Topic: The Klopp Template

[Dim Glas]

He definitely thought James Pearce wrote the article Mel Reddy did.

His press officer best be looking for a new job if that’s the case 

[Dave McCoy]

I don't even know what you're talking about now but you're hurting my brain. Carry on though

Yeah, saying Mighty Red hasn’t done an interview in forever is applicable to what exactly? Carry on though bro 👍

[WhereAngelsPlay]

That's what you've taken from my post? Blimey. Yeah, it's not true by the way.

[LiamG]

Great video on why our press isn’t working

https://youtu.be/fyBQAOmd4Aw

Shows our attacking stats aren’t that different to last season

Has anyone actually watched this? or you gonna carry on talking about journalists in a  completely different thread?

[Dave McCoy]

Has anyone actually watched this? or you gonna carry on talking about journalists in a  completely different thread?

Yes. It’s a lot of the same stats that has been posted around here but just presented better.

[redmark]

Has anyone actually watched this? or you gonna carry on talking about journalists in a  completely different thread?

Earlier seasons of the two 'stat wheels' shown for 21/22 and 22/23 would have been useful.

There was an interesting contrast towards the end - in terms of the number of 'direct attacks allowed', 21/22 was already worse than previous seasons (but we didn't concede many goals from it - we certainly had lots of discussion on here about 'looking too open', being cut through, conceding chances) and not so different to this season. But our attacking press outcomes have dropped dramatically. So this shows one obvious thing - our press is declining. But did it start - defensively, at least - last season? And/or, as I wondered in this (or another) thread yesterday, have teams across the PL been working on solutions to beating the press with simpler vertical direct play, often starting with (eyeball test) more athletic, direct players in central midfield beating the initial press before releasing the pass? Not so much 'working us out', but reacting to us, and City, and a growing number of teams who press, or try to do so. Have we yet recognised and reacted to that adjustment from opponents, or are we still trying to solve older problems?

[clinical]

He's a 3 x premier League winner in my eyes now.

[Machae]

Would like to see a bit more ruthlessness in Klopps tactics. Change things when it's clear it's not working, sub players early rather than letting the game go beyond you and most likely beyond the point of no return.

Like Rafa, Klopp likes to bring on players at certain times, but today was a perfect opportunity to make changed at half time. I didn't expect to lose 5-2, but sensed we would go on to lose

[tubby]

We're so open, all the time.  Doesn't matter what the score is, doesn't matter if it's against 10 men Newcastle or Real Madrid, we always give up chances.

[elkun]

our problem seems to me to be just obvious. Klopp is trying to play with the same system that we have been playing for the past year. only Klopp makes 1 mistake. the players of today are no longer the players of the past. we are so open defensively that it is really unbelievable. I think it's time to temporarily adjust our system to the current level of the players we have now because it's obvious they can't take it anymore.

we were a team that put pressure up front. that doesn't happen anymore. We had press machine up front in Mane Firmino and Salah. mane is gone, firmino is done and salah is not like before.

in midfield we had hard workers and also a press machine. players have grown old, get injured a lot and are not as fit as before

in the back we had a lot of speed which allowed us to play with a high line. that speed is now gone, which makes us so vulnerable.

Change the system

[Dave McCoy]

The main issue in the Template is the recruitment and coaching staff aren't in sync anymore. The players we're recruiting aren't like for like replacements so either the template needs to change or the recruitment needs to change.

[MonsLibpool]

Complete overhaul required.

[amir87]

Struggle to think of a system that fixes this mess instantly.

The personnel is the biggest problem. Get that right, and next season could be a return to previous glory. Get it wrong, or do little to change it, and we’re looking at this season being the norm.

[FlashGordon]

We're so open, all the time.  Doesn't matter what the score is, doesn't matter if it's against 10 men Newcastle or Real Madrid, we always give up chances.

Because our midfielders can't run anymore unfortunately.

[Machae]

our problem seems to me to be just obvious. Klopp is trying to play with the same system that we have been playing for the past year. only Klopp makes 1 mistake. the players of today are no longer the players of the past. we are so open defensively that it is really unbelievable. I think it's time to temporarily adjust our system to the current level of the players we have now because it's obvious they can't take it anymore.

we were a team that put pressure up front. that doesn't happen anymore. We had press machine up front in Mane Firmino and Salah. mane is gone, firmino is done and salah is not like before.

in midfield we had hard workers and also a press machine. players have grown old, get injured a lot and are not as fit as before

in the back we had a lot of speed which allowed us to play with a high line. that speed is now gone, which makes us so vulnerable.

Change the system

We don't play the same way though, or haven't done this season.  Liverpool used to outrun and outpress most, if not all the teams a few season back. But this season, aren't we towards the lowest teams for this. So tactics have changed

[RK7]

Because our midfielders can't run anymore unfortunately.

That wasn't the issue tonight. Midfield did ok.

[fallenhd]

We're in need of a complete overhaul. We need at least 3 midfielders and at least 2 CBs. Problem is we most likely don't have the finances to do that. I think we need to forget about Bellingham unfortunately since it's seems he's our primary target. He's going to take half of our budget and that's if we even get him. That's where our recruitment use to be elite. We had all the right people in all the right places and a proven committed process. No we've abandoned that for whatever we have now and are going into our most important transfer window in a very long time.

[Wool]

That wasn't the issue tonight. Midfield did ok.

We couldn’t get anywhere near the ball in the second half. Their fans were ole’ing us from about 60 mins it was that bad.

[DelTrotter]

That wasn't the issue tonight. Midfield did ok.

 

[BCCC]

There's only two ways to look at it. You either have the players to play the way you want or you adapt the way you want to the players you've got.

[FlashGordon]

That wasn't the issue tonight. Midfield did ok.

For the first half yeah when they could run. Second half was a whole different story though.

[elkun]

We don't play the same way though, or haven't done this season.  Liverpool used to outrun and outpress most, if not all the teams a few season back. But this season, aren't we towards the lowest teams for this. So tactics have changed

that's what i mean too. we don't play the same anymore because the old players aren't as good as they used to be and the new players can't play the current system.

a good example is that Nunez and Gakpo will never put as much pressure in their lives as Mane and Firmino.

You bought those players for a reason and they don't seem to have the same qualities. you can do two things. or try the same thing over and over again or try something new and Klopp has chosen to play with the same system but with the wrong players.

[fallenhd]

That wasn't the issue tonight. Midfield did ok.

Our MF absolutely was one of main problems. Not good enough on the ball and defensively. Offensively we kept giving the ball away while offering little supply to our attackers. Klopp said it himself "I couldn't remember one pass to Darwin behind the lines in the second half."

[killer-heels]

It’s ok, the centre backs are sorted for another season. As are the full backs. Sorted.

[amir87]

That wasn't the issue tonight. Midfield did ok.

Sorry to ruin your night but we lost 5-2. You obviously turned the TV off at half time.

[HeartAndSoul]

That wasn't the issue tonight. Midfield did ok.

You’re joking right?

Our midfield got out powered like expected

[fallenhd]

that's what i mean too. we don't play the same anymore because the old players aren't as good as they used to be and the new players can't play the current system.

a good example is that Nunez and Gakpo will never put as much pressure in their lives as Mane and Firmino.

You bought those players for a reason and they don't seem to have the same qualities. you can do two things. or try the same thing over and over again or try something new and Klopp has chosen to play with the same system but with the wrong players.

The thing is for the first 15 minutes or so, we were pressing well. Madrid couldn't cope, we were on top of the game and scored twice. Modric etc. barely had a touch. For whatever reason and it's something that is becoming common. We decided to stop pressing and sit back at 2-0 and invited pressure. All of sudden Madrid started to build momentum and dominate on the ball.

[FlashGordon]

Bajcetic Jones Kieta until Thiago is back for me.

[FlashGordon]

The thing is for the first 15 minutes or so, we were pressing well. Madrid couldn't cope, we were on top of the game and scored twice. Modric etc. barely had a touch. For whatever reason and it's something that is becoming common. We decided to stop pressing and sit back at 2-0 and invited pressure. All of sudden Madrid started to build momentum and dominate on the ball.

Because our midfield cannot keep that up for large parts of the game anymore unfortunately.

[Machae]

that's what i mean too. we don't play the same anymore because the old players aren't as good as they used to be and the new players can't play the current system.

a good example is that Nunez and Gakpo will never put as much pressure in their lives as Mane and Firmino.

You bought those players for a reason and they don't seem to have the same qualities. you can do two things. or try the same thing over and over again or try something new and Klopp has chosen to play with the same system but with the wrong players.

Righto, but I think Klopp has evolved the way we play, maybe it has something to do with Klopps personnel and with that a different style of playing. It might be intentional, being more possessive and patient rather than gung ho, heavy metal.

[elkun]

The thing is for the first 15 minutes or so, we were pressing well. Madrid couldn't cope, we were on top of the game and scored twice. Modric etc. barely had a touch. For whatever reason and it's something that is becoming common. We decided to stop pressing and sit back at 2-0 and invited pressure. All of sudden Madrid started to build momentum and dominate on the ball.

Maybe this is just the current level of our players? that they can only put pressure on for 15 minutes and that they don't have the energy and quality to last an entire match?

[jepovic]

our problem seems to me to be just obvious. Klopp is trying to play with the same system that we have been playing for the past year. only Klopp makes 1 mistake. the players of today are no longer the players of the past. we are so open defensively that it is really unbelievable. I think it's time to temporarily adjust our system to the current level of the players we have now because it's obvious they can't take it anymore.

we were a team that put pressure up front. that doesn't happen anymore. We had press machine up front in Mane Firmino and Salah. mane is gone, firmino is done and salah is not like before.

in midfield we had hard workers and also a press machine. players have grown old, get injured a lot and are not as fit as before

in the back we had a lot of speed which allowed us to play with a high line. that speed is now gone, which makes us so vulnerable.

Change the system

Well put. I think our tactics are naive. Much worse and cheaper teams than Real have punished us for this.
Hendersons role in particular is strange.

In general, we are creating chances at an ok rate, despite missing a lot of attacking players. But we defend really poorly, although we have everyone available

[fallenhd]

Because our midfield cannot keep that up for large parts of the game anymore unfortunately.

Yea I get you but I meant the entire team. The entire team literally sat back almost as if instructed to do so. The thing is we don't need to do the a 100m sprint press for 90 minutes but literally push up as a team condense the space, block the passing lanes and force them long where we have a height advantage with Van Dyjk, Fabinho, Gomez etc. No one needs to do that Henderson press where he abandons his position and runs at the the oppo GK.

[FlashGordon]

Yea I get you but I meant the entire team. The entire team literally sat back almost as if instructed to do so. The thing is we don't need to do the a 100m sprint press for 90 minutes but literally push up as a team condense the space, block the passing lanes and force them long where we have a height advantage with Van Dyjk, Fabinho, Gomez etc. No one needs to do that Henderson press where he abandons his position and runs at the the oppo GK.

Because to push up as a team the midfield needs to be able to cover the space left by the front three when we go hunting. They can't do that anymore so there's big gaps appearing and opposition midfielders can turn and start to play. As a result of this happening a few times it's only natural to go back in to your shell or else you'll be played through very easily.

[Antoine Lavoisier]

If you were a manager, what would you do to stop Liverpool being at their most effective?

If you can answer that question, without much difficulty, then I'm afraid you may have also found the problem with the way we go about things.

I hate to say it, but it was only a matter of time before opposition teams figured us out. 

We need a plan B. We need a way to control games in a professional manner that doesnt involve trying to work a way to score a goal at every opportunity.

[SinceSixtyFive]

Struggle to think of a system that fixes this mess instantly.

The personnel is the biggest problem. Get that right, and next season could be a return to previous glory. Get it wrong, or do little to change it, and we’re looking at this season being the norm.

Not sure if you're talking about players or behind the scenes personnel here but, assuming its players, I'm afraid we're in some very deep self-inflicted doodoo indeed.

Meaning with the value of hindsight, we gave out some very generous contracts to players who now aren't exactly performing up to expectations.

Its a bit like the old Irish joke - "Excuse me Patrick, could you tell me the best way to get to Dublin?". "Well now Sur... I certainly wouldn't be starting from here".

[Egyptian36]

Talking about tactics or pressing is a waste of time if your midfield is struggling and not balanced. Nothing will work well unless you get the midfield right.

[HeartAndSoul]

Talking about tactics or pressing is a waste of time if your midfield is struggling and not balanced. Nothing will work well unless you get the midfield right.

And that’s the problem. Everyone could see we needed at least one midfielder plus one forward in January but the tight arse c*nts only had money available for one of the two.

[JackWard33]

Because to push up as a team the midfield needs to be able to cover the space left by the front three when we go hunting. They can't do that anymore so there's big gaps appearing and opposition midfielders can turn and start to play.

Exactly this - we can do it for 20 minutes or so and then that’s it

What’s alarming is despite this being true for 7 months now we haven’t changed anything
Setting us up like it’s 2019 is just fucking mental at this point

[MonsLibpool]

And that’s the problem. Everyone could see we needed at least one midfielder plus one forward in January August but the tight arse c*nts only had money available for one of the two.