Author Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General  (Read 1298536 times)

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,328
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12560 on: September 19, 2021, 11:02:01 am »
Referee was beyond shite in the Liverpool v Palace game today.

I'm surprised that more people haven't pulled Madley or the first half lino (Palace attacking) up.

All sorts of stuff that can get glossed over on the telly (Not seen the TV replay yet, but will be watching LFCTV GO in a bit) - really does push home the difference between people that go and people that watch it on the telly - you miss more than half the game because you see what the director wants you to see.

That rugby tackle on Mane and the two-footed lunge later on when added to all the dubious 50/50s that were all going Palaces way built up and built quite an angry atmosphere at Anfield. Even people that don't usually moan about the ref were angry.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Dull Tools

  • Likes James Corden.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,376
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12561 on: September 21, 2021, 09:56:40 am »
Been meaning to ask, the other day in the Milan game there was an offside for Mane and I am confused about the rules.

I thought if a player in an offside position gets the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball then it is not considered offside.

Like the one with Lovren against Spurs a few years ago and there was a few last year where VAR zoomed in to see if a defender touched it which would make the player onside.

In the Milan game, a ball was played to Mane from Robbo (I think) and he was clearly in an offside position. He doesn't fight for the ball with the defender really but the defender panicked and headed the ball past their keeper. If the play had continued then Mane was through on goal. Surely this is the wrong call as the defender deliberately headed it which makes Mane then not offside as he is receiving it from a deliberate touch from the opposition?


Online Elzar

  • train station gate frustration - delia smith fan club founder ('ave it!)
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,070
  • Bam!
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12562 on: September 21, 2021, 10:10:26 am »
Been meaning to ask, the other day in the Milan game there was an offside for Mane and I am confused about the rules.

I thought if a player in an offside position gets the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball then it is not considered offside.

Like the one with Lovren against Spurs a few years ago and there was a few last year where VAR zoomed in to see if a defender touched it which would make the player onside.

In the Milan game, a ball was played to Mane from Robbo (I think) and he was clearly in an offside position. He doesn't fight for the ball with the defender really but the defender panicked and headed the ball past their keeper. If the play had continued then Mane was through on goal. Surely this is the wrong call as the defender deliberately headed it which makes Mane then not offside as he is receiving it from a deliberate touch from the opposition?



There was one like this in the Brentford (?) game at the weekend. The defender tried to clear it as it came through, miskicked it so it ran through to the offside Striker. It was called as the Striker was in an offside position when the ball was played through.

City and Spurs seem to be the only teams I can remember benefitting from the "player tried to play the ball" rule.
We already have shit in the country, and the game of Liverpool fills life with joy. Thanks

Offline rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,254
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12563 on: September 21, 2021, 10:29:49 am »
There was one like this in the Brentford (?) game at the weekend. The defender tried to clear it as it came through, miskicked it so it ran through to the offside Striker. It was called as the Striker was in an offside position when the ball was played through.

City and Spurs seem to be the only teams I can remember benefitting from the "player tried to play the ball" rule.

This goes against the Law. I remember kicking off like mad over the Spurs one and PoP (Phase of Play) took great pains to put me straight on the law and that once a player attempts to play the ball, its a new phase of play. Its not actually illegal to be in an offside position, so receiving a through ball from a teamate, where the ball has then come off an opponent that has deliberately played it, is fine.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Online Elzar

  • train station gate frustration - delia smith fan club founder ('ave it!)
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,070
  • Bam!
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12564 on: September 21, 2021, 01:17:45 pm »
This goes against the Law. I remember kicking off like mad over the Spurs one and PoP (Phase of Play) took great pains to put me straight on the law and that once a player attempts to play the ball, its a new phase of play. Its not actually illegal to be in an offside position, so receiving a through ball from a teamate, where the ball has then come off an opponent that has deliberately played it, is fine.

That's what I thought, as that is what we told for Kane a few years ago. But I keep seeing this rule interpreted differently by the referees.
We already have shit in the country, and the game of Liverpool fills life with joy. Thanks

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,701
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12565 on: September 21, 2021, 02:33:58 pm »
This goes against the Law. I remember kicking off like mad over the Spurs one and PoP (Phase of Play) took great pains to put me straight on the law and that once a player attempts to play the ball, its a new phase of play. Its not actually illegal to be in an offside position, so receiving a through ball from a teamate, where the ball has then come off an opponent that has deliberately played it, is fine.
I was thinking about that rule on the disallowed third Milan goal against us.  I was half-expecting Hendo's miskick to have nullified the offside and the goal to stand.  Clearly Hendo didn't meant to square the ball across his own six yard box but he did intend to kick it.  I'm guessing we were fine because the offside came in the pass before that during the short-corner routine?!

Anyway, a mate just showed me the disallowed Leicester goals.  I'd be mad as hell if we had the first disallowed and I think I'd be in hospital with a brain aneurism if we had the second disallowed.  What VAR saw to rule Barnes was obstructing the goalkeeper's view on the Ndidi header is beyond me.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 02:38:14 pm by thaddeus »

Offline Dr Stu-Pid

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 757
  • ******
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12566 on: September 21, 2021, 02:50:25 pm »
Anyway, a mate just showed me the disallowed Leicester goals.  I'd be mad as hell if we had the first disallowed and I think I'd be in hospital with a brain aneurism if we had the second disallowed.  What VAR saw to rule Barnes was obstructing the goalkeeper's view on the Ndidi header is beyond me.

I have zero issue with either of those goals being ruled out as Leicester were looking to gain an advantage by having Barnes interfere with the GK's position and either distract him or stop him getting a clear run at the ball.  Once you do that you run the risk of being given offside and the simple solution is not to do it in the first place rather than complaining when a goal is disallowed because your striker is standing in an offside position in the middle of the 6 yard box.   

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,701
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12567 on: September 21, 2021, 03:54:47 pm »
I have zero issue with either of those goals being ruled out as Leicester were looking to gain an advantage by having Barnes interfere with the GK's position and either distract him or stop him getting a clear run at the ball.  Once you do that you run the risk of being given offside and the simple solution is not to do it in the first place rather than complaining when a goal is disallowed because your striker is standing in an offside position in the middle of the 6 yard box.
I take your point about Barnes deliberately interfering with the goalkeeper when the corners were swung in and in some ways it is karma.  By the time the attempts were made on goal though he wasn't close enough to the goalkeeper to interfere with either his movement or his line of sight so he shouldn't have been offside.

If Barnes is over-stepping the mark with his interference then the referee should call it a foul and award a free-kick on that basis.

Offline Dr Stu-Pid

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 757
  • ******
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12568 on: September 21, 2021, 04:48:54 pm »
I take your point about Barnes deliberately interfering with the goalkeeper when the corners were swung in and in some ways it is karma.  By the time the attempts were made on goal though he wasn't close enough to the goalkeeper to interfere with either his movement or his line of sight so he shouldn't have been offside.

If Barnes is over-stepping the mark with his interference then the referee should call it a foul and award a free-kick on that basis.

He wasn't fouling the keeper so the referee cannot give a free kick, but he can be interfering with the keeper while in an offside position, which would then make him offside.  You shouldn't be able to stand in front of the keeper until just before contact and then suddenly move out of the way and claim that you weren't blocking his view.  If you want to do that then you have to make sure that you get back onside before contact, which Barnes did not.

Offline lamonti

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,442
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12569 on: September 21, 2021, 04:59:26 pm »
Dale Johnson had a lot to comment on about Martin Atkinson's performance in the WHU vs Man U game in his Monday VAR thread. (Chief among them that Wan-Bissaka getting a free kick for taking out Souček in the box is bananas).

He seems to think that the refs are missing stuff now as a consequence of trying to do things quickly ("let it flow") and trying to not over-watch replays and end up seeing stuff where there is no offence.

It beggars belief that kind of logic. Seriously if that is the case, and they literally cannot trust themselves with video replays, then just ditch the whole concept going forward.

Offline Dr Stu-Pid

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 757
  • ******
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12570 on: September 27, 2021, 12:12:41 pm »
He wasn't fouling the keeper so the referee cannot give a free kick, but he can be interfering with the keeper while in an offside position, which would then make him offside.  You shouldn't be able to stand in front of the keeper until just before contact and then suddenly move out of the way and claim that you weren't blocking his view.  If you want to do that then you have to make sure that you get back onside before contact, which Barnes did not.

We obviously don't care because it was against United, but I definitely felt that Villa's goal should have been disallowed for offside due to Watkins interfering with De Gea.  It was a carbon copy of the one that was disallowed for Leicester, so they definitely got one of them wrong, so yet again great consistency from VAR.

Online Barneylfc∗

  • Cross-dressing man-bag wielding golfer. Wannabe Mod. Coprophiliac. Would like to buy an airline seat if he could. Known 'grass'. Wants to go home to He-Man
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,610
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12571 on: September 27, 2021, 12:29:27 pm »
Anyone had an effort at justifying the VAR conclusion that Jota being dragged to the ground in the penalty area on Saturday was completely acceptable?
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,701
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12572 on: September 27, 2021, 01:01:24 pm »
We obviously don't care because it was against United, but I definitely felt that Villa's goal should have been disallowed for offside due to Watkins interfering with De Gea.  It was a carbon copy of the one that was disallowed for Leicester, so they definitely got one of them wrong, so yet again great consistency from VAR.
For me it was more of an offence than the two by Harvey Barnes.  Barnes was interfering with the goalkeeper but had stopped doing so by the time the attempt was made on goal (i.e. when he became offside).  From what I saw of the Villa goal Watkins was still arm locked with De Gea when the header was made.

As you say, I couldn't care less as a Liverpool fan.  It annoyed me no end last season though when rival fans pretended that VAR was fine-and-dandy every time it screwed us over just because they were happy it had screwed us over.

Offline BoRed

  • BoRing
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,808
  • BoRac
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12573 on: September 27, 2021, 03:53:13 pm »
For me it was more of an offence than the two by Harvey Barnes.  Barnes was interfering with the goalkeeper but had stopped doing so by the time the attempt was made on goal (i.e. when he became offside).  From what I saw of the Villa goal Watkins was still arm locked with De Gea when the header was made.

I don't think so (and not just because it was Utd ;)). When the header was made, Watkins wasn't in De Gea's line of sight, I think that's what made the difference. I don't remember the Barnes incident, but they probably decided he was between the keeper and the ball.

Either way, if they had been physically interfering with the keeper, the decision would be a foul, and not offside. For an offside decision, it's about the line of sight.

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

  • Not so pleasant non-upholstered footer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,676
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12574 on: September 27, 2021, 03:55:17 pm »
I don't think so (and not just because it was Utd ;)). When the header was made, Watkins wasn't in De Gea's line of sight, I think that's what made the difference. I don't remember the Barnes incident, but they probably decided he was between the keeper and the ball.

Either way, if they had been physically interfering with the keeper, the decision would be a foul, and not offside. For an offside decision, it's about the line of sight.

For the 2nd Leicester goal, it wasn't that Barnes was in the line of the ball but rather that he was stood where Sanchez would have had to dive to save the shot. This wasn't the case for Villa's goal as the header went to the near post.
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

Offline Dr Stu-Pid

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 757
  • ******
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12575 on: September 27, 2021, 04:50:36 pm »
This is the image just after the Villa player makes contact with the ball:



How can you be reaching out and touching the goalkeeper in an offside position and not be considered to be interfering with play?

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

  • Not so pleasant non-upholstered footer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,676
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12576 on: September 27, 2021, 04:56:11 pm »
Also worth remembering that the goals for Leicester were given as offside on the field, whereas that wasn't the case for Villa's goal. Reverse that and you're probably in a situation where Villa's goal is disallowed and Leicester's goals stand.
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

Offline Paisley79

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12577 on: September 27, 2021, 07:34:05 pm »
Anyone had an effort at justifying the VAR conclusion that Jota being dragged to the ground in the penalty area on Saturday was completely acceptable?

I still can't quite get my head around how that wasn't given

Online 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,755
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12578 on: September 27, 2021, 07:50:51 pm »
Anyone had an effort at justifying the VAR conclusion that Jota being dragged to the ground in the penalty area on Saturday was completely acceptable?

We had our one VAR overturn with Mo's goal ruled onside.
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline lamonti

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,442
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12579 on: September 28, 2021, 08:35:13 am »
We obviously don't care because it was against United, but I definitely felt that Villa's goal should have been disallowed for offside due to Watkins interfering with De Gea.  It was a carbon copy of the one that was disallowed for Leicester, so they definitely got one of them wrong, so yet again great consistency from VAR.

Yer man Dale Johnson from ESPN explains this: it's not inconsistency from VAR at all, it's inconsistency from refs and linesmen on pitch, because these are "subjective" offsides.

VAR's job is get correct calls on things it considers "objective" like offside when a player is absolutely certainly active in the play, and to correct significant mistakes/missed calls/mistaken identity calls.

In the Barnes case, the linesman deemed him to be interfering with the keeper and flagged, a "subjective" offside (i.e. one where it could be argued that the player, while offside, is not active). VAR does not deem this to be a bad call, just a ref's judgement call.

In the Watkins case, neither the linesman nor the ref deemed him to be interfering with the keeper on pitch. Again, VAR does not deem this to be a bad call, just a ref's judgement call.

Hence, the inconsistency comes from on-pitch refs, and this is the lighter touch VAR that they are using this season. More decisions in the hands of the ref on pitch, not re-reffing by television.

At least all that 🔼 🔼 🔼 up there is the supposed official interpretation.

My own opinion is that players whose job it is to obstruct the keeper at corners and who are in an offside position should always be called offside, and I do think Watkins should have been flagged on the pitch or called by the ref. The point of the sport isn't to wrestle the keeper out of the way while you're shooting.

On the other hand, Watkins is entirely not offside until Hause heads it toward goal, and at the point of contact De Gea has a clear sightline to the ball and has shoved Watkins out of the way. It's a very grey area in the laws IMHO.

Ultimately: the less use of VAR the better. The idea that every goal results in people fake celebrating, then looking to the big screen to get the ultimate ruling on whether it stands is absolutely sickening.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 08:38:24 am by lamonti »

Offline Dr Stu-Pid

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 757
  • ******
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12580 on: September 28, 2021, 11:22:43 am »
Yer man Dale Johnson from ESPN explains this:

*snip*

At least all that 🔼 🔼 🔼 up there is the supposed official interpretation.

Thanks for that, was waiting to see what he thought.  Ultimately that is one of my frustrations with VAR.  If you are going to have an off-field review system then the most important thing is for it to be consistently applied, and so it seems silly for two almost identical situations to have different outcomes in different games.  Yes some decisions are subjective, but we also must remember that sometimes the on-field referees do not have all of the information and may have a very different opinion if they were to see the video.  Define what is offside and when a player is interfering and then make sure those interpretations are applied consistently, and if that means over-ruling the on-field referees then so be it.  Or of course just remove that element from VAR's remit entirely and let all on-field decisions stand.  I don't think that these middle ground grey areas are the answer.

As to these particular offside decisions, it is clearly now being used as a tactic by clubs and so the rules need to adapt.  I've always felt that offside should have a 'memory' component so that you can't benefit from being in an offside position in the lead up to a goal even if you are technically onside when you receive the ball.  An example would be a player standing 5 yards offside in the middle of the penalty area and another player (in an onside position) being passed to running into the penalty area who then squares it to the offside player who is then technically onside.  That player gained a massive advantage from being in an offside position and so should not be able to benefit IMO.  The same would apply for the situations above.  If you are interfering with the goalkeeper while in an offside position then you are offside, even if you are not in the line of sight when the ball is headed towards goal.

Final thought.  I don't personally buy that the Watkins decision was a subjective one.  He is literally touching the keeper when the ball is headed towards goal, so how is it subjective as to whether he is impacting the goalkeepers ability to play the ball?   The Barnes one was much more subjective because he had moved away before the header and so there was clear daylight between him and the keeper.

Offline BoRed

  • BoRing
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,808
  • BoRac
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12581 on: September 28, 2021, 02:51:32 pm »
Final thought.  I don't personally buy that the Watkins decision was a subjective one.  He is literally touching the keeper when the ball is headed towards goal, so how is it subjective as to whether he is impacting the goalkeepers ability to play the ball?

"Not every contact is a foul" perhaps?

Though having seen your screenshot above, I do now agree that it should have been disallowed, I think he is clearly impeding the keeper. But it's still difficult to define "impeding" objectively.

Offline Dr Stu-Pid

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 757
  • ******
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12582 on: September 28, 2021, 03:06:31 pm »
"Not every contact is a foul" perhaps?

But you don't have to commit a foul to considered to be offside, you just have to have an impact on either line of sight or a player's ability to play the ball.

interfering with an opponent by:
- preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
- making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball

Now unfortunately the last line of the above is vague enough that it can be taken any way that PGMOL want to interpret it that particular week to justify the on-field decision.  But in my view if you are touching the goal keeper when you are in an offside position then you are impacting the game enough to be given offside.

The biggest indicator that something is wrong is the mere fact that so many teams seem to be trying to utilize this loophole every week by having a player stand on top of the keeper and then move at the last minute.  They wouldn't be telling the strikers to do it if they didn't think that it gained them an advantage, and gaining an advantage by being in an offside position is exactly what the offside law is there to prevent.

Offline BoRed

  • BoRing
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,808
  • BoRac
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12583 on: September 28, 2021, 03:23:44 pm »
But you don't have to commit a foul to considered to be offside, you just have to have an impact on either line of sight or a player's ability to play the ball.

interfering with an opponent by:
- preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
- making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball

Now unfortunately the last line of the above is vague enough that it can be taken any way that PGMOL want to interpret it that particular week to justify the on-field decision.  But in my view if you are touching the goal keeper when you are in an offside position then you are impacting the game enough to be given offside.

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant, you can't make that objective. But I totally agree with you, it shouldn't be the case. It also shouldn't be left to the on-field referees, because the ref can't judge if the player is offside, and the linesman (as shown in this case) can't judge if the player is impacting someone else's ability to play the ball.

I disagree with this, though:

I've always felt that offside should have a 'memory' component so that you can't benefit from being in an offside position in the lead up to a goal even if you are technically onside when you receive the ball. An example would be a player standing 5 yards offside in the middle of the penalty area and another player (in an onside position) being passed to running into the penalty area who then squares it to the offside player who is then technically onside.  That player gained a massive advantage from being in an offside position and so should not be able to benefit IMO.

If the other player was onside and ran past the offside player before passing him the ball, than a defender could have done the same. It obviously makes it more difficult to defend, but the defenders' job is to keep an eye on the attackers. As long as the rule is clear (and in this case objective), then that's fine. Remember Brazil v Netherlands in 1994?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/haguOUZTvkk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/haguOUZTvkk</a>

The only reason Brazil "gained an advantage" for those first two goals is because the Dutch defence fell asleep. I think it would be a massive step back if we started disallowing such goals again.

Offline Dr Stu-Pid

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 757
  • ******
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12584 on: September 28, 2021, 05:03:25 pm »
The only reason Brazil "gained an advantage" for those first two goals is because the Dutch defence fell asleep. I think it would be a massive step back if we started disallowing such goals again.

To be fair the 2nd goal would still be onside with my tweak to the rules...   ;)

But I do understand your point, I just feel that at the moment in certain circumstances the rule is too far in the attackers' favour.  Finding a middle ground would be tricky and maybe there is no better way, but some scenarios just seem to have gone too far. 

A great example was a goal that we had disallowed against Arsenal in the 2017- 18 season, which technically should have been allowed.  Mane was standing miles offside and the ball was played in his direction but fell to Firmino who hit the bar with a shot and then Mane scored the rebound, but by the point he shot Firmino was just in front of Mane and so the goal should have stood.  It just seemed wrong that Mane could have scored after only being in so much space because he was offside originally and the ball to Firmino ended up only a couple of yards away from Mane.

We've also seen it a few times when we defend a high line from a free kick and several opposition players go too early but the ball goes to an onside player who can then head it across to one of those 'offside' players to score (or via a rebound).  They are in front of our defenders because they made their run too early, but they are able to ultimately use that to their advantage.

But then again I think I only hate these examples so much because VAR is happy to give someone offside because their forearm is offside by a few centimetres because that is deemed to be having an advantage whereas standing 5 yards offside isn't.  I'm just old and cranky I guess.

Online 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,755
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12585 on: September 28, 2021, 05:36:59 pm »
De Gea wasn't getting to that ball even if no Villa player was near him imho. Which is why the goal was given.
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline Knight

  • No one understands football like me.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,782
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12586 on: September 28, 2021, 09:41:23 pm »
VAR is so bad. We get the goal but it’s so bad.

Online tubby

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,138
  • Destroyed Cowboy
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12587 on: September 28, 2021, 09:41:51 pm »
That took an age.
Sit down, shock is better taken with bent knees.

Offline Dave McCoy

  • "Don't you know who I am?!"
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,460
  • 11,053ft up
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12588 on: September 30, 2021, 12:10:32 am »
Wow, just saw the Wolfsburg/Sevilla red card/penalty call.  Mike Riley must be creaming his pants with that.   With each PGMOL mess up he can just point to that as an example of there's always worse.  One of the worst calls in the last 5 years there maybe?  Yeesshhh.....

Online Elzar

  • train station gate frustration - delia smith fan club founder ('ave it!)
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,070
  • Bam!
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12589 on: September 30, 2021, 08:42:37 am »
The champions league has had some bad decisions so far.

The Atletico penalty was clearly off the arm off Lemar first, then that penalty in the Wolfsburg game was shocking.
We already have shit in the country, and the game of Liverpool fills life with joy. Thanks

Online Barneylfc∗

  • Cross-dressing man-bag wielding golfer. Wannabe Mod. Coprophiliac. Would like to buy an airline seat if he could. Known 'grass'. Wants to go home to He-Man
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,610
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12590 on: September 30, 2021, 01:33:14 pm »
That Wolfsburg decision is horrendous. Worse than the one from West Ham v Chelsea last season.
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline Tonyh8su

  • Tonyign0r35u
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,527
  • YNWA
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12591 on: September 30, 2021, 01:50:51 pm »
That Wolfsburg decision is horrendous. Worse than the one from West Ham v Chelsea last season.

Mental that VAR is so bad that I cant even remember which ones you're talking about.

Online Barneylfc∗

  • Cross-dressing man-bag wielding golfer. Wannabe Mod. Coprophiliac. Would like to buy an airline seat if he could. Known 'grass'. Wants to go home to He-Man
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,610
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12592 on: September 30, 2021, 02:11:32 pm »
Mental that VAR is so bad that I cant even remember which ones you're talking about.

2 minutes in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubhuF2LnpN4
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Online swoopy

  • not a mod. At all. Like ever. And certainly not on the ticket board that's for sure. Not for want of trying. Can't spell Irmingham either.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,570
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12593 on: September 30, 2021, 03:10:34 pm »
2 minutes in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubhuF2LnpN4

Dreadful that one. Remember it at the time live just in disbelief it could be given.

Offline Kekule

  • Not fussy.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,224
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12594 on: October 16, 2021, 03:09:49 pm »
My next door neighbour has just jacked in refereeing. He was doing Non-League stuff, he’s also an MMA fighter, is extremely fit, is incredibly disciplined with his eating and doesn’t drink.  He seems to have been well thought of by those he refereed and by his colleagues but basically just kept getting knocked back for any sort of progression.

I imagine seeing Jon Moss wadding around on a Premier League pitch, sweating and trying but failing to catch his breath has probably been a source of incredible frustration for him, and I can fully understand why he’s sacked it off.

Online 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,755
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12595 on: October 16, 2021, 03:22:56 pm »
My next door neighbour has just jacked in refereeing. He was doing Non-League stuff, he’s also an MMA fighter, is extremely fit, is incredibly disciplined with his eating and doesn’t drink.  He seems to have been well thought of by those he refereed and by his colleagues but basically just kept getting knocked back for any sort of progression.

I imagine seeing Jon Moss wadding around on a Premier League pitch, sweating and trying but failing to catch his breath has probably been a source of incredible frustration for him, and I can fully understand why he’s sacked it off.

He's not from Greater Manchester is he...
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline Clayton Bigsby

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,467
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12596 on: October 17, 2021, 10:15:20 am »
Not that it would have mattered and I'm certainly not complaining but I'm watching highlights again and I'm struggling to see how the Firmino second goal wasn't disallowed.

Can anyone explain to me in layman's terms please

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

  • Not so pleasant non-upholstered footer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,676
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12597 on: October 17, 2021, 10:17:55 am »
Not that it would have mattered and I'm certainly not complaining but I'm watching highlights again and I'm struggling to see how the Firmino second goal wasn't disallowed.

Can anyone explain to me in layman's terms please

Salah isn't deemed to have interfered when Cathcart tries to cut the ball out (as he doesn't challenge for it), which then starts a new phase of play. It's a bull shit rule that I think everybody in football wants to be changed.
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

Online Hazell

  • Ultimate Movie Night Draft Winner 2017. King - or Queen - of Mystery. Hyzenthlay. The 5th Benitle's sex conch.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,504
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12598 on: October 17, 2021, 10:24:40 am »
Not that it would have mattered and I'm certainly not complaining but I'm watching highlights again and I'm struggling to see how the Firmino second goal wasn't disallowed.

Can anyone explain to me in layman's terms please

"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered
to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent."

My understanding is that the defender 'deliberately played the ball' and therefore Salah wasn't flagged for offside. I know Firmino got the goal but I think even if Salah scored, it still would have stood.

Stupid rule though.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline Clayton Bigsby

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,467
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: VAR! Video Assistant Referee - It's not for everyone / Bit shit innit?
« Reply #12599 on: October 17, 2021, 10:26:39 am »
Thank you for the explanations guys.