Topic: The Klopp Template

[PhaseOfPlay]

I remember the 1-0 at Anfield vs Brighton last season. Second home game of the year and we were outplayed in the second half. An Allison worldie save is all that stopped us from dropping two points. Teething problems at the start of the year are entirely normal - as long as we keep churning out results.

You're remembering that wrong, mate. Second half we had 73% possession, 13 shots, 3 on target to their 1 shot on target out of 5.

We dominated that game with Gini in defensive mid. We were wasteful in attack, but that game was all us.

[bornandbRED]

You're remembering that wrong, mate. Second half we had 73% possession, 13 shots, 3 on target to their 1 shot on target out of 5.

We dominated that game with Gini in defensive mid. We were wasteful in attack, but that game was all us.

Those stats are surprising, as I vividly remember leaving Anfield mildly concerned that Brighton had periods in the second half where they were able to cause us real discomfort, where we looked unable to control the game. Not too dissimilar to what we saw against Norwich in parts last week.

[El Lobo]

Those stats are surprising, as I vividly remember leaving Anfield mildly concerned that Brighton had periods in the second half where they were able to cause us real discomfort, where we looked unable to control the game. Not too dissimilar to what we saw against Norwich in parts last week.

They did

And there were plenty of games early last season where we really didn’t play particularly well and scrapped through a little bit. There was a fair amount of bed wetting right up to and including the derby, scrapped a win against Huddersfield, drew at Arsenal, not great in beating Fulham.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Those stats are surprising, as I vividly remember leaving Anfield mildly concerned that Brighton had periods in the second half where they were able to cause us real discomfort, where we looked unable to control the game. Not too dissimilar to what we saw against Norwich in parts last week.

That can happen in any game. If it didn't, possession would be 99% and shots would be at 75% or better conversion rate

The only time to panic is when teams are getting shots off in dangerous areas. Otherwise, the opponents building an attack is just part of the ebb and flow of the game.

Edit - looked back at it - their only shot on target was in the 88th minute. In the second half, we had 4 shots on target. That game was a combination of our inability to turn dominance into goals, and their keeper doing a bang up job when called on. It certainly wasn't a desperate, scrappy game that we barely escaped with the points from after an unjust, last-minute blag

[aw1991]

They did

And there were plenty of games early last season where we really didn’t play particularly well and scrapped through a little bit. There was a fair amount of bed wetting right up to and including the derby, scrapped a win against Huddersfield, drew at Arsenal, not great in beating Fulham.

I think it's quite a hallmark of Klopp's Liverpool? Start the season a bit clunky but get results and shift up a gear at some point.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I think it's quite a hallmark of Klopp's Liverpool? Start the season a bit clunky but get results and shift up a gear at some point.

His first full season we had a great first half of the season with great performances but we crashed in burned after the winter period. We had an indifferent start the year after with some inconsistent results [losses to Spurs,City, draws against Palace,Newcastle] and we picked it up after that Tottenham debacle.

Last season we all know how that went.


Klopp has made various adjustments since he's been here

[PaulF]

Do we have the xg for the Brighton game to compare to Norwich.? Im sure the weaker teams always seem to fare better against stronger teams early in the season and revert to mean ass the season goes on. It's more often than not a team seems to do well without necessarily getting the result. More than xg would tell us, but xg should be an even better indicator of shots on target.

What's the likely cause of our defence looking so less assured? Is it perception? Probably not if we are already identifying lack of pressure on the ball. In which case is the defence near to where it finished last season , but further up the field aren't quite doing their job. Are these tweaks that klopp would have expected, or is it a worry?
Despite his words , I think klopp is expecting var to work in favour of giving less benefit of the doubt to attackers and has tweaked us to take advantage. He probably can't come out and say that, but if the conversation has started then surely it puts pressure in the officials to review the decisions closely.

[El Lobo]

1.7 - 0.6 for the Brighton game

1.6 - 0.9 for the Norwich game

[PaulF]

1.7 - 0.6 for the Brighton game

1.6 - 0.9 for the Norwich game

Thanks. That seems to back up what people are seeing in the game. We were the better side, but Norwich a bit scarier

[HardworkDedication]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ruud-gullit-reveals-rest-europe-18953651

Does he really think it's just a case of having 3 fast forwards? No insight whatsoever.

[El Lobo]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ruud-gullit-reveals-rest-europe-18953651

Does he really think it's just a case of having 3 fast forwards? No insight whatsoever.

I expect great things of United with Rashford, Martial and James

[joe ®]

Good read from Sam McGuire about what we've changed this season. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-high-line-jurgen-klopp-16781598

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Good read from Sam McGuire about what we've changed this season. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-high-line-jurgen-klopp-16781598

The Liverpool Echo site is such dogshit. The article cuts off halfway through.

[sms1986]

I've copied and pasted the article. For the email subscription box, just put in a fake email address -

In the opening games of this new season, Liverpool's defensive unit has not looked quite as assured. At times during the 2018/19 campaign, the Reds looked impenatrable. If the opposition did manage to get beyond Virgil van Dijk and whoever was partnering him, then Alisson Becker repelled most things.

However, since this new season began, Jurgen Klopp’s side have looked far from convincing. Raheem Sterling tapped home from close range in the Community Shield. Teemu Pukki scored a consolation for Norwich City, but had Marco Stiepermann had his shooting boots at Anfield, the scoreline might not have been as comfortable for the home crowd. Chelsea netted twice in the Super Cup.

The Reds are four games into 2019/20 and are yet to keep a clean sheet. The new, higher defensive line seems to be the talking point. Van Dijk is now basically stationed on the half-way line and though the pitch is a lot more condensed, with less space to press offensively, there are seemingly having a few teething issues as they acclimatise to the change.

This subtle change to the starting position of the backline is founded in theory, however.

Granted, the Liverpool defence did not need fixing. Meddling with it is a risk, given it was the best in the Premier League last season. But teams have to reinvent themselves in order to stay at the top and that is exactly what the Reds are in the process of doing. By adding another string to their bow, the European champions are making themselves even more dangerous as an attacking unit.

The high defensive line is the foundation for this next evolution. It could be the most exciting version of this side yet.



The Reds are still starting with a 4-3-3 shape, a system Klopp has been married to for the most part since making the move to Merseyside. The German tactician has used different variations of it throughout his spell at Anfield.

During the 2016/17 season, he used Adam Lallana (represented by the no.7 below) as a box-to-box midfielder to the surprise of many. He even tasked Emre Can (no.8 on the graphic) with pushing on into the wide left role for a period in an attempt to occupy that space, allowing Philippe Coutinho to drift into the number 10 position; James Milner (no.3 on the graphic) would them up as a hybrid left-back-cum-left-midfielder.



Liverpool lacked natural width down the left during that season while Sadio Mane was enjoying himself on the right. However, concentration should not fall upon the playing profiles; instead, focus is on what areas of the pitch are being occupied.

It’s not too dissimilar to the next evolution of Klopp’s tactics, the ones used by the Reds for two seasons between 2017 and 2019.



Due to the different profiles of players at his disposal, Klopp and his coaching staff were able to make a few adjustments to who occupied which particular zone. Instead of having the left sided centre-midfielder pushing out into the left-wing area, it was the job of the left-back. Likewise on the right-hand side, with Trent Alexander-Arnold almost acting as a winger at times.

The no.6 in the graphic was either Jordan Henderson or Fabinho. The no.8 tended to be Wijnaldum, tasked with being the middle man, while the no.7 was a mix of Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Naby Keita and Adam Lallana.

******

Now, the the new system. The same general principles apply to the previous two iterations. There is width in the team in an attempt to stretch the play centrally, and there are at least four players tasked with getting into the penalty area to increase the goalscoring options.



The difference comes from the wide forwards staying wide, while the support for the striker is coming from the two box-to-box midfielders. Mohamed Salah and Mane had previously been encouraged to cut inside as often as possible but so far this season, in the limited minutes they’ve featured in, they’ve been hugging the touchline a lot more than usual.

This is where the high line comes into play. With Klopp now placing extra emphasis on the two central midfielders to get forward, as evidenced in the screenshot below, Fabinho has been left alone in the centre of the pitch. To aid the Brazilian, the centre-backs have been tasked with stepping up, so the higher defensive line is needed, ensuring they do not have as much ground to cover, while Roberto Firmino is allowed to drop a little deeper from time to time.



Because of how the centre-back pairing are operating, the full-backs haven’t been quite as adventurous either. However, this leads on to the next phase of the system change. With the opposition understanding their importance to the way Liverpool attack, it is likely there will be a plan in place to attempt to stop them.

Klopp has not shackled them, he’s simply changed their delivery point; see Alexander-Arnold’s pass for Divock Origi’s goal against Norwich City, with Liverpool's fourth, showing this new system in full flow.



Firstly, you’ll note that Wijnaldum and Henderson are ahead of Firmino and Origi. The Dutchman plays it to his skipper, who drives into the space ahead of him in a similar way to how Steven Gerrard used to power through midfield.



Note also how Origi and Firmino have switched positions. As the play progresses, Henderson passes to Salah before continuing with his run into the space behind the Norwich left-back. The Egyptian then carries the ball forward, drawing Jamal Lewis and Todd Cantwell towards him, before he returns the ball to Henderson, playing as a right-winger at this stage. The Liverpool captain holds onto the ball, allowing Salah to get into the area along with Firmino, positioned towards the back post, and Wijnaldum, occupying the centre-forward role.

Henderson rolls the ball back to Alexander-Arnold and, from this slightly withdrawn role, he arrows a cross into the box. Origi makes a late run from deep and he’s able to head home. But this goal only comes about because Firmino and Salah kept the width on either flank and both Wijnaldum and Henderson pushed on to support the attack.



While keeping Salah and Mane (or Origi, when he replaces one of them) wide is a strange decision, given how prolific they’ve been over the past two seasons when given the freedom to roam, it makes sense. At times, Salah is crowded out when he occupies those central areas. Teams know what he can do, and they have plans in place to stop it. But when he starts and stays really wide, he is often isolated against a single full-back.

Likewise on the opposite flank. Both Origi and Mane have looked to take on their opponents by going on the outside in recent matches. They have the beating of them, too. They are going past one player, and then they’re into the penalty area. It doesn't take anything away from them as a threat, if anything it eases their route to goal. Furthermore, Liverpool are not losing anything going forward due to the extra bodies from midfield.

It won’t be perfect to begin with, and it isn’t something the Reds will always persist with. However, having this option makes them even more unpredictable. Patience may be required while the players adjust to this new variation, but it could well be worthwhile if the opening few matches are any real indication.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

You absolute hero. Thanks.

[BrandoLFC]

It's basically Pep's ManC setup.  The outside forwards stay wide and you have two #8's that fill the space.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

It's basically Pep's ManC setup.  The outside forwards stay wide and you have two #8's that fill the space.

Aye, that was my thought as well. Presumably the forward on the opposite side to where the ball is, is instructed to attack the width of the goal and look to score from crosses, passes into that area? Sterling seems to nab a lot of goals at the far post like this.

Problem is that our #8s don't really have the ability on the ball that City's do (or in Keita and AOC's case have not been fit enough for long enough) and what does it mean for our full-backs who have shown that they do have the ability to provide assists? Does this approach blunt two of our best weapons?

[Knight]

Almost certainly wrong speculation based on almost certainly wrong analysis (I want to know what POP thinks of the idea that Salah is no longer our no 9). This is the system that makes us unbeatable when he gets to play AOC and Keita together. And before that's possible this is him preparing the rest of the team for it.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Almost certainly wrong speculation based on almost certainly wrong analysis (I want to know what POP thinks of the idea that Salah is no longer our no 9). This is the system that makes us unbeatable when he gets to play AOC and Keita together. And before that's possible this is him preparing the rest of the team for it.

Still interesting to consider how this approach could or could not work though.

TBF to the journo, he does say that this set-up may not be forever and could just be another string to the bow.

Be fun (though not for Fabinho) to see us go full Keegan and line up like:

                           Mane      Salah
       Robertson                Firmino                TAA
                          Keita                    AOC


Would be utterly mad and Keita, Firmino and Mane would probably get in each others' way, but would be one hell of a ride. Maybe we can do it in the league cup just once for the hell of it.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I stopped reading when he confused "shape" with "formation" (only kidding, it's a good article).

However, here are our average positions against Southampton:



Salah is clearly the #9. Firmino is clearly dropping off into the #10 position. Mane didn't spend all of his time on the wings. Ox played as an inside right.

How do we know these things?

Because the job of the #9 is to create attacking depth off the shoulder of the defence. Who does this job for us, Firmino or Salah? Consistently, it is Salah. What is the job of the #10? To play off and behind the #9, making the play and drawing defenders out. Who does this more than anyone? Firmino. What are the jobs of the #7 and #11? To maintain attacking width and send crosses into the box or to attack the fullbacks 1v1. Who does this job more, Mane or Robertson? It's Robertson. Ox or TAA? It's TAA. But TAA and Robertson are fullbacks, right? So when they perform the job of the 7 and 11 as well as their own #2 and #3 jobs, that makes them "wingbacks" more than fullbacks. 

We don't play with a proper #7 or #11. We play with one or two #6s, and two or three #8s, a #10, a #9, and a pair of wingbacks. We haven't changed much in the attack this season. We have definitely altered our defence. Our big problem, though, is the spaces being left in midfield. And those aren't formation or shape dependent. Those are most likely personnel dependent.

[Agent99]

Interesting article. An issue I see is with this line though:

Now, the the new system. The same general principles apply to the previous two iterations. There is width in the team in an attempt to stretch the play centrally, and there are at least four players tasked with getting into the penalty area to increase the goalscoring options.

We haven't really got a goalscoring midfielder as such. Henderson, Milner, Gini, AOC and Keita can score but aren't renowned for it. Shame we didn't get Fekir or a player like that in the summer but hopefully this is where Havertz comes in next season

[BrandoLFC]

That's the weird thing in that it doesn't seemingly fit the personnel at all except in very specific circumstances.  I can't see how Shaq would be of any use here as well.

[Sinyoro]

Most teams are now trying to copy Klopp’s original attacking blueprint. Perhaps we are tweaking our shape to counter that, e.g., TAA staying in a little bit. Robbo is still attacking, hence Milner and Gini spending more time slightly left to cover for him.

Arsenal will try to match us on Saturday but my view is that their left side will leave huge gaps for Salah and Hendo to exploit. If Niles tries to occupy Robbo, Sadio will have a field day too.
I just can’t see how their defensive play can stop us.

This season I can only see Spurs and City offering better resistance. As for the rest of the league, just can’t see how they will stop Liverpool- too smart, too quick and too strong.

Another 97+ points.

[redk84]

Haven't noticed any huge differences in the way we are attacking, but I do not have the sort of tactical eye as some of the rest of you (need this shit spoon-fed to me tho it is very interesting).

Have noticed towards the back end of last season our midfielders making more of an attempt to get into the box and thought this was a reaction to a month or two when our forwards were struggling to be as prolific as normal (i.e scoring just the 1 or 2 goals a game!)

I think the players we have are so in tune to any adjustments made on a game to game basis, they're exactly shaped the way Klopp wants them.
Everyone knows what to do, last season we had 3 new fellas in our midfield (Fab, Shaq, Keita) and this season we have Oxlade back...I think the way we play is more an indication of which midfield Klopp is going with as opposed to the defence/front 3 doing much different. He did say himself he will target our midfield as the main area for rotation

All our midfielders being able to do every role, each with an area they are better at.

[joe ®]

I stopped reading when he confused "shape" with "formation" (only kidding, it's a good article).

However, here are our average positions against Southampton:



Salah is clearly the #9. Firmino is clearly dropping off into the #10 position. Mane didn't spend all of his time on the wings. Ox played as an inside right.

How do we know these things?

Because the job of the #9 is to create attacking depth off the shoulder of the defence. Who does this job for us, Firmino or Salah? Consistently, it is Salah. What is the job of the #10? To play off and behind the #9, making the play and drawing defenders out. Who does this more than anyone? Firmino. What are the jobs of the #7 and #11? To maintain attacking width and send crosses into the box or to attack the fullbacks 1v1. Who does this job more, Mane or Robertson? It's Robertson. Ox or TAA? It's TAA. But TAA and Robertson are fullbacks, right? So when they perform the job of the 7 and 11 as well as their own #2 and #3 jobs, that makes them "wingbacks" more than fullbacks. 

We don't play with a proper #7 or #11. We play with one or two #6s, and two or three #8s, a #10, a #9, and a pair of wingbacks. We haven't changed much in the attack this season. We have definitely altered our defence. Our big problem, though, is the spaces being left in midfield. And those aren't formation or shape dependent. Those are most likely personnel dependent.

We are doing some things differently in attack though - there was an image of us in the Super Cup game posted a few days back which had our back four all across the halfway line when we had the ball, with the two box to box midfielders pushed way up, inside the wide players, with a big gap between them and Fabinho. That's definitely not something we saw last season.

[G Richards]

I see a slight variation starting to emerge from last season, and whether or not it becomes a default, or simply another way to tweak it on a case by case basis, remains to be seen.

It seems that either the fullbacks push up higher, or two midfielders do that, anchored by Fabinho. With two midfielders pushed up higher the fullbacks stay back a bit more - still offering width, still offering the possibility to bomb forward and join the attack, but generally holding their shape a bit deeper. Oh, and from a slightly deeper position they can still cross the ball into the box effectively.

If and when Ox and Keita ever get going together, and hopefully both will be at their best when it happens, I think this could be quite devastating. In the meantime it’s an emerging thing and something to watch as it develops.

It’s not quite fully there yet, and teams seem to be able to play through us a bit more easily as we are implementing this style, but it’s one to watch.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Klopp on rotation,squad players, and what is to come.


 with the League Cup and Champions League starting next month following the international break, Klopp will lean heavily on squad rotation throughout a busy period - and wants his players ready.

“Every year is the same and always in the same moment at the beginning of the season," said the Reds boss. “You want to have that, and if you don't have it then you have injuries from pre-season and that's the last thing you want.

“This moment we are pretty much together. We have long-term injuries with Clyney (Nathaniel Clyne) and Paul Glatzel.

“Still, I would say in this moment, Shaq didn't play enough, he is in a really good shape. Adam didn't play enough, in a really good shape. Dejan didn't play enough, in a really good shape.

“These are completely normal things. Some others might also say that they don't play enough.

“But we have to prepare for a season. At the start of the season without intensity, you try to get rhythm, you try to get stability at the beginning. It's not a moment where you change too many things.

“Then it will happen automatically and in the next (few) weeks you have to (change things) and everything will be fine then.

“It's not the hardest thing to do. The boys know what they have to do, they have to be in the best shape they can be. They have to use that to achieve their level, and the chances will come. That's how it is.”

Klopp gave Liverpool's players two days off following last Saturday's win over Southampton, which was the fourth game in 14 days of a hectic start to the campaign.

The Reds boss, though, found it more difficult to switch off.

“I was really happy for the boys to give them the two days off,” he said. “We didn't plan it, but it's easier when you win so we didn't tell them beforehand.

“We have to get as many points as possible and we cannot decide where we get them. We're Liverpool and every week we have to try to win, and that's what we will do.

“I don't think this result on Saturday will be the decisive result of the season.”

[PhaseOfPlay]

Two days off?

Fantastic stuff.

Figure out how to get our defensive shape compact again, and watch out, rest of the league.

[Knight]

We are doing some things differently in attack though - there was an image of us in the Super Cup game posted a few days back which had our back four all across the halfway line when we had the ball, with the two box to box midfielders pushed way up, inside the wide players, with a big gap between them and Fabinho. That's definitely not something we saw last season.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Two days off?

Fantastic stuff.

Figure out how to get our defensive shape compact again, and watch out, rest of the league.

He mentioned it again after the match that they used this week like pre-season as they had so much time to prepare which they don't usually have. We played 4 games in 14 days

[BobPaisley3]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Jurgen gives VVD the odd rest this season. Against most sides Joel and Joe should be more than enough.

[SerbianScouser]

If we want to avoid potential banana skins against low block teams it's incredibly important to field at least one out of Ox/Keita/Shaq in our AM.

A lot of dross teams will try to do exactly what Arsenal did until the first goal which is to focus on the width of the box and allow our fullbacks to cross all they want. It eventually worked but we need to figure out how to get through the middle because our front 3 were nullified until the breakthrough. What happens with our AM personnel yesterday is relentless bombardment of our fullbacks, they pass to them every single time like it's going out of fashion even though they're free not because we moved the ball well but because opponent would rather defend crosses than passes going into our front 3 through the middle.

I think we'd be playing a very dangerous game if we don't choose something different when it comes to our AMs against the low block teams , we need more from this position going forward against parked buses.

[Melbred]

Having had time to reflect over the lack of transfers and the message Klopp's been trying to tell us. Any side would find it hard to back up the kind of season we had last season. But without any signings, he's backed the lads in and pretty much challenged them to go again.

It's a lot of faith to show in the current group and there will almost be a siege mentality from the players to prove him right.

[Bjornar]

A lot of dross teams will try to do exactly what Arsenal did until the first goal which is to focus on the width of the box and allow our fullbacks to cross all they want. It eventually worked but we need to figure out how to get through the middle because our front 3 were nullified until the breakthrough. What happens with our AM personnel yesterday is relentless bombardment of our fullbacks, they pass to them every single time like it's going out of fashion even though they're free not because we moved the ball well but because opponent would rather defend crosses than passes going into our front 3 through the middle.

We created plenty of chances in this game, so if this is a blueprint of how our game against bus parkers will look like this season then it doesn't seem to me we will have a problem. Arsenal weren't even close to nullifying anyone or anything throughout the match IMO, even though they did OK defensively for a while by their standards at Anfield.

 

[SerbianScouser]

We created plenty of chances in this game, so if this is a blueprint of how our game against bus parkers will look like this season then it doesn't seem to me we will have a problem. Arsenal weren't even close to nullifying anyone or anything throughout the match IMO, even though they did OK defensively for a while by their standards at Anfield.

What did we create till the goal?

[El Lobo]

What did we create till the goal?

 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

What did we create till the goal?

we created a chance within 2 minutes of the match starting, a ball from Robertson which Firmino coldn't get on the end of, practically a tap in, a clear chance that would have given us the lead

[Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word]

Has VAR impacted on our defensive line? Offside being an iron-clad safety net now and all. Are we leaning more heavily on the protection that affords, and can be used as a tool to punish sloppy attackers?

[Byrneand]

Has VAR impacted on our defensive line? Offside being an iron-clad safety net now and all. Are we leaning more heavily on the protection that affords, and can be used as a tool to punish sloppy attackers?

Apologies in advance for butchering terminology.

On a similar note, does VAR impact the xG of an attacking situation? e.g. are you more likely to get a VAR decision go your way from a cross vs through ball due to the increased volatility of the situation?

To an extent does the xG suddenly become (original xG + xVAR) which favours more crosses.

I suppose essentially, what I'm asking is does anyone have a breakdown of VAR penalty and goal decision and the scenarios/pattern of play leading up to the decision?

From 40 years of watching footie on TV, my gut tells me that I've seen more penalties awarded (or at least replays that should have been penalties) from set pieces than open play on a percentage basis. This is based on no statistical evidence what so ever!

[Alan B'Stard]

Sorry if this has already been discussed.

What is this bullshit story that Sky are trying to twist and push about Klopp wanting to leave after his current contract expires?

Like all things good that happen to Liverpool, the media suddenly start to try and rock the boat to try and knock us back down again.

Can anyone elaborate?