28:09 pm »
Wow!!!!  Where to begin????  So much wrong with this post!!  To paraphrase your words: "Meat/Dairy industry good and plant-based sector bad."  You don't really have a good understanding of what you're talking about.

Have you any idea how rich and powerful the meat/diary industry is, and how much they lobby governments??  As you say, "if you follow the money", you'll find out.....

Who do you think is responsible for most of the deforestation in the Amazon?

You might be happy to ignore the ethics, but I am not.
I think it's really funny when people don't read posts properly and just respond based on what they think they've read.
For a start, my post above doesn't mention the meat industry and my previous posts in the thread have been clear that we should all be eating less meat.

What I actually said was that disruptors - and that's what the likes of Oatly are - are trying to persuade people that dairy = bad and alternatives = good*. And that they may well use sponsored research to help their cause. My point was it is rarely that clear cut and it would be good to see how the research you quoted was undertaken.

If you're going to go off on one; "so much wrong with this post" "you don't really have an understanding of what you're talking about". it would help your cause if you showed that you'd actually understood what had been written. You've also made some huge leaps by assuming you fully understand my ethical stance.

*If you don't believe me, there's an advert, not sure if it's Oatly or not that's clearly aimed at a younger audience that draws an analogy with drinking cows milk and drinking alcohol. It's actually quite a good ad, but it shows how these companies are spending their ad pound on targeting those that are more likely to be persuaded, rather than trying to convert lifelong cows milk drinkers.

Offline Keita Success

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #296 on: September 15, 2021, 10:40:35 pm »
So the answer to my question is: milk is shite for the environment, but all the alternatives are shite?  ;D

Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #297 on: September 16, 2021, 08:28:56 am »
I've tried those alternatives, they are woeful, skimmed milk which is also dreadful is better than all of them.

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #298 on: September 16, 2021, 08:29:40 am »
So the answer to my question is: milk is shite for the environment, but all the alternatives are shite?  ;D

Oatmilk is probably your best bet for tea/coffee - buy some and give it a bash!

Soya milk just curdles and is no good.

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #299 on: September 16, 2021, 08:33:31 am »
The Raiders have moved their NFL franchise there from LA and they have some major Boxing matches too.

So I'd say on the whole not too bad.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #300 on: September 16, 2021, 08:58:49 am »
The Raiders have moved their NFL franchise there from LA and they have some major Boxing matches too.

So I'd say on the whole not too bad.

Are they vegan too?

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #301 on: September 16, 2021, 09:23:19 am »
What about UHT milk? Is there a demand for that?


No, cos it's shite
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #302 on: September 16, 2021, 10:12:52 am »
I've tried those alternatives, they are woeful, skimmed milk which is also dreadful is better than all of them.

Arla Bob (Best of Both Worlds) is pretty decent.

Here's a mad one, Milk is not covered under Transport ADR rules, (Hazardous Goods) but if a tanker or a truck carrying fuel crashes its a major incident as if the milk gets into the waterways it creates an environmental disaster as it breaks down and bacteria feeding on it consume all the oxygen which the lack of then kills all the fish
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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #303 on: September 16, 2021, 12:43:32 pm »
Are they vegan too?

Whatever happens in Vegan stays in Vegan...
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Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #304 on: September 16, 2021, 02:08:15 pm »


No, cos it's shite
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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #305 on: September 16, 2021, 02:24:57 pm »
Put oat milk in my coffee this morning and its rank - might as well drink it black. The Oat milk in porridge is ok ish
I have just water in porridge but oat milk in porridge is good too.

Oat and almond milk are rank in tea. Soya milk is the best one in my opinion. But you have to drink it while it is still really hot.

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #306 on: September 16, 2021, 02:26:30 pm »
A simple question for vegans - if the best way of feeding the planet included insect protein and high-yield GMO cereals would you abandon veganism?

Insects are high in protein and contain B12 and other nutrients meaning artificial supplements wouldn't be needed.
I would consider insects. The burgers and stuff you can make from them are pretty good.

Offline Jookie

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #307 on: September 16, 2021, 02:53:10 pm »
Oatmilk is probably your best bet for tea/coffee - buy some and give it a bash!


I personally wouldn't put oat milk in tea.

But I have, in recent years, moved to having oat milk in coffee and cereal. I think it works well in both. In terms of cereal I'm having it with some sort of muesli, granola, Country Crisp type cereal. Not sure how it'd taste on cornflakes or weetabix.

Only have a splash of cow's (skimmed) milk in tea now. Rest of the family still drink cow's milk and we go through about 18-20 pints a week. That's a reasonable reduction from when we were smashing 28-32 pints between us a week.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #308 on: September 16, 2021, 05:49:51 pm »
I have just water in porridge

Has got to be the most mundane food ever.

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #309 on: September 16, 2021, 06:29:51 pm »
Has got to be the most mundane food ever.

Yet, the most vital.

Pretty much all I've drunk since a child (discounting ale of course).  We looked at our piss samples at college - everyone was amazed at the clarity and the fact that it didn't smell like you could strip paint with it.

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #310 on: September 16, 2021, 06:52:25 pm »
Yet, the most vital.

Pretty much all I've drunk since a child (discounting ale of course).  We looked at our piss samples at college - everyone was amazed at the clarity and the fact that it didn't smell like you could strip paint with it.

Oh totally, but I'd rather have a glass of it or a bit of cordial in it than have porridge with water - it's just about bearable with milk!

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Re: Vegans in Sport - Have Your Say
« Reply #311 on: September 17, 2021, 05:03:50 pm »
The good old meat and potato pie sees off 72 Vegan pies to be crowned Supreme Champion in the British Pie Awards

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-58596733#:~:text=A%20meat%20and%20potato%20pie,bacon%20in%20Melton%20Mowbray%2C%20Leicestershire.
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